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On August 28 2011 01:32 jax1492 wrote:
I think all the topics she brings up are valid, but I think she really is just is missing the point .... Korea is not America. just because double eyelids seem so desired and seems odd to her we have the our standards of beauty in the usa also that may seem weird in Korea. this sounds harsh but it seems like she wants to be Korean and is now just trying to pick everything she sees wrong ... i dont think i will watch this .... i call this another case of Korea is awesome all i know is kpop and then she was surprised it wasn't like a kpop video.
p.s. i like kpop
A documentary's purpose is to investigate some aspect of reality, in this case Korean society. I saw no hatred against the culture or society at all.
A fair investigation is much more interesting and rewarding than just blaming everything on cultural differences, saying "they're just different" and moving on.
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these girls are only in highschool but why do the vast majority need glasses?
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On August 28 2011 04:16 zimz wrote:
these girls are only in highschool but why do the vast majority need glasses?
they pound books 16hours, what do you think?
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On August 28 2011 03:57 Quesadilla wrote:
Everything I saw in this documentary is true. Really looking forward to the finished product so more people can understand.
I'd really like to hear more input from a SK citizen--I think the video raises some big, difficult topics, topics that the girl making/producing the video treats in a fairly ethnocentric way while failing to uncover the source of the problems.
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1019 Posts
On August 27 2011 23:04 KT s0ng wrote:
It is obvious that I am talking about my experience in which everything I say is true.
Well there we go. The point is that people state their opinions as facts all the time in online forums, but you are taking it to a whole new level.
On August 28 2011 04:27 homeless_guy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 03:57 Quesadilla wrote:
Everything I saw in this documentary is true. Really looking forward to the finished product so more people can understand. I'd really like to hear more input from a SK citizen--I think the video raises some big, difficult topics, topics that the girl making/producing the video treats in a fairly ethnocentric way while failing to uncover the source of the problems.
the source of the problem is the Korean culture itself. Korean society collectively believes in things like hard work, becoming rich, becoming smart, being good at math and english, getting a good job, etc. Combine this with a tremendous number of people competing for limited spaces in college and employment and this is what you get. This is a very difficult problem to fix - you can't force parents to stop pushing their kids, you can't force students from overworking themselves, you can't force college admissions to become easier (how will they pick students if they lower minimum grades when everyone applying is close to perfect score?). Honestly there isn't much anything that anyone can do.
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On August 28 2011 04:16 zimz wrote:
these girls are only in highschool but why do the vast majority need glasses?
Some people even use glasses just because it's a new trend, especially those "hipster glasses". I don't know whats the REAL case though. Might be what "Anch" said.
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Awesome intro. I am definitely going to donate. Can't wait to see more. Everyone should check it out. Worth the 18 minutes it took to watch the introduction on what it is about.
Korea is a interesting culture, both North and South. I want to go one day in the near future. This will give me a glimpse into it. Thanks OP.
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On August 28 2011 04:30 white_horse wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2011 23:04 KT s0ng wrote:
It is obvious that I am talking about my experience in which everything I say is true. Well there we go. The point is that people state their opinions as facts all the time in online forums, but you are taking it to a whole new level. Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 04:27 homeless_guy wrote:On August 28 2011 03:57 Quesadilla wrote:
Everything I saw in this documentary is true. Really looking forward to the finished product so more people can understand. I'd really like to hear more input from a SK citizen--I think the video raises some big, difficult topics, topics that the girl making/producing the video treats in a fairly ethnocentric way while failing to uncover the source of the problems. the source of the problem is the Korean culture itself. Korean society collectively believes in things like hard work, becoming rich, becoming smart, being good at math and english, getting a good job, etc. Combine this with a tremendous number of people competing for limited spaces in college and employment and this is what you get. This is a very difficult problem to fix - you can't force parents to stop pushing their kids, you can't force students from overworking themselves, you can't force college admissions to become easier (how will they pick students if they lower minimum grades when everyone applying is close to perfect score?). Honestly there isn't much anything that anyone can do.
Did the import of American Culture after the Korean war have as much impact as it seems to? (especially re: beauty standards)?
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oook...so how did Polt.prime get into the top university in korea and win a gsl champion and still be in code S?? man...this guy deserves some kind of genius award...
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High school/junior high school in Korea is very different from Western ones in that over here in North America, you are encouraged to become an all-rounder.
Ie. Playing for school team (athletics) while participating in clubs (hobby oriented, volunteering, etc) while keeping up a good grade. Of course, this is a very very ideal (IB league) type of student, but the point I'm stressing is all-rounder.
In Korea, the level of competition is so high (esp. academically) that it's either u pick academics or you don't. Ie. Someone taking sports very seriously in their junior high/high school years are gonna have to give up on their academics.
Hope that sheds some new light of understanding for some people.
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So it's sort of like they choose one thing to excel at rather than be good at many things.
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One part of the video that resonated with me because I've made that same observation before is that the problem in Korea is that the definition of beauty is narrower than anywhere else.
Ask 10 American guys what his ideal type of girl looks like, you probably get 10 different answers. Even looking at our celebrities, there's very wide variety there: Keira Knightley looks different from Beyonce looks different from Scarlet Johansson, and yet they're all considered beautiful and girls of most body types have a celebrity to look up to. In my case, I'm somewhat apple-shaped -- I can look up to Reese Witherspoon, since she's an example of a naturally apple-shaped woman making the best of her looks and being successful with them.
Ask 10 Korean guys, and you probably only get one: white skin, small face, big eyes, skinny body, and long legs. And this standardization of beauty is really the core issue here, and what makes Korea's obsession with beauty more problematic than other countries'.
It probably can be traced back to Korea's belief in homogeneity. I think in their belief in the sameness of the Korean race, they keep forgetting that not every Korean can look the same. Just like any other people in the world, some Koreans are shorter and some are taller, some fatter and some thinner, some with smaller and some with bigger eyes.
The fact that the definition of beauty is so much smaller in Korea just results in much of the population being discriminated again where in other countries of the world, the comparatively wider and more diverse acceptance of beauty allows for more girls to accept themselves the way they are without having to think they must all look like Kim Tae Hee.
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I think I read somewhere that we get a ton of subconcious input from the eyes as they are a big part of body language and so on, might be related.
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On August 28 2011 04:10 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 02:55 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On August 28 2011 02:37 Cyberspace1 wrote:On August 28 2011 02:31 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On August 28 2011 01:32 jax1492 wrote:
I think all the topics she brings up are valid, but I think she really is just is missing the point .... Korea is not America. just because double eyelids seem so desired and seems odd to her we have the our standards of beauty in the usa also that may seem weird in Korea. this sounds harsh but it seems like she wants to be Korean and is now just trying to pick everything she sees wrong ... i dont think i will watch this .... i call this another case of Korea is awesome all i know is kpop and then she was surprised it wasn't like a kpop video.
p.s. i like kpop Yea, like the OP said, she seems to be pushing Western ideals into a completely different culture. I and many of my friends who went to highschool in Korea don't really see the studying as an issue. The atmosphere of pressure motivates you to work harder than you thought you could and it also clearly separates the ones who REALLY want to work hard for a good university and the ones who might have the ability but slack off. It's the national work ethic that brought Korea to where it is now after the depression/war/etc. At least that's the way we see it. Sure we complain, but really, who doesn't complain about highschool in any nation. I don't think I've ever heard anybody complain about the pressure of high school at my old school. Sure there were people who complained about stupid shit but never about anything quite as serious like this. Regardless, I think the Korean work ethic is amazing and a lot of countries would benefit amazingly if they stressed school as much as Koreans do. I meant it in like a "people always find things to complain about, even when they don't really have an issue with it" kind of way. Sorry, should have clarified that. I mean, obviously Korea is a bit extreme but honestly, I prefer it over the "everyone did a great job! Test scores are private information! Class ranking isn't important at all! It's the personality/creativity/effort that counts, not the result!" kind of attitude my highschool in America had. What a joke. I don't think a single person in that school ever tried 100% The good thing about the American highschool system is that they actually foster personality, creativity, and diversity. Students can focus on things they like and have interest in. This allows them to excel in their particular interests. Korea doesn't really have extra curricular stuff for students and people who do sports or art pretty much ONLY do sports and art. Same with music and other stuff.
and then you have American students at #25 in Math, #12 in reading and #20 in Science in the world
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923110.htm
I dont know, good extra curriculasr don't seems to matter if the school can't adequately provide the most important thing a school need to provide... education
and in SK study is not the only thing you can do, the kids doing kpop are also training 12+ hours per day since middle school, same for the sportsman and starcraft players
its more about deciding what you want and doing it with full commitment, whether its study, music, sports or starcraft rather than trying do everything at the same time ala USA highschool
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On August 28 2011 12:37 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 09:38 sandyph wrote:On August 28 2011 04:10 krndandaman wrote:On August 28 2011 02:55 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On August 28 2011 02:37 Cyberspace1 wrote:On August 28 2011 02:31 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On August 28 2011 01:32 jax1492 wrote:
I think all the topics she brings up are valid, but I think she really is just is missing the point .... Korea is not America. just because double eyelids seem so desired and seems odd to her we have the our standards of beauty in the usa also that may seem weird in Korea. this sounds harsh but it seems like she wants to be Korean and is now just trying to pick everything she sees wrong ... i dont think i will watch this .... i call this another case of Korea is awesome all i know is kpop and then she was surprised it wasn't like a kpop video.
p.s. i like kpop Yea, like the OP said, she seems to be pushing Western ideals into a completely different culture. I and many of my friends who went to highschool in Korea don't really see the studying as an issue. The atmosphere of pressure motivates you to work harder than you thought you could and it also clearly separates the ones who REALLY want to work hard for a good university and the ones who might have the ability but slack off. It's the national work ethic that brought Korea to where it is now after the depression/war/etc. At least that's the way we see it. Sure we complain, but really, who doesn't complain about highschool in any nation. I don't think I've ever heard anybody complain about the pressure of high school at my old school. Sure there were people who complained about stupid shit but never about anything quite as serious like this. Regardless, I think the Korean work ethic is amazing and a lot of countries would benefit amazingly if they stressed school as much as Koreans do. I meant it in like a "people always find things to complain about, even when they don't really have an issue with it" kind of way. Sorry, should have clarified that. I mean, obviously Korea is a bit extreme but honestly, I prefer it over the "everyone did a great job! Test scores are private information! Class ranking isn't important at all! It's the personality/creativity/effort that counts, not the result!" kind of attitude my highschool in America had. What a joke. I don't think a single person in that school ever tried 100% The good thing about the American highschool system is that they actually foster personality, creativity, and diversity. Students can focus on things they like and have interest in. This allows them to excel in their particular interests. Korea doesn't really have extra curricular stuff for students and people who do sports or art pretty much ONLY do sports and art. Same with music and other stuff. and then you have American students at #25 in Math, #12 in reading and #20 in Science in the world http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923110.htmI dont know, good extra curriculasr don't seems to matter if the school can't adequately provide the most important thing a school need to provide... education and in SK study is not the only thing you can do, the kids doing kpop are also training 12+ hours per day since middle school, same for the sportsman and starcraft players its more about deciding what you want and doing it with full commitment, whether its study, music, sports or starcraft rather than trying do everything at the same time ala USA highschool But then again, American highschool students are generally more well-rounded and flexible. What if you decide that being an artist is actually not your true dream? What if you were a soccer player and you sustained an injury that would never let you play soccer again? What if you weren't good enough to make it into a group as a kpop singer? Those students in korea barely have anything to fall back on and it's VERY hard if you switch.
Is this fact or opinion?
Can you provide evidence to support this claim that American students are more well-rounded as individuals?
Is this even a claim that is possible to prove?
I understand that a lot of people get angry when you say things like "This culture is just different... its not wrong or worse than yours, its just different" because people feel like you are just copping out of an argument, or taking the easiest stance.
But IMO this is just one of those things that is just a cultural stances on something, that is different from other ones. How can you say which is better or worse?
IMO there are scenarios in which either stance is more beneificial.
Would you rather have a doctor/lawyer who does NOTHING but studies law and medicine, and so knows EVERY fact/loophole/workings of their field? Or would you rather have a doctor who knows a lot about medicine, and a little about art?
Same when it coems to sports/music though.
Would you rather watch the person who has dedicated their life into becoming the worlds greatest soccer player? Or would you rather him be a great soccer player, who can also play a mean game of basketball?
So which is better? Having lesser skill in any one, but being skilled in multiple areas, or having reached their personal ultimate limit in any one area?
...¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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On August 28 2011 09:38 sandyph wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2011 04:10 krndandaman wrote:On August 28 2011 02:55 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On August 28 2011 02:37 Cyberspace1 wrote:On August 28 2011 02:31 Xenocide_Knight wrote:On August 28 2011 01:32 jax1492 wrote:
I think all the topics she brings up are valid, but I think she really is just is missing the point .... Korea is not America. just because double eyelids seem so desired and seems odd to her we have the our standards of beauty in the usa also that may seem weird in Korea. this sounds harsh but it seems like she wants to be Korean and is now just trying to pick everything she sees wrong ... i dont think i will watch this .... i call this another case of Korea is awesome all i know is kpop and then she was surprised it wasn't like a kpop video.
p.s. i like kpop Yea, like the OP said, she seems to be pushing Western ideals into a completely different culture. I and many of my friends who went to highschool in Korea don't really see the studying as an issue. The atmosphere of pressure motivates you to work harder than you thought you could and it also clearly separates the ones who REALLY want to work hard for a good university and the ones who might have the ability but slack off. It's the national work ethic that brought Korea to where it is now after the depression/war/etc. At least that's the way we see it. Sure we complain, but really, who doesn't complain about highschool in any nation. I don't think I've ever heard anybody complain about the pressure of high school at my old school. Sure there were people who complained about stupid shit but never about anything quite as serious like this. Regardless, I think the Korean work ethic is amazing and a lot of countries would benefit amazingly if they stressed school as much as Koreans do. I meant it in like a "people always find things to complain about, even when they don't really have an issue with it" kind of way. Sorry, should have clarified that. I mean, obviously Korea is a bit extreme but honestly, I prefer it over the "everyone did a great job! Test scores are private information! Class ranking isn't important at all! It's the personality/creativity/effort that counts, not the result!" kind of attitude my highschool in America had. What a joke. I don't think a single person in that school ever tried 100% The good thing about the American highschool system is that they actually foster personality, creativity, and diversity. Students can focus on things they like and have interest in. This allows them to excel in their particular interests. Korea doesn't really have extra curricular stuff for students and people who do sports or art pretty much ONLY do sports and art. Same with music and other stuff. and then you have American students at #25 in Math, #12 in reading and #20 in Science in the world http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0923110.htmI dont know, good extra curriculasr don't seems to matter if the school can't adequately provide the most important thing a school need to provide... education and in SK study is not the only thing you can do, the kids doing kpop are also training 12+ hours per day since middle school, same for the sportsman and starcraft players its more about deciding what you want and doing it with full commitment, whether its study, music, sports or starcraft rather than trying do everything at the same time ala USA highschool
Maybe they go to extremes in South Korea, but I like the idea of specialization. Everyone's a beautiful unique snowflake who can be good at anything they want (*), but shit, it's usually just obvious by 6th or 7th grade which have what talents. A little bit of well-rounded-ness and enrichment is ok, but I definitely think American schools ought to followed a more specific model.
On a somewhat related note, how do special needs/learning disability/speech impediment kids get treated by the education system. It seems like in America, we use a hell of a lot of resources on these ones and really care for them and basically surrogate parent them.
Video was very interesting, I had no idea about the plastic surgery thing.
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Korea's high school is really fucked up you guys from west cant comprehend.
My high school years were fun but most of them waste their teen.
By the way high school forces students to stay until 10:00pm and after that priavte education is option.
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EPT
