|
All racist comments will result in a ban. Think well before posting. |
On September 27 2011 23:34 Hypertension wrote:I had to check out the thread that scared off the mighty banhammer of Nyovne. I am so proud to be an American right now, where anyone calling another race genetically or culturally inferior would rightly be ridiculed. If you can't judge people independently based on their actions, and instead have to tar the entire group because "90% of them are like this", then you are being racist. Is this sentiment against the Gypsies really popular and well tolerated in Europe? Calling gypsies a problem IS NOT RACISM FOR GOD'S SAKE. I have no fucking clue about whether gypsies are a problem, but GYPSIES ARE NOT A RACE. It's a culture. And apparently the culture seems to be a problem according to the posters in this thread that actually live in those countries together with the gypsies. Don't act like a culture is some sort of sacred property and defiling it is the same as practicing Nazism. Those comparisons are DISGUSTING.
As I've said before, I know just about nothing about gypsies, but as an outsider I'd rather believe someone who actually lives in Eastern Europe than someone equating disliking the gypsy culture with Nazism.
If it is true what these people say and gypsies steal, don't send their children to school and live of welfare support without showing any signs of trying to get work or education, then they are a problem. I am SURE that there are loads of gypsies that do not fit that description, but it seems like those are in the minority (judging from anecdotes from people in here). And OF COURSE the solution shouldn't be 'throw all gypsies in jail', it should be something like "if you don't send your children to school you go to jail".
|
On September 27 2011 23:12 speedphlux wrote:
@Inex : Dude, I'm from Pazardjik ... Lived for 12 years in the middle of one of the ghettos here along side gypsies. I know that there are people within their community who are trying to integrate themselves, but often face racism. But if there is a will, there is a way. I know a gypsy heart surgeon, a gypsy dentist, a gypsy lawyer, a gypsy taxi company owner and a gypsy fashion designer. They are capable people. At least those that are willing.
How many criminals/"bad gypsies" you know for each "normal" one. I somehow think it's closer to 5:1 than 1:1, and hell, even 1:1 would fucking astronomical.
What you just said is just as retarded as me telling you that all white people are racists just because I am. They're just the minority, what really matters is the majority.
|
On September 27 2011 23:36 TheFrankOne wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 23:21 KwarK wrote:On September 27 2011 22:07 niteReloaded wrote:
Ugh, I had no idea so many countries have this problem.
It's present in Croatia too, altho I'd say they're pretty peaceful here; I can't really remember a real incident.
They do beg for money on crossroads etc, treat their kids poorly, always look for metals etc, but they never did anything bad to me, and I actually play basketball with some of them on the local playground.
However, responding to the problems that do occur, the only solution would be to end the mentality that their culture seems to have no matter which country they live in.
One realistic way to do it would be to make them a country. Then they'll realize that they don't have anyone to leech from and they will possibly grow into fully functional human beings.
The other, cruel way would be to take away their kids, based on the poor treatment, and give them for adoption to normal couples. Then the gypsie 'culture' dies, but no human is killed. This is a form of ethnic cleansing that was practiced by the Australian Government in an attempt to wipe out the Aborigines. It's something that ended pretty badly for them and I don't think anyone wants to try it again quite yet. Same story with Native Americans too, shit went bad for the kids who weren't accepted by either group. Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 22:31 m00nchile wrote:On September 27 2011 22:23 AcuWill wrote:
Just curious how a similar thread made by a US citizen about black people would go?
You could simply exchange black for gypsy in the majority of statements in this thread and you wouldn't miss a beat.
Having said that, marginalizing an entire group of people based on the actions of a few (or even a majority) is always wrong. How many black people are gangbangers, thieves and criminals? How many are well adjusted people that do no harm to their surroundings? If you'd look at the statistics, I'd wager they are no better or worse than white people, or most minorities. A gypsy living in an apartment he bought/pays rent for, goes to work and send his children to school is an exception. That's the difference. As we said, it's not about race, it's the lifestyle they choose and drag their children along with them. Actually, a lot of people in America who "aren't racist" do sound an awful lot like you, they are as defensive too. "Just the gangbangers, theives and criminals, ya know, most of 'em." It doesn't matter if you think your opinion is factual, to me you sound like a hick from the south.
Oh wow, way to twist my words. First of all, I'm from Slovenia. Second of all, I what I said is that criminals should be prosecuted and that the percentage of black people involved in crime must be ridiculosly low, no better or worse than white people or other minorities. I'm saying it's racism to hate based on race. Gypsy people get a lot of help that they refuse to accept, don't send their children to school, live in squalor and live off of begging and stealing. Judging by your reading comprehension I'm guessing you're the hick. Not nice to get ad hom attacks is it.
|
On September 27 2011 23:45 Fenrax wrote:
Many truths about race and demography are inconvenient. If reality is not like it should be in theory then the theory is wrong and not the reality.
Of course it is wrong to assume that stereotypes are never based on statistical facts. That doesn't mean that categorizing people by their heritage is ok, on the contrary, it will only aggravate already existing problems.
Saying racism has nothing to do with this discussion is obviously absurd, despite a lot of intelligent people in this thread stating just that. As soon as individuals are judged based on their cultural and ethnical background, which I am sure happens to gypsies in europe a lot, it is racism.
It must be very hard to escape a way of life that you have been brought up with if outsiders immediately identify you with it.
|
A) Yes, they are Roma- Gypsy is a bigoted term by association with thievery and laziness.
B) Most posts sound so terribly like they are suggesting the same past schemes of threatening to withhold welfare until Roma submit to forced sterilization without consent or knowledge of what is actually being done.
It's been a thousand years of this shit.
|
On September 27 2011 23:35 ilovelings wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 23:34 Hypertension wrote:I had to check out the thread that scared off the mighty banhammer of Nyovne. I am so proud to be an American right now, where anyone calling another race genetically or culturally inferior would rightly be ridiculed. If you can't judge people independently based on their actions, and instead have to tar the entire group because "90% of them are like this", then you are being racist. Is this sentiment against the Gypsies really popular and well tolerated in Europe? read this Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 23:30 ilovelings wrote:
I live in a city packed with migrants and the only ones I had problems with were the gypsies.
Do you honestly expect me to believe you've never had a problem with anyone who was not a gypsy? You are showing classic confirmation bias, remembering only specific incidents. When someone of your own race mistreats you, or a gypsy deals with you honorably you brush it off as "an exception"
|
On September 27 2011 23:34 Hypertension wrote:I had to check out the thread that scared off the mighty banhammer of Nyovne. I am so proud to be an American right now, where anyone calling another race genetically or culturally inferior would rightly be ridiculed. If you can't judge people independently based on their actions, and instead have to tar the entire group because "90% of them are like this", then you are being racist. Is this sentiment against the Gypsies really popular and well tolerated in Europe?
Don't be proud to be an American, be THANKFUL. You live in a different world where there is nothing that comes even close to comparing with the gypsy culture. In this case you'd be ridiculed for having such naive ideas in your head.
|
On September 27 2011 23:25 vanhio wrote:
But when some of the gypsies refuse to work and are criminals, that isn't racism, that is being USELESS to society.
90% of them refuse to work and the only thing they do is stealing. People who wants only privilegs and no responsibilities are plague to society. Most of them are not paying their bills and still gets water and electricity. Free water and electricity sounds cool right ? Who do you think pays for all of this ? Who do you think pays child support to every 15 years old gipsy girl with 3 childrens ? People here are sick and tired of this SHIT !
Aaaaaaand here we go again. What the FUCK do you know about how many gypsies that won't work? Where do you get your info? Probably from what you believe and have experienced, and various influences such as media and/or friends.
You are making assumptions based on NOTHIN except personal experience and that is not enough to justify expelling a large number of humans, as some of you here sometimes forget the gypsies are.
|
On September 28 2011 00:03 craz3d wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 23:34 Hypertension wrote:I had to check out the thread that scared off the mighty banhammer of Nyovne. I am so proud to be an American right now, where anyone calling another race genetically or culturally inferior would rightly be ridiculed. If you can't judge people independently based on their actions, and instead have to tar the entire group because "90% of them are like this", then you are being racist. Is this sentiment against the Gypsies really popular and well tolerated in Europe? Don't be proud to be an American, be THANKFUL. You live in a different world where there is nothing that comes even close to comparing with the gypsy culture. In this case you'd be ridiculed for having such naive ideas in your head.
Yes because we've never committed a genocide or have an enormous and prevalent issue of immigrants living at the bottom of the poverty line aggravated by many abusing our welfare programs.
Just because we aren't as old doesn't mean we're not all growed up with our own shitty problems just like you.
|
On September 27 2011 23:56 Thorakh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 23:34 Hypertension wrote:I had to check out the thread that scared off the mighty banhammer of Nyovne. I am so proud to be an American right now, where anyone calling another race genetically or culturally inferior would rightly be ridiculed. If you can't judge people independently based on their actions, and instead have to tar the entire group because "90% of them are like this", then you are being racist. Is this sentiment against the Gypsies really popular and well tolerated in Europe? Calling gypsies a problem IS NOT RACISM FOR GOD'S SAKE. I have no fucking clue about whether gypsies are a problem, but GYPSIES ARE NOT A RACE. It's a culture. And apparently the culture seems to be a problem according to the posters in this thread that actually live in those countries together with the gypsies. Don't act like a culture is some sort of sacred property and defiling it is the same as practicing Nazism. Those comparisons are DISGUSTING. As I've said before, I know just about nothing about gypsies, but as an outsider I'd rather believe someone who actually lives in Eastern Europe than someone equating disliking the gypsy culture with Nazism. If it is true what these people say and gypsies steal, don't send their children to school and live of welfare support without showing any signs of trying to get work or education, then they are a problem. I am SURE that there are loads of gypsies that do not fit that description, but it seems like those are in the minority (judging from anecdotes from people in here). And OF COURSE the solution shouldn't be 'throw all gypsies in jail', it should be something like "if you don't send your children to school you go to jail".
Then why bring the fact that they are gypsies into it at all?
|
To all ppl talking without knowing gypsies , i hope something bad happens to you (to say it nicely) , ALL gipsies are like that , A-L-L of them , i repeat to all you hypocrites thinking you know jack shit , A-L-L of them are like that , I live in Romania and in all my life i have N-E-V-E-R seen a gipsy who doesn't steal as much as he can , dmg the country and such.
I wish they would all get deported back to India.
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On September 28 2011 00:03 craz3d wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 23:34 Hypertension wrote:I had to check out the thread that scared off the mighty banhammer of Nyovne. I am so proud to be an American right now, where anyone calling another race genetically or culturally inferior would rightly be ridiculed. If you can't judge people independently based on their actions, and instead have to tar the entire group because "90% of them are like this", then you are being racist. Is this sentiment against the Gypsies really popular and well tolerated in Europe? Don't be proud to be an American, be THANKFUL. You live in a different world where there is nothing that comes even close to comparing with the gypsy culture. In this case you'd be ridiculed for having such naive ideas in your head.
America has tons of racially grouped gangs - the Mafia, the Bloods, the Crips, these fun guys who make your gypsies look pretty weak. We also have plenty of racists and plenty of people willing to ridicule people like me for their naivety. I just disagree with you and think we should should judge people differently.
|
On September 27 2011 23:58 Mammel wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 23:12 speedphlux wrote:
@Inex : Dude, I'm from Pazardjik ... Lived for 12 years in the middle of one of the ghettos here along side gypsies. I know that there are people within their community who are trying to integrate themselves, but often face racism. But if there is a will, there is a way. I know a gypsy heart surgeon, a gypsy dentist, a gypsy lawyer, a gypsy taxi company owner and a gypsy fashion designer. They are capable people. At least those that are willing.
How many criminals/"bad gypsies" you know for each "normal" one. I somehow think it's closer to 5:1 than 1:1, and hell, even 1:1 would fucking astronomical. What you just said is just as retarded as me telling you that all white people are racists just because I am. They're just the minority, what really matters is the majority.
Nah, the actual ratio would be something like 20:1, but so what ?
The main topic of this tread was the so called riots in Bulgaria and the majority of TL'ers turned this into "the gypsy problem" tread.
And don't call me a retard. You can't judge by the majority coz we're all individuals. Same thing I don't think Finns are douchebags even thou the majority of the Finns I know are ones. The ratio here should be something like 16:0, but oh well - whatever. It's the individual's fault that the problem in Bulgaria happened. It's individuals that are going to end up behind bars in the end. Not the majority. Does that are trying to turn this into a ethnical or racial problem are gonna be punished in the end. By fines, by jail time, by whatever.
I don't like it when people just jump the band wagon and start posting without reading a bit of info on the matter they're discussing. Disgusting !
|
On September 27 2011 21:02 FireEagle wrote:
What do you think about the violences in Bulgaria and the gypsy problem in Europe in general?
In general, I think that 'gypsy's' should be treated as any other citizen of whatever nationality they belong to, and given no special rights or privileges.
As for the problem ... I am just glad it's not really a big part of my country.
Also, it's obviously hate crime.
|
On September 27 2011 23:34 Hypertension wrote:I had to check out the thread that scared off the mighty banhammer of Nyovne. I am so proud to be an American right now, where anyone calling another race genetically or culturally inferior would rightly be ridiculed. If you can't judge people independently based on their actions, and instead have to tar the entire group because "90% of them are like this", then you are being racist. Is this sentiment against the Gypsies really popular and well tolerated in Europe?
I don't think there's anything for you to feel proud about, and the apposition of the US and Europe is just useless. I don't think the US is significantly more tolerant than any other western country. Throwing around the word 'racist' to put yourself above other people is pointless as well. It comes across as "you're racist, I'm not. This argument is over."
You need to consider the actual problems. Gypsies, by definition, live an archaic lifestyle. They are usually home shooled, rarely mingle with the native communities, and don't see any problem with settling down on empty land and not paying tax. It's because of these social conditions, and not any racial issue, that they are more likely to be a drain on society.
In the UK we have had problems where it's been essentially impossible to deal with Gypsies. They settle on empty land, and when the government tries to move them on they put up a fight. It's not easy to deal with whole communities in this way. They feel like the victims, but in reality they have no inherent right to live their lifestyle if they're not going to put the money back into the economy to support it.
|
You can argue percentages all you like but the fact is that "travelling peoples" are, by and large, bad for a country. In general, the culture is a negative influence on wherever it is. Anyone who doesn't recognise that there is a hugely significant criminal element way above the norm in the culture is simply wilfully ignorant, as is someone who doesn't recognise the strain they can put on amenities through their lifestyle. It is not something that should be supported in any way as far as I'm concerned, but sadly it is.
That doesn't mean you should hate them or pretend they're all terrible people, of course. That sort of attitude just obscures the genuine problem.
|
On September 28 2011 00:11 RTudoRR wrote:
To all ppl talking without knowing gypsies , i hope something bad happens to you (to say it nicely) , ALL gipsies are like that , A-L-L of them , i repeat to all you hypocrites thinking you know jack shit , A-L-L of them are like that , I live in Romania and in all my life i have N-E-V-E-R seen a gipsy who doesn't steal as much as he can , dmg the country and such.
I wish they would all get deported back to India.
I'm repeating myself so much I should just save this text and copy-paste it. People call the ones living in areas with a gypsy problem racist and primitive. These people get a ton of help and are given plenty of oportunities to earn their keep, get decent housing and educate their children. They don't accept the gifts other people work hard for. They get away with crimes other people go to jail for. Don't spout righteous nonsense if you don't know about the situation.
|
On September 28 2011 00:12 Hypertension wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2011 00:03 craz3d wrote:On September 27 2011 23:34 Hypertension wrote:I had to check out the thread that scared off the mighty banhammer of Nyovne. I am so proud to be an American right now, where anyone calling another race genetically or culturally inferior would rightly be ridiculed. If you can't judge people independently based on their actions, and instead have to tar the entire group because "90% of them are like this", then you are being racist. Is this sentiment against the Gypsies really popular and well tolerated in Europe? Don't be proud to be an American, be THANKFUL. You live in a different world where there is nothing that comes even close to comparing with the gypsy culture. In this case you'd be ridiculed for having such naive ideas in your head. America has tons of racially grouped gangs - the Mafia, the Bloods, the Crips, these fun guys who make your gypsies look pretty weak. We also have plenty of racists and plenty of people willing to ridicule people like me for their naivety. I just disagree with you and think we should should judge people differently.
well... to be honest, if youd know anything about gypsys youd see these "bloods crips whoever" people like kids playing gangster... i could link many newspots from ones where 80+ yr old married couple been robbed than raped and beaten to death in their own home to how a gypsy woman took drugs while being pregnant to make the children born with retardation (more money from the govt.)
you think pickpocketing is the problem here? the problem is bestiality which is somewhat attached to the culture to a degree and have acceptance if performed in some cases.
i think it wouldnt matter, as you alrady have your opinion which been forged out of thin air with the intention of putting yourself morally above than the commie eastern euros...
|
The problem isn't the race, it's the way of life. there have been many successfull people from Gypsy background: Mircea Lucescu (Shaktar Donetsk manager, currently top 10 coach in Europe), his son, Razvan Lucescu, Romania's former football coach, Banel Niculita, Saint Ettiene midfielder, artsists who play along Gorna Bregovici, etc
There are people of that origin who have adapted to society and are successfull, in arts or in sports. Nobody has any hate towards them. The problem is about the part of them who doesn't want to adapt, not a race in general.
Secondly, the big difference in communism was that the communist party was trying to raise the population, so they recieved medals and a big wellfare, and a medal from the state for having 10+ childred. This is how their mentallity has evolved.
As for a separate state, that was tried in WW2, in the region of Transnistria(now a separatist region from Republic of Moldavia), but that was occupied by the Soviet Army. Back then, Romania had the same kind of leadership as Finland: technocrat field marshall head of state.
From my personal experience, I was a victim of a break-in. When I was at home, I heard someone forcing the door of my house. I was at home, and I tried to stall and call the olice. They broke one lock, forced the second, I put the chain on the door to stalle even more, and when thef finally broke both locks only the chain held the door, they opened it as much as the chain permitted. The two robbers tried to taake off the chain, I hid back of the door, and when the first of them put his hand inside to take off the chain, I hit his hand with a long katana sword, and forced them to run away. That saved my life. Police haven't found them since. I was 15 at that time. My bike has been stolen once, a friend had 2 bikes stolen, and one of them was found. All of them were gypsies.
Also, another friend had his house broken into by them 3 times, each time the perpetrators were caught on camera, but, still, police didn't do anything.
So the hae isn't about a race, it's about a way of life against society.
|
On September 27 2011 23:55 Legatus Lanius wrote:
so do french people consider gypsies more trouble and less desirable than, say, arab muslim immigrants?
Gypsies are much less numerous, and far less intrusive, so it's hard to compare. Gypsies don't hang the whole day in shopping malls, or take a lot of public transportation. Also you can't really say arab muslim immigrants are a problem, a vast majority of arabs and muslims are second or third generations.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
