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On May 11 2011 00:17 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 21:52 Calliopee wrote:I cant know for sure what the situation is like in Uganda but Ive done a fair few travels to Ghana where homosexuality is frowned upon if not illegal. The reasoning for this is actually alot more complicated than some of you guys want it to sound and is definatly not only a sympthom of "backwardsness" or "religious zealotry" - rather it has its roots in western, rich white people who come to these poor parts of Africa for sex with young boys. Anyone whos ever been to rural parts of African countries will know just how desperatly people are in need of cash - much like we know it from Thailand were the sexindustry with very young boys is an ever growing cashcow for some few sick people. Main difference being that its a far less known fact as theres not that many tourist in Africa as there are in Thailand for instance - so less people know about it. I know this doesnt validate a law to execute homosexuals in any kind and especially not when its two men or women - for that matter - who on even foot decides to be intimate. However, I do hope that you realise that this is part of the reason as to why homosexuality really is viewed upon as a major offence. A fun slightly unrelated fact is that public display of affection man and wife together is not something you see very much but two men who are good friends more often than not will walk hand in hand  I think you deserve a round of applause for how gracefully you managed to blame white people and free the Uganda population of any blame. How about we just treat African people as equalls and don't pretend like they aren't responsible for their own actions. The truth is that the Ugandese people are incredibly homophobic and this is derived from their religion (christians). Mixed with poor people being more likely to be extreme since there isn't anything to lose and you have a country filled with people that aren't being played or tricked but honestly want to murder homosexuals from their own desire.
I sincerely apologize if thats how you understood my post - english is not my first language. I'm not trying to relief the population from responsibility. My point was merely that there is more to the homophobia in some african countries than just religious matters.
On the part of "christianity" as the root for this, I highly recommend you dont think of it in absolute truths. In many african nations you will find that rural areas have a ton of different congretations with different preachers and therefore different "truths". Sure they might be derived somewhat from the puritan christanity we in Europe declared death centuries ago, but alot of them are subject to a few select preachers interpretations.
Don't get me wrong, I think this law is horrendous but I've always believed that you can't judge people without understanding where they're coming from and all of the emotional socio/economic aspects that would play a part in a matter such as this.
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On May 11 2011 02:03 supwidit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 01:52 MrBadMan wrote:
I fully support Uganda's politics in this matter, and I'm not trolling either. The homosexual orientation is a mental disease that needs to be treated, homosexual acts are crimes that need to be punished.
Evil can not be tolerated. u must be trolling but.. you fully support that people suffering a(as you put it) "mental disease" deserve the death penalty?
They will not be subject to the death penalty in Uganda, you might want to inform yourself before you voice your opinion.
The homosexual act needs to be punished by law. The act in itself is a crime that needs to be punished. A society that fails to hold its destructive forces in check eventually destroys itself from within.
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On May 10 2011 12:26 EtherealDeath wrote:
Wtf is this shit, I understand people have varying opinions on homosexuality, but giving it the death penalty is a bit ridiculous.
You can understand that? Really? What opinion other than "there is nothing wrong with being (and practicing) gay" is one that people can understandably have?
Ontopic: I am kind of sceptic about the chances of Uganda caring about such a petition. Let's hope it helps though.
Also isn't being gay punishable by death in a lot of countries? What makes Uganda so special? It wasn't really the go-to place for gays as it was or?
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I am 100% for this bill.
User was banned for this post.
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On May 11 2011 02:07 MrBadMan wrote:
A society that fails to hold its destructive forces in check eventually destroys itself from within.
Like getting too many children and die by overpopulation? Seems like accepting homosexuality is a pretty good way to at least reign it in a bit.
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On May 11 2011 02:07 MrBadMan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 02:03 supwidit wrote:On May 11 2011 01:52 MrBadMan wrote:
I fully support Uganda's politics in this matter, and I'm not trolling either. The homosexual orientation is a mental disease that needs to be treated, homosexual acts are crimes that need to be punished.
Evil can not be tolerated. u must be trolling but.. you fully support that people suffering a(as you put it) "mental disease" deserve the death penalty? They will not be subject to the death penalty in Uganda, you might want to inform yourself before you voice your opinion.
They will if this bill passes.
On May 11 2011 02:07 MrBadMan wrote:
The homosexual act needs to be punished by law. The act in itself is a crime that needs to be punished. A society that fails to hold its destructive forces in check eventually destroys itself from within.
Homosexuality is not destructive.
How do you justify the claim that homosexuality in itself is a crime that needs to be punished?
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the world is so confusing; i just woke up and this thread is making me want to go back in bed. video games used to be an outlet to shut my brain off - but with SC2 and my finding of TL, thats not really possible anymore. i dont know how you guys manage but props. turning up the music i guess 
le sigh
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So I just watched the Bahati interview that someone posted earlier, and I am linking below:
+ Show Spoiler [part1] +
+ Show Spoiler [part2] +
+ Show Spoiler [part3] +
If he is being truthful, and I see no reason why he might not be despite his quaint mannerisms, then it becomes very understandable, though at the same time very abhorrent. Think of Sharia law. Let's look at two examples which probably seem rather strange and oppressive to many of us - in some Muslim countries, conversion away from Islam and alcoholism are considered hudud crimes and therefore (in certain countries) is punishable by death. This seems pretty insane to us, but that's their opinion and they do it because it is their country, and is probably quite the majority option there.
That's how Bahati works. He is taking a very traditional interpretation of the Bible, which really does suggest that homosexuality is a sin and punishable by death - in fact Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by God with all its inhabitants precisely for that reason in the Old Testament. Apparently, according to him, 90% of Ugandan share his religious interpretation and fervor. If so, and their will is to set their temporal laws in accordance with and along the laws which are either prescribed or was at one point enforced by God, then that is their will and it is their country, and so this bill would not seem crazy to them - you wouldn't even have to introduce the whole "save the children" monologue.
Curiously, Bahati says that a lot of the money going into "gay indoctrination" is coming from the West, although the way he describes it makes it sound more like "understanding gay people" rather than "gay indoctrination/recruiting".
Of course, we are free to get our politicians to put pressure on Uganda if we don't agree with them (imo this bill is insane and against human rights, although Bahati says your sexual orientation is not a human right in Uganda and therefore is subordinate to the law). Fuck sovereignty, the world has always been about personal interests counterplaying each other anyways.
p.s. I don't actually think Bahati is crazy or "demonic"/oppressive in any way, in the traditional sense of the world. It's his beliefs that are that way to me, and he acts on them logically more or less like how we act on our own beliefs.
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On May 11 2011 02:06 Calliopee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 00:17 zalz wrote:On May 10 2011 21:52 Calliopee wrote:I cant know for sure what the situation is like in Uganda but Ive done a fair few travels to Ghana where homosexuality is frowned upon if not illegal. The reasoning for this is actually alot more complicated than some of you guys want it to sound and is definatly not only a sympthom of "backwardsness" or "religious zealotry" - rather it has its roots in western, rich white people who come to these poor parts of Africa for sex with young boys. Anyone whos ever been to rural parts of African countries will know just how desperatly people are in need of cash - much like we know it from Thailand were the sexindustry with very young boys is an ever growing cashcow for some few sick people. Main difference being that its a far less known fact as theres not that many tourist in Africa as there are in Thailand for instance - so less people know about it. I know this doesnt validate a law to execute homosexuals in any kind and especially not when its two men or women - for that matter - who on even foot decides to be intimate. However, I do hope that you realise that this is part of the reason as to why homosexuality really is viewed upon as a major offence. A fun slightly unrelated fact is that public display of affection man and wife together is not something you see very much but two men who are good friends more often than not will walk hand in hand I think you deserve a round of applause for how gracefully you managed to blame white people and free the Uganda population of any blame. How about we just treat African people as equalls and don't pretend like they aren't responsible for their own actions. The truth is that the Ugandese people are incredibly homophobic and this is derived from their religion (christians). Mixed with poor people being more likely to be extreme since there isn't anything to lose and you have a country filled with people that aren't being played or tricked but honestly want to murder homosexuals from their own desire. I sincerely apologize if thats how you understood my post - english is not my first language. I'm not trying to relief the population from responsibility. My point was merely that there is more to the homophobia in some african countries than just religious matters. On the part of "christianity" as the root for this, I highly recommend you dont think of it in absolute truths. In many african nations you will find that rural areas have a ton of different congretations with different preachers and therefore different "truths". Sure they might be derived somewhat from the puritan christanity we in Europe declared death centuries ago, but alot of them are subject to a few select preachers interpretations. Don't get me wrong, I think this law is horrendous but I've always believed that you can't judge people without understanding where they're coming from and all of the emotional socio/economic aspects that would play a part in a matter such as this.
Homosexuals are an abomination, so writes the bible. I really wish people could be honest but in their defense of religion they even deny what is written in the holy books themselves. The bible isn't doubtfull in how homosexuals should be treated, they should be killed according to the bible.
This country is 84% christian, but for no other reason then you wanting it to be so, religion isn't to blame. These people follow a book that literally says "kill homosexuals" and somehow it's not that, it's something else.
The church itself remains quiet on the matter. Speaking of peace and love in public whilst permitting murder in reality. The churches opinion would weigh a lot in Uganda, but the church won't speak out.
Religion could show that it's not just a force or destruction and oppression if the vatican condemmed the government of Uganda for passing this. Will they? They won't. They will stop and think to themselves that it's just homosexuals that are getting killed and what does the church give about that? They don't give a damn.
Time to look past the 200 year old fake christian story of love and peace and see what it will do in reality. Today the church can stop this, but if i had to make a bet, they aren't going to do shit. They will let those people die and they won't lose a day sleep about it.
People need to stop pretending that religion doesn't have anything to do with this. Religion has everything to do with this. It is the problem and it could be the cure. But it won't be, because at it's core even a self-proclaimed modern religion like christianity will revel in the murder of homosexuals.
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Don't get me wrong, I signed the petition, but:
I just thought of something. In a debate against abortion, one of the arguments is that only a person should be allowed to make decisions about herself (in this case, I refer to the child as part of the mother, without its own rights). So, if you're pro-choice, how can you eb against this? It isn't your country. It doesn't affect you. You don't know what's best, and you shouldn't try to assert your opinions on others, more or less force them.
Like I said, I signed the petition, but I find it mildly hypocritical. I support Gay Rights (imo, they have just as much right to be happy as anyone else), but I don't like the idea of trying to force my beliefs/opinions/culture onto another group of people, when I also claim to be pro-choice (where people make independent choices for themselves).
On May 11 2011 02:07 MrBadMan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 02:03 supwidit wrote:On May 11 2011 01:52 MrBadMan wrote:
I fully support Uganda's politics in this matter, and I'm not trolling either. The homosexual orientation is a mental disease that needs to be treated, homosexual acts are crimes that need to be punished.
Evil can not be tolerated. u must be trolling but.. you fully support that people suffering a(as you put it) "mental disease" deserve the death penalty? They will not be subject to the death penalty in Uganda, you might want to inform yourself before you voice your opinion. The homosexual act needs to be punished by law. The act in itself is a crime that needs to be punished. A society that fails to hold its destructive forces in check eventually destroys itself from within.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but are you saying that not only is homosexuality a mental defect, but also that acts of homosexuality should be punished?
Wouldn't the fact of being gay then justify the gay acts by an Insanity Defense, as the person is mentally disables, and therefore not competent to make decisions?...
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Signed. That's crazy stuff.
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On May 11 2011 02:54 TALegion wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I signed the petition, but:
I just thought of something. In a debate against abortion, one of the arguments is that only a person should be allowed to make decisions about herself (in this case, I refer to the child as part of the mother, without its own rights). So, if you're pro-choice, how can you eb against this? It isn't your country. It doesn't affect you. You don't know what's best, and you shouldn't try to assert your opinions on others, more or less force them.
Like I said, I signed the petition, but I find it mildly hypocritical. I support Gay Rights (imo, they have just as much right to be happy as anyone else), but I don't like the idea of trying to force my beliefs/opinions/culture onto another group of people, when I also claim to be pro-choice (where people make independent choices for themselves).
Yea, I used to be for the whole sovereignty thing, till I realized it never existed anyways unless you had enough power in your country, and even then there was influence. So, /shrug, may as well use it to align the world favorably towards your point of view and hope that the coming and passing of generations enforces it!
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i always knew the biggest problem in africa are gay people
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On May 11 2011 02:59 BillClinton wrote:
i always knew the biggest problem in africa are gay people
.....
Bigger problem if you wanted to look at it medically is lack of condom use. Spread of AIDs is bad. Good thing the Church, which has so much influence in Africa, is taking progressive steps albeit slowly.
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On May 11 2011 02:52 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 02:06 Calliopee wrote:On May 11 2011 00:17 zalz wrote:On May 10 2011 21:52 Calliopee wrote:I cant know for sure what the situation is like in Uganda but Ive done a fair few travels to Ghana where homosexuality is frowned upon if not illegal. The reasoning for this is actually alot more complicated than some of you guys want it to sound and is definatly not only a sympthom of "backwardsness" or "religious zealotry" - rather it has its roots in western, rich white people who come to these poor parts of Africa for sex with young boys. Anyone whos ever been to rural parts of African countries will know just how desperatly people are in need of cash - much like we know it from Thailand were the sexindustry with very young boys is an ever growing cashcow for some few sick people. Main difference being that its a far less known fact as theres not that many tourist in Africa as there are in Thailand for instance - so less people know about it. I know this doesnt validate a law to execute homosexuals in any kind and especially not when its two men or women - for that matter - who on even foot decides to be intimate. However, I do hope that you realise that this is part of the reason as to why homosexuality really is viewed upon as a major offence. A fun slightly unrelated fact is that public display of affection man and wife together is not something you see very much but two men who are good friends more often than not will walk hand in hand I think you deserve a round of applause for how gracefully you managed to blame white people and free the Uganda population of any blame. How about we just treat African people as equalls and don't pretend like they aren't responsible for their own actions. The truth is that the Ugandese people are incredibly homophobic and this is derived from their religion (christians). Mixed with poor people being more likely to be extreme since there isn't anything to lose and you have a country filled with people that aren't being played or tricked but honestly want to murder homosexuals from their own desire. I sincerely apologize if thats how you understood my post - english is not my first language. I'm not trying to relief the population from responsibility. My point was merely that there is more to the homophobia in some african countries than just religious matters. On the part of "christianity" as the root for this, I highly recommend you dont think of it in absolute truths. In many african nations you will find that rural areas have a ton of different congretations with different preachers and therefore different "truths". Sure they might be derived somewhat from the puritan christanity we in Europe declared death centuries ago, but alot of them are subject to a few select preachers interpretations. Don't get me wrong, I think this law is horrendous but I've always believed that you can't judge people without understanding where they're coming from and all of the emotional socio/economic aspects that would play a part in a matter such as this. Homosexuals are an abomination, so writes the bible. I really wish people could be honest but in their defense of religion they even deny what is written in the holy books themselves. The bible isn't doubtfull in how homosexuals should be treated, they should be killed according to the bible. This country is 84% christian, but for no other reason then you wanting it to be so, religion isn't to blame. These people follow a book that literally says "kill homosexuals" and somehow it's not that, it's something else. The church itself remains quiet on the matter. Speaking of peace and love in public whilst permitting murder in reality. The churches opinion would weigh a lot in Uganda, but the church won't speak out. Religion could show that it's not just a force or destruction and oppression if the vatican condemmed the government of Uganda for passing this. Will they? They won't. They will stop and think to themselves that it's just homosexuals that are getting killed and what does the church give about that? They don't give a damn. Time to look past the 200 year old fake christian story of love and peace and see what it will do in reality. Today the church can stop this, but if i had to make a bet, they aren't going to do shit. They will let those people die and they won't lose a day sleep about it. People need to stop pretending that religion doesn't have anything to do with this. Religion has everything to do with this. It is the problem and it could be the cure. But it won't be, because at it's core even a self-proclaimed modern religion like christianity will revel in the murder of homosexuals.
Jeez i rest my case - again i was only trying to add some more perspectives to this discussion.
By the way, the Vatican has got very little if any impact on societies who arn't ROMAN CATHOLIC.
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17038 Posts
On May 11 2011 02:59 BillClinton wrote:
i always knew the biggest problem in africa are gay people
What?
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On May 11 2011 03:02 Calliopee wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2011 02:52 zalz wrote:On May 11 2011 02:06 Calliopee wrote:On May 11 2011 00:17 zalz wrote:On May 10 2011 21:52 Calliopee wrote:I cant know for sure what the situation is like in Uganda but Ive done a fair few travels to Ghana where homosexuality is frowned upon if not illegal. The reasoning for this is actually alot more complicated than some of you guys want it to sound and is definatly not only a sympthom of "backwardsness" or "religious zealotry" - rather it has its roots in western, rich white people who come to these poor parts of Africa for sex with young boys. Anyone whos ever been to rural parts of African countries will know just how desperatly people are in need of cash - much like we know it from Thailand were the sexindustry with very young boys is an ever growing cashcow for some few sick people. Main difference being that its a far less known fact as theres not that many tourist in Africa as there are in Thailand for instance - so less people know about it. I know this doesnt validate a law to execute homosexuals in any kind and especially not when its two men or women - for that matter - who on even foot decides to be intimate. However, I do hope that you realise that this is part of the reason as to why homosexuality really is viewed upon as a major offence. A fun slightly unrelated fact is that public display of affection man and wife together is not something you see very much but two men who are good friends more often than not will walk hand in hand I think you deserve a round of applause for how gracefully you managed to blame white people and free the Uganda population of any blame. How about we just treat African people as equalls and don't pretend like they aren't responsible for their own actions. The truth is that the Ugandese people are incredibly homophobic and this is derived from their religion (christians). Mixed with poor people being more likely to be extreme since there isn't anything to lose and you have a country filled with people that aren't being played or tricked but honestly want to murder homosexuals from their own desire. I sincerely apologize if thats how you understood my post - english is not my first language. I'm not trying to relief the population from responsibility. My point was merely that there is more to the homophobia in some african countries than just religious matters. On the part of "christianity" as the root for this, I highly recommend you dont think of it in absolute truths. In many african nations you will find that rural areas have a ton of different congretations with different preachers and therefore different "truths". Sure they might be derived somewhat from the puritan christanity we in Europe declared death centuries ago, but alot of them are subject to a few select preachers interpretations. Don't get me wrong, I think this law is horrendous but I've always believed that you can't judge people without understanding where they're coming from and all of the emotional socio/economic aspects that would play a part in a matter such as this. Homosexuals are an abomination, so writes the bible. I really wish people could be honest but in their defense of religion they even deny what is written in the holy books themselves. The bible isn't doubtfull in how homosexuals should be treated, they should be killed according to the bible. This country is 84% christian, but for no other reason then you wanting it to be so, religion isn't to blame. These people follow a book that literally says "kill homosexuals" and somehow it's not that, it's something else. The church itself remains quiet on the matter. Speaking of peace and love in public whilst permitting murder in reality. The churches opinion would weigh a lot in Uganda, but the church won't speak out. Religion could show that it's not just a force or destruction and oppression if the vatican condemmed the government of Uganda for passing this. Will they? They won't. They will stop and think to themselves that it's just homosexuals that are getting killed and what does the church give about that? They don't give a damn. Time to look past the 200 year old fake christian story of love and peace and see what it will do in reality. Today the church can stop this, but if i had to make a bet, they aren't going to do shit. They will let those people die and they won't lose a day sleep about it. People need to stop pretending that religion doesn't have anything to do with this. Religion has everything to do with this. It is the problem and it could be the cure. But it won't be, because at it's core even a self-proclaimed modern religion like christianity will revel in the murder of homosexuals. Jeez i rest my case - again i was only trying to add some more perspectives to this discussion. By the way, the Vatican has got very little if any impact on societies who arn't ROMAN CATHOLIC.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Uganda
Rome doesn't have a majority, but it is still the largest group (albeit diminishing), with a small lead over the Ugandan Anglican church @ 41%. They definitely have a loud enough voice to put a long term damper on this issue if they so choose to exercise it.
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couldnt be meant more ironically, thought it was clear
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Punishing someone for being different is wrong. Especially with the death penalty. I think making it illegal would be more than enough.
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On May 11 2011 03:08 BillClinton wrote:
couldnt be meant more ironically, thought it was clear
It was completely unclear until I looked at your posting history, after having a few double takes ><
Should at least throw in a spoiler clarifying irony given such a polemic statement >_>
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EPT
