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On May 11 2011 06:28 Brethern wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 06:25 Diglett wrote:On May 11 2011 05:58 Brethern wrote:On May 11 2011 05:57 Goldfish300 wrote:On May 11 2011 05:54 Brethern wrote:On May 11 2011 05:22 Goldfish300 wrote:On May 11 2011 04:58 Brethern wrote:On May 11 2011 04:51 Goldfish300 wrote:On May 11 2011 04:35 Brethern wrote:On May 11 2011 04:28 Djzapz wrote:
[quote]
Why would you support that part of the bill, those are not laws, they're just an extension of the "crime" which adds "aggravated" to it. They already have laws in place against those crimes though they're not related to homosexuality. Tell me where is a law that provides a death penalty to someone who rapes a child? I don't recall seeing one. Or where is one that helps protect people without HIV from getting infected from someone with HIV? Supposed I went to a bar I met a gay guy and said early in the evening that I wanted to try it. I got drunk and he decided that a condom was not necessary. All the while not telling me that he has HIV? Don't say it doesn't happen. 90% the spreaders of STD's are males. Getting HIV is a death sentence to someone who may have been curious about a way of life. Why should the infector get away with it? I have heard a case where a man who knowingly spread hiv to several women was taken to court. I don't remember what happened though, shall look it up. If it is shown they spread it intentionally then they shouldn't get away with it. If it was unintentional, then they need telling they have it/educating about how to live with it. I would like to know where your 90% figure came from. Also you make it sound like being gay is a choice. Right now I'm a canadian gun owner. A minority. There's people out there that think anyone who owns guns should have a lobotomy. As they have to be mentally disabled to want guns. There's people who want gays to have lobotomies as well because clearly no one mentally sound would want to have sex with a man. They are humans and they are born with free will. If they want to do a man I can't stop them. But I can do whatever it takes to ensure others have the choice as well. It sounds like you trying to say that because people can choose to do certain things like own a gun, they can choose all aspects of their life. Just like you can choose what foods you like/dislike and who you fall in love with. Personally, I don't believe in free will. The brain is just a chemical structure which has to obey rules like everything else. If it didn't, it wouldn't work. There is no room for free will there. If there is then apple has free will too. It's just atoms and energy too. Adjust someones brain and they act differently. It's been shown in several cases with rats where they changed markers on the rats dna. They could change the rats from being loving attentive parents who paid lots of attention to their pups into parents who ignored their children, and vice-versa. That being said, the idea that I have freewill is hard wired into me and despite what I just said, I act as though I and everyone else have it. I wouldn't know how not to. It's a concept currently required by society. You can't just say he had no choice to do x because of his brain structure and so he isn't responsible because then you could do anything and not be held accountable. The point is that there are some things we don't have control over and who we fall in love with is one of them. Yes, we can chose to ignore it, but thats it. So would you say gay people should just ignore that entire part of their existance and a live alone? If they don't want to be gay they won't be gay. Same reason as I'm here posting. Just because I own SC2 and play it that does not automatically mean I have to come and support teamliquid. Thankfully others don't think like you do otherwise we would still be thinking the earth is flat. Err what? How did you arrive at that? I pointed out something obvious and you just reiterate your point. Posting on TL is entirly dirrent to falling in love... Thankfully others do think like me and realised the earth isn't flat. I choose to register here. Simple as that. If you don't want to be gay you won't if you want to be gay then you will. i don't understand. in that case why do gays still exist? gays get shit on way more than straight people. gays don't want to get shit on. so... BAM TURN STRAIGHT!!?? so it's not that simple. Same reason that starcraft is still popular. It gets crapped on more than any other game. From people saying it sucks to people whining about IMBA. It's here because people love it and they choose to support it even with everything that's going on.
i'm wondering, why do people choose to be gay?
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On May 11 2011 06:28 Brethern wrote:
Same reason that starcraft is still popular. It gets crapped on more than any other game. From people saying it sucks to people whining about IMBA. It's here because people love it and they choose to support it even with everything that's going on.
So when did you make your choice between being straight and being gay?
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On May 11 2011 06:20 Soap wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 06:18 Bortlett wrote:On May 11 2011 06:05 Soap wrote:On May 11 2011 05:58 Bortlett wrote:On May 11 2011 05:54 Brethern wrote:
If they don't want to be gay they won't be gay. Same reason as I'm here posting. Just because I own SC2 and play it that does not automatically mean I have to come and support teamliquid.
Thankfully others don't think like you do otherwise we would still be thinking the earth is flat. You don't "want" to be gay, that's not how it works. Unless you mean "not having consuensual gay sex", in which case that's pretty unfair to ask a small minority of people and something you'd never force on a straight person. Do you have any evidence of that? I'm gay myself. That isn't evidence of anything.
Yea, so let´s burn him !
omg i can´t believe u guys are serious ...
gay is not a choice, a lot of gay guy realise they like dudes more than girls when puberty kicks in. most of them denies it at first because they dont want to be "different".
a gay friend of me told me he remembers when he was about 12 years old he watched underwear catalogues and the "bulb" on mens underwear was more interesting to him than the boobs of the girls. he didn´t even know what gay is - but he chose to be gay ?
yeah, sure.
being gay is not a hipster thing ...
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United States7483 Posts
On May 11 2011 06:30 Diglett wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 06:28 Brethern wrote:On May 11 2011 06:25 Diglett wrote:On May 11 2011 05:58 Brethern wrote:On May 11 2011 05:57 Goldfish300 wrote:On May 11 2011 05:54 Brethern wrote:On May 11 2011 05:22 Goldfish300 wrote:On May 11 2011 04:58 Brethern wrote:On May 11 2011 04:51 Goldfish300 wrote:On May 11 2011 04:35 Brethern wrote:
[quote]Tell me where is a law that provides a death penalty to someone who rapes a child? I don't recall seeing one. Or where is one that helps protect people without HIV from getting infected from someone with HIV?
Supposed I went to a bar I met a gay guy and said early in the evening that I wanted to try it. I got drunk and he decided that a condom was not necessary. All the while not telling me that he has HIV?
Don't say it doesn't happen. 90% the spreaders of STD's are males. Getting HIV is a death sentence to someone who may have been curious about a way of life. Why should the infector get away with it?
I have heard a case where a man who knowingly spread hiv to several women was taken to court. I don't remember what happened though, shall look it up. If it is shown they spread it intentionally then they shouldn't get away with it. If it was unintentional, then they need telling they have it/educating about how to live with it. I would like to know where your 90% figure came from. Also you make it sound like being gay is a choice. Right now I'm a canadian gun owner. A minority. There's people out there that think anyone who owns guns should have a lobotomy. As they have to be mentally disabled to want guns. There's people who want gays to have lobotomies as well because clearly no one mentally sound would want to have sex with a man. They are humans and they are born with free will. If they want to do a man I can't stop them. But I can do whatever it takes to ensure others have the choice as well. It sounds like you trying to say that because people can choose to do certain things like own a gun, they can choose all aspects of their life. Just like you can choose what foods you like/dislike and who you fall in love with. Personally, I don't believe in free will. The brain is just a chemical structure which has to obey rules like everything else. If it didn't, it wouldn't work. There is no room for free will there. If there is then apple has free will too. It's just atoms and energy too. Adjust someones brain and they act differently. It's been shown in several cases with rats where they changed markers on the rats dna. They could change the rats from being loving attentive parents who paid lots of attention to their pups into parents who ignored their children, and vice-versa. That being said, the idea that I have freewill is hard wired into me and despite what I just said, I act as though I and everyone else have it. I wouldn't know how not to. It's a concept currently required by society. You can't just say he had no choice to do x because of his brain structure and so he isn't responsible because then you could do anything and not be held accountable. The point is that there are some things we don't have control over and who we fall in love with is one of them. Yes, we can chose to ignore it, but thats it. So would you say gay people should just ignore that entire part of their existance and a live alone? If they don't want to be gay they won't be gay. Same reason as I'm here posting. Just because I own SC2 and play it that does not automatically mean I have to come and support teamliquid. Thankfully others don't think like you do otherwise we would still be thinking the earth is flat. Err what? How did you arrive at that? I pointed out something obvious and you just reiterate your point. Posting on TL is entirly dirrent to falling in love... Thankfully others do think like me and realised the earth isn't flat. I choose to register here. Simple as that. If you don't want to be gay you won't if you want to be gay then you will. i don't understand. in that case why do gays still exist? gays get shit on way more than straight people. gays don't want to get shit on. so... BAM TURN STRAIGHT!!?? so it's not that simple. Same reason that starcraft is still popular. It gets crapped on more than any other game. From people saying it sucks to people whining about IMBA. It's here because people love it and they choose to support it even with everything that's going on. i'm wondering, why do people choose to be gay?
They don't, nearly 100% of credible experts agree that being gay is not a choice.
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On May 11 2011 06:32 Bortlett wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 06:28 Brethern wrote:
Same reason that starcraft is still popular. It gets crapped on more than any other game. From people saying it sucks to people whining about IMBA. It's here because people love it and they choose to support it even with everything that's going on.
So when did you make your choice between being straight and being gay?
When I was 12
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On May 11 2011 06:38 Brethern wrote:
When I was 12
So you were attracted to men at one point? (I'm assuming you're male)
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On May 11 2011 04:35 Brethern wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 04:28 Djzapz wrote:On May 11 2011 04:11 Brethern wrote:
3. Aggravated homosexuality.
(1) A person commits the offense of aggravated homosexuality where the
(a) person against whom the offence is committed is below the age of 18 years;
(b) offender is a person living with HIV;
(c) offender is a parent or guardian of the person against whom the offence is committed;
(d) offender is a person in authority over the person against whom the offence is committed;
(e) victim of the offence is a person with disability;
(f) offender is a serial offender, or
(g) offender applies, administers or causes to be used by any man or woman any drug, matter or thing with intent to stupefy overpower him or her so as to there by enable any person to have unlawful carnal connection with any person of the same sex,
(2) A person who commits the offence of aggravated homosexuality shall be liable on conviction to suffer death.
(3) Where a person is charged with the offence under this section, that person shall undergo a medical examination to ascertain his or her HIV status.
That part of the bill I'll fully support. That covers rape, molestation, sex with people who may not be able to say no. Read ones who may be deaf unable to speak and blind. and finally scum bags who don't tell the other person they are HIV positive. That part of the bill should be applied to everyone straight and gay. Right now pedos get slap on the wrist sentences ten years in prison and their name on the sex offender list for ten years. Seriously that's a joke. The only part that works is that fact that others in the neighborhood vilify that person. Why would you support that part of the bill, those are not laws, they're just an extension of the "crime" which adds "aggravated" to it. They already have laws in place against those crimes though they're not related to homosexuality. Tell me where is a law that provides a death penalty to someone who rapes a child? I don't recall seeing one. Or where is one that helps protect people without HIV from getting infected from someone with HIV? Supposed I went to a bar I met a gay guy and said early in the evening that I wanted to try it. I got drunk and he decided that a condom was not necessary. All the while not telling me that he has HIV? Don't say it doesn't happen. 90% the spreaders of STD's are males. Getting HIV is a death sentence to someone who may have been curious about a way of life. Why should the infector get away with it?
Oh I didn't realize you were saying you're for death penalty in those cases. I'm tired. I guess I disagree but that's another debate.
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On May 11 2011 06:22 Bortlett wrote:So you think most every gay person is just lying to you when they say they don't want to be gay? How about demonstrated instances of homosexuality in multiple animal species? Or the fact that it makes no logical sense for somebody to choose to be a persecuted minority (*especially* in a place like Uganda)?
No, while that may be their opinion, that does not constitute a fact. I don't see how other species behavior apply to ours. And sure people do choose to be a persecuted minority, often religious.
I chose to be hetero because I prefer women. But if I happen to fall in love for a man, I would have nothing against pursuing that.
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How is killing people possibly better than homosexuality? I'm not a fan of homosexuality, but that doesn't mean that gay people aren't people.
This is just Hitler style, very very wrong.
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United States5162 Posts
On May 11 2011 06:45 Soap wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 06:22 Bortlett wrote:On May 11 2011 06:20 Soap wrote:
That isn't evidence of anything. So you think most every gay person is just lying to you when they say they don't want to be gay? How about demonstrated instances of homosexuality in multiple animal species? Or the fact that it makes no logical sense for somebody to choose to be a persecuted minority (*especially* in a place like Uganda)? No, while that may be their opinion, that does not constitute a fact. I don't see how other species behavior apply to ours. And sure people do choose to be a persecuted minority, often religious. I chose to be hetero because I prefer women. But if I happen to fall in love for a man, I would have nothing against pursuing that.
That's the point, they don't prefer women, they prefer men(gay guys of course). Is you gender preference a choice, or does it simply come without thought like mine?
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This question is a little off-topic but...
With everyone now agreeing there is no choice involved, that it is all biological, do you not worry that it could become labeled a medical condition or disorder then? Suppose for example that scientists figured out how to prevent or reverse it, would we all oppose the practice from taking place? And if not, what does that say about our attitude towards it?
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On May 11 2011 06:48 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 06:45 Soap wrote:On May 11 2011 06:22 Bortlett wrote:On May 11 2011 06:20 Soap wrote:
That isn't evidence of anything. So you think most every gay person is just lying to you when they say they don't want to be gay? How about demonstrated instances of homosexuality in multiple animal species? Or the fact that it makes no logical sense for somebody to choose to be a persecuted minority (*especially* in a place like Uganda)? No, while that may be their opinion, that does not constitute a fact. I don't see how other species behavior apply to ours. And sure people do choose to be a persecuted minority, often religious. I chose to be hetero because I prefer women. But if I happen to fall in love for a man, I would have nothing against pursuing that. That's the point, they don't prefer women, they prefer men(gay guys of course). Is you gender preference a choice, or does it simply come without thought like mine?
It comes without a thought. You can't control who you are attracted to. I would love to be gay. I would be well dressed and cultured then plus I wouldn't have to deal with the stress of women. Unfortunately.....guys are ugly.
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On May 11 2011 06:45 Soap wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 06:22 Bortlett wrote:On May 11 2011 06:20 Soap wrote:
That isn't evidence of anything. So you think most every gay person is just lying to you when they say they don't want to be gay? How about demonstrated instances of homosexuality in multiple animal species? Or the fact that it makes no logical sense for somebody to choose to be a persecuted minority (*especially* in a place like Uganda)? No, while that may be their opinion, that does not constitute a fact. I don't see how other species behavior apply to ours. And sure people do choose to be a persecuted minority, often religious. I chose to be hetero because I prefer women. But if I happen to fall in love for a man, I would have nothing against pursuing that.
don´t worry - if you´re really straight you won´t ever fall in love with a guy.
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On May 11 2011 06:48 Myles wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 06:45 Soap wrote:On May 11 2011 06:22 Bortlett wrote:On May 11 2011 06:20 Soap wrote:
That isn't evidence of anything. So you think most every gay person is just lying to you when they say they don't want to be gay? How about demonstrated instances of homosexuality in multiple animal species? Or the fact that it makes no logical sense for somebody to choose to be a persecuted minority (*especially* in a place like Uganda)? No, while that may be their opinion, that does not constitute a fact. I don't see how other species behavior apply to ours. And sure people do choose to be a persecuted minority, often religious. I chose to be hetero because I prefer women. But if I happen to fall in love for a man, I would have nothing against pursuing that. That's the point, they don't prefer women, they prefer men(gay guys of course). Is you gender preference a choice, or does it simply come without thought like mine?
I mean in the same sense I prefer Starcraft over C&C. As far as I can see I'm BW4LIFE, but if EA produces a really good C&C, why not?
It's not that simple to say the preference is from genes, environment, and/or free will.
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On May 11 2011 06:45 Soap wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 06:22 Bortlett wrote:On May 11 2011 06:20 Soap wrote:
That isn't evidence of anything. So you think most every gay person is just lying to you when they say they don't want to be gay? How about demonstrated instances of homosexuality in multiple animal species? Or the fact that it makes no logical sense for somebody to choose to be a persecuted minority (*especially* in a place like Uganda)? No, while that may be their opinion, that does not constitute a fact. I don't see how other species behavior apply to ours. And sure people do choose to be a persecuted minority, often religious. I chose to be hetero because I prefer women. But if I happen to fall in love for a man, I would have nothing against pursuing that.
Other species' behavior is of course relevant to humans - studies are performed on animals all the time to attempt to learn about their brains in an attempt to infer things about ours. It also shows that there is a biological component to homosexuality because most people believe animals don't have free will.
People choose to be a religious minority because for them they believe a certain religion answers many of life's most important questions. What would be the equivalent benefit for choosing to be gay?
Regarding your final point, since you say you chose to be hetero, were you ever sexually attracted to men? If so, did you choose to be sexually aroused by men? When you are sexually attracted to a woman, is that a conscious choice? Could you choose to be sexually aroused by somebody you are currently not attracted to?
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On May 11 2011 07:15 Bortlett wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 06:45 Soap wrote:On May 11 2011 06:22 Bortlett wrote:On May 11 2011 06:20 Soap wrote:
That isn't evidence of anything. So you think most every gay person is just lying to you when they say they don't want to be gay? How about demonstrated instances of homosexuality in multiple animal species? Or the fact that it makes no logical sense for somebody to choose to be a persecuted minority (*especially* in a place like Uganda)? No, while that may be their opinion, that does not constitute a fact. I don't see how other species behavior apply to ours. And sure people do choose to be a persecuted minority, often religious. I chose to be hetero because I prefer women. But if I happen to fall in love for a man, I would have nothing against pursuing that. Other species' behavior is of course relevant to humans - studies are performed on animals all the time to attempt to learn about their brains in an attempt to infer things about ours. It also shows that there is a biological component to homosexuality because most people believe animals don't have free will.
At best proves they don't give a shit. Perhaps we should too.
On May 11 2011 07:15 Bortlett wrote:
People choose to be a religious minority because for them they believe a certain religion answers many of life's most important questions. What would be the equivalent benefit for choosing to be gay
In both cases, because they prefer that answer to that of the majority. Also with nationalist, philosophical, political movements, etc. That was just an example.
On May 11 2011 07:15 Bortlett wrote:
Regarding your final point, since you say you chose to be hetero, were you ever sexually attracted to men? If so, did you choose to be sexually aroused by men? When you are sexually attracted to a woman, is that a conscious choice? Could you choose to be sexually aroused by somebody you are currently not attracted to?
Why this obsession with gender? I do hope that we are attracted to human beings, not a vagina or a penis, else I'll look for someone out of puberty to discuss with.
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Government: Don't tread on me, and don't ever tell me what to do. But damned if it's not government's job to regulate the behavior of people I don't agree with.
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On May 11 2011 03:42 HULKAMANIA wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 03:25 j0k3r wrote:On May 11 2011 02:54 TALegion wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I signed the petition, but:
I just thought of something. In a debate against abortion, one of the arguments is that only a person should be allowed to make decisions about herself (in this case, I refer to the child as part of the mother, without its own rights). So, if you're pro-choice, how can you eb against this? It isn't your country. It doesn't affect you. You don't know what's best, and you shouldn't try to assert your opinions on others, more or less force them.
Like I said, I signed the petition, but I find it mildly hypocritical. I support Gay Rights (imo, they have just as much right to be happy as anyone else), but I don't like the idea of trying to force my beliefs/opinions/culture onto another group of people, when I also claim to be pro-choice (where people make independent choices for themselves).
I disagree. An individual's freedom of choice must be protected. Fundamentally speaking, no majority should be able to take away a minority's ability to choose how to act or behave. There is clearly a standard of right and wrong. Objectively speaking, "right" morals, values, decisions etc. are ones that promote human advancement, reduce suffering and oppression, and maximize one's perceived happiness about the world.
Civilization cannot stand for ethical systems which are suboptimal, ones that restrict freedom of choice and cause suffering among the people who are subject to them.I find it reprehensible to not make a stand against oppressive laws and regimes. We must actively expose logical loopholes in people's reasoning, reasoning derived from religiously fueled hatred, and undermine their actions to cause harm to others. Would you not agree? Plainly, there are cases where it is the completely right thing to tell others what to do. Don't you think it's a little problematic to assume that one's own worldview is the one that is objectively, incontrovertibly right? I mean I'm with you on this issue. I signed the petition, but I don't see how the values you proposed are objective in any meaningful sense.
My thoughts exactly 
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EPT
