Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action.
Regardless, with cops it's always going to be a hate/love relationship no matter the country. You'll love them when you need them while in danger but much of the time they're looking at ways to fine people, ways defined by the legislative body. I'll still take that over vigilantes.
I think this incident proves that isnt necessarily correct at all.
Then pretend that they didn't show up at all?
Also worth noting that the relatives of the shooter and the lack of social support and mental care contributed more to the primary outcome while the entire focus lies on the first responders. Prevention is a thing.
Sure, general healthcare and less exploitative policies in general would also help to reduce crimes like these.
Sadly, one party in the US is against gun control, against general healthcare and for more exploitative policies against anyone. That same party is also of the opinion that the police can do no wrong.
What a shitshow the police response was. The information that gets out also keeps changing. Smells like a cover up of extreme incompetence and cowardice.
The teacher who was basically blamed for everything because he had pried the backdoor open had already closed it when the gunman arrived. How did he enter then? They won't tell.
The 19 cops in the hallway were fully geared to storm the room. Why didn't they? Dispatch informed them about incoming 911 calls coming out of the room!
The shooter was eventually shot by a federal agent. Why was Uvalde police even there? The only thing they achieved is giving the shooter more time to kill. (E: That was a dumb thing to say. They contained the shooter. But evidence points at them being aware that there still were victims in the room.)
"...first priority is to move in and confront the attacker. A first responder unwiling to place the lives of the innocent above their own safety should consider another career field." -Active shooter response for school based law enforcement by the Texas comission on law enforcement.
It feels like we don't know everything yet. But I'm seeing a lot of speculations on my feed that they might be covering something extreme like killing a kid by accident; at this point that still seems far-fetched. It feels like we'd have to have evidence of that by now, most likely.
Happened a few hours ago. 5 dead including the shooter at a medical building in Oklahoma. Police are keeping a tight lid, so we don't really know a whole lot about motivations, other than it wasn't random.
The most recent LWT is on America's school shootings, and John Oliver walks through tons of points and counterpoints surrounding guns, cops, and school resource officers, so I think it's incredibly relevant to this thread:
Little update on the Uvalde cops, in the past few days they've been trying not to release their records of the shooting to the public. It's not entirely clear what they're trying to hide but reporting just broke that they didn't even try to open the door to the classroom in which the shooter was. The initial explanation after the shooting was first that the police locked him in the room to contain him, then that he locked himself in the room and they couldn't enter. If this reporting is true it wasn't even possible for the shooter to lock himself in the classroom
This ended up being a very interesting example of bias and hasty conclusions. The attack was near the most famous gay bar in Oslo, and the day before Pride. The police cancelled the parade, and was critizized for it as there were no indications of more attacks, many marched anyway.
Also, this was quickly judged as being an attack on the gay community, but the gay bar was not the first bar the shooter opened fire against, and there were no indications he was a gay-hater. On the other hand, the shooter was an active Muslim, but also had a long and consuming conflict with the Norwegian authorities. My feeling is that psychic instability was the main reason for this tragedy, eventually snapping into "I hate everything and everyone" mode. Pride might not have anything to do with it at all, but maybe he saw it as a chance to get more impact and attention, which certainly succeeded.
On June 30 2022 05:59 Slydie wrote: I am not sure why this hasn't been posted, but there was a serious mass shooting in Oslo last Friday. 21 injured, 2 killed.
This ended up being a very interesting example of bias and hasty conclusions. The attack was near the most famous gay bar in Oslo, and the day before Pride. The police cancelled the parade, and was critizized for it as there were no indications of more attacks, many marched anyway.
Also, this was quickly judged as being an attack on the gay community, but the gay bar was not the first bar the shooter opened fire against, and there were no indications he was a gay-hater. On the other hand, the shooter was an active Muslim, but also had a long and consuming conflict with the Norwegian authorities. My feeling is that psychic instability was the main reason for this tragedy, eventually snapping into "I hate everything and everyone" mode. Pride might not have anything to do with it at all, but maybe he saw it as a chance to get more impact and attention, which certainly succeeded.
A quick reply regarding that, both the first bar (Per på hjørnet) and the other 'not-gay-bar' (Herr Nilsen) were having a pride party event. Both those two pubs have a large amount of regulars who are gay/trans and the guests from the gaybar (London Pub) are usually mixing between those three bars. One of the guys who were killed were a well known figure within the LGBTQ community and were a regular at both Per på hjørnet and London pub. Finally, witness accounts have said that he were very focused on shooting the guests from those three pubs.
So you might have missed a few details of the story, if you think that what we know now doesn't indicate that the terror attack were being directed against the LGBTQ community. Also, the police said today that they think there were more people who had been involved with the terror attack.
I'm very interested to hear how he got his weapons. If I remember correctly, he had a "pistol and automatic rifle", one of which is very difficult to get a hold of, and the other which should be impossible to get a hold of.
On June 30 2022 16:37 Excludos wrote: I'm very interested to hear how he got his weapons. If I remember correctly, he had a "pistol and automatic rifle", one of which is very difficult to get a hold of, and the other which should be impossible to get a hold of.
Quite interested to find out that myself as well.
I remember when we had the most violent bank robbery in modern history (the Nokas robbery), with shooting in a very busy street by 13 professional bank robbers and which ended with a dead police officer. The farmer who were hiding the weapons after the robbery were threatened by the robbers with being killed, because he wanted to throw the weapons from the crime scene in the ocean. It was so hard to get guns (even though we have a lot of them), that the robbers would rather risk being caught with the evidence than having to try the impossible task to get new ones.
My guess is that this is one of the reasons the police thinks that there are more people involved.
On June 30 2022 16:37 Excludos wrote: I'm very interested to hear how he got his weapons. If I remember correctly, he had a "pistol and automatic rifle", one of which is very difficult to get a hold of, and the other which should be impossible to get a hold of.
There are automatic rifles around in Europe, police sometimes find them, it's mostly remnants from the Jugoslavian war. Of course all of them are illegal but as it's rather easy to smuggle in from that part of europe, doesn't suprise me that they are also in Norway.
TLDR If you are willing and criminal enough you can get an assault rifle, it's not impossible.
EPT
