|
On a related note, I somehow feel very proud / happy about that real time counter showing both women and men from many different countries and cultures signing this.
|
Personally, I feel if this gets passed, a neighboring country will provide asylum for any homosexuals fleeing Uganda. I can't imagine them being left there to die.
|
Do you know what I think is disgusting?
The people who are posting on this thread with their little snipe comments about how they 'don't agree with homosexuality' or find gayness disgusting.
Sign the petition, don't take every opportunity to push your bullshit.
|
On May 10 2011 12:26 Rickilicious wrote:
Wow this is upsetting. Death penalty for liking doodles
voted.
isn't doodles some kind of food?
|
On May 10 2011 18:19 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 18:14 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 10 2011 18:10 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 18:06 HULKAMANIA wrote:
So one can either agree with you about homosexuality or they are harming children? That sounds to me like an exceptionally poor way to frame the disagreement, one that would be personally offensive to a lot of people. Yup, I say the same things about racism and sexism too! And I don't care if it offends you, or racists, or sexists. On May 10 2011 18:06 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Disapproving of homosexuality in the abstract does not inhere harming homosexual individuals in practice. There is such a thing as treating someone with respect and kindness even if you don't approve of things about them. I would say the capacity to do so is a cornerstone of emotional maturity and frankly a necessity of getting along with anyone for any length of time. If you understand that I fundamentally hold heterosexists in any form in the same regard as I hold racists, you will understand my feelings toward them. I don't mean to make it sound like my entire pro-gay argument stems from comparing people to racists, but it is a good way to simplify the justification for my unconditional disdain for anyone that holds anti-gay sentiments of any kind. I'll quote myself from earlier this week: On May 08 2011 15:22 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 08 2011 15:20 Uldridge wrote:Gender and race are not the same thing. Neither are sexism and racism. I couldn't agree more. It's just a golden rule of internet arguing that if you successfully compare something to Hitler or racism you win the argument.  How does this support your argument? I make that comparison because it should be an effective way of getting you to consider the reasons you hold your own beliefs and thus use your beliefs to better understand my own. When you understand why you hold people who are racist in any form in low regard, you will understand why I hold homophobic people in any form in low regard.
I did not quote myself to support my argument, only to point out that the compare-it-to-racism strategy is the new argumentum ad Hiltlerum and that it's just not something I can take very seriously.
As for me, I understand exactly why I hold racism in low regard. But it is important to note that I don't despise racists, which I think is a key distinction between my position and yours. As I said before, there is such a thing as treating people with respect and kindness even if you don't agree with them—even though the more popular course of action is to tolerate that which you find tolerable and embrace a pluralistic diversity of opinion to exact degree with which one is personally comfortable.
|
On May 10 2011 16:45 abominare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 16:02 probob wrote:On May 10 2011 14:59 abominare wrote:
Well it is uganda...
This is why no one takes africa seriously, the whole continent has been a shit whole for nearly 3 thousand years.
User was warned for this post Oh so insulting a whole continent of people and being a racist bigot only gets you a warning? Really? USA and rich european countries exploited Africa for its natural ressources since we first set foot on the continent. We buy their ressources for a cheap price and export them unnecessary goods, just to maintain our lifestyle and have all those petty little things in our lifes, while africans starve to death and no one even cares. They fight for scraps from a table of a system that keeps them oppressed, while we live in infinity. Were only gonna die of our own Arrogance. @topic: Ofc its wrong. I signed the petition, also with a spam email account. =D I'm not sure how I'm a racist bigot now, but other than the north eastern portion of the continent which desperately leaps to be claimed as part of the middle east, the continent is by and large a huge freaking wreck. We can go on and on and on about all the problems in africa both from internal issues and external issues but let me ask you this, how quickly would you move to africa? You wouldn't the place is a freaking nightmare, and was even before the western influences came back, the place can literally hold a claim on being the birthplace of slavery. Since you took such a wonderful leap into calling me a racists, some history. The large tragic movement of slaves brought in from africa were by in large part contracted from actual african residents. Slavery was still going strong in africa (and in some respects in certain areas still very much alive) at the time and most slaves bound for america had been slaves for many years on their home continent. Infact theres a lot of really interesting lectures from prominent black leadership of the reconstruction era expounding on the sort of strange irony they would of been born slaves even in africa. Of course since I'm such a racist bigot, I opted for all my university history credits to come from African American history studies instead of traditional history classes. So yes, in light of the horrible problems surrounding the continent I was not surprised that Uganda and other nearby countries were willing to put people to death for homosexuality, in fact this goes on in plenty of other african nations we like to forget about. I furthermore still stand on my claim the place is a disaster zone. Furthermore on the economics of africa as having my degree in finance and opting for my finance electives to have a focus on economies of developing nations in africa, since you know I'm such a fucking white southern hill billy racist. The vast majority of natural resources in africa go largely untouched for various political instability and infrastructure deficiencies. No one sits around and tells them they only get half of what everyone else gets for diamonds/oil/lumber (well in some cases they intentionally have to undercut competition by larger margins since the massive instability of the area makes people uneasy to set up long term contracts), and they can only buy 'unnecessary goods', theres a hole slew of internal corruption and poor societal choices going on here. By and large the countries here don't even have the means to even extract the complex resources at their disposal and with legislation like this, and the other million problems in the area, few companies are willing to invest in operation theres, thus much of the population relies on low tech production means. Serious agriculture planning issues aside, its not exactly surprising they get paid very little for agriculture products when having to compete with fully modernized farms and actually functioning regulatory systems. Yes theres a few economies here and there that are pushing forward better but its more of a by comparison story. I'm not saying africa is in the situation it is in on their own merit alone, we certainly didnt help for a long time, and it'll be an even longer time before the place can come to grips with its own identity.
Ok I apologize for calling you a racist, but your first post made the impression to me like you blame the african people for being poor and making their continent a shithole like you said, which made me thought you think that they are somewhat inferior people, not being able to care for themselves etc.
( you being warned seems like others read it also that way).
However this post makes a lot more sense to me and Im glad you dont think the way I thought you were thinking. I guess its a misunderstanding. Please note Im not a native english speaker so maybe my choice of words wasnt the best 
What I was trying to say though is, that we inflicted poverty on them first, and out of poverty things like corruption or violence to their own people (like you said with the slavetraders) arise, so maybe Africa would be a totally different continent today if it wasnt colonized and exploited.
I understand the points about economics you were making like most of the continent not being an attractive place to invest for outside companies and that the agriculture simply cant compete with modernized farms and I appreciate your input. But how come, if you say your putting your focus on economies of developing countries in Africa as a job, that you think so low of the continent or why do you put your focus there?
Btw you quoted me twice and Im glad you still make a happyface
|
|
|
On May 10 2011 17:55 Halcyondaze wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 17:44 BasedSwag wrote:On May 10 2011 17:37 Halcyondaze wrote:On May 10 2011 17:28 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 17:20 Halcyondaze wrote:On May 10 2011 17:17 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 17:15 Halcyondaze wrote:On May 10 2011 17:05 matjlav wrote:
Blah. I just don't get homophobia at all. Even when I was under 10 years old and had no idea I might be gay, I was still really bewildered when I found out that Christians were supposed to be against gay people. That may have just been a result of me drawing connections between that situation and the anti-racism education everyone my age received in elementary school, but I just cannot relate to this apparently universal urge to marginalize and hate certain groups of people against all evidence.
Bah, people are dumb, and it seems so hopeless to bother trying to change them. Saying Christians are against gay people is a very vague statement. I am a christian and in my opinion on the homosexual community is that they are sinning, just like I do everyday when I lie, steal, take God's name in vain, and a vast number of things. I do not look down upon homosexuals at all, just like I don't look down on somebody who I see lie. I have gay friends, and they know I oppose their beliefs, but I do not claim they are going to hell, or are a bad person for who am I to judge? In my opinion God will judge us all on our sins and just as he says no sin is greater than another. I try my best to love all people, but when I don't, and I "hate" someone, I feel I have sinned. Sin is something that everybody thinks Christians look upon as if they never see it, or experience it. But Christians that I associate with, and the way I believe it is that Christians sin just as much as non-Christians, but we do our best to repent for them and show others that God can take those sins and completely take them away from you. Yeah, I know that now, but I'm talking from the perspective of how I was raised and how I perceived these things when I was growing up and being indoctrinated. Ah, I see. Sorry for the rant, lol. Just something I am passionate about. Nowadays Christians have a bad reputation, especially on the internet and the media. I just want to state my way of thinking so people at least know some Christians aren't bigots Don't get me wrong - even if you "don't hate homosexuals," I still take very personal offense to anyone that considers homosexuality wrong. Opinions like yours, no matter how passive-aggressive and "loving," serve only to increase the pain that kids growing up gay have to go through. You can't just say "I love them anyway" and act like all of the hurtful consequences of your beliefs go away. I don't mean to derail the topic, but yeah. You may not be as bad as the folks in Uganda, but you are still hurting people in significant ways. And Herein lies our problem. You believe that kids can "grow up gay". While I don't. And what do you expect me to do? Abandon my own beliefs to cater to others? I am as steadfast in my beliefs as you are in yours. I am not here to make people's lives easier. In my opinion I am on this earth to share what I know, which I just did. You can take it or leave it, but that is how I feel. What have I done to hurt these kids, if they do grow up gay as you say? Live my life? I don't walk up to people and insult them for being gay. This argument you have with my beliefs is not with me, but with my religion. And again, see this from my perspective. If you (in your eyes) had the key to "eternal life", would you not share it? Why don't you believe that kids can be born gay? Homosexuality is documented in too many animal species for me to list, you can no longer argue that it's not a natural occurrence. You have no evidence that what you believe is true (other than what you read in some ancient book), but people who believe otherwise do. And what you have done to the kids by subscribing to this religious view is that they are inherently 'evil' and that it's their own fault for being gay (and evil). The reason I don't believe kids can be born gay is because my end all be all source of information is the faith I have in the Bible. You can call me ignorant, or whatever, but that is what I believe. I also don't believe anyone is inherently evil, but that sin is evil and it affects every one of us. I am not going to get into a debate on whether homosexuality is a natural occurrence or not because that is a black hole of an argument. When you can prove to me how the world began without a supreme being, then you have changed my mind, but until then, this is my opinion.
Then stop eating shellfish.
They are an abomination. (according to your supreme being)
No prawns, no crabs, no lobsters....... oh so sad.
|
On May 10 2011 18:19 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 18:14 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 10 2011 18:10 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 18:06 HULKAMANIA wrote:
So one can either agree with you about homosexuality or they are harming children? That sounds to me like an exceptionally poor way to frame the disagreement, one that would be personally offensive to a lot of people. Yup, I say the same things about racism and sexism too! And I don't care if it offends you, or racists, or sexists. On May 10 2011 18:06 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Disapproving of homosexuality in the abstract does not inhere harming homosexual individuals in practice. There is such a thing as treating someone with respect and kindness even if you don't approve of things about them. I would say the capacity to do so is a cornerstone of emotional maturity and frankly a necessity of getting along with anyone for any length of time. If you understand that I fundamentally hold heterosexists in any form in the same regard as I hold racists, you will understand my feelings toward them. I don't mean to make it sound like my entire pro-gay argument stems from comparing people to racists, but it is a good way to simplify the justification for my unconditional disdain for anyone that holds anti-gay sentiments of any kind. I'll quote myself from earlier this week: On May 08 2011 15:22 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 08 2011 15:20 Uldridge wrote:Gender and race are not the same thing. Neither are sexism and racism. I couldn't agree more. It's just a golden rule of internet arguing that if you successfully compare something to Hitler or racism you win the argument. Yes, comparisons to racism are common arguments in internet rhetoric. That doesn't mean they're invalid. I make that comparison because it should be an effective way of getting you to consider the reasons you hold your own beliefs and thus use your beliefs to better understand my own. When you understand why you hold people who are racist in any form in low regard, you will understand why I hold homophobic people in any form in low regard.
You're taking offense too easily. Just because I don't condone their actions doesn't mean I'm hurting children. Where did you get this from? I treat them with the same respect.
And to answer the second point, I don't care if you hold me in low regard. You're like the woman who yells at me for being sexist after opening the door for her. Again, don't take offense too easily!
|
On May 10 2011 18:28 HULKAMANIA wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 18:19 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 18:14 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 10 2011 18:10 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 18:06 HULKAMANIA wrote:
So one can either agree with you about homosexuality or they are harming children? That sounds to me like an exceptionally poor way to frame the disagreement, one that would be personally offensive to a lot of people. Yup, I say the same things about racism and sexism too! And I don't care if it offends you, or racists, or sexists. On May 10 2011 18:06 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Disapproving of homosexuality in the abstract does not inhere harming homosexual individuals in practice. There is such a thing as treating someone with respect and kindness even if you don't approve of things about them. I would say the capacity to do so is a cornerstone of emotional maturity and frankly a necessity of getting along with anyone for any length of time. If you understand that I fundamentally hold heterosexists in any form in the same regard as I hold racists, you will understand my feelings toward them. I don't mean to make it sound like my entire pro-gay argument stems from comparing people to racists, but it is a good way to simplify the justification for my unconditional disdain for anyone that holds anti-gay sentiments of any kind. I'll quote myself from earlier this week: On May 08 2011 15:22 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 08 2011 15:20 Uldridge wrote:Gender and race are not the same thing. Neither are sexism and racism. I couldn't agree more. It's just a golden rule of internet arguing that if you successfully compare something to Hitler or racism you win the argument. How does this support your argument? I make that comparison because it should be an effective way of getting you to consider the reasons you hold your own beliefs and thus use your beliefs to better understand my own. When you understand why you hold people who are racist in any form in low regard, you will understand why I hold homophobic people in any form in low regard. I did not quote myself to support my argument, only to point out that the compare-it-to-racism strategy is the new argumentum ad Hiltlerum and that it's just not something I can take very seriously. As for me, I understand exactly why I hold racists in low regard. But it is important to note that I don't despise racists, which I think is a key distinction between my position and yours. As I said before, there is such a thing as treating people with respect and kindness even if you don't agree with them—even though the more popular course of action is to tolerate that which you find tolerable and embrace a pluralistic diversity of opinion to exact degree with which one is personally comfortable.
Finding someone's beliefs personally offensive and harmful isn't the same thing as despising the person, so there goes that strawman.
And I'm sure that you have a whole host of beliefs for which you think that the opposing opinion should be eradicated - I won't name "racism" because apparently you use that as an opportunity to write off your opponent's argument without justification, but I'll let you come up with your own examples. There are some issues so blatantly one-sided that they do not deserve a diversity of opinion.
|
Not to be an asshole but why is this getting so much attention with half a million people signing petitions when the whole continent of africa is a battleground in turmoil. Gay rights aren't exactly the biggest problem they have.
The rest of the world has exploited Africa for hundreds of years and now people are getting on their hind legs about gay rights in a place that has gotten fucked by everyone for centuries. Jesus christ.
|
On May 10 2011 18:37 Phonics wrote:Not to be an asshole but why is this getting so much attention with half a million people signing petitions when the whole continent of africa is a battleground in turmoil. Gay rights aren't exactly the biggest problem they have. The rest of the world has exploited Africa for hundreds of years and now people are getting on their hind legs about gay rights in a place that has gotten fucked by everyone for centuries. Jesus christ.
And it's about time something is properly done about it. We may as well start with this, one only hopes it doesn't just go onto the back-burner like so many other things tend to do.
|
On May 10 2011 18:37 Phonics wrote:Not to be an asshole but why is this getting so much attention with half a million people signing petitions when the whole continent of africa is a battleground in turmoil. Gay rights aren't exactly the biggest problem they have. The rest of the world has exploited Africa for hundreds of years and now people are getting on their hind legs about gay rights in a place that has gotten fucked by everyone for centuries. Jesus christ.
Gotta agree, never the less I still e-signed it.
|
On May 10 2011 18:36 W2 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 18:19 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 18:14 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 10 2011 18:10 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 18:06 HULKAMANIA wrote:
So one can either agree with you about homosexuality or they are harming children? That sounds to me like an exceptionally poor way to frame the disagreement, one that would be personally offensive to a lot of people. Yup, I say the same things about racism and sexism too! And I don't care if it offends you, or racists, or sexists. On May 10 2011 18:06 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Disapproving of homosexuality in the abstract does not inhere harming homosexual individuals in practice. There is such a thing as treating someone with respect and kindness even if you don't approve of things about them. I would say the capacity to do so is a cornerstone of emotional maturity and frankly a necessity of getting along with anyone for any length of time. If you understand that I fundamentally hold heterosexists in any form in the same regard as I hold racists, you will understand my feelings toward them. I don't mean to make it sound like my entire pro-gay argument stems from comparing people to racists, but it is a good way to simplify the justification for my unconditional disdain for anyone that holds anti-gay sentiments of any kind. I'll quote myself from earlier this week: On May 08 2011 15:22 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 08 2011 15:20 Uldridge wrote:Gender and race are not the same thing. Neither are sexism and racism. I couldn't agree more. It's just a golden rule of internet arguing that if you successfully compare something to Hitler or racism you win the argument. Yes, comparisons to racism are common arguments in internet rhetoric. That doesn't mean they're invalid. I make that comparison because it should be an effective way of getting you to consider the reasons you hold your own beliefs and thus use your beliefs to better understand my own. When you understand why you hold people who are racist in any form in low regard, you will understand why I hold homophobic people in any form in low regard. You're taking offense too easily. Just because I don't condone their actions doesn't mean I'm hurting children. Where did you get this from? I treat them with the same respect. And to answer the second point, I don't care if you hold me in low regard. You're like the woman who yells at me for being sexist after opening the door for her. Again, don't take offense too easily!
"I respect you, but I believe that this intrinsic part of who you are is morally wrong. Don't take offense too easily!"
Okay.
Also, I'm literally laughing out loud that you compare the view of homosexuality as sinful to holding a door open for a woman.
|
On May 10 2011 18:36 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 18:28 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 10 2011 18:19 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 18:14 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 10 2011 18:10 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 18:06 HULKAMANIA wrote:
So one can either agree with you about homosexuality or they are harming children? That sounds to me like an exceptionally poor way to frame the disagreement, one that would be personally offensive to a lot of people. Yup, I say the same things about racism and sexism too! And I don't care if it offends you, or racists, or sexists. On May 10 2011 18:06 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Disapproving of homosexuality in the abstract does not inhere harming homosexual individuals in practice. There is such a thing as treating someone with respect and kindness even if you don't approve of things about them. I would say the capacity to do so is a cornerstone of emotional maturity and frankly a necessity of getting along with anyone for any length of time. If you understand that I fundamentally hold heterosexists in any form in the same regard as I hold racists, you will understand my feelings toward them. I don't mean to make it sound like my entire pro-gay argument stems from comparing people to racists, but it is a good way to simplify the justification for my unconditional disdain for anyone that holds anti-gay sentiments of any kind. I'll quote myself from earlier this week: On May 08 2011 15:22 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 08 2011 15:20 Uldridge wrote:Gender and race are not the same thing. Neither are sexism and racism. I couldn't agree more. It's just a golden rule of internet arguing that if you successfully compare something to Hitler or racism you win the argument. How does this support your argument? I make that comparison because it should be an effective way of getting you to consider the reasons you hold your own beliefs and thus use your beliefs to better understand my own. When you understand why you hold people who are racist in any form in low regard, you will understand why I hold homophobic people in any form in low regard. I did not quote myself to support my argument, only to point out that the compare-it-to-racism strategy is the new argumentum ad Hiltlerum and that it's just not something I can take very seriously. As for me, I understand exactly why I hold racists in low regard. But it is important to note that I don't despise racists, which I think is a key distinction between my position and yours. As I said before, there is such a thing as treating people with respect and kindness even if you don't agree with them—even though the more popular course of action is to tolerate that which you find tolerable and embrace a pluralistic diversity of opinion to exact degree with which one is personally comfortable. Finding someone's beliefs personally offensive and harmful isn't the same thing as despising the person, so there goes that strawman.
So what you're saying is that you can disagree with someone without despising them? Preposterous!
And I'm sure that you have a whole host of beliefs for which you think that the opposing opinion should be eradicated - I won't name "racism" because apparently you use that as an opportunity to write off your opponent's argument without justification, but I'll let you come up with your own examples.
I suppose maybe in a way. Personally I'm not really into eradicating opposing opinions. I think performing a sort of dialectic with the other side is a much healthier way to handle difference of opinion than eradication.
|
On May 10 2011 12:32 Empyrean wrote:
Other countries should introduce bills that require capital punishment for being Ugandan.
Seriously?
|
On May 10 2011 18:45 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 12:32 Empyrean wrote:
Other countries should introduce bills that require capital punishment for being Ugandan. Seriously?
Actually, call it a hunch, but I don't think he was being 100% serious.
|
On May 10 2011 18:42 HULKAMANIA wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 18:36 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 18:28 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 10 2011 18:19 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 18:14 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 10 2011 18:10 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 18:06 HULKAMANIA wrote:
So one can either agree with you about homosexuality or they are harming children? That sounds to me like an exceptionally poor way to frame the disagreement, one that would be personally offensive to a lot of people. Yup, I say the same things about racism and sexism too! And I don't care if it offends you, or racists, or sexists. On May 10 2011 18:06 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Disapproving of homosexuality in the abstract does not inhere harming homosexual individuals in practice. There is such a thing as treating someone with respect and kindness even if you don't approve of things about them. I would say the capacity to do so is a cornerstone of emotional maturity and frankly a necessity of getting along with anyone for any length of time. If you understand that I fundamentally hold heterosexists in any form in the same regard as I hold racists, you will understand my feelings toward them. I don't mean to make it sound like my entire pro-gay argument stems from comparing people to racists, but it is a good way to simplify the justification for my unconditional disdain for anyone that holds anti-gay sentiments of any kind. I'll quote myself from earlier this week: On May 08 2011 15:22 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 08 2011 15:20 Uldridge wrote:Gender and race are not the same thing. Neither are sexism and racism. I couldn't agree more. It's just a golden rule of internet arguing that if you successfully compare something to Hitler or racism you win the argument. How does this support your argument? I make that comparison because it should be an effective way of getting you to consider the reasons you hold your own beliefs and thus use your beliefs to better understand my own. When you understand why you hold people who are racist in any form in low regard, you will understand why I hold homophobic people in any form in low regard. I did not quote myself to support my argument, only to point out that the compare-it-to-racism strategy is the new argumentum ad Hiltlerum and that it's just not something I can take very seriously. As for me, I understand exactly why I hold racists in low regard. But it is important to note that I don't despise racists, which I think is a key distinction between my position and yours. As I said before, there is such a thing as treating people with respect and kindness even if you don't agree with them—even though the more popular course of action is to tolerate that which you find tolerable and embrace a pluralistic diversity of opinion to exact degree with which one is personally comfortable. Finding someone's beliefs personally offensive and harmful isn't the same thing as despising the person, so there goes that strawman. So what you're saying is that you can disagree with someone without despising them? Preposterous!
Uh... you're acting victorious after your strawman was pointed out? Seriously?
Yes, I am saying that, because I was never arguing otherwise. Your style of argument is making my brain hurt.
On May 10 2011 18:42 HULKAMANIA wrote:Show nested quote +And I'm sure that you have a whole host of beliefs for which you think that the opposing opinion should be eradicated - I won't name "racism" because apparently you use that as an opportunity to write off your opponent's argument without justification, but I'll let you come up with your own examples. I suppose maybe in a way. Personally I'm not really into eradicating opposing opinions. I think performing a sort of dialectic with the other side is a much healthier way to handle difference of opinion than eradication.
Do you believe Naziism is an opinion that should exist? (Yes, I know it's a reductio ad Hitlerium and OMG THAT'S AUTOMATICALLY INVALID AND LAUGHABLE, but just answer the question. Humor me.)
|
i have to say i dislike gayness BUT !!! death penalty ? or even any penalty ? its THEIR lives so sure i sign because thats not human ! and i twitter this hope they stop it 
|
On May 10 2011 18:48 matjlav wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 18:42 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 10 2011 18:36 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 18:28 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 10 2011 18:19 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 18:14 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 10 2011 18:10 matjlav wrote:On May 10 2011 18:06 HULKAMANIA wrote:
So one can either agree with you about homosexuality or they are harming children? That sounds to me like an exceptionally poor way to frame the disagreement, one that would be personally offensive to a lot of people. Yup, I say the same things about racism and sexism too! And I don't care if it offends you, or racists, or sexists. On May 10 2011 18:06 HULKAMANIA wrote:
Disapproving of homosexuality in the abstract does not inhere harming homosexual individuals in practice. There is such a thing as treating someone with respect and kindness even if you don't approve of things about them. I would say the capacity to do so is a cornerstone of emotional maturity and frankly a necessity of getting along with anyone for any length of time. If you understand that I fundamentally hold heterosexists in any form in the same regard as I hold racists, you will understand my feelings toward them. I don't mean to make it sound like my entire pro-gay argument stems from comparing people to racists, but it is a good way to simplify the justification for my unconditional disdain for anyone that holds anti-gay sentiments of any kind. I'll quote myself from earlier this week: On May 08 2011 15:22 HULKAMANIA wrote:On May 08 2011 15:20 Uldridge wrote:Gender and race are not the same thing. Neither are sexism and racism. I couldn't agree more. It's just a golden rule of internet arguing that if you successfully compare something to Hitler or racism you win the argument. How does this support your argument? I make that comparison because it should be an effective way of getting you to consider the reasons you hold your own beliefs and thus use your beliefs to better understand my own. When you understand why you hold people who are racist in any form in low regard, you will understand why I hold homophobic people in any form in low regard. I did not quote myself to support my argument, only to point out that the compare-it-to-racism strategy is the new argumentum ad Hiltlerum and that it's just not something I can take very seriously. As for me, I understand exactly why I hold racists in low regard. But it is important to note that I don't despise racists, which I think is a key distinction between my position and yours. As I said before, there is such a thing as treating people with respect and kindness even if you don't agree with them—even though the more popular course of action is to tolerate that which you find tolerable and embrace a pluralistic diversity of opinion to exact degree with which one is personally comfortable. Finding someone's beliefs personally offensive and harmful isn't the same thing as despising the person, so there goes that strawman. So what you're saying is that you can disagree with someone without despising them? Preposterous! Uh... you're acting victorious after your strawman was pointed out? Seriously? Yes, I am saying that, because I was never arguing otherwise. Your style of argument is making my brain hurt. Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 18:42 HULKAMANIA wrote:And I'm sure that you have a whole host of beliefs for which you think that the opposing opinion should be eradicated - I won't name "racism" because apparently you use that as an opportunity to write off your opponent's argument without justification, but I'll let you come up with your own examples. I suppose maybe in a way. Personally I'm not really into eradicating opposing opinions. I think performing a sort of dialectic with the other side is a much healthier way to handle difference of opinion than eradication. Do you believe Naziism is an opinion that should exist? (Yes, I know it's a reductio ad Hitlerium and OMG THAT'S AUTOMATICALLY INVALID AND LAUGHABLE, but just answer the question. Humor me.)
In the interest of sparing you further brain hurt, I'm discontinuing my side of this discussion.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
