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On November 03 2011 22:18 Egyptian_Head wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 22:12 PolSC2 wrote:
How can anyone even consider a child abuse victim as "not guiltless"? Depends if a child made there parents life a living hell for 16 years are they guiltless? I don't think they are guiltless. I don't think anything should be done to them really but they certainly contributed to it happening if they intentionally provoked there parents for that length of time. Pleas note I am not talking about this particular case, this is just an example in general. Parents are not super human they have limits. If a child is aware of this limits and continues to push at them they share a little guilt.
My child has gone past my limits but I have never laid a hand on my son. There is no excuse for what is in that video whatsoever.
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On November 03 2011 22:19 nBk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 22:18 Egyptian_Head wrote:On November 03 2011 22:12 PolSC2 wrote:
How can anyone even consider a child abuse victim as "not guiltless"? Depends if a child made there parents life a living hell for 16 years are they guiltless? I don't think they are guiltless. I don't think anything should be done to them really but they certainly contributed to it happening if they intentionally provoked there parents for that length of time. Pleas note I am not talking about this particular case, this is just an example in general. Parents are not super human they have limits. If a child is aware of this limits and continues to push at them they share a little guilt. My child has gone past my limits but I have never laid a hand on my son. There is no excuse for what is in that video whatsoever.
Exactly why the parent should be punished regardless. But as I said parents are not super human. Denying a kid could go to far causing there parent to snap is just plain wrong. It has happened many times.
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On November 03 2011 22:18 Egyptian_Head wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 22:12 PolSC2 wrote:
How can anyone even consider a child abuse victim as "not guiltless"? Depends if a child made there parents life a living hell for 16 years are they guiltless? I don't think they are guiltless. I don't think anything should be done to them really but they certainly contributed to it happening if they intentionally provoked there parents for that length of time. Pleas note I am not talking about this particular case, this is just an example in general. Parents are not super human they have limits. If a child is aware of this limits and continues to push at them they share a little guilt.
respectfully disagree.
32yrs old and i have a 2 yr old daughter if that makes any difference.
ofcourse i have limits , but a child stepping over those should not happen in the first place and if it does get to you that much , you step outside , cool off and then discipline.
you don't react in a fit of rage let alone beat a child with a belt like this example.
i can't for the life of me imagine that i would ever do this to my daughter.
she would fear me and i don't ever want that.
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Bah, tried watching this for a 2nd time around.... barely got to 30 seconds and wanted to pay a visit to the man myself....
Lucky for him I have self-restraint (something he doesn't).
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On November 03 2011 22:22 Egyptian_Head wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 22:19 nBk wrote:On November 03 2011 22:18 Egyptian_Head wrote:On November 03 2011 22:12 PolSC2 wrote:
How can anyone even consider a child abuse victim as "not guiltless"? Depends if a child made there parents life a living hell for 16 years are they guiltless? I don't think they are guiltless. I don't think anything should be done to them really but they certainly contributed to it happening if they intentionally provoked there parents for that length of time. Pleas note I am not talking about this particular case, this is just an example in general. Parents are not super human they have limits. If a child is aware of this limits and continues to push at them they share a little guilt. My child has gone past my limits but I have never laid a hand on my son. There is no excuse for what is in that video whatsoever. Exactly why the parent should be punished regardless. But as I said parents are not super human. Denying a kid could go to far causing there parent to snap is just plain wrong. It has happened many times.
Yes I agree to some extent, i've seen that happen myself but, as a parent you should know better. Also there is many ways to avoid these things, as well as other ways the parents could of handled this situation.
As a parent your kids best interests should always be in mind (future, morals, etc), not how hard they can beat it into you.
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On November 03 2011 22:23 Arunu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 22:18 Egyptian_Head wrote:On November 03 2011 22:12 PolSC2 wrote:
How can anyone even consider a child abuse victim as "not guiltless"? Depends if a child made there parents life a living hell for 16 years are they guiltless? I don't think they are guiltless. I don't think anything should be done to them really but they certainly contributed to it happening if they intentionally provoked there parents for that length of time. Pleas note I am not talking about this particular case, this is just an example in general. Parents are not super human they have limits. If a child is aware of this limits and continues to push at them they share a little guilt. respectfully disagree. 32yrs old and i have a 2 yr old daughter if that makes any difference. ofcourse i have limits , but a child stepping over those should not happen in the first place and if it does get to you that much , you step outside , cool off and then discipline. you don't react in a fit of rage let alone beat a child with a belt like this example. i can't for the life of me imagine that i would ever do this to my daughter. she would fear me and i don't ever want that.
Exactly. I have a two year old daugher as well.
Raising a kid through fear is wrong, and it makes you a terrible parent.
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On November 03 2011 22:23 Arunu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 22:18 Egyptian_Head wrote:On November 03 2011 22:12 PolSC2 wrote:
How can anyone even consider a child abuse victim as "not guiltless"? Depends if a child made there parents life a living hell for 16 years are they guiltless? I don't think they are guiltless. I don't think anything should be done to them really but they certainly contributed to it happening if they intentionally provoked there parents for that length of time. Pleas note I am not talking about this particular case, this is just an example in general. Parents are not super human they have limits. If a child is aware of this limits and continues to push at them they share a little guilt. respectfully disagree. 32yrs old and i have a 2 yr old daughter if that makes any difference. ofcourse i have limits , but a child stepping over those should not happen in the first place and if it does get to you that much , you step outside , cool off and then discipline. you don't react in a fit of rage let alone beat a child with a belt like this example. i can't for the life of me imagine that i would ever do this to my daughter. she would fear me and i don't ever want that.
Yes, you are right, and that is why I believe that regardless the parent must be held responsible. But it does happen, people do just snap, there are such things as crimes of passion. People kill people without stopping to think, they literally lose control. I think it would be foolish to deny this could happen to a parent.
I am not talking about some legal definition of guilt here, I am more saying a child can cause help cause the situation. I do want to make it clear that even in such cases I do not believe the child deserved the abuse or anything. But I think it is stupid to say they didn't help cause it. Also I wouldn't assign guilt unless the kid knew they were pushing there parent to far.
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On November 03 2011 19:03 MuATaran wrote:
There is a difference between punishment and abuse, this is clearly abusive. I have no interest in counting how many time he actually hits her but I would guess that it is at least 20 times, if not more. I understand that some parents think that punishment through pain is the best way but there is always a line and this guy fucking destroyed it, not to mention the fact that the dad threatens to beat her ass raw if she steps out of line at all.
She got spanked 13 times...
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On November 03 2011 22:30 Egyptian_Head wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 22:23 Arunu wrote:On November 03 2011 22:18 Egyptian_Head wrote:On November 03 2011 22:12 PolSC2 wrote:
How can anyone even consider a child abuse victim as "not guiltless"? Depends if a child made there parents life a living hell for 16 years are they guiltless? I don't think they are guiltless. I don't think anything should be done to them really but they certainly contributed to it happening if they intentionally provoked there parents for that length of time. Pleas note I am not talking about this particular case, this is just an example in general. Parents are not super human they have limits. If a child is aware of this limits and continues to push at them they share a little guilt. respectfully disagree. 32yrs old and i have a 2 yr old daughter if that makes any difference. ofcourse i have limits , but a child stepping over those should not happen in the first place and if it does get to you that much , you step outside , cool off and then discipline. you don't react in a fit of rage let alone beat a child with a belt like this example. i can't for the life of me imagine that i would ever do this to my daughter. she would fear me and i don't ever want that. Yes, you are right, and that is why I believe that regardless the parent must be held responsible. But it does happen, people do just snap, there are such things as crimes of passion. People kill people without stopping to think, they literally lose control. I think it would be foolish to deny this could happen to a parent. I am not talking about some legal definition of guilt here, I am more saying a child can cause help cause the situation. I do want to make it clear that even in such cases I do not believe the child deserved the abuse or anything. But I think it is stupid to say they didn't help cause it. Also I wouldn't assign guilt unless the kid knew they were pushing there parent to far.
you're right on the snapping part, i personally don't snap easily but have seen friends or people around me snap for the most futile of reasons.
at least , i found them to be futile reasons.
regardless of that, this is a pretty evident case of stepping way over " good parenting " boundaries and should be acted strongly upon.
the language he uses and the return visit with the "i didn't get my licks in " show this wasn't about discipline, it was about a power trip of abuse.
edit :spelling
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On November 03 2011 22:42 Perseverance wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 19:03 MuATaran wrote:
There is a difference between punishment and abuse, this is clearly abusive. I have no interest in counting how many time he actually hits her but I would guess that it is at least 20 times, if not more. I understand that some parents think that punishment through pain is the best way but there is always a line and this guy fucking destroyed it, not to mention the fact that the dad threatens to beat her ass raw if she steps out of line at all. She got spanked 13 times...
Actually, it was 17 times. And that's not spanking. That was whipping with a belt.
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you should really develop your "thesis" more than just throwing a link out there. Which people, and how/why have they developed reaction formation?
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On November 03 2011 12:18 koreasilver wrote:
This thread is so chock full of direct examples of how victims internalize abuse and later use their abuse to justify abusing others, donning the mask of those that abused them.
It's not only sad but downright disturbing.
I completely agree, sad but true
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I got whipped a lot when I was a child. Sometimes for really trivial things. Don't get me wrong, I love my parents, but I really wished I was brought up in a different way.
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On November 03 2011 22:48 PolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 22:42 Perseverance wrote:On November 03 2011 19:03 MuATaran wrote:
There is a difference between punishment and abuse, this is clearly abusive. I have no interest in counting how many time he actually hits her but I would guess that it is at least 20 times, if not more. I understand that some parents think that punishment through pain is the best way but there is always a line and this guy fucking destroyed it, not to mention the fact that the dad threatens to beat her ass raw if she steps out of line at all. She got spanked 13 times... Actually, it was 17 times. And that's not spanking. That was whipping with a belt.
People generally use belts because they sting like hell and it is very hard to actually hurt the person for more than a couple hours and thats if they go really over board. A belt is better than a hand in so many ways for an abused child. With a hand there will likely be permanent damage if you are being abused. With a belt you get hit, it hurts but it goes away quickly. You really have to go very far to do damage with a belt.
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im on the phone with the swedish media this is sick, i never report to media but this... this is sick!!
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On November 03 2011 22:19 nBk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 22:18 Egyptian_Head wrote:On November 03 2011 22:12 PolSC2 wrote:
How can anyone even consider a child abuse victim as "not guiltless"? Depends if a child made there parents life a living hell for 16 years are they guiltless? I don't think they are guiltless. I don't think anything should be done to them really but they certainly contributed to it happening if they intentionally provoked there parents for that length of time. Pleas note I am not talking about this particular case, this is just an example in general. Parents are not super human they have limits. If a child is aware of this limits and continues to push at them they share a little guilt. My child has gone past my limits but I have never laid a hand on my son. There is no excuse for what is in that video whatsoever.
I don't see what the first part has to do with the second.
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To be completely honest I think the fear that the daughter showed towards her father was much more disturbing than the belt hits. For him to constantly walk away and hit her almost at random was the scary part, not the pain inflicted. Call me cynical but the girl doesnt seem like she is that physically hurt at the end of the video and having been hit with belts before (with friends and WAY harder than this) it doesn't leave lasting injury.
I think society has become way too sensitive to parental punishment. While I am mortified by the video of the woman pouring hot sauce in her sons mouth, belt whipping is nothing new.
That being said I think everyone calling for this guy to face capital punishment are a little over the top. I don't even think that jail time should be in the future. I think a ton of hours of mandated therapy and either time away from his daughter or monitored interactions would be what is best.
I think the punishment would have been fine if it wasn't done with such anger, exagerrated amount, and lack of control.
Also, the girl knows the camera is there so its kind of hard to tell how much of her screaming and things she says are exaggerated knowing that this will be shown to others. I think watching this video without sound from the girl would be interesting.
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During day time, he decide of sentence of other citizens and during night time he beat his daughter
nice!!!
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On November 03 2011 23:47 Mattchew wrote:
That being said I think everyone calling for this guy to face capital punishment are a little over the top. I don't even think that jail time should be in the future. I think a ton of hours of mandated therapy and either time away from his daughter or monitored interactions would be what is best.
I think the punishment would have been fine if it wasn't done with such anger and lack of control.
If only USA was as civil as most countries in Europe. I think Sweden was the first country with a legal non-tolerance regarding corporal punishment, and that was 30 years ago. A majority of the european countries have picked up the same stance since then.
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EPT
