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Leave the animal rights and treatment discussion out of this topic. Thanks. -Nyovne |
On August 12 2011 21:22 Crushgroove wrote:
OP is silly... No. Bears do not have self-aware sentience just because one bear killed itself. As for killing the cub, it sounds as though the mother was just trying to free it, but killed it. Lemmings run off cliffs all the time. We should infer from this that they have read too much Chaucer and believe paradise truly is lost and the only way to save it is to fly.....
Thanks for sharing the news story though.
Very very doubtful that the bear ran into a wall with intention of inflicting self-harm, rather, it was kept in a cage its whole life and was very unfamiliar with the whole concept of running and object permanence in the first place. It hit the wall and died. It was a messed up bear. Farmer's fault. End of story. Let's attempt not to personify animals because of this.
Pain is pain is pain.
I would believe that many vertebrates share a comparable levels of distress. A bear is a highly developed animal, it seems plausable to say that we could ascribe it, at least in some capacities, a higher functioning that some human infants, or persons with mental disabilities. I don't think sentience is an on/off switch, rather a sliding scale trailing towards full conscious awareness. Pain however is most likely a lower order function of the brain, something intrinsic to vertebrates for its utility.
I personally think we should map awareness and experience of pain (as best we can) as components of the individual, not simply ascribe a blanket judgment across species. If it is found that animals experience similar levels of distress when in these conditions, then ethically we must seriously consider if practice such as this (battery farming etc) are acceptable in society.
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this story makes me sad and angry 
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On August 12 2011 21:22 hifriend wrote:
Wow that's fucked up. Someone's going to hate me for this I guess but why is it that asian cultures so often have no regard what so ever for treating animals in a humane fashion? I don't care whether it's a bear, dog, cat, cow or a pig it's just a really messed up way of treating other living beings. Makes me sick to my stomach tbh.
Western cultures were at that level once before, though. Let's just say western culture is at level 10 in animal compassion, whereas the asian cultures are still level 3. They'll get to level 10 too someday after some grinding.
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On August 12 2011 21:47 wussleeQ wrote:
People making these racist generalizations about the Chinese are starting to get to me. Comments exactly like "Chinese have no respect for animals at all, that's pretty much a fact... hell they hardly have any respect for human life." are turning this thread into complete shit as I am very offended by this seeing as how I'm a Chinese American. Keep the races out of this please as a lot of these comments that sound like this add nothing to the conversation and pisses others off.
Amen to that brother. I'm also a Chinese immigrant and let me just say that this kind of shit is actually in the extreme minority. Most of the ignorant comments posted here are probably from people who's never even been to China and all they read about is the negative news stories that get published. I'm not trying to spread some communist progaganda bullshit here, but the majority of Chinese people are just ordinary people going about their business. I actually had a chat to a Taiwanese friend of mine who's family business is Traditional Chinese Medicine, and he's horrified this is still done.
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this is worst than the white man enslaving south america for sugar, africa for diamonds, middle east for oil, and asia for electronics... or is it?
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sounds like it couldnt bear the torture
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On August 12 2011 22:04 daytrippers wrote:
sounds like it couldnt bear the torture
It wasn't funny the first time...
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On August 12 2011 21:38 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 21:23 Technique wrote:
Chinese have no respect for animals at all, that's pretty much a fact... hell they hardly have any respect for human life. Such an ignorant statement.
Explain?
And no saying other parts of the world have animal cruelty as well (which unfortunately is very true) does not disregard my comment.
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Sad news  But this does raise a few questions on animal conscience, as most people do not believe that animals have one.
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On August 12 2011 14:53 micronesia wrote:
Tragic story of animal cruelty, of course.
But also it sounds amazing the way the bear behaved... if this is true it makes me rethink how animal behaviour works.
when i first saw the thread i had that feeling of my mind being opened to a greater truth of animal behavior but when i read they killed themselves out of severe, consistent and unhealing pain, it's certainly interesting but not out of the realm of understanding i already had.
as far as the actual topic goes, there is animal cruelty all over the world but asian countries really disgust the fuck out of me with the extent that they take it, almost like they take pride in it.
edit: apparently there's crazy racism going on in the thread, so i guess i should clarify and say that of the minority of people that do this, in asian countries, the sick fucks take it to a bizarre level of cruelty. compared to other countries, what i've seen in asia is crazier.
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Sad and touching story =( Motherly love.
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On August 12 2011 22:04 daytrippers wrote:
sounds like it couldnt bear the torture
know when to be serious. fucking child
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On August 12 2011 22:10 Technique wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2011 21:38 PanN wrote:On August 12 2011 21:23 Technique wrote:
Chinese have no respect for animals at all, that's pretty much a fact... hell they hardly have any respect for human life. Such an ignorant statement. Explain? And no saying other parts of the world have animal cruelty as well (which unfortunately is very true) does not disregard my comment.
Hello capitalism and globalization.
It's ignorant to single out the Chinese in this regard and even more ignorant to generalize the entire race. Last I checked the animals that went extinct were...well you got to do some of the work...
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It's always stories like this that come from China. Do they not have animal cruelty laws there? I'm guessing not.
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On August 12 2011 22:59 Deadlyhazard wrote:
It's always stories like this that come from China. Do they not have animal cruelty laws there? I'm guessing not.
If there isn't proper human rights, what do you think?
And not to forget, this same shit is happening in Korea and other Asian countries. Said pages ago.
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Wow reading this made me feel really bad.. Just horrible,, Cant belive people would actually do such a thing
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The story is kinda sad, but I'm really shocked by the bear's actions. I never knew that bears or other animals could contemplate euthansia/suicide. Really shows me at least how little I know.
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On August 12 2011 22:59 Deadlyhazard wrote:
It's always stories like this that come from China. Do they not have animal cruelty laws there? I'm guessing not.
Very little rules yes and also very little protesters against stuff like animal testing, hence why animal testing is kinda drawn to China.
But of course if you make a comment about it, you are perceived racist, so funny.
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when I read China I kinda figured where this is going (Asia in general are a little crazy on the whole "efficiency" thing when "farming stuff")
for those that argue against bears having self awareness to some degree then can you counter OP how it was stated that the bears wear iron vest to "prevent the bears killing themselves?"
imo i dont think chickens are smart enough to go kill themselves.
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EPT
