|
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense.
Is this really how broken some people's view of the situation is? That people breaking the law, ignoring other people's rights, aren't the ones putting people in danger in the situation?
|
On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense.
You're trusting a criminal who breaks into your house to not kill you or your family? That's the difference between your country and ours, we'd rather defend ourselves and not take that risk. The fact that a criminal breaks into your house in the first place shows the criminal means you or your family harm.
|
the world would be a better place without guns, just like if there were nukes and whatnot. i'll feel comfortable some crackhead coming at me with a knife, more hesitant with a gun. however thats in a fairy tale world when compared to USA. to rid of guns in USA only harms law abiding citizens.
there is no need to introduce guns in south korea, there is no need to introduce marijuana in korea because that is determined by the culture, USA and Korea are two different cultures that requires two different approach. trying to shove "gun control" ideas to americans will not work, not because of ignorance but because its understood.
On December 15 2012 05:01 tomatriedes wrote:
I wonder if the founding fathers would have worded their 2nd amendment somewhat differently if they had foreseen some of the purposes guns are used in the US for today.
weapons, swords or guns, were used for crime throughout human history...its not like guns were never used against innocent pre 1800s.
|
On December 15 2012 04:49 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:46 ahappystar wrote:On December 15 2012 04:41 Timurid wrote:On December 15 2012 04:39 Piledriver wrote:The only fucking difference being that Alcohol kills the abuser. Guns kill innocents who are not even related to the person owning the gun. You are fucking dense. I don't give a shit if someone drinks himself to death. Its his stupidity. However, I don't want his stupidity affecting me or my family. How hard is it for you to understand? How about people who drink and drive and kill an innocent family on the road? It's illegal to drink and drive, not drink... simple The only use for guns is to harm or kill people, alcohol has other uses imo There's sport shooting, hunting. Your same logic should mean we should get rid of all swords, including those used to train for Fencing, a well-established sport, because swords are intended to kill people. Just because you don't choose to participate in a sport, doesn't mean it should be illegal.
Swords are meant to kill people.. I don't get your point, I just wanted to point out the difference between weapons and alcohol.
Of course weapons can be used for sport... but there should be regulation... buying automatic military grade weapons is not normal, and should never be legal... under any circumstance
|
On December 15 2012 05:01 tomatriedes wrote:
I wonder if the founding fathers would have worded their 2nd amendment somewhat differently if they had foreseen some of the purposes guns are used in the US for today.
It was created during a different time, and context. I thought the main purpose of it was for the chance to fight back against a tyrannical regime? And also the fear that the Brits (and the colonies) were going to come invade.
I find the original purpose has been extremely distorted nowadays.
The ownership of small arms really won't do much when you're dealing with mechanized armies and drones.
|
The argument that "criminals will get guns either way" is not true in the vast majority of cases. Most shootings do not occur at the hands of someone involved in organized crime, they are done by troubled people with easy legal access to guns.
|
On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense.
If you want to assume someone breaking into your house while you occupy it has no intention of harming you that's your prerogative however naive it may be. In my opinion anyone breaking into my house while I am in it has knowingly forfeited his right to safety and life.
|
On December 15 2012 05:08 ahappystar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:49 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:46 ahappystar wrote:On December 15 2012 04:41 Timurid wrote:On December 15 2012 04:39 Piledriver wrote:The only fucking difference being that Alcohol kills the abuser. Guns kill innocents who are not even related to the person owning the gun. You are fucking dense. I don't give a shit if someone drinks himself to death. Its his stupidity. However, I don't want his stupidity affecting me or my family. How hard is it for you to understand? How about people who drink and drive and kill an innocent family on the road? It's illegal to drink and drive, not drink... simple The only use for guns is to harm or kill people, alcohol has other uses imo There's sport shooting, hunting. Your same logic should mean we should get rid of all swords, including those used to train for Fencing, a well-established sport, because swords are intended to kill people. Just because you don't choose to participate in a sport, doesn't mean it should be illegal. Swords are meant to kill people.. I don't get your point, I just wanted to point out the difference between weapons and alcohol. Of course weapons can be used for sport... but there should be regulation... buying automatic military grade weapons is not normal, and should never be legal... under any circumstance
Well now, most weapons have been military grade at some point. The M24 sniper rifle is a modified Remington 700 bolt action hunting rifle.
Now, do I agree that there should be sensible limitations regarding firearms? Absolutely, for example, they did a background check to make sure I'm not a violent criminal when I bought my pistol. Stuff like that, I applaud. Keeping certain levels of weaponry out of the hand of the average idiot, sure.
But the fact is, there ARE non-violent uses for guns. Which was my entire point. You should have worded it differently if you wanted it taken differently.
|
On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:
However, a gun is a great equalizer.
And I thought you Americans don't like communism 
But on a serious note: No it's not. Reflexes can be trained, the will to use a gun is different for every person. Situational advantages factor in greatly.
This argument is a lie.
For the rest of your wall of text: A burglar is not a murderer. The sentence to robbing is not death.
On December 15 2012 05:07 Esk23 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. You're trusting a criminal who breaks into your house to not kill you or your family? That's the difference between your country and ours, we'd rather defend ourselves and not take that risk. The fact that a criminal breaks into your house in the first place shows the criminal means you or your family harm.
The fuck is it with these arguments? The burglar wants money. He doesn't get money by killing you.
|
On December 15 2012 05:10 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. If you want to assume someone breaking into your house while you occupy it has no intention of harming you that's your prerogative however naive it may be. In my opinion anyone breaking into my house while I am in it has knowingly forfeited his right to safety and life.
He/she wouldn't break into your house if he/she didn't have a gun, or at least your family has a better chance of not being killed if he/she does not have a gun
|
On December 15 2012 05:07 Esk23 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. You're trusting a criminal who breaks into your house to not kill you or your family? That's the difference between your country and ours, we'd rather defend ourselves and not take that risk. The fact that a criminal breaks into your house in the first place shows the criminal means you or your family harm.
The primary motive of break ins in to secure goods and other monetary motives, and this is supported by all statistics. I won't bother to look it up since the stats won't change your mind either way.
If they wanted to kill you, they had preexisting motives to do so. Stranger crime is much more rare then you believe it to be.
Fun facts. People are much more likely to die from an acquaintance, family member or from domestic violence than from a stranger. These rates are much higher if the individual is a woman.
|
On December 15 2012 05:09 arfyron wrote:
The argument that "criminals will get guns either way" is not true in the vast majority of cases. Most shootings do not occur at the hands of someone involved in organized crime, they are done by troubled people with easy legal access to guns.
You're completely and utterly wrong. Criminals have easy access to guns just as everyone else does. I don't know why people in here keep bringing up organized crime. Solo criminals all have guns. This debate has NOTHING to do with organized crime, and bringing it up just shows how uninformed you are about violent gun crime in america.
|
On December 15 2012 05:10 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. If you want to assume someone breaking into your house while you occupy it has no intention of harming you that's your prerogative however naive it may be. In my opinion anyone breaking into my house while I am in it has knowingly forfeited his right to safety and life.
So intruding or breaking and entering equals the right to take another man's life? Interesting.
|
On December 15 2012 05:12 ahappystar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:10 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. If you want to assume someone breaking into your house while you occupy it has no intention of harming you that's your prerogative however naive it may be. In my opinion anyone breaking into my house while I am in it has knowingly forfeited his right to safety and life. He/she wouldn't break into your house if he/she didn't have a gun, or at least your family has a better chance of not being killed if he/she does not have a gun
Unfortunately we are talking about reality not a fairy tale where guns aren't everywhere.
|
On December 15 2012 05:08 jinorazi wrote:the world would be a better place without guns, just like if there were nukes and whatnot. i'll feel comfortable some crackhead coming at me with a knife, more hesitant with a gun. however thats in a fairy tale world when compared to USA. to rid of guns in USA only harms law abiding citizens. there is no need to introduce guns in south korea, there is no need to introduce marijuana in korea because that is determined by the culture, USA and Korea are two different cultures that requires two different approach. trying to shove "gun control" ideas to americans will not work, not because of ignorance but because its understood. Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:01 tomatriedes wrote:
I wonder if the founding fathers would have worded their 2nd amendment somewhat differently if they had foreseen some of the purposes guns are used in the US for today. weapons, swords or guns, were used for crime throughout human history...its not like guns were never used against innocent pre 1800s.
you would not feel comfortable with a crackhead coming at you with a knife, who are you trying to fool?
|
On December 15 2012 05:12 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:
However, a gun is a great equalizer. And I thought you Americans don't like communism But on a serious note: No it's not. Reflexes can be trained, the will to use a gun is different for every person. Situational advantages factor in greatly. This argument is a lie. For the rest of your wall of text: A burglar is not a murderer. The sentence to robbing is not death.
LOL. You'd sit down and have a beer with a burglar in your own house wouldn't you? You actually respect or think burglars have any rights whatsoever when they violate others' rights by trying to rob them? Wow.
|
On December 15 2012 05:14 iLikeRain wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:10 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. If you want to assume someone breaking into your house while you occupy it has no intention of harming you that's your prerogative however naive it may be. In my opinion anyone breaking into my house while I am in it has knowingly forfeited his right to safety and life. So intruding or breaking and entering equals the right to take another man's life? Interesting.
Yes, breaking into an occupied home equals the right to take another mans life as stated in self defense acts around the US.
|
Obama's Press secretary seconds before Obama appears:
"This is not a day to discuss gun control policies"
- Exactly as Moore and Dawkins tweeted a few hours ago
|
On December 15 2012 05:07 Esk23 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. You're trusting a criminal who breaks into your house to not kill you or your family? That's the difference between your country and ours, we'd rather defend ourselves and not take that risk. The fact that a criminal breaks into your house in the first place shows the criminal means you or your family harm.
Maybe we just have smarter criminals 
The majority of time, a thief will not want to hurt anyone. This is not because the thief is a nice person, but because they know that if they get caught they do not want to add assault charges to the thieving charges. Guns are difficult to obtain for UK criminals, but not impossible to obtain. They choose not to carry guns (most of the time).
I remember a security van being robbed as it collected money from a bingo hall in London (I was across the street). The thieves were armed and shot the armed guards in the van (they did not die).
On another occasion, I remember a group robbed many jewellery stores in the home counties before they were eventually caught. The thieves carried bats (not guns) because they knew that they would not be facing armed resistance, and they did not want to add firearms charges to their robbery charges (if they got caught). Lots of goods were stolen, but no on was hurt in any of the robberies.
|
On December 15 2012 05:13 Eps wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 05:07 Esk23 wrote:On December 15 2012 05:04 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 05:01 heliusx wrote:On December 15 2012 04:59 L3g3nd_ wrote:On December 15 2012 04:53 iLikeRain wrote:On December 15 2012 04:43 JingleHell wrote:On December 15 2012 04:25 L3g3nd_ wrote:
whens the last time you heard of a school shooting outside of the US? i can name 5-6 major school shootings from the US in the last 10 years, but not a single one outside of the US. it isnt a bloody coincidence. If, for example, three dudes with a baseball bat or two kicked in my door (not particularly unreasonable) with the intent of robbing our apartment, all my training and experience would mean about jack shit in close quarters, unarmed. With a knife or other hand weapon, WITH considerably more training than the average civilian, I give myself good odds of taking one out of the fight, and injuring a second in that situation, if I was awake when it happened. In other words, doing just enough damage to guarantee reprisals against myself and my family. Give me my handgun, and I guarantee you, even if I'm asleep when it happens, best case scenario, three criminals fleeing or in custody, worst case, the body count doesn't include my wife or three year old son. I'd be able to look myself in the mirror if I took a life to protect my family. You're so afraid that you don't even see the danger you put all of you in? You say yourself the criminals are there to rob your apartment. Do you think they willingly commit murder as well? No. You own a handgun and if you do criminals are more careful and probably wont hesitate to kill you because they know it's you or them. I can't even remember the last time I heard about a robbery turning into gun violence here in Denmark. The vast majority of people don't own weapons and the thieves realy have nothing to fear but getting caught. They don't bring a gun into a robbery because there is no need for it when civillians don't have any. i think this is a very good point, by resisting a robbery you are putting yourself in more risk, and everyone around you in even more risk. Are you honestly saying it's better to let criminals breaking into your house do as they please instead of defending yourself? Why would you EVER risk the life of yourself or any of your family members for material goods? The thieves are there to get MONEY not to fight you, not to take your life. When you bring a gun into the mix of course they will be wary. You just showed you're willing to kill them and they ironically act in self defense. You're trusting a criminal who breaks into your house to not kill you or your family? That's the difference between your country and ours, we'd rather defend ourselves and not take that risk. The fact that a criminal breaks into your house in the first place shows the criminal means you or your family harm. The primary motive of break ins in to secure goods and other monetary motives, and this is supported by all statistics. I won't bother to look it up since the stats won't change your mind either way. If they wanted to kill you, they had preexisting motives to do so. Stranger crime is much more rare then you believe it to be. Fun facts. People are much more likely to die from an acquaintance, family member or from domestic violence than from a stranger. These rates are much higher if the individual is a woman.
I honestly think people with your viewpoint are just too afraid to defend themselves. You'd rather take it up the ass by some criminal instead of doing anything that might hurt the poor criminal who's just trying to survive by robbing, cheating, murdering.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
