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On May 10 2011 16:23 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 16:19 Mitchlew wrote:
Interesting how uganda has so many problems yet they focus on something that isn't even a problem. Where can I find a legitimate source anyway. Are you sure there isn't some translation fail where they mean pedofiles and not homosexuals. In my eyes that is what I see, a translation issue. He keeps hitting the point of kids and children, so it seems to me that he means pedophile and not homosexual. (But who really knows)
It's a commonly used stereotype of gays by bigots that homosexuals are all pedophiles and want to prey upon your children.
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On May 10 2011 16:23 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 16:19 Mitchlew wrote:
Interesting how uganda has so many problems yet they focus on something that isn't even a problem. Where can I find a legitimate source anyway. Are you sure there isn't some translation fail where they mean pedofiles and not homosexuals. In my eyes that is what I see, a translation issue. He keeps hitting the point of kids and children, so it seems to me that he means pedophile and not homosexual. (But who really knows)
Yeah thats why I was getting confused, could be either.
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United States201 Posts
On May 10 2011 16:21 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 16:17 wzzit wrote:On May 10 2011 16:11 Halcyondaze wrote:On May 10 2011 16:08 wzzit wrote:On May 10 2011 16:04 Halcyondaze wrote:
This is not something you can look at with a Westernized point of view by the way. I am completely against death and the extradition of "criminals" from other countries. But Uganda is primitive, and they are using the only way that they see to deter homosexuality (which they see as a sin) that they know. HIV is an epidemic in their country. Yes I think this is wrong, but maybe try seeing their point of view For Christ's sake, what does HIV have to do with justifying capital punishment for being gay? Yes, I realize that they are probably scapegoating homosexuals for the HIV epidemic. Doing so, however, isn't justifiable on any level. So who would you blame for the HIV epidemic? lol Edit again: Im just curious, don't want to come off as an anti-gay. I really am pretty middle ground on the entire issue Are you typing these posts from the 1980s? Is the Soviet Union still around over there? I can't believe that people still think that gay people are somehow responsible for the HIV epidemic. Really, the CDC settled this issue about two and a half decades ago. And my original point still stands. The HIV epidemic cannot justify capital punishment for gays on any level. It just doesn't make any fucking sense. I didn't see an answer to my question in there. Just by asking who you blame does it mean that I believe that it is purely homosexuals? I was just seeking information Also I see how you would say that, because I said who instead of what. That was a mistype. Its 2AM, not thinking 100%.
Fair enough. There was an earlier post that actually did blame HIV on the gays, so I thought you were like that guy.
I don't think anybody is "to blame" for the AIDS crisis. A toxic combination of high infant mortality rates, low education, and corrupt institutional forces (the Catholic church, for example, and obviously the Ugandan government) has led to the rampant unprotected sex that turned Africa into a breeding ground for the HIV virus.
Given the sheer amount of corruption and ignorance, it's not surprising that homosexuals have been scapegoated by the Ugandan masses. The only solution to this problem is long-term education for the Ugandan people.
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Now... is this really serious?
Most of the Links here are outdated, so i don't know if this is really true. oO
If it's true im curious when it will be out in the german media, because this will really shock most of the people here.
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United States43468 Posts
On May 10 2011 16:23 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 16:19 Mitchlew wrote:
Interesting how uganda has so many problems yet they focus on something that isn't even a problem. Where can I find a legitimate source anyway. Are you sure there isn't some translation fail where they mean pedofiles and not homosexuals. In my eyes that is what I see, a translation issue. He keeps hitting the point of kids and children, so it seems to me that he means pedophile and not homosexual. (But who really knows) Edit: By He I mean the Ugandan in the Maddow Video
Nope, that's just a pretty standard bit of homophobic propaganda.
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On May 10 2011 16:37 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 16:23 Halcyondaze wrote:On May 10 2011 16:19 Mitchlew wrote:
Interesting how uganda has so many problems yet they focus on something that isn't even a problem. Where can I find a legitimate source anyway. Are you sure there isn't some translation fail where they mean pedofiles and not homosexuals. In my eyes that is what I see, a translation issue. He keeps hitting the point of kids and children, so it seems to me that he means pedophile and not homosexual. (But who really knows) Edit: By He I mean the Ugandan in the Maddow Video Nope, that's just a pretty standard bit of homophobic propaganda.
I agree that it is, in the West. Africa is a different world, and while he may be just another idiot trying to claim homosexuals as a whole as pedophiles, he also might have a translation issue.
I'm just trying not to jump to conclusions
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On May 10 2011 16:02 probob wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 14:59 abominare wrote:
Well it is uganda...
This is why no one takes africa seriously, the whole continent has been a shit whole for nearly 3 thousand years.
User was warned for this post Oh so insulting a whole continent of people and being a racist bigot only gets you a warning? Really? USA and rich european countries exploited Africa for its natural ressources since we first set foot on the continent. We buy their ressources for a cheap price and export them unnecessary goods, just to maintain our lifestyle and have all those petty little things in our lifes, while africans starve to death and no one even cares. They fight for scraps from a table of a system that keeps them oppressed, while we live in infinity. Were only gonna die of our own Arrogance. @topic: Ofc its wrong. I signed the petition, also with a spam email account.
On May 10 2011 16:02 probob wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 14:59 abominare wrote:
Well it is uganda...
This is why no one takes africa seriously, the whole continent has been a shit whole for nearly 3 thousand years.
User was warned for this post Oh so insulting a whole continent of people and being a racist bigot only gets you a warning? Really? USA and rich european countries exploited Africa for its natural ressources since we first set foot on the continent. We buy their ressources for a cheap price and export them unnecessary goods, just to maintain our lifestyle and have all those petty little things in our lifes, while africans starve to death and no one even cares. They fight for scraps from a table of a system that keeps them oppressed, while we live in infinity. Were only gonna die of our own Arrogance. @topic: Ofc its wrong. I signed the petition, also with a spam email account.
=D
I'm not sure how I'm a racist bigot now, but other than the north eastern portion of the continent which desperately leaps to be claimed as part of the middle east, the continent is by and large a huge freaking wreck. We can go on and on and on about all the problems in africa both from internal issues and external issues but let me ask you this, how quickly would you move to africa? You wouldn't the place is a freaking nightmare, and was even before the western influences came back, the place can literally hold a claim on being the birthplace of slavery.
Since you took such a wonderful leap into calling me a racists, some history. The large tragic movement of slaves brought in from africa were by in large part contracted from actual african residents. Slavery was still going strong in africa (and in some respects in certain areas still very much alive) at the time and most slaves bound for america had been slaves for many years on their home continent. Infact theres a lot of really interesting lectures from prominent black leadership of the reconstruction era expounding on the sort of strange irony they would of been born slaves even in africa.
Of course since I'm such a racist bigot, I opted for all my university history credits to come from African American history studies instead of traditional history classes. So yes, in light of the horrible problems surrounding the continent I was not surprised that Uganda and other nearby countries were willing to put people to death for homosexuality, in fact this goes on in plenty of other african nations we like to forget about. I furthermore still stand on my claim the place is a disaster zone.
Furthermore on the economics of africa as having my degree in finance and opting for my finance electives to have a focus on economies of developing nations in africa, since you know I'm such a fucking white southern hill billy racist. The vast majority of natural resources in africa go largely untouched for various political instability and infrastructure deficiencies. No one sits around and tells them they only get half of what everyone else gets for diamonds/oil/lumber (well in some cases they intentionally have to undercut competition by larger margins since the massive instability of the area makes people uneasy to set up long term contracts), and they can only buy 'unnecessary goods', theres a hole slew of internal corruption and poor societal choices going on here.
By and large the countries here don't even have the means to even extract the complex resources at their disposal and with legislation like this, and the other million problems in the area, few companies are willing to invest in operation theres, thus much of the population relies on low tech production means. Serious agriculture planning issues aside, its not exactly surprising they get paid very little for agriculture products when having to compete with fully modernized farms and actually functioning regulatory systems. Yes theres a few economies here and there that are pushing forward better but its more of a by comparison story.
I'm not saying africa is in the situation it is in on their own merit alone, we certainly didnt help for a long time, and it'll be an even longer time before the place can come to grips with its own identity.
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signed it. shit just aint right
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Oh humanity, where hast thous gone?
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On May 10 2011 16:44 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 16:37 KwarK wrote:On May 10 2011 16:23 Halcyondaze wrote:On May 10 2011 16:19 Mitchlew wrote:
Interesting how uganda has so many problems yet they focus on something that isn't even a problem. Where can I find a legitimate source anyway. Are you sure there isn't some translation fail where they mean pedofiles and not homosexuals. In my eyes that is what I see, a translation issue. He keeps hitting the point of kids and children, so it seems to me that he means pedophile and not homosexual. (But who really knows) Edit: By He I mean the Ugandan in the Maddow Video Nope, that's just a pretty standard bit of homophobic propaganda. I agree that it is, in the West. Africa is a different world, and while he may be just another idiot trying to claim homosexuals as a whole as pedophiles, he also might have a translation issue. I'm just trying not to jump to conclusions
You're really going out of your way to defend the people proposing this bill. First, it's not about HIV. They don't talk about HIV when defending the bill. This is a peripheral issue.
Secondly, this isn't 1900. The people proposing this bill have access to the same information we do. Uganda is a very poor country, but Bhatti and others have received material support from prominent American politicians and Christian leaders. They're propagating the same homophobic lies and misrepresentations we hear from far right figures in the US and Europe. This isn't happening in a vacuum. The whole homosexual=pedophile idea has been a cornerstone of anti-gay movements for a long time. Bhatti is tapping into that narrative.
I understand wanting to take somewhat of a cultural relativistic approach to a lot of international issue, but the killing or long-term imprisonment of innocent homosexuals isn't one of them. That's especially true when such a practice is being sponsored by westerners.
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Not that I condone any of these actions, however I think america should focus on itself before we start focusing on other countries. This is already true in many areas, the death penalty for being gay. Why try to save the world when you're slowly shooting yourself in the foot?
Edit; You wanna contribute? set an example and fix yourself.
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Holy shi-
Just signed it.
People are strange.
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On May 10 2011 12:28 Highlight wrote:
is this serious? jeez death penalty? why aren't the major news networks covering this?
Royal wedding aftermath is clearly much more important.
I can't believe how blind people can become. Ridiculous.
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On May 10 2011 16:58 Omnipresent wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 16:44 Halcyondaze wrote:On May 10 2011 16:37 KwarK wrote:On May 10 2011 16:23 Halcyondaze wrote:On May 10 2011 16:19 Mitchlew wrote:
Interesting how uganda has so many problems yet they focus on something that isn't even a problem. Where can I find a legitimate source anyway. Are you sure there isn't some translation fail where they mean pedofiles and not homosexuals. In my eyes that is what I see, a translation issue. He keeps hitting the point of kids and children, so it seems to me that he means pedophile and not homosexual. (But who really knows) Edit: By He I mean the Ugandan in the Maddow Video Nope, that's just a pretty standard bit of homophobic propaganda. I agree that it is, in the West. Africa is a different world, and while he may be just another idiot trying to claim homosexuals as a whole as pedophiles, he also might have a translation issue. I'm just trying not to jump to conclusions You're really going out of your way to defend the people proposing this bill. First, it's not about HIV. They don't talk about HIV when defending the bill. This is a peripheral issue. Secondly, this isn't 1900. The people proposing this bill have access to the same information we do. Uganda is a very poor country, but Bhatti and others have received material support from prominent American politicians and Christian leaders. They're propagating the same homophobic lies and misrepresentations we hear from far right figures in the US and Europe. This isn't happening in a vacuum. The whole homosexual=pedophile idea has been a cornerstone of anti-gay movements for a long time. Bhatti is tapping into that narrative. I understand wanting to take somewhat of a cultural relativistic approach to a lot of international issue, but the killing or long-term imprisonment of innocent homosexuals isn't one of them. That's especially true when such a practice is being sponsored by westerners.
What I am doing is going out of my way to break single-mindedness. I have not supported this bill in any way in any of my posts.
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Well, certain leaders of some countries are mentally deferred and giving them access to the countless possiblities modern technology grants us might not be a good idea (including modern weapons).
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Blah. I just don't get homophobia at all. Even when I was under 10 years old and had no idea I might be gay, I was still really bewildered when I found out that Christians were supposed to be against gay people. That may have just been a result of me drawing connections between that situation and the anti-racism education everyone my age received in elementary school, but I just cannot relate to this apparently universal urge to marginalize and hate certain groups of people against all evidence.
Bah, people are dumb, and it seems so hopeless to bother trying to change them.
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On May 10 2011 17:00 Vegasminion wrote:
Not that I condone any of these actions, however I think america should focus on itself before we start focusing on other countries. This is already true in many areas, the death penalty for being gay. Why try to save the world when you're slowly shooting yourself in the foot?
We give Uganda serious aid.
http://www.usaid.gov/locations/sub-saharan_africa/countries/uganda/
If they opt to carry out violations of basic human rights, it concerns us. It doesn't mean we should start a war or provoke a revolution (like we did throughout Latin American and Africa throughout the last century), but a bill like this should make us seriously consider the nature and extent of our aid to Uganda.
Additionally, the only thing being asked is that you show opposition to this bill, just to let them know how the international community will respond to its passage. That's not really too much to focus on, and shouldn't affect anyone ability to manage other areas of policy.
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I openly support gay people o.o; I'm a guy, and straight. It's stupid not to support gay people.
Advantages to supporting gay people.
1.) They date guys, leaving more girls for you.
2.) Having gay friends girls tend to like you more easily knowing you aren't a homophobe.
3.) See rule 1.) and 2.)
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If anyone even doubts that this is wrong or wants to put side-notes on this, they are digusting human beings. This is wrong, there is no debate about it.
There is no spectrum for to what degree it is fine to opress homosexuals. Murder is by far the worse but how many would care if it was only jail sentences or forced sterilisation? The vast majority of the world doesn't give a damn about the fate of homosexual. Some people in this topic even grew up in a modern country, yet still their brain is filled with a cancer of hatred.
Homosexuals should be granted equall status in every way. They can have their gay pride parades until everyone just accepts them. No it's not allright to beat up a homosexual because he had the audacity to kiss someone infront of you or hold hands. It's not allright to victimise someone over how they were born.
From the lowly worm that cries that he just doesn't want to see homosexuality to the preacher that takes the money from his community to fund genocide, all of them are wrong. It's not up for debate, i won't compromise over the lives of other people. It's not enough to know history will paint you people as low as racists in a few years, there are still people dying over how they were born because you people can't keep a check on your blind hatred.
Got a problem with gay parades? Then join the line with all the other revolting preachers that put on their false grins as they lie about how they just don't want to see homosexuality. It's all nothing but lies. Did homosexuals get along just fine when they didn't appear in public? Were the stonewall riots due to the fact that police were letting them go about their business?
People hate homosexuals and wanting them to leave the public eye isn't a solution, it's a step towards allowing you to once again start beating them up without anyone giving a fuck. It's easier to oppress people that don't have a voice. So go ahead and join all the 2-faced pastors with their book of peace in one hand and a lynching rope in the other.
What is happening in Uganda is beyond revolting and nothing short of a complete shut down of economical and political ties is called for. Let the people of Uganda rot away as much as they would like to see homosexuals rot away.
Even when this backwards country of Uganda happens to get a glimps of sanity, there will still be many countries left that kill homosexuals. Humanity has a long way to go before the vermin of this world die off and take their sick ideas with them.
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On May 10 2011 17:05 matjlav wrote:
Blah. I just don't get homophobia at all. Even when I was under 10 years old and had no idea I might be gay, I was still really bewildered when I found out that Christians were supposed to be against gay people. That may have just been a result of me drawing connections between that situation and the anti-racism education everyone my age received in elementary school, but I just cannot relate to this apparently universal urge to marginalize and hate certain groups of people against all evidence.
Bah, people are dumb, and it seems so hopeless to bother trying to change them.
Saying Christians are against gay people is a very vague statement.
I am a christian and in my opinion on the homosexual community is that they are sinning, just like I do everyday when I lie, steal, take God's name in vain, and a vast number of things. I do not look down upon homosexuals at all, just like I don't look down on somebody who I see lie. I have gay friends, and they know I oppose their beliefs, but I do not claim they are going to hell, or are a bad person for who am I to judge? In my opinion God will judge us all on our sins and just as he says no sin is greater than another. I try my best to love all people, but when I don't, and I "hate" someone, I feel I have sinned.
Sin is something that everybody thinks Christians look upon as if they never see it, or experience it.
But Christians that I associate with, and the way I believe it is that Christians sin just as much as non-Christians, but we do our best to repent for them and show others that God can take those sins and completely take them away from you.
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EPT
