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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On August 12 2013 21:39 QuanticHawk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 19:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 12 2013 08:40 sunprince wrote:On August 10 2013 23:45 BisuEver wrote:On August 10 2013 19:03 sunprince wrote:On August 10 2013 17:46 BisuEver wrote:If this is what one can expect I don't think I want a relationship. Ever. It's like sticking your penis in a blender. I would rather become gay or marry my hand if this is what I could expect. Just terrible people. If you are a shitty person the quality of relationship you can expect will be shitty. Because you have shitty people. Just-world fallacy. If anything, you've got it backwards: being a bad person increases the likelihood that you will be taking advantage of other people rather than the other way around, so if you are a "shitty" person you are less likely to date "shitty" people. No, I'm saying it will be a shitty relationship. There's 2 people in 1. It's like a prisoner's dilemma thing. Either you can be a worse person or they can be a better one. Otherwise you're both in for some shit. Your assumption here is that in any relationship, one partner rises to the level of the other and/or one partner sinks to the level of the other. You have absolutely no basis for that assumption, aside from possibly too many romance movies. There is also the assumption that having a new partner lined up before ending it with the previous one makes you a shitty person. It doesn't. ...if you guys had agreed on a monogamous relationship, that's pretty much the definition of shitty??
I don't see it that way. Having sex with someone else while wanting to stay in the relationship is shitty. Meeting someone new and discovering you have feelings for him/her and realizing you would rather be with that person is not. You simply cannot go through life without hurting peoples' feelings. Not without sacrificing your own needs, and there is no altruism when it comes to sex. You simply cannot expect people to sacrifice their sexual needs to spare you from heartache. You can take steps to lessen the pain, but in the end being dumped always sucks if you didnt want it to end.
You could argue that it all depends on when they have sex for the first time, and I would not necessarily disagree with that statement, but at the same time it isnt that simple. It hurts the person being left just as much regardless of if it happens right before or after the break up. The brain will still release the same amount of the chemicals that we experience as sexual jealousy.
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That's a whole lot of words to justify being a deceptive douchebag. It's really quite simple: If you consented to a monogamous relationship, feeling out someone while in still dating someone else is emotional cheating. If it progresses to anything physical, it's good old fashioned cheating. If you disagree, you don't believe in what most people agree to be a monogamous relationship, and you should tell your next gf/bf that.
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Northern Ireland25629 Posts
On August 12 2013 22:20 Killscreen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 21:39 QuanticHawk wrote:On August 12 2013 19:29 Killscreen wrote:On August 12 2013 08:40 sunprince wrote:On August 10 2013 23:45 BisuEver wrote:On August 10 2013 19:03 sunprince wrote:On August 10 2013 17:46 BisuEver wrote:If this is what one can expect I don't think I want a relationship. Ever. It's like sticking your penis in a blender. I would rather become gay or marry my hand if this is what I could expect. Just terrible people. If you are a shitty person the quality of relationship you can expect will be shitty. Because you have shitty people. Just-world fallacy. If anything, you've got it backwards: being a bad person increases the likelihood that you will be taking advantage of other people rather than the other way around, so if you are a "shitty" person you are less likely to date "shitty" people. No, I'm saying it will be a shitty relationship. There's 2 people in 1. It's like a prisoner's dilemma thing. Either you can be a worse person or they can be a better one. Otherwise you're both in for some shit. Your assumption here is that in any relationship, one partner rises to the level of the other and/or one partner sinks to the level of the other. You have absolutely no basis for that assumption, aside from possibly too many romance movies. There is also the assumption that having a new partner lined up before ending it with the previous one makes you a shitty person. It doesn't. ...if you guys had agreed on a monogamous relationship, that's pretty much the definition of shitty?? I don't see it that way. Having sex with someone else while wanting to stay in the relationship is shitty. Meeting someone new and discovering you have feelings for him/her and realizing you would rather be with that person is not. You simply cannot go through life without hurting peoples' feelings. Not without sacrificing your own needs, and there is no altruism when it comes to sex. You simply cannot expect people to sacrifice their sexual needs to spare you from heartache. You can take steps to lessen the pain, but in the end being dumped always sucks if you didnt want it to end. You could argue that it all depends on when they have sex for the first time, and I would not necessarily disagree with that statement, but at the same time it isnt that simple. It hurts the person being left just as much regardless of if it happens right before or after the break up. The brain will still release the same amount of the chemicals that we experience as sexual jealousy.
Depends, if you pretty much go straight from one girl into the arms of another it would tend to appear that you had been laying the emotional groundwork long before you actually broke it off with your partner.
Agreed that sacrificing your own personal happiness for others is somewhat overrated and unnecessary, but it's not a matter of sticking around with someone to avoid hurting them. If you're not feeling it, break it off before you start plotting to get your leg over with the next girl
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On August 12 2013 22:30 QuanticHawk wrote:
That's a whole lot of words to justify being a deceptive douchebag. It's really quite simple: If you consented to a monogamous relationship, feeling out someone while in still dating someone else is emotional cheating. If it progresses to anything physical, it's good old fashioned cheating. If you disagree, you don't believe in what most people agree to be a monogamous relationship, and you should tell your next gf/bf that.
How old are you?
I do not consider flirting to be cheating. Neither did my ex, and we were together and (afaik) faithful for 4 years. It is not natural for a person to be monogamous to the extent you are describing.
And no, I do not share your puritanical defenition on what a relationship is. My expectations are more realistic and based on what I have learned about sex and relationships in my 11 years of being sexually active, most of that time being single.
Here in Norway we are a bit more liberal about sex so it could be cultural also.
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Northern Ireland25629 Posts
On August 12 2013 22:40 Killscreen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 22:30 QuanticHawk wrote:
That's a whole lot of words to justify being a deceptive douchebag. It's really quite simple: If you consented to a monogamous relationship, feeling out someone while in still dating someone else is emotional cheating. If it progresses to anything physical, it's good old fashioned cheating. If you disagree, you don't believe in what most people agree to be a monogamous relationship, and you should tell your next gf/bf that.
How old are you? I do not consider flirting to be cheating. Neither did my ex, and we were together and (afaik) faithful for 4 years. It is not natural for a person to be monogamous to the extent you are describing. And no, I do not share your puritanical defenition on what a relationship is. My expectations are more realistic and based on what I have learned about sex and relationships in my 11 years of being sexually active, most of that time being single. Here in Norway we are a but more liberal about sex so it could be cultural also.
I don't believe that Hawk is referring to flirting, but properly testing the waters with another person.
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On August 12 2013 22:43 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2013 22:40 Killscreen wrote:On August 12 2013 22:30 QuanticHawk wrote:
That's a whole lot of words to justify being a deceptive douchebag. It's really quite simple: If you consented to a monogamous relationship, feeling out someone while in still dating someone else is emotional cheating. If it progresses to anything physical, it's good old fashioned cheating. If you disagree, you don't believe in what most people agree to be a monogamous relationship, and you should tell your next gf/bf that.
How old are you? I do not consider flirting to be cheating. Neither did my ex, and we were together and (afaik) faithful for 4 years. It is not natural for a person to be monogamous to the extent you are describing. And no, I do not share your puritanical defenition on what a relationship is. My expectations are more realistic and based on what I have learned about sex and relationships in my 11 years of being sexually active, most of that time being single. Here in Norway we are a but more liberal about sex so it could be cultural also. I don't believe that Hawk is referring to flirting, but properly testing the waters with another person.
That's a razor-thin distinction.
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I'm def referring to the latter. Flirting is you're out with your single guy friends and two girls come up to you and your buddy and you make small talk with them at the bar, bsing with the person at work who you know has a crush on you, etc. Testing the waters is actually getting that person's number and talking with them.
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On August 13 2013 00:11 QuanticHawk wrote:
I'm def referring to the latter. Flirting is you're out with your single guy friends and two girls come up to you and your buddy and you make small talk with them at the bar, bsing with the person at work who you know has a crush on you, etc. Testing the waters is actually getting that person's number and talking with them.
I agree intentionally testing the waters would be an unfaithful thing to do, but it isn't always the case that way. It's within reason that you just make a friend and you slowly realize how much you like the person while perhaps your previous relationship isn't going too well.
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if you intend to be faithful you of course should avoid flirting what the hell, this is common sense
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On August 13 2013 00:11 QuanticHawk wrote:
I'm def referring to the latter. Flirting is you're out with your single guy friends and two girls come up to you and your buddy and you make small talk with them at the bar, bsing with the person at work who you know has a crush on you, etc. Testing the waters is actually getting that person's number and talking with them.
Again, a thin and arbitrary distinction.
You put your foot down and lay down the law for the girls you date. I could give you some advice, but you are far too arrogant to take it, so I will just say good luck with that, son.
I checked TLPD, you are 19. You'll forgive me if I dont take dating advice from someone who was barely out of kinder garden when I started sleeping with women. You might also want to tone down your rhetoric and be more humble. Some people might mistake you for someone experienced who knows what he is talking about.
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Well aren't you the pot calling the kettle black. If anything, you come across as far more arrogant in this conversation than Hawk ever did. You need to drop the kindergarten and 'son' comments if you want people to take you seriously at all.
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On August 13 2013 00:46 Mikau wrote:
Well aren't you the pot calling the kettle black. If anything, you come across as far more arrogant in this conversation than Hawk ever did. You need to drop the kindergarten and 'son' comments if you want people to take you seriously at all.
I happen to be an extremely humble individual, which is hard when you are as handsome and well hung as I am!
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looooool
do what you want, but don't balk about when people point out the hypocrisy of saying it is ok to test the waters in a monogamous relationship.
On August 13 2013 00:21 Najda wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 00:11 QuanticHawk wrote:
I'm def referring to the latter. Flirting is you're out with your single guy friends and two girls come up to you and your buddy and you make small talk with them at the bar, bsing with the person at work who you know has a crush on you, etc. Testing the waters is actually getting that person's number and talking with them. I agree intentionally testing the waters would be an unfaithful thing to do, but it isn't always the case that way. It's within reason that you just make a friend and you slowly realize how much you like the person while perhaps your previous relationship isn't going too well.
That's def more of a gray area. However, those things don't just happen over night. If your conversations start getting beyond friendly or you start developing a crush on a friend while you are dating someone else, you either need to majorly curtail that friendship, if not cut it off completely. Or, if you aren't happy in your current relationship, you should just end it asap. I never understood people who hopped from one relationship to another though.
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On August 13 2013 00:49 Killscreen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 00:46 Mikau wrote:
Well aren't you the pot calling the kettle black. If anything, you come across as far more arrogant in this conversation than Hawk ever did. You need to drop the kindergarten and 'son' comments if you want people to take you seriously at all. I happen to be an extremely humble individual, which is hard when you are as handsome and well hung as I am!
My best quality is my modesty.
I know where you're coming from though, Norwegian girls are cute, super nice, and total freaks on vacation. I'd probably be a monkey swinging from branch to branch as well, except no official relationships.
Now for once I actually have some input for this thread...
I go to school 3 hours away from my hometown but am back every summer. Well this summer I landed a new gf, and things are going really well so far. She just got accepted to the university I'm at so she'll be moving down for the school year as well. We talked about living together vs living separate and it seems to make more sense if we lived together. If we ever broke up, she's already agreed to break the lease and she'd be the one moving out at the end of the semester. The caveat is we've only been together for a month so we will be dating for 2 months once she moves down.
Is there any major downside to this?
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On August 13 2013 00:49 Killscreen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 00:46 Mikau wrote:
Well aren't you the pot calling the kettle black. If anything, you come across as far more arrogant in this conversation than Hawk ever did. You need to drop the kindergarten and 'son' comments if you want people to take you seriously at all. I happen to be an extremely humble individual, which is hard when you are as handsome and well hung as I am!
I think you misunderstand the meaning of the word humble -.-
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On August 13 2013 01:14 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 00:49 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 00:46 Mikau wrote:
Well aren't you the pot calling the kettle black. If anything, you come across as far more arrogant in this conversation than Hawk ever did. You need to drop the kindergarten and 'son' comments if you want people to take you seriously at all. I happen to be an extremely humble individual, which is hard when you are as handsome and well hung as I am! My best quality is my modesty. I know where you're coming from though, Norwegian girls are cute, super nice, and total freaks on vacation. I'd probably be a monkey swinging from branch to branch as well, except no official relationships. Now for once I actually have some input for this thread... I go to school 3 hours away from my hometown but am back every summer. Well this summer I landed a new gf, and things are going really well so far. She just got accepted to the university I'm at so she'll be moving down for the school year as well. We talked about living together vs living separate and it seems to make more sense if we lived together. If we ever broke up, she's already agreed to break the lease and she'd be the one moving out at the end of the semester. The caveat is we've only been together for a month so we will be dating for 2 months once she moves down. Is there any major downside to this?
It's a gamble really, gambling usually isn't recommended but who am I to tell people not to gamble
if you are generally an easy person to live with then you should be fine... if you can't handle different people having different habits then it's more likely to fuck up
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On August 13 2013 01:14 chadissilent wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 00:49 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 00:46 Mikau wrote:
Well aren't you the pot calling the kettle black. If anything, you come across as far more arrogant in this conversation than Hawk ever did. You need to drop the kindergarten and 'son' comments if you want people to take you seriously at all. I happen to be an extremely humble individual, which is hard when you are as handsome and well hung as I am! My best quality is my modesty. I know where you're coming from though, Norwegian girls are cute, super nice, and total freaks on vacation. I'd probably be a monkey swinging from branch to branch as well, except no official relationships. Now for once I actually have some input for this thread... I go to school 3 hours away from my hometown but am back every summer. Well this summer I landed a new gf, and things are going really well so far. She just got accepted to the university I'm at so she'll be moving down for the school year as well. We talked about living together vs living separate and it seems to make more sense if we lived together. If we ever broke up, she's already agreed to break the lease and she'd be the one moving out at the end of the semester. The caveat is we've only been together for a month so we will be dating for 2 months once she moves down. Is there any major downside to this?
Living together that early is generally the quickest way to destroy a relationship that might otherwise be good. You're gonna go from seeing her a few times a week to seeing her every single day. And you're in college so it isn't like you guys can afford a big enough place that you'll have multiple rooms so you are not up each other's ass. Even if you were a baller nerd who could afford a sweet pad, it would still be nutty to do.
Think of that agreement as lip service anyway, especially if her name is on the lease. You won't know how serious it is unless that comes to pass. Even if she is not on the lease, depending where you are, she probably has rights that can give her a month's notice, or all sorts of other shit (ianal, you need to look this up). Say you break up middle of the semester, unless she was looking already, she's gonna find a new place in a few days? Even two weeks is a very short window to find a place, esp if she needs roommates. She probably can't afford a place by herself. Then what??
Learn to appreciate and love each other as individuals first. Two months really isn't long at all. No need to rush it, even if financially it makes sense
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On August 13 2013 01:27 QuanticHawk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 01:14 chadissilent wrote:On August 13 2013 00:49 Killscreen wrote:On August 13 2013 00:46 Mikau wrote:
Well aren't you the pot calling the kettle black. If anything, you come across as far more arrogant in this conversation than Hawk ever did. You need to drop the kindergarten and 'son' comments if you want people to take you seriously at all. I happen to be an extremely humble individual, which is hard when you are as handsome and well hung as I am! My best quality is my modesty. I know where you're coming from though, Norwegian girls are cute, super nice, and total freaks on vacation. I'd probably be a monkey swinging from branch to branch as well, except no official relationships. Now for once I actually have some input for this thread... I go to school 3 hours away from my hometown but am back every summer. Well this summer I landed a new gf, and things are going really well so far. She just got accepted to the university I'm at so she'll be moving down for the school year as well. We talked about living together vs living separate and it seems to make more sense if we lived together. If we ever broke up, she's already agreed to break the lease and she'd be the one moving out at the end of the semester. The caveat is we've only been together for a month so we will be dating for 2 months once she moves down. Is there any major downside to this? Living together that early is generally the quickest way to destroy a relationship that might otherwise be good. You're gonna go from seeing her a few times a week to seeing her every single day. And you're in college so it isn't like you guys can afford a big enough place that you'll have multiple rooms so you are not up each other's ass. Even if you were a baller nerd who could afford a sweet pad, it would still be nutty to do.
I'll break this down in a few pieces to address every concern.
First, I'm not a typical college student. I'm almost done my second full degree and engineering summer jobs pay pretty well in Canada. I've had two longterm relationships (3+ years each) so I know what it's like past the initial lovey dovey phase. We've been friends for a year so it's not like I just met her or anything.
Think of that agreement as lip service anyway, especially if her name is on the lease. You won't know how serious it is unless that comes to pass. Even if she is not on the lease, depending where you are, she probably has rights that can give her a month's notice, or all sorts of other shit (ianal, you need to look this up). Say you break up middle of the semester, unless she was looking already, she's gonna find a new place in a few days? Even two weeks is a very short window to find a place, esp if she needs roommates. She probably can't afford a place by herself. Then what??
We wouldn't be getting it together. I live in a house with 2 other roommates, one of them is moving out in Sept. She would just be taking his place, his room and paying that rent to the landlord. I am not financially responsible for any of that, we all pay the landlord directly since our rents are different (I have a master bedroom with ensuite and walk-in closet so mines a bit more).
There's going to be a third person there regardless, it's just a matter if its going to be her or someone my landlord chooses.
Learn to appreciate and love each other as individuals first. Two months really isn't long at all. No need to rush it, even if financially it makes sense
See the friends part from the first section.
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Ok yeah that does make it a little different. I still would say no though. Friendship is still way different than dating. You get a filtered version of what her dating life was like in the past from her perspective, so even if she's telling you 'this is what i am like in relationships' you only know it second hand. If this was like a childhood friend you've known for 10+ years and just started dating, maybe that would be different, but even then i dont care for it. Seeing each other that frequently when you first start dating is a recipe for a burnout almost every single time.
The separate rooms thing is better, but I still think it would be better just to let it go organically and revisit living together a year from now when your lease/hers is up. Personally, I view living together with a gf as something you do to kinda further vett your thoughts about whether or not you should get engaged. I wouldn't do it until I had a really solid feeling that the relationship had potential for marriage, and there's no way I'd have that good of a handle on things til at least around a year.
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Yeah, the burnout thing concerns me too. I'll speak with her about it this weekend once I've had a chance to ponder done some more.
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EPT
