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On October 27 2011 14:15 saltywet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 14:12 Tektos wrote:On October 27 2011 14:05 saltywet wrote:On October 27 2011 13:39 IMSmooth wrote:saltywet wrote:
the price of shark fins is so high that the price can drop several times and it would still be worth poaching sharks for.
but by the time the price of shark fins have dropped 20$ the demand will skyrocket again.
the idea of saving sharks by banning the dining of shark fin soup is very unrealistic and you'd have to be a white person to not understand that  fuck man, insert any other race or culture in there for white and people would absolutely trash you to pieces get your racist ass off of team liquid way to put things out of context, bold the whole line the next time. after all, its only been the white people whos supporting shark fin banning, and its the white people that thinks it will save sharks. and apparently white people that thinks that line is racist. its like saying that you'd have to be chinese to not understand the leniency of parenting in the average american household, and i dont. you white people clearly dont understand that the banning of shark fin soup is useless You clearly have no clue if you think banning it won't do anything. Its working pretty well with whaling, so I guess in us "white people" actually have previous examples, facts and evidence to back up our stance that banning it will help lessen the effects. What do you have as proof that bans on shark fins wont do anything to lessen the hunting of sharks? None, only conjecture. what about the fact that china, singapore and hong kong simply will never ban shark fin soup and that possibly 99% of chinese people who currently eat shark fin soup will not stop eating it just to save sharks? if the local chinese in canada can't eat it, they can just eat as much as they can the next time they visit china AND THEY WILL
PROVIDE SOME EVIDENCE WHEN YOU USE STATISTICS.
Oh wait, you have no evidence. Once again you're just using conjecture.
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On October 27 2011 13:48 Legatus Lanius wrote:
was it really that offensive lol? i wasnt offended. and it makes sense too, considering that most people in china are not white and they are the ones that know the influence of banning shark fins
You have to view the situation in a non-ethnocentric vacuum. Being able to ravage a population of animals for select meats isn't any more okay for Asians than it is for people of other ethnicities, just as banning ritual sacrifice shouldn't be considered discrimination (racial or otherwise) against those that practice it.
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FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
I'm Chinese, I don't eat shark meat, and I'm not against the ban.
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On October 27 2011 14:19 Tektos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 14:15 saltywet wrote:On October 27 2011 14:12 Tektos wrote:On October 27 2011 14:05 saltywet wrote:On October 27 2011 13:39 IMSmooth wrote:saltywet wrote:
the price of shark fins is so high that the price can drop several times and it would still be worth poaching sharks for.
but by the time the price of shark fins have dropped 20$ the demand will skyrocket again.
the idea of saving sharks by banning the dining of shark fin soup is very unrealistic and you'd have to be a white person to not understand that fuck man, insert any other race or culture in there for white and people would absolutely trash you to pieces get your racist ass off of team liquid way to put things out of context, bold the whole line the next time. after all, its only been the white people whos supporting shark fin banning, and its the white people that thinks it will save sharks. and apparently white people that thinks that line is racist. its like saying that you'd have to be chinese to not understand the leniency of parenting in the average american household, and i dont. you white people clearly dont understand that the banning of shark fin soup is useless You clearly have no clue if you think banning it won't do anything. Its working pretty well with whaling, so I guess in us "white people" actually have previous examples, facts and evidence to back up our stance that banning it will help lessen the effects. What do you have as proof that bans on shark fins wont do anything to lessen the hunting of sharks? None, only conjecture. what about the fact that china, singapore and hong kong simply will never ban shark fin soup and that possibly 99% of chinese people who currently eat shark fin soup will not stop eating it just to save sharks? if the local chinese in canada can't eat it, they can just eat as much as they can the next time they visit china AND THEY WILL PROVIDE SOME EVIDENCE WHEN YOU USE STATISTICS. Oh wait, you have no evidence. Once again you're just using conjecture.
i think this thread is a good enough sample size which shows that most chinese are even against the banning of shark fin soup. if you want i can conduct a survey the next time i go back to hong kong.
sometimes it doesnt take solid evidence to logically make deductions when you're aware of the situation
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On October 27 2011 14:15 saltywet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 14:12 Tektos wrote:On October 27 2011 14:05 saltywet wrote:On October 27 2011 13:39 IMSmooth wrote:saltywet wrote:
the price of shark fins is so high that the price can drop several times and it would still be worth poaching sharks for.
but by the time the price of shark fins have dropped 20$ the demand will skyrocket again.
the idea of saving sharks by banning the dining of shark fin soup is very unrealistic and you'd have to be a white person to not understand that fuck man, insert any other race or culture in there for white and people would absolutely trash you to pieces get your racist ass off of team liquid way to put things out of context, bold the whole line the next time. after all, its only been the white people whos supporting shark fin banning, and its the white people that thinks it will save sharks. and apparently white people that thinks that line is racist. its like saying that you'd have to be chinese to not understand the leniency of parenting in the average american household, and i dont. you white people clearly dont understand that the banning of shark fin soup is useless You clearly have no clue if you think banning it won't do anything. Its working pretty well with whaling, so I guess in us "white people" actually have previous examples, facts and evidence to back up our stance that banning it will help lessen the effects. What do you have as proof that bans on shark fins wont do anything to lessen the hunting of sharks? None, only conjecture. what about the fact that china, singapore and hong kong simply will never ban shark fin soup and that possibly 99% of chinese people who currently eat shark fin soup will not stop eating it just to save sharks? if the local chinese in canada can't eat it, they can just eat as much as they can the next time they visit china AND THEY WILL
First issue to comment on: Racism
People here are commenting on Chinese culture. You are responding by commenting on the white race. Amazingly, it's the people commenting on Chinese culture that are being accused of racism. Calling people any of the following: gwai lo, foreigner, white person, white people is kinda disparaging because you're structuring their position along racial lines. My position has absolutely nothing to do with my race, it's totally irrelevant. Much of your position is almost completely dependent on your race, and that of those you're arguing with. Just some food for thought.
Second issue to comment on: Banning Shark fin soup
I'll make this simple. Look at all the press and attention and discussion a simple ban in one simple Canadian province has triggered internationally. You'd be amazed the awareness a simple ban like this can spread. This thread is proof. Bans will go a long way to spreading awareness about the issue. In addition, there is a market for shark fin, and the size is irrelevant. There are companies associated with distributing shark fins, there are restaurants associated with serving shark fin. A ban in Canada would be a very significant bite out of the overall market. If the rest of the world banned shark fin, you might be surprised to find out that China might consider it. Also if the rest of the world banned shark fin, then China would have no place to get their shark fins anymore.
I'd also like to point out that what I've just wrote is entirely irrelevant, since if you know something is right, you take steps to do something about it, imperfect though they may be. Banning it is just one face of that effort.
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On October 27 2011 14:18 JieXian wrote:
Hot dogs, burgers, all the fast food chains, Pepsi, turkey (not exclusive to USA but it still is your culture), Rocky Mountain oysters] are what I can think of. I'm sure there are a lot more.
I find it kind of humorous, but awesome, that you associate Rocky Mountain oysters with the USA. I think the only person I have ever met that ate those was someone who lost a bet.
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On October 27 2011 14:15 saltywet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 14:12 Tektos wrote:On October 27 2011 14:05 saltywet wrote:On October 27 2011 13:39 IMSmooth wrote:saltywet wrote:
the price of shark fins is so high that the price can drop several times and it would still be worth poaching sharks for.
but by the time the price of shark fins have dropped 20$ the demand will skyrocket again.
the idea of saving sharks by banning the dining of shark fin soup is very unrealistic and you'd have to be a white person to not understand that fuck man, insert any other race or culture in there for white and people would absolutely trash you to pieces get your racist ass off of team liquid way to put things out of context, bold the whole line the next time. after all, its only been the white people whos supporting shark fin banning, and its the white people that thinks it will save sharks. and apparently white people that thinks that line is racist. its like saying that you'd have to be chinese to not understand the leniency of parenting in the average american household, and i dont. you white people clearly dont understand that the banning of shark fin soup is useless You clearly have no clue if you think banning it won't do anything. Its working pretty well with whaling, so I guess in us "white people" actually have previous examples, facts and evidence to back up our stance that banning it will help lessen the effects. What do you have as proof that bans on shark fins wont do anything to lessen the hunting of sharks? None, only conjecture. what about the fact that china, singapore and hong kong simply will never ban shark fin soup and that possibly 99% of chinese people who currently eat shark fin soup will not stop eating it just to save sharks? if the local chinese in canada can't eat it, they can just eat as much as they can the next time they visit china AND THEY WILL
TIL only white people support the ban of shark fin. The Chinese would simply never ban shark fin.
http://ascportfolios.org/chinaandmedia/2011/04/25/shark-fin-soups-days-may-be-numbered/
A recent survey of 1,000 Hong Kong residents found that 78% of respondents viewed taking shark fin soup off menus as “acceptable” or “very acceptable.”
Oh wait.
http://bloomassociation.org/bloom/media/SurveysharkconsumptionhabitsinHong Kong.pdf
Acceptance of not including shark fin soup in a wedding banquet:
Very acceptable 19.6%
Acceptable 58.8%
Not so acceptable 16.5%
Not acceptable at all 5.1%
Perception of shark population size:
Growing 1.5%
The same 9.6%
Declining 88.9%
Feeling about eating endangered fish:
Very comfortable 1.5%
A little comfortable 2.1%
Neither comfortable nor uncomfortable 29.9%
Not so comfortable 38.9%
Not comfortable at all 27.6
Support for the prohibition of the import of shark fins to Hong Kong:
Strong support 31.1%
Moderate support 54.2%
Weak support 11.4%
Not support at all 3.3%
Perception of the quality of the HK marine environment:
Excellent 1.0%
Good 13.4%
Not so good 63.6%
No good at all 21.9%
TIalsoL That a sizable portion of the Hong Kong demographic are white.
inb4 "statistics are damned lies!"
Also, as an aside, claiming that almost every Chinese person that currently consumes shark fin would never stop consuming it out of environmental concerns paints a very pathetic picture of the Chinese, and frankly, it is utterly untrue. You have somehow stereotyped the Chinese in quite possibly the worst way with your own hands. Whatever, if you have such a low opinion of the Chinese then that is your own fault.
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On October 27 2011 14:25 saltywet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 14:19 Tektos wrote:On October 27 2011 14:15 saltywet wrote:On October 27 2011 14:12 Tektos wrote:On October 27 2011 14:05 saltywet wrote:On October 27 2011 13:39 IMSmooth wrote:saltywet wrote:
the price of shark fins is so high that the price can drop several times and it would still be worth poaching sharks for.
but by the time the price of shark fins have dropped 20$ the demand will skyrocket again.
the idea of saving sharks by banning the dining of shark fin soup is very unrealistic and you'd have to be a white person to not understand that fuck man, insert any other race or culture in there for white and people would absolutely trash you to pieces get your racist ass off of team liquid way to put things out of context, bold the whole line the next time. after all, its only been the white people whos supporting shark fin banning, and its the white people that thinks it will save sharks. and apparently white people that thinks that line is racist. its like saying that you'd have to be chinese to not understand the leniency of parenting in the average american household, and i dont. you white people clearly dont understand that the banning of shark fin soup is useless You clearly have no clue if you think banning it won't do anything. Its working pretty well with whaling, so I guess in us "white people" actually have previous examples, facts and evidence to back up our stance that banning it will help lessen the effects. What do you have as proof that bans on shark fins wont do anything to lessen the hunting of sharks? None, only conjecture. what about the fact that china, singapore and hong kong simply will never ban shark fin soup and that possibly 99% of chinese people who currently eat shark fin soup will not stop eating it just to save sharks? if the local chinese in canada can't eat it, they can just eat as much as they can the next time they visit china AND THEY WILL PROVIDE SOME EVIDENCE WHEN YOU USE STATISTICS. Oh wait, you have no evidence. Once again you're just using conjecture. i think this thread is a good enough sample size which shows that most chinese are even against the banning of shark fin soup. if you want i can conduct a survey the next time i go back to hong kong. sometimes it doesnt take solid evidence to logically make deductions when you're aware of the situation
If you conduct the survey, make sure they're educated on every aspect of the subject, don't just ask them what they think about the banning of shark meat by itself, but make sure they're qualified to talk about it.
It'd be like a substitute teacher going to teach a kindergarten class dressed as Freddy Krueger and then interviewing the students on whether or not they liked the teacher. Okay not really but broad strokes man, broad strokes.
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T.O.P's post on the matter have been spot on.
It's a cultural tradition. It's extremely arrogant for people to ban a cultural tradition simply because it doesn't sit well with them. They could have easily banned the sale of shark fin from endangered sharks if it was really about the environment.
Just like whaling in japan. It's a tradition that has been around for thousands of years, for some other culture (westerners as the case is) to say it's inappropriate is just completely rude and arrogant. Westerners do a lot of gross things too in their culture, doesn't mean it should be banned (shaking hands, for example).
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On October 27 2011 14:29 Belial88 wrote:
T.O.P's post on the matter have been spot on.
It's a cultural tradition. It's extremely arrogant for people to ban a cultural tradition simply because it doesn't sit well with them. They could have easily banned the sale of shark fin from endangered sharks if it was really about the environment.
Just like whaling in japan. It's a tradition that has been around for thousands of years, for some other culture (westerners as the case is) to say it's inappropriate is just completely rude and arrogant. Westerners do a lot of gross things too in their culture, doesn't mean it should be banned (shaking hands, for example).
Cuz every time a westerner shakes hands with someone, literally thousands of endangered animals are slain. The ripples of handshaking echo through the tapestry of ecology like the shockwaves from a mighty earthquake.
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On October 27 2011 14:28 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 14:15 saltywet wrote:On October 27 2011 14:12 Tektos wrote:On October 27 2011 14:05 saltywet wrote:On October 27 2011 13:39 IMSmooth wrote:saltywet wrote:
the price of shark fins is so high that the price can drop several times and it would still be worth poaching sharks for.
but by the time the price of shark fins have dropped 20$ the demand will skyrocket again.
the idea of saving sharks by banning the dining of shark fin soup is very unrealistic and you'd have to be a white person to not understand that fuck man, insert any other race or culture in there for white and people would absolutely trash you to pieces get your racist ass off of team liquid way to put things out of context, bold the whole line the next time. after all, its only been the white people whos supporting shark fin banning, and its the white people that thinks it will save sharks. and apparently white people that thinks that line is racist. its like saying that you'd have to be chinese to not understand the leniency of parenting in the average american household, and i dont. you white people clearly dont understand that the banning of shark fin soup is useless You clearly have no clue if you think banning it won't do anything. Its working pretty well with whaling, so I guess in us "white people" actually have previous examples, facts and evidence to back up our stance that banning it will help lessen the effects. What do you have as proof that bans on shark fins wont do anything to lessen the hunting of sharks? None, only conjecture. what about the fact that china, singapore and hong kong simply will never ban shark fin soup and that possibly 99% of chinese people who currently eat shark fin soup will not stop eating it just to save sharks? if the local chinese in canada can't eat it, they can just eat as much as they can the next time they visit china AND THEY WILL TIL only white people support the ban of shark fin. The Chinese would simply never ban shark fin. http://ascportfolios.org/chinaandmedia/2011/04/25/shark-fin-soups-days-may-be-numbered/Show nested quote +A recent survey of 1,000 Hong Kong residents found that 78% of respondents viewed taking shark fin soup off menus as “acceptable” or “very acceptable.” Oh wait. http://bloomassociation.org/bloom/media/SurveysharkconsumptionhabitsinHong Kong.pdfShow nested quote +Acceptance of not including shark fin soup in a wedding banquet:
Very acceptable 19.6%
Acceptable 58.8%
Not so acceptable 16.5%
Not acceptable at all 5.1%
Perception of shark population size:
Growing 1.5%
The same 9.6%
Declining 88.9%
Feeling about eating endangered fish:
Very comfortable 1.5%
A little comfortable 2.1%
Neither comfortable nor uncomfortable 29.9%
Not so comfortable 38.9%
Not comfortable at all 27.6
Support for the prohibition of the import of shark fins to Hong Kong:
Strong support 31.1%
Moderate support 54.2%
Weak support 11.4%
Not support at all 3.3%
Perception of the quality of the HK marine environment:
Excellent 1.0%
Good 13.4%
Not so good 63.6%
No good at all 21.9% TIalsoL That a sizable portion of the Hong Kong demographic are white. inb4 "statistics are damned lies!"
Lol amusing how you went to all that trouble to point out his leap in logic...
But I think he's trying to say that banning sharks fin ONLY in canada will not affect global shark fishing, because of demand from asian countries. A global ban on eating fin may help, but that'll never happen
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On October 27 2011 14:33 taldarimAltar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 14:28 koreasilver wrote:On October 27 2011 14:15 saltywet wrote:On October 27 2011 14:12 Tektos wrote:On October 27 2011 14:05 saltywet wrote:On October 27 2011 13:39 IMSmooth wrote:saltywet wrote:
the price of shark fins is so high that the price can drop several times and it would still be worth poaching sharks for.
but by the time the price of shark fins have dropped 20$ the demand will skyrocket again.
the idea of saving sharks by banning the dining of shark fin soup is very unrealistic and you'd have to be a white person to not understand that fuck man, insert any other race or culture in there for white and people would absolutely trash you to pieces get your racist ass off of team liquid way to put things out of context, bold the whole line the next time. after all, its only been the white people whos supporting shark fin banning, and its the white people that thinks it will save sharks. and apparently white people that thinks that line is racist. its like saying that you'd have to be chinese to not understand the leniency of parenting in the average american household, and i dont. you white people clearly dont understand that the banning of shark fin soup is useless You clearly have no clue if you think banning it won't do anything. Its working pretty well with whaling, so I guess in us "white people" actually have previous examples, facts and evidence to back up our stance that banning it will help lessen the effects. What do you have as proof that bans on shark fins wont do anything to lessen the hunting of sharks? None, only conjecture. what about the fact that china, singapore and hong kong simply will never ban shark fin soup and that possibly 99% of chinese people who currently eat shark fin soup will not stop eating it just to save sharks? if the local chinese in canada can't eat it, they can just eat as much as they can the next time they visit china AND THEY WILL TIL only white people support the ban of shark fin. The Chinese would simply never ban shark fin. http://ascportfolios.org/chinaandmedia/2011/04/25/shark-fin-soups-days-may-be-numbered/A recent survey of 1,000 Hong Kong residents found that 78% of respondents viewed taking shark fin soup off menus as “acceptable” or “very acceptable.” Oh wait. http://bloomassociation.org/bloom/media/SurveysharkconsumptionhabitsinHong Kong.pdfAcceptance of not including shark fin soup in a wedding banquet:
Very acceptable 19.6%
Acceptable 58.8%
Not so acceptable 16.5%
Not acceptable at all 5.1%
Perception of shark population size:
Growing 1.5%
The same 9.6%
Declining 88.9%
Feeling about eating endangered fish:
Very comfortable 1.5%
A little comfortable 2.1%
Neither comfortable nor uncomfortable 29.9%
Not so comfortable 38.9%
Not comfortable at all 27.6
Support for the prohibition of the import of shark fins to Hong Kong:
Strong support 31.1%
Moderate support 54.2%
Weak support 11.4%
Not support at all 3.3%
Perception of the quality of the HK marine environment:
Excellent 1.0%
Good 13.4%
Not so good 63.6%
No good at all 21.9% TIalsoL That a sizable portion of the Hong Kong demographic are white. inb4 "statistics are damned lies!" Lol amusing how you went to all that trouble to point out his leap in logic... But I think he's trying to say that banning sharks fin ONLY in canada will not affect global shark fishing, because of demand from asian countries. A global ban on eating fin may help, but that'll never happen
A global ban outside of China would put an end to shark fin consumption inside China regardless of China's willingness to play along, since there would be no place to get shark fin legally anymore.
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On October 27 2011 14:33 taldarimAltar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 14:28 koreasilver wrote:On October 27 2011 14:15 saltywet wrote:On October 27 2011 14:12 Tektos wrote:On October 27 2011 14:05 saltywet wrote:On October 27 2011 13:39 IMSmooth wrote:saltywet wrote:
the price of shark fins is so high that the price can drop several times and it would still be worth poaching sharks for.
but by the time the price of shark fins have dropped 20$ the demand will skyrocket again.
the idea of saving sharks by banning the dining of shark fin soup is very unrealistic and you'd have to be a white person to not understand that fuck man, insert any other race or culture in there for white and people would absolutely trash you to pieces get your racist ass off of team liquid way to put things out of context, bold the whole line the next time. after all, its only been the white people whos supporting shark fin banning, and its the white people that thinks it will save sharks. and apparently white people that thinks that line is racist. its like saying that you'd have to be chinese to not understand the leniency of parenting in the average american household, and i dont. you white people clearly dont understand that the banning of shark fin soup is useless You clearly have no clue if you think banning it won't do anything. Its working pretty well with whaling, so I guess in us "white people" actually have previous examples, facts and evidence to back up our stance that banning it will help lessen the effects. What do you have as proof that bans on shark fins wont do anything to lessen the hunting of sharks? None, only conjecture. what about the fact that china, singapore and hong kong simply will never ban shark fin soup and that possibly 99% of chinese people who currently eat shark fin soup will not stop eating it just to save sharks? if the local chinese in canada can't eat it, they can just eat as much as they can the next time they visit china AND THEY WILL TIL only white people support the ban of shark fin. The Chinese would simply never ban shark fin. http://ascportfolios.org/chinaandmedia/2011/04/25/shark-fin-soups-days-may-be-numbered/A recent survey of 1,000 Hong Kong residents found that 78% of respondents viewed taking shark fin soup off menus as “acceptable” or “very acceptable.” Oh wait. http://bloomassociation.org/bloom/media/SurveysharkconsumptionhabitsinHong Kong.pdfAcceptance of not including shark fin soup in a wedding banquet:
Very acceptable 19.6%
Acceptable 58.8%
Not so acceptable 16.5%
Not acceptable at all 5.1%
Perception of shark population size:
Growing 1.5%
The same 9.6%
Declining 88.9%
Feeling about eating endangered fish:
Very comfortable 1.5%
A little comfortable 2.1%
Neither comfortable nor uncomfortable 29.9%
Not so comfortable 38.9%
Not comfortable at all 27.6
Support for the prohibition of the import of shark fins to Hong Kong:
Strong support 31.1%
Moderate support 54.2%
Weak support 11.4%
Not support at all 3.3%
Perception of the quality of the HK marine environment:
Excellent 1.0%
Good 13.4%
Not so good 63.6%
No good at all 21.9% TIalsoL That a sizable portion of the Hong Kong demographic are white. inb4 "statistics are damned lies!" Lol amusing how you went to all that trouble to point out his leap in logic... But I think he's trying to say that banning sharks fin ONLY in canada will not affect global shark fishing, because of demand from asian countries. A global ban on eating fin may help, but that'll never happen
I've noted that this is a very small affair, especially since the ban is only in one city, not even a province let alone the entire country (insert link to "do you actually read the whole OP" thread).
Nevertheless, by this guy's definition it seems like at least half of Hong Kong residents are not actually Chinese, let alone Asian. Cool story, bro.
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On October 27 2011 14:29 Belial88 wrote:
T.O.P's post on the matter have been spot on.
It's a cultural tradition. It's extremely arrogant for people to ban a cultural tradition simply because it doesn't sit well with them. They could have easily banned the sale of shark fin from endangered sharks if it was really about the environment.
Just like whaling in japan. It's a tradition that has been around for thousands of years, for some other culture (westerners as the case is) to say it's inappropriate is just completely rude and arrogant. Westerners do a lot of gross things too in their culture, doesn't mean it should be banned (shaking hands, for example).
i haven't read the whole thread, and i agree that banning something cultural is usually wrong, and lots of fucked up shit happens in the world... but if you are going to catch a shark and only take its fins well... at least kill the shark first.
The fact of how the fins are being obtained i think is a bigger issue than the actual fining itself. Tho is there a point for you where tradition isnt worth the effect that your causing to the planet?
I mean, sure whaling and fining are tradition! you've done it for literally ever! What happens when you run out? --; oh well traditions over? at least it wasn't banned or regulated? At least if its regulated the cultural tradition can last much longer.
I just dont see the point in doing this with the backing of tradition till the bitter end, when we know that there actually is a chance to literally run out of the thing your killing. Even if it isn't in your lifetime its bound to happen. Tho i suppose no one on this earth actually cares about the world after they are dead... otherwise things would be better overall. Its all about the now.
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On October 27 2011 14:31 AutomatonOmega wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 14:29 Belial88 wrote:
T.O.P's post on the matter have been spot on.
It's a cultural tradition. It's extremely arrogant for people to ban a cultural tradition simply because it doesn't sit well with them. They could have easily banned the sale of shark fin from endangered sharks if it was really about the environment.
Just like whaling in japan. It's a tradition that has been around for thousands of years, for some other culture (westerners as the case is) to say it's inappropriate is just completely rude and arrogant. Westerners do a lot of gross things too in their culture, doesn't mean it should be banned (shaking hands, for example). Cuz every time a westerner shakes hands with someone, literally thousands of endangered animals are slain. The ripples of handshaking echo through the tapestry of ecology like the shockwaves from a mighty earthquake.
Endangered species slain, no one ever died cause of that, its regrettable animals go extinct, but there is no impact, loss of biodiversity maybe, but no apocalypse. Slaying creatures is as benign as shaking hands
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On October 27 2011 14:29 Belial88 wrote:
T.O.P's post on the matter have been spot on.
It's a cultural tradition. It's extremely arrogant for people to ban a cultural tradition simply because it doesn't sit well with them. They could have easily banned the sale of shark fin from endangered sharks if it was really about the environment.
Just like whaling in japan. It's a tradition that has been around for thousands of years, for some other culture (westerners as the case is) to say it's inappropriate is just completely rude and arrogant. Westerners do a lot of gross things too in their culture, doesn't mean it should be banned (shaking hands, for example).
i hope you are trolling otherwise i can't believe the amount of ignorance in your post.
japanese people have been overfishing whales, went as far as illegally fishing them in foreign countries and have been causing insane damage to the whale population.
it does not matter that it is part of their tradition, if it is something that is destroying the whale population it must be stopped.
animals go extinct every year because we hunt them without any restrictions and in an awful way.
if you think it's something to pick on a community (like many chinese posters have done in this topic) and fail to see the bigger picture i am really sorry for you.
as someone above me posted, within our life-time span we will see many animals we get for granted disappear from the world and go extinct.
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On October 27 2011 14:18 JieXian wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 02:44 IMSmooth wrote:On October 27 2011 02:29 JieXian wrote:On October 27 2011 02:12 blinken wrote:
This is what I love about North America: we let culture die a long time ago.
Culture being more important than animal welfare? What a joke.
You're upset you can't brutally kill sharks because your people have been eating shark fin soup for a long time... for reasons of culture...
Here's an idea, you might try and evolve out of ridiculous cultural norms. The western world does it exceedingly well, maybe China should try it.
Or you could continue your ignorance and brutally kill rare sharks for no other reason than your ancestors did it. You have a lot of cultures that may be considered as ridiculous cultural norms that you won't be ... "evolving" out of anytime soon. Just a short google : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:American_cultureHaving said that, I'll still be very happy to have shark fin's soup without the fin because the broth itself is really delicious and the fin adds nothing to the flavour but only serves a textural purpose and use a subsitute like we poor people do. I don't care what you'll call it, it's still delicious. Obviously you can see that my view is somewhat biased though. Great post : + Show Spoiler +On October 27 2011 01:09 Hikari wrote:
I am against this ban.
Have had sharkfin soup multiple times in the past, mostly in major celebrations. Not too sure about the no flavor thing, but it does change the texture of the soup to be somewhat gooey. I suppose you can replace that texture and taste from other sources, just as having fake beef made from soy (the ones these days are very hard to tell which is fake and which is real if you don't look into what you are eating in details).
I agree that cutting off the fins and throwing the shark back into the ocean is a waste.
However there is still legal hunting of sharks, and sharks do come with fins.
What I dislike about this whole sharkfin ban is that its more or less a political act. No, banning shark fin trades in various cities would NOT fix anything, but to give raise to "illegal trading" of "legally obtained" shark fin.
What needs to happen is for countries around the world to tighten sharking regulations: returning with a shipload of sharkfin without any "sharks" should not be able to walk around sharking bans some countries have.
To my knowledge, cruel harvesting of shark fins do not happen in Canada. Should we also ban fur trade just because parts of the world take fur in a cruel manner? How about making it a law to help the injured since people in China simply let that little girl suffer after getting rolled over by 2 cars? It is not a Toronto problem.
Why ban shark fin trading when the city should just ban the trade of tobaco? Cigarettes are known to cause nothing but trouble, and I see cigs to be far more inhumane (omg: people are suffering from cancer from 2nd hand smoking!) than shark fins.
Politicians are simply wasting time, putting up an act, pretending they just performed a good deed for the community while affecting many chinese eateries and medicine shops.
Take chickens for example: a lot of them are raised in small cages the size of a shoe box: that is not very humane right? Does that mean we should ban all chicken sale, including those raise in free ranges?
The problem is there but is approached in the completely wrong method. If I am an international shark fin trader I wouldn't give a shit about the ban, and maybe secretly rejoice since I can try to start and underground sharkfin trade to those in Toronto and possible establishing a monopoly. To top it off, as shark fin trading is illegal anyway, might as well as sell them the "real" illegal stuff from Africa instead of buying fins off Canadian fisheries. You literally just used Wikipedia and typed in american culture as your point AND source, I am literally in shock to what that is supposed to prove. Also, we do not waste a single part of chicken and we have found a sustainable way to keep that practice without endangering a species. This ban is NOT because it is inhumane. I am starting to get pissed because i made this point freaking 15 pages ago but you people dont bother to read the thread before posting. I'm literally in shock as to how you are literally oblivious to the fact that Americans have a culture. I literally thought that it was so blatantly obvious that I didn't need to spoonfeed you with details when you actually click the link and literally see the long list that awaits you. So let me put it in my own words. I hope I don't need to "sources" for this. Let's start with food since the topic is about food: Hot dogs, burgers, all the fast food chains, Pepsi, turkey (not exclusive to USA but it still is your culture), Rocky Mountain oysters are what I can think of. I'm sure there are a lot more. Show nested quote +The main problem with finning is throwing a finless shark back into the ocean. It seems more of an ethics case than overhunting. Still an issue but ethics seems to be the defining arguement. Also a key point, most people dont use shark meat , so 90%+ of the animal is wasted Ya and if you read the OP he literally bolded that part. Maybe being humane wasn't your arguement. But just so you know the topic is literally about Canadian Politicians banning shark's fin. I would guess most people are arguing against Toronto's reasonings so clearly stated in the OP.
NONE of those things you mentioned are unsustainable and endangering to a species. You just stated in the post i quoted that oh there are plenty of similar things in western culture. Then you straight up told everyone to google that shit.
I looked at the list. The list was fucking irrelevant to the ENTIRE discussion.
edit: you literally used literally 5 times in a paragraph. Come on now
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how is killing a shark and different from killing a pig. just because were "humiliating an animal that's suppose to be feared" its not any more wrong than slaughtering any other animal. sharkmeat wasted is justified by how expensive the dish is. nothing is a waste everything is represented by a price and each price is determined by supply and demand. you know people in africa kill each other to harvest a shiny rock called the fucken Diamond, so people in america would put it on their accessory to define their status. all this is justified by the huge price and demand. is that rational? no girls even find this shit romantic. the sick part is the african americans shows off their "blings" that is worth in blood of their people back in africa. ignorant, judgmental fucks these days
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On October 27 2011 14:25 saltywet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2011 14:19 Tektos wrote:On October 27 2011 14:15 saltywet wrote:On October 27 2011 14:12 Tektos wrote:On October 27 2011 14:05 saltywet wrote:On October 27 2011 13:39 IMSmooth wrote:saltywet wrote:
the price of shark fins is so high that the price can drop several times and it would still be worth poaching sharks for.
but by the time the price of shark fins have dropped 20$ the demand will skyrocket again.
the idea of saving sharks by banning the dining of shark fin soup is very unrealistic and you'd have to be a white person to not understand that fuck man, insert any other race or culture in there for white and people would absolutely trash you to pieces get your racist ass off of team liquid way to put things out of context, bold the whole line the next time. after all, its only been the white people whos supporting shark fin banning, and its the white people that thinks it will save sharks. and apparently white people that thinks that line is racist. its like saying that you'd have to be chinese to not understand the leniency of parenting in the average american household, and i dont. you white people clearly dont understand that the banning of shark fin soup is useless You clearly have no clue if you think banning it won't do anything. Its working pretty well with whaling, so I guess in us "white people" actually have previous examples, facts and evidence to back up our stance that banning it will help lessen the effects. What do you have as proof that bans on shark fins wont do anything to lessen the hunting of sharks? None, only conjecture. what about the fact that china, singapore and hong kong simply will never ban shark fin soup and that possibly 99% of chinese people who currently eat shark fin soup will not stop eating it just to save sharks? if the local chinese in canada can't eat it, they can just eat as much as they can the next time they visit china AND THEY WILL PROVIDE SOME EVIDENCE WHEN YOU USE STATISTICS. Oh wait, you have no evidence. Once again you're just using conjecture. i think this thread is a good enough sample size which shows that most chinese are even against the banning of shark fin soup. if you want i can conduct a survey the next time i go back to hong kong. sometimes it doesnt take solid evidence to logically make deductions when you're aware of the situation
There was already a newspaper report back in Singapore about a significant number of newly wed couples consciously avoiding shark fin's soup as one the courses during their wedding dinner, and opting for other soups as a replacement.
I wouldn't agree on a ban, but ideally paying customers ought to know how this product came about.
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Good. Happy for the sharks
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EPT
