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On May 10 2011 15:47 Citadel.i wrote:
Stay out of other countries politics
I would say yes to this policy in general. I would say no to this policy when the country's politics could potentially involve the mass murder of innocents.
Personally, I don't believe that there are such things as universal human rights, and I also don't believe that homosexuality in the abstract is a positive thing. But I'll be damned if I can talk myself out of signing a petition that protects people from being executed for their sexual orientation. I can't conceive of that as anything but an evil to be resisted by any means. I am all for using Western political clout to crush this bill where it stands.
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On May 10 2011 12:33 Mykill wrote:
wow why isn't this being covered on the news. death penalty is an insane idea.
it has been covered for a LONG time by racheal maddow
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voted, must be terrible to be gay in Uganda.
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But does signing a petition here really help? Are there any other concrete ways to affect the outcome?
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Sucks that maddow is gay, however I can still use my imagination 
And yea, this is rediculous.
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On May 10 2011 15:38 acker wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 15:32 Halcyondaze wrote:
If you seriously think Evangelicals as a whole are in favor of this you are more closed minded than you claim Evangelicals to be.
I'm sorry for whatever christian, or maybe the media, has led you to feel this way. Reason he feels that way is because some idiot evangelical group from over here helped convince a few Uguandan congressmen that such a bill was a good idea. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/04/world/africa/04uganda.html
That is the reason why I said "in a favor of this as a whole". Blaming Evangelicals is like blaming Islam for 9/11. If not even a smaller %
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Zurich15363 Posts
Just so you guys who are so utterly shocked get an idea how common this is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Law.2C_politics.2C_society_and_sociology
On May 10 2011 14:48 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 14:40 hmunkey wrote:On May 10 2011 14:30 tdt wrote:On May 10 2011 14:24 zodde wrote:On May 10 2011 14:23 tdt wrote:On May 10 2011 13:00 hmunkey wrote:On May 10 2011 12:54 Redunzl wrote:
How about you stay away from Uganda if you don't like this.
Who are you to tell a sovereign nation how to legislate. Because certain things fall under the blanket of human rights. they are not rules that sovereign states can break, they are unalienable rights of all human beings. Murdering gay people is one of those. so is killing civilians involved in peaceful protesting. So is racial genocide. If you don't understand this concept, you should probably consider reading some Wikipedia entries before posting. There is nothing universal/unalienable about it, many countries never signed the universal declaration of human rights not to mention all rights are psychological constructs nothing universal/unalienable about them. So you're against basic human rights? That's a good way to make enemies :D I didnt say that. Mearly pointing out one man human right can be opposite anothers. Mind giving me an example? I can't really think of one and nothing you've said so far has any shred of logic in it, leading me to believe you can't either and are just talking out of your ass. Like I said earlier if iyou were indoctrinated in Saudi you'd think killing gays was the thing to do. They do it every friday in head chopping ceremonies.
And to the Saudi "expert" a few posts further up: No, Saudi doesn't have Friday beheading celebrations. Nobody is executed on Friday in fact.
That's not to say they don't have the death penalty on homsexuality as well, but in my time over there I have not heard of a single case. See:
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/vewblog.php?id=123627
and (somewhat related)
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=123023
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I personally do not believe in supporting gay and lesibians, but if they're wanting to deter homosexuality why not just find other ways to make it inconvenient. Killing people over the choices a person makes in their personal life is not good.
I wonder what exactly their thought process is? They're certainly not the first group of people to kill others for not believing what they believe.
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On May 10 2011 14:59 abominare wrote:
Well it is uganda...
This is why no one takes africa seriously, the whole continent has been a shit whole for nearly 3 thousand years.
User was warned for this post
Oh so insulting a whole continent of people and being a racist bigot only gets you a warning?
Really?
USA and rich european countries exploited Africa for its natural ressources since we first set foot on the continent.
We buy their ressources for a cheap price and export them unnecessary goods, just to maintain our lifestyle and have all those petty little things in our lifes, while africans starve to death and no one even cares.
They fight for scraps from a table of a system that keeps them oppressed, while we live in infinity.
Were only gonna die of our own Arrogance.
@topic: Ofc its wrong. I signed the petition, also with a spam email account.
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This is not something you can look at with a Westernized point of view by the way. I am completely against death and the extradition of "criminals" from other countries. But Uganda is primitive, and they are using the only way that they see to deter homosexuality (which they see as a sin) that they know. HIV is an epidemic in their country. Yes I think this is wrong, but maybe try seeing their point of view
Edit: Also remember that this is a proposal, it is extreme because that is how you negotiate. The Ugandan government officials have said that the death penalty and extradition of people will almost for sure be taken out of the bill, along with many other things.
P.S. Homosexuality is not a human right in Uganda
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On May 10 2011 16:04 Halcyondaze wrote:
This is not something you can look at with a Westernized point of view by the way. I am completely against death and the extradition of "criminals" from other countries. But Uganda is primitive, and they are using the only way that they see to deter homosexuality (which they see as a sin) that they know. HIV is an epidemic in their country. Yes I think this is wrong, but maybe try seeing their point of view
For Christ's sake, what does HIV have to do with justifying capital punishment for being gay? Yes, I realize that they are probably scapegoating homosexuals for the HIV epidemic. Doing so, however, isn't justifiable on any level.
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On May 10 2011 16:08 wzzit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 16:04 Halcyondaze wrote:
This is not something you can look at with a Westernized point of view by the way. I am completely against death and the extradition of "criminals" from other countries. But Uganda is primitive, and they are using the only way that they see to deter homosexuality (which they see as a sin) that they know. HIV is an epidemic in their country. Yes I think this is wrong, but maybe try seeing their point of view For Christ's sake, what does HIV have to do with justifying capital punishment for being gay? Yes, I realize that they are probably scapegoating homosexuals for the HIV epidemic. Doing so, however, isn't justifiable on any level.
So who would you blame for the HIV epidemic?
lol Edit again: Im just curious, don't want to come off as an anti-gay. I really am pretty middle ground on the entire issue
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United States43677 Posts
On May 10 2011 16:11 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 16:08 wzzit wrote:On May 10 2011 16:04 Halcyondaze wrote:
This is not something you can look at with a Westernized point of view by the way. I am completely against death and the extradition of "criminals" from other countries. But Uganda is primitive, and they are using the only way that they see to deter homosexuality (which they see as a sin) that they know. HIV is an epidemic in their country. Yes I think this is wrong, but maybe try seeing their point of view For Christ's sake, what does HIV have to do with justifying capital punishment for being gay? Yes, I realize that they are probably scapegoating homosexuals for the HIV epidemic. Doing so, however, isn't justifiable on any level. So who would you blame for the HIV epidemic?
If you're blaming the HIV epidemic on gay people then how are straight people/women getting it? I'd blame the vatican, among other factors, for actively opposing education on safe sex.
Edit: And what exactly is the middle ground on the execution of gays?
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On May 10 2011 16:11 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 16:08 wzzit wrote:On May 10 2011 16:04 Halcyondaze wrote:
This is not something you can look at with a Westernized point of view by the way. I am completely against death and the extradition of "criminals" from other countries. But Uganda is primitive, and they are using the only way that they see to deter homosexuality (which they see as a sin) that they know. HIV is an epidemic in their country. Yes I think this is wrong, but maybe try seeing their point of view For Christ's sake, what does HIV have to do with justifying capital punishment for being gay? Yes, I realize that they are probably scapegoating homosexuals for the HIV epidemic. Doing so, however, isn't justifiable on any level. So who would you blame for the HIV epidemic?
You know that gay people are in 99% of cases only infecting other gay people, right? So what's the point of implementing a death penalty to deter these people from infecting each other if you hate the gays so much? AIDs in Africa is already a death penalty..
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On May 10 2011 16:11 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 16:08 wzzit wrote:On May 10 2011 16:04 Halcyondaze wrote:
This is not something you can look at with a Westernized point of view by the way. I am completely against death and the extradition of "criminals" from other countries. But Uganda is primitive, and they are using the only way that they see to deter homosexuality (which they see as a sin) that they know. HIV is an epidemic in their country. Yes I think this is wrong, but maybe try seeing their point of view For Christ's sake, what does HIV have to do with justifying capital punishment for being gay? Yes, I realize that they are probably scapegoating homosexuals for the HIV epidemic. Doing so, however, isn't justifiable on any level. So who would you blame for the HIV epidemic? lol Edit again: Im just curious, don't want to come off as an anti-gay. I really am pretty middle ground on the entire issue
Abstinence-only sex ed? The spread of HIV in Africa could have been orders of magnitude less severe if the people had been provided with easy access to and information about condoms. Could still be slowed even now, though I have no idea if they're doing anything in that regard.
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On May 10 2011 16:11 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 16:08 wzzit wrote:On May 10 2011 16:04 Halcyondaze wrote:
This is not something you can look at with a Westernized point of view by the way. I am completely against death and the extradition of "criminals" from other countries. But Uganda is primitive, and they are using the only way that they see to deter homosexuality (which they see as a sin) that they know. HIV is an epidemic in their country. Yes I think this is wrong, but maybe try seeing their point of view For Christ's sake, what does HIV have to do with justifying capital punishment for being gay? Yes, I realize that they are probably scapegoating homosexuals for the HIV epidemic. Doing so, however, isn't justifiable on any level. So who would you blame for the HIV epidemic? lol Edit again: Im just curious, don't want to come off as an anti-gay. I really am pretty middle ground on the entire issue
Are you typing these posts from the 1980s? Is the Soviet Union still around over there?
I can't believe that people still think that gay people are somehow responsible for the HIV epidemic. Really, the CDC settled this issue about two and a half decades ago.
And my original point still stands. The HIV epidemic cannot justify capital punishment for gays on any level. It just doesn't make any fucking sense.
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On May 10 2011 16:13 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 16:11 Halcyondaze wrote:On May 10 2011 16:08 wzzit wrote:On May 10 2011 16:04 Halcyondaze wrote:
This is not something you can look at with a Westernized point of view by the way. I am completely against death and the extradition of "criminals" from other countries. But Uganda is primitive, and they are using the only way that they see to deter homosexuality (which they see as a sin) that they know. HIV is an epidemic in their country. Yes I think this is wrong, but maybe try seeing their point of view For Christ's sake, what does HIV have to do with justifying capital punishment for being gay? Yes, I realize that they are probably scapegoating homosexuals for the HIV epidemic. Doing so, however, isn't justifiable on any level. So who would you blame for the HIV epidemic? If you're blaming the HIV epidemic on gay people then how are straight people/women getting it? I'd blame the vatican, among other factors, for actively opposing education on safe sex. Edit: And what exactly is the middle ground on the execution of gays?
"I am completely against death and the extradition of 'criminals' from other countries."
Just thought I would reiterate that.
Also, the middle ground comment was meant towards gay as a moral issue, not execution.
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Interesting how uganda has so many problems yet they focus on something that isn't even a problem. Where can I find a legitimate source anyway. Are you sure there isn't some translation fail where they mean pedofiles and not homosexuals.
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On May 10 2011 16:17 wzzit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 16:11 Halcyondaze wrote:On May 10 2011 16:08 wzzit wrote:On May 10 2011 16:04 Halcyondaze wrote:
This is not something you can look at with a Westernized point of view by the way. I am completely against death and the extradition of "criminals" from other countries. But Uganda is primitive, and they are using the only way that they see to deter homosexuality (which they see as a sin) that they know. HIV is an epidemic in their country. Yes I think this is wrong, but maybe try seeing their point of view For Christ's sake, what does HIV have to do with justifying capital punishment for being gay? Yes, I realize that they are probably scapegoating homosexuals for the HIV epidemic. Doing so, however, isn't justifiable on any level. So who would you blame for the HIV epidemic? lol Edit again: Im just curious, don't want to come off as an anti-gay. I really am pretty middle ground on the entire issue Are you typing these posts from the 1980s? Is the Soviet Union still around over there? I can't believe that people still think that gay people are somehow responsible for the HIV epidemic. Really, the CDC settled this issue about two and a half decades ago. And my original point still stands. The HIV epidemic cannot justify capital punishment for gays on any level. It just doesn't make any fucking sense.
I didn't see an answer to my question in there. Just by asking who you blame does it mean that I believe that it is purely homosexuals? I was just seeking information
Also I see how you would say that, because I said who instead of what. That was a mistype. Its 2AM, not thinking 100%.
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On May 10 2011 16:19 Mitchlew wrote:
Interesting how uganda has so many problems yet they focus on something that isn't even a problem. Where can I find a legitimate source anyway. Are you sure there isn't some translation fail where they mean pedofiles and not homosexuals.
In my eyes that is what I see, a translation issue. He keeps hitting the point of kids and children, so it seems to me that he means pedophile and not homosexual. (But who really knows)
Edit: By He I mean the Ugandan in the Maddow Video
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EPT
