EPTThan again UN, UNESCO... etc are getting to be a bit of a joke, they were a bit of a joke forever to be honest.
Palestine accepted into UNESCO, US pulls funding - Page 33
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Stay on topic. I cannot put it more clearly then that. Derailments will be met with consequences. ~Nyovne | ||
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Aterons_toss
Romania1275 Posts
Than again UN, UNESCO... etc are getting to be a bit of a joke, they were a bit of a joke forever to be honest. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On November 30 2012 14:28 white_horse wrote: No, no, those reasons don't make israel any better as a US ally. I'm pretty sure many in the jewish lobby are as anti-islam or anti-arab as much as arabs are anti-jewish, which can partly be the reason why they lobby for pro-israel policies. Influencing a country's policy to suit your personal bias doesn't make the alliance with israel "rational". It's being selfish and totally unfair to the american people, who deserve a middle eastern foreign policy that betters all Americans, not just jewish-americans. Israel has their share of doing wrong things as much as arab nations have done wrong to israel. Nobody is "good". If israel was the "rational" choice for an ally in the middle east, its only because, like I said, israel is a liberal democracy, which is most in line with the ideals that the US supports around the world. Also, since the US wants the world to stay stable, it supports israel to balance the equation in the israel vs arab nation conflict. If the US were to suddenly cut off all military and economic aid to israel, countries like iran or syria would walk all over israel. Nobody wants that kind of turmoil to happen. So it would only be natural to ally with israel in that regard. The reason why Israel is our ally is because we have these utlra-rich, ultra-powerful Zionists with an impossibly powerful lobby here in the US. When I said Israel was the most rational country in the region, I wasn't implying anything of why they're our ally or not. I was just stating a simple fact. The Mideast has regressed significantly. While the US has played its part in that since the 50s, it has a lot to do with the fact that religious fundamentalism has been gradually growing there. But where religious nutjobbery was suppressed by secular regimes, the US tore them open a new one just to have Islamists gain power. Meanwhile, the US heavily supports Islamist states like the Gulf Arab nations, breeders of Islamofascism and terrorism, for our own strategic interests. I think, especially with the current trend, the long-term costs of such policy will be really, really bad. In fact, we're seeing it right now. In the blink of an eye, even the most influential Arab and Muslim country has turned into an Islamist state. We are seriously losing our hold in the Mideast, and in our decades-long quest to try to regain it wherever we lost it in the past, things usually got worse when we took action. The "Arab spring", most of all, was literally a catastrophe, and I knew it would be right when it started. Things are so grim in the Mideast, it's astonishing. | ||
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TNK
United States163 Posts
On November 30 2012 16:01 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: The reason why Israel is our ally is because we have these utlra-rich, ultra-powerful Zionists with an impossibly powerful lobby here in the US. You know that a lot of the money are not from the rich Jews but rather from Fucking crazy Evangelicals Who think Jews in Jerusalem equals rapture. User was warned for this post | ||
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gm.tOSS
Germany898 Posts
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/11/barak/ | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On November 30 2012 16:47 TNK wrote: You know that a lot of the money are not from the rich Jews but rather from Fucking crazy Evangelicals Who think Jews in Jerusalem equals rapture. That is very true as well XD. Living in Cali, I don't see much of it, but you're right. Our country has quite a good number of batshit insane people haha. | ||
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Tobberoth
Sweden6375 Posts
On November 02 2011 00:57 konadora wrote: holy... how on earth did that even happen and no one raised the issue over the course of decades? Didn't raise an issue? What do you think the hostilities in Gaza etc are about? Jews have taken the whole frickin country and is using the weak resistance of the palestinians to justify bombing the shit out of them. | ||
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StayPhrosty
Canada406 Posts
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Zahir
United States947 Posts
On November 30 2012 12:09 Cirqueenflex wrote: pretty much the same way this happened: ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Germanborders.svg) do people care that Germany lost half its land over the past 100 years? Not really. You lose the war, you lose your land, winner takes all (sad enough the loss of land after WW1 was quite a part of the reason for Hitler to get power in the first place). So how did Israel did get that big? They were attacked (or landed a preemptive first strike when there was clearly an attack incoming), won all their wars, and took some land every time. They were even nice enough to give the entire sinaii semi island back to Egypt just to make peace, even though they really could use some more land. If they wouldn't have won their wars, they would be wiped out completely by now. Uh, people do care that Germany suffered extremely harshly in the treaty of Versailles - it was one the great diplomatic clusterfucks of the modern era and led pretty much directly to the rise of the nazi party and the most destructive war in history. Not exactly the greatest evidence for why even a defeated people losing their land and dignity should be viewed as justifiable. If you really wanted to play devils advocate a map of an expanding America vs shrinking native territories would serve as a much better analog for what is actually happening. Furthermore, if the current day map of Germany resembled the current day map of Palestine in terms of lost territory, cantonization, unsustainability, etc, I doubt you or anyone else would have the same blasé attitude towards the German people and their plight as many seem to have towards Palestine. | ||
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Cute_Fluff
Israel14 Posts
well i DO! and this is pure bullshit and incoherence, do your research on your own, look up what happened here from the start, none of u remember that after israel was declared in the UN, just as Palestine was today - ISRAEL WAS ATTACKED BY ALL SURROUNDING ARAB COUNTRIES! pls, stfu all of u! and just a week ago - who BOMBED ISRAEL ?!?!? PALESTINE! u guys are dumb i live under the bombs! THEY ARE TERRORISTS LEAD BY TERRORISTS - AND U BRACE THEM! and now u take them with open arms to the UN and all other orgs, so dumb sure, let them in the NUCLEAR AGENCY !!! lets have IRAN 2! open ur eyes, all Europe is full of muslims and arabs - this shit is coming fast to you all - a private Palestine in every EU country - good luck dealing with that, then come cry to us for advice. damn peace-hippies! go gay up somewhere else! concerned Israeli. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11528 Posts
On November 30 2012 18:40 Zahir wrote: Uh, people do care that Germany suffered extremely harshly in the treaty of Versailles - it was one the great diplomatic clusterfucks of the modern era and led pretty much directly to the rise of the nazi party and the most destructive war in history. Not exactly the greatest evidence for why even a defeated people losing their land and dignity should be viewed as justifiable. If you really wanted to play devils advocate a map of an expanding America vs shrinking native territories would serve as a much better analog for what is actually happening. Furthermore, if the current day map of Germany resembled the current day map of Palestine in terms of lost territory, cantonization, unsustainability, etc, I doubt you or anyone else would have the same blasé attitude towards the German people and their plight as many seem to have towards Palestine. Well, 20 years ago it did. And today, as you saw, Germany still lost half its land in the last 100 years. And noone cares. Because it is completely irrelevant. Literally no one in Germany even cares about the borders. The main point being made here is that pretty much no one anywhere would talk about how horrifying it is that Germany lost half it's territory within such a small timeframe. Because it is not. What this shows is that painting a map of territorial changes does not really give you a good accessment of the situation. But somehow that always happens for the middle East, and some people think it gives you all the information you need. | ||
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Passion
Netherlands1486 Posts
On November 30 2012 18:53 Cute_Fluff wrote: NONE OF U IS JEWISH OR LIVES IN ISRAEL! well i DO! and this is pure bullshit and incoherence, do your research on your own, look up what happened here from the start, none of u remember that after israel was declared in the UN, just as Palestine was today - ISRAEL WAS ATTACKED BY ALL SURROUNDING ARAB COUNTRIES! pls, stfu all of u! and just a week ago - who BOMBED ISRAEL ?!?!? PALESTINE! u guys are dumb i live under the bombs! THEY ARE TERRORISTS LEAD BY TERRORISTS - AND U BRACE THEM! and now u take them with open arms to the UN and all other orgs, so dumb sure, let them in the NUCLEAR AGENCY !!! lets have IRAN 2! open ur eyes, all Europe is full of muslims and arabs - this shit is coming fast to you all - a private Palestine in every EU country - good luck dealing with that, then come cry to us for advice. damn peace-hippies! go gay up somewhere else! concerned Israeli. Living in Israel clearly means you're subject to massive propaganda and lies. That much seems clear. Israel stole the land from Palestine, already before the end of WW2. Israel was helped in this by Britain, and later the USA. Israel has been as much the aggressor as the victim, if not more. Israel never had the right to be aggressive, while for the Islamic nations this was understandable. Imagine we suddenly create a absurdly armed Muslim nation in the location of Switzerland. I'm pretty confident none of the surrounding nations would feel very comfortable. Especially not if this nation gets fed and sponsored by the USA and gets a free ticket to attack anyone they like without ever having to fear repercussions. You don't understand Palestinian citizens start sending some relatively innocent rockets to Israel, after being shelled and bombed in a ridiculous manner for years? Having lost their family, their loved ones, everything they have? Open your eyes, please. The amount of horror the Israeli cause is in no relation to the trouble Muslims cause. There's 1,3 billion Muslims and 13 million jews. Imagine the Islamic world having the same moral standards as Israel. Frightful. A private Palestine in every EU country? Are you kidding? You are the invader, you are the ones who are causing the trouble. Had you never started your invasive Zionist movement, the area would be at peace. You have absolutely no excuse for the death and misery you've caused. Stop blaming others and start feeling the shame. You exceed Nazi Germany in individual brutality. Finally, do you really think you can afford homophobia on top of all your other sins? Think twice. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4730 Posts
On November 30 2012 18:53 Cute_Fluff wrote: NONE OF U IS JEWISH OR LIVES IN ISRAEL! well i DO! and this is pure bullshit and incoherence, do your research on your own, look up what happened here from the start, none of u remember that after israel was declared in the UN, just as Palestine was today - ISRAEL WAS ATTACKED BY ALL SURROUNDING ARAB COUNTRIES! pls, stfu all of u! and just a week ago - who BOMBED ISRAEL ?!?!? PALESTINE! u guys are dumb i live under the bombs! THEY ARE TERRORISTS LEAD BY TERRORISTS - AND U BRACE THEM! and now u take them with open arms to the UN and all other orgs, so dumb sure, let them in the NUCLEAR AGENCY !!! lets have IRAN 2! open ur eyes, all Europe is full of muslims and arabs - this shit is coming fast to you all - a private Palestine in every EU country - good luck dealing with that, then come cry to us for advice. damn peace-hippies! go gay up somewhere else! concerned Israeli. Those peacefull people of Isreal, they would never resort to terrorist attack, terroism is bad? Right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing Only tip of the iceberg. Both sides did use violence and terrosim, the stronger won, the only "right" Jewish people have to those lands is a right of being stronger. I can respect that, but dont pretend You are better than Palestinians, Your are not. Also another nice read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks | ||
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Nizaris
Belgium2230 Posts
On November 30 2012 18:53 Cute_Fluff wrote: NONE OF U IS JEWISH OR LIVES IN ISRAEL! well i DO! and this is pure bullshit and incoherence, do your research on your own, look up what happened here from the start, none of u remember that after israel was declared in the UN, just as Palestine was today - ISRAEL WAS ATTACKED BY ALL SURROUNDING ARAB COUNTRIES! pls, stfu all of u! and just a week ago - who BOMBED ISRAEL ?!?!? PALESTINE! u guys are dumb i live under the bombs! THEY ARE TERRORISTS LEAD BY TERRORISTS - AND U BRACE THEM! and now u take them with open arms to the UN and all other orgs, so dumb sure, let them in the NUCLEAR AGENCY !!! lets have IRAN 2! open ur eyes, all Europe is full of muslims and arabs - this shit is coming fast to you all - a private Palestine in every EU country - good luck dealing with that, then come cry to us for advice. damn peace-hippies! go gay up somewhere else! concerned Israeli. wow some1 is mad. are you 12y old or something? You get what you deserve. If some1 was stealing my country i would be doing what Palestinians are doing. | ||
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Goozen
Israel701 Posts
On November 30 2012 19:06 Silvanel wrote: Those peacefull people of Isreal, they would never resort to terrorist attack, terroism is bad? Right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing Only tip of the iceberg. Both sides did use violence and terrosim, the stronger won, the only "right" Jewish people have to those lands is a right of being stronger. I can respect that, but dont pretend You are better than Palestinians, Your are not. Also another nice read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Irgun_attacks So comparing 65 years ago to actions today is fine, right? also people seem to ignore this form your link: "American author Thurston Clarke's analysis of the bombing gave timings for calls and for the explosion which he says took place at 12:37. He said that as part of the Irgun plan, a sixteen year old recruit, Adina Hay (alias Tehia), was to make three warning calls before the attack. At 12:22 the first call was made, in both Hebrew and English, to a telephone operator on the hotel's switchboard (the Secretariat and the military each had their own, separate, telephone exchanges). It was ignored.[4] At 12:27, the second warning call was made to the French Consulate adjacent to the hotel to the north-east. This second call was taken seriously and staff went through the building opening windows and closing curtains to lessen the impact of the blast. At 12:31 a third and final warning call to the Palestine Post newspaper was made. The telephone operator called the Palestine Police CID to report the message. She then called the hotel switchboard. The hotel operator reported the threat to one of the hotel managers. This warning resulted in the discovery of the milk churns in the basement, but by then it was too late.[4]" Their intent was to destroy HQ of the Britisher mandate, if they wanted to kill people why warn them before? Then again you compare attacking the HQ 65 years ago to sending rockets at civilians today. More OT this observer-state changes nothing, Abbas (Abu Mazen) fears his position as more corruption allegation have surfaced recently and he has hit a new low in popular support. The only practical thing the PA can gain from this is use of the ICC and that would be political suicide. | ||
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Passion
Netherlands1486 Posts
On November 30 2012 19:18 Goozen wrote: So comparing 65 years ago to actions today is fine, right? also people seem to ignore this form your link: "American author Thurston Clarke's analysis of the bombing gave timings for calls and for the explosion which he says took place at 12:37. He said that as part of the Irgun plan, a sixteen year old recruit, Adina Hay (alias Tehia), was to make three warning calls before the attack. At 12:22 the first call was made, in both Hebrew and English, to a telephone operator on the hotel's switchboard (the Secretariat and the military each had their own, separate, telephone exchanges). It was ignored.[4] At 12:27, the second warning call was made to the French Consulate adjacent to the hotel to the north-east. This second call was taken seriously and staff went through the building opening windows and closing curtains to lessen the impact of the blast. At 12:31 a third and final warning call to the Palestine Post newspaper was made. The telephone operator called the Palestine Police CID to report the message. She then called the hotel switchboard. The hotel operator reported the threat to one of the hotel managers. This warning resulted in the discovery of the milk churns in the basement, but by then it was too late.[4]" Their intent was to destroy HQ of the Britisher mandate, if they wanted to kill people why warn them before? Then again you compare attacking the HQ 65 years ago to sending rockets at civilians today. More OT this observer-state changes nothing, Abbas (Abu Mazen) fears his position as more corruption allegation have surfaced recently and he has hit a new low in popular support. The only practical thing the PA can gain from this is use of the ICC and that would be political suicide. Lol... fabulous excuse. Also have one for the ~10k Palestinian civilians that Israeli soldiers have murdered in the past 25 years? Yep, that's not 65 years ago. Edit: for comparison, Palestinians haven't even reached 2000 in the same period. So yea, what ever period we take to compare, you're the bad ones. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5595 Posts
1) Take over the land. This would lead into a civil rights movement inside Israel where Palestinians can fight for equal rights, a bit like the one fought by blacks in the US or South Africa. 2) Agree to the two state solution with the borders from 67 - which would lead to the loss of jewish colonies. 3) Do nothing and slowly steal all the valuable land. The third option is what they are going for. On November 02 2011 01:33 nalgene wrote: Nope. It's not a problem. Israel beat those sand people/terrorists with good tactics. They also develop their own weapon systems, too. Like the door busting attachment and the kitty corner shot and the Rafael system. But they do get funding from the US, too. Now if only they would expand into a Greater Israel. If only the US would just 'bring democracy' over to all of Arabia... User was temp banned for this post. I'm sorry for backseat moderation, but this surely must be a permanent ban with such blatant racism? | ||
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Goozen
Israel701 Posts
On November 30 2012 19:27 Passion wrote: Lol... fabulous excuse. Also have one for the ~10k Palestinian civilians that Israeli soldiers have murdered in the past 25 years? Yep, that's not 65 years ago. Edit: for comparison, Palestinians haven't even reached 2000 in the same period. So yea, what ever period we take to compare, you're the bad ones. Show proof that 10k are civilians, oh wait you cant! Also this isnt a numbers game and is not relevant to the topic so im done discussing it in this thread. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4730 Posts
The list is very long, for example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre And Irgun was by no means only Jewish organization perpatrating attacks on both civilians and British army. This is all very relevant right now, Jewish people were fightining for their state back then, just like Palestinians do now. I so no difference between You and Them. Should Palestinians win, the people of Hamas will be called heros by future genarations, just like people are of Irgun and the likes are. Same shit if You look at this objectively. | ||
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Passion
Netherlands1486 Posts
On November 30 2012 19:32 Goozen wrote: Show proof that 10k are civilians, oh wait you cant! Also this isnt a numbers game and is not relevant to the topic so im done discussing it in this thread. Right on. Let's not talk about the problem but just shoot some Arabs - Israeli style. User was warned for this post | ||
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