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On May 10 2011 18:37 Phonics wrote:Not to be an asshole but why is this getting so much attention with half a million people signing petitions when the whole continent of africa is a battleground in turmoil. Gay rights aren't exactly the biggest problem they have. The rest of the world has exploited Africa for hundreds of years and now people are getting on their hind legs about gay rights in a place that has gotten fucked by everyone for centuries. Jesus christ. 
Well according to what the petition site told me, they actually have a legit shot at convincing whoever signs that bill thing. Signing petitions won't conjure food or find an AIDS vaccine, but it sure can change this guy's mind.
But I get your point. You're trying to be the guy who says "But there are kids starving in africa" when people try to help local homeless people. Regardless, I agree with you, more attention should be directed towards the poverty/war/epidemics in Africa.
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Man thats really extreme, added my name to the list.
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On May 10 2011 18:41 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 18:36 W2 wrote:On May 10 2011 18:19 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 18:14 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 10 2011 18:10 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 18:06 HULKAMANIA wrote:
So one can either agree with you about homosexuality or they are harming children? That sounds to me like an exceptionally poor way to frame the disagreement, one that would be personally offensive to a lot of people. Yup, I say the same things about racism and sexism too! And I don't care if it offends you, or racists, or sexists. On May 10 2011 18:06 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Disapproving of homosexuality in the abstract does not inhere harming homosexual individuals in practice. There is such a thing as treating someone with respect and kindness even if you don't approve of things about them. I would say the capacity to do so is a cornerstone of emotional maturity and frankly a necessity of getting along with anyone for any length of time. If you understand that I fundamentally hold heterosexists in any form in the same regard as I hold racists, you will understand my feelings toward them. I don't mean to make it sound like my entire pro-gay argument stems from comparing people to racists, but it is a good way to simplify the justification for my unconditional disdain for anyone that holds anti-gay sentiments of any kind. I'll quote myself from earlier this week: On May 08 2011 15:22 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 08 2011 15:20 Uldridge wrote:Gender and race are not the same thing. Neither are sexism and racism. I couldn't agree more. It's just a golden rule of internet arguing that if you successfully compare something to Hitler or racism you win the argument.  Yes, comparisons to racism are common arguments in internet rhetoric. That doesn't mean they're invalid. I make that comparison because it should be an effective way of getting you to consider the reasons you hold your own beliefs and thus use your beliefs to better understand my own. When you understand why you hold people who are racist in any form in low regard, you will understand why I hold homophobic people in any form in low regard. You're taking offense too easily. Just because I don't condone their actions doesn't mean I'm hurting children. Where did you get this from? I treat them with the same respect. And to answer the second point, I don't care if you hold me in low regard. You're like the woman who yells at me for being sexist after opening the door for her. Again, don't take offense too easily! "I respect you, but I believe that this intrinsic part of who you are is morally wrong. Don't take offense too easily!" Okay. Also, I'm literally laughing out loud that you compare the view of homosexuality as sinful to holding a door open for a woman.
Sorry I didn't mean to get you so agitated. Let's just disagree with each other. You keep on telling people they are hurting children and I'll keep on with my religious bigotry lol.
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Reading through this thread really surprises me. Seems like people are being naive. The west is just a small part of the world and it's great that attention is being brought to this and that people want to do something about it but there're are people being oppressed all over the world.
O and you know you play too much starcraft when you mistype idea idra and then go to fix it but accidentally type idra again.
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back when rwj did an episode about this it was funny. At this point its just plain wrong, someone do something!
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While this is wrong. I don't see why ppl make such a big deal out of it when 6 other countries have been executing gay ppl for awhile.
Religious extremists do dumb shit, nothing new here.
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On May 10 2011 18:37 Phonics wrote:Not to be an asshole but why is this getting so much attention with half a million people signing petitions when the whole continent of africa is a battleground in turmoil. Gay rights aren't exactly the biggest problem they have. The rest of the world has exploited Africa for hundreds of years and now people are getting on their hind legs about gay rights in a place that has gotten fucked by everyone for centuries. Jesus christ.
come on dude... that's because something like world hunger isn't near as preventable as this
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One may not like homosexuality or homosexuals, but that does not give them the right to fucking execute them. This is an atrocity. I hope this bill is buried deep into history.
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If you're gay, straight, or anything in between, you should be opposed to this. 100%. If you're not then there is something fundamentally wrong with you.
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I cant know for sure what the situation is like in Uganda but Ive done a fair few travels to Ghana where homosexuality is frowned upon if not illegal.
The reasoning for this is actually alot more complicated than some of you guys want it to sound and is definatly not only a sympthom of "backwardsness" or "religious zealotry" - rather it has its roots in western, rich white people who come to these poor parts of Africa for sex with young boys. Anyone whos ever been to rural parts of African countries will know just how desperatly people are in need of cash - much like we know it from Thailand were the sexindustry with very young boys is an ever growing cashcow for some few sick people. Main difference being that its a far less known fact as theres not that many tourist in Africa as there are in Thailand for instance - so less people know about it.
I know this doesnt validate a law to execute homosexuals in any kind and especially not when its two men or women - for that matter - who on even foot decides to be intimate. However, I do hope that you realise that this is part of the reason as to why homosexuality really is viewed upon as a major offence.
A fun slightly unrelated fact is that public display of affection man and wife together is not something you see very much but two men who are good friends more often than not will walk hand in hand
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That is unbelievable, Voted.
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bill is real but i don't trust that petition
normally any site that asks for your cell phone number + zip code = automatic scam
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"three days earlier the Vatican legal attaché to the United Nations stated that "Pope Benedict is opposed to 'unjust discrimination' against gay men and lesbians""
even the pope is against this this bill
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On May 10 2011 14:24 0neder wrote:
I believe that acting on gay desires is morally wrong, but any sensible Christian can recognize that this law is quite misguided. I really hope it doesn't pass.
I thought people were born gay, how can it be morally wrong? Religion is what is making you confused, and religion is killing innocent people in Uganda.
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How has a thread on something everyone here surely agrees with (stopping this bill) turned into an argument?
/signed
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As ridiculous and narrow minded as this is, democracy is the will of the people. If most Ugandans want this, isnt it their decision? Many countries have laws that are ludicrous to me, is it our responsibility to instill our beliefs on law and order onto these countries? Not in my opinion.
Just for the record, i do not condone this whatsoever. Its medieval in my view.
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On May 10 2011 21:52 Calliopee wrote:I cant know for sure what the situation is like in Uganda but Ive done a fair few travels to Ghana where homosexuality is frowned upon if not illegal. The reasoning for this is actually alot more complicated than some of you guys want it to sound and is definatly not only a sympthom of "backwardsness" or "religious zealotry" - rather it has its roots in western, rich white people who come to these poor parts of Africa for sex with young boys. Anyone whos ever been to rural parts of African countries will know just how desperatly people are in need of cash - much like we know it from Thailand were the sexindustry with very young boys is an ever growing cashcow for some few sick people. Main difference being that its a far less known fact as theres not that many tourist in Africa as there are in Thailand for instance - so less people know about it. I know this doesnt validate a law to execute homosexuals in any kind and especially not when its two men or women - for that matter - who on even foot decides to be intimate. However, I do hope that you realise that this is part of the reason as to why homosexuality really is viewed upon as a major offence. A fun slightly unrelated fact is that public display of affection man and wife together is not something you see very much but two men who are good friends more often than not will walk hand in hand
Source that it would be due to sex tourism?
Now I can only say I've seen one documentary (not counting the bcc one posted in this thread) and most people in that one, that gave a reason for their homosexuality claimed it went against Christ. So I tend to believe it does have everything to do with religion in this case. Not saying that sex tourism doesn't exist in countries in Africa, cause it most certainly does - just as it does in every poor country (well, most countries in general, not only poor or underdeveloped ones).
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On May 10 2011 22:16 Aristodemus wrote:
As ridiculous and narrow minded as this is, democracy is the will of the people. If most Ugandans want this, isnt it their decision? Many countries have laws that are ludicrous to me, is it our responsibility to instill our beliefs on law and order onto these countries? Not in my opinion.
Just for the record, i do not condone this whatsoever. Its medieval in my view.
This is why most sensible countries aren't democracies. Look at the US for example. If 99% of them wanted this bill, could it pass? No, because their constitution would forbid it.
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On May 10 2011 22:20 Robstickle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 22:16 Aristodemus wrote:
As ridiculous and narrow minded as this is, democracy is the will of the people. If most Ugandans want this, isnt it their decision? Many countries have laws that are ludicrous to me, is it our responsibility to instill our beliefs on law and order onto these countries? Not in my opinion.
Just for the record, i do not condone this whatsoever. Its medieval in my view. This is why most sensible countries aren't democracies. Look at the US for example. If 99% of them wanted this bill, could it pass? No, because their constitution would forbid it.
Well, i do not know about the US, but most countries are able to change their constitutions with a large enough majority. I believe that for example 2/3 of the parliament need to agree to change the constitution here in Germany. And this is not just a theoretical possibility, i think the last change to the constitution they did was adding in some animal rights.
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EPT
