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On May 10 2011 10:34 n.DieJokes wrote:
So tell me if I understand this correctly, there's a spectrum of social behaviors between autistic and normal and recently more and more of the medical field has decided to draw their dividing line a bit closer to the norm? I don't understand the problem here, would you rather have them ignore the mild cases and only focus on severe ones? It sounds like the problem isn't the diagnoses but rather the processes by which the treat/deal with people diagnosed
I'm not saying to ignore it, but that we're getting to the point where any deviation from the norm automatically means you have a mental problem of some sort. In part it's because I believe there is no such thing as normal, no two people are alike and this representation of normal i seemingly dated...
Everyone has problems, but when it gets to the point where you're being diagnosed with such a "mild case" of any disorder when it doesn't actively affect your life its a whole other ball game. So while those who need help get it, the ones who don't need help are being convinced they do and their wallet subsequently get cleaned out.
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I think it's definitely an overdiagnosis issue, and I have no idea why. I know someone who's been ADD, ADHD, and diagnosed with AS. Obviously, the various diagnoses superceded eachother throughout his life, rather than them saying he had all three.
I think people are trying too hard to label something they don't understand, more than anything, because honestly, he's perfectly high functioning, and just has shit social skills. Not to say the conditions don't legitimately exist, but I don't consider being smart and not having social skills to be a combination that has anything to do with a need to diagnose someone with anything.
I was homeschooled until High School, grew up in the middle of nowhere, knew only a few kids my own age from the church I was subjected to, and got into gaming and computers young. Growing up that way steered me clear of having any major predilection towards socialization later, and it would have been easy to put those traits together to diagnose me with Aspberger's under the OP's traits listed. However, for me, it wasn't medical, it was purely lack of practice.
My case is fairly clear, but now let's try muddying the waters a little and see if we can't find a similar sort of issue? The people diagnosed with AS are frequently in a high intelligence percentile for their age group, especially when young. Frequently the "geeks" will be slightly ostracized by their peers, and have a slightly different set of interests, owing perhaps to a more developed imagination. Gaming, books, and science as hobbies aren't a symptom, rather, they're the root, as they increase the distance between the smarter children and their peers, as they have little or no common ground. As the cliques develop, the "different" ones, or rather, the smarter minority, are seen as having something wrong with them by those who don't understand, and they seek to diagnose, rather than attempt to elevate the other children to the same level.
Again, I'm sure there are legitimate cases, but this is my take on the large number that I feel are misdiagnosed.
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i do agree. i sometimes feel I like i fit into that category.
I'm not sure if I have AS or just SAD all my life. i do pass all the AS tests but I havent gotten a diagnosis(possibly getting one this month).
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Idk, maybe they just need to redefine or further define what is exactly "autism".
Anyways, consider progaming man! :D
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This thread itself reaks of ridicule.
No offence, but you're all criticizing over diagnosis, yet surprisingly enough you or a close relative ALL have ADD or a similar form of autism, and for your own cases, of course, its legit.
Take 20 cases from autism posters have brought up on this thread, compare it to the 2k views the thread has, boom 1/100 have autism on TL.
You know what the problem is ? People trying to act different, parents wanting their children to be weird geniuses, kids in their early ages approaching life from different angles etc. Taking a mild and early social misbehaviour for autism is ridiculous, yet a lot of people say they had it, and the difficult childhood that comes with it.
If what the OP describes is serious Aspergers, intelligent, very few friends, "bad reactions to social stimuli" honestly the whole thing seems overrated, half the kids in school are like that, the evolution from shyness to getting teased to hating everyone is exactly the same.
The OP sounds so proud of being "one of the first diagnoses", which I think is exactly the problem.
What I hate about autism is that it really stands out as a cry for difference, whether its the parents or the kids without really knowing it, or even knowing it could be possible. Mix in a bit of pharmaceutical lobbying, and half the kids in the US will have autism by 2020.
Anyway, met a few autistic kids once a few years back, they did seem disconnected from my world, and I do take the matter quite seriously, however this thread made me giggle, just sums up as "anti social kids getting a medical term and their own special treatment".
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At least for ADD the notion that the disorder is being misdiagnosed is hurtful for people with ADD. It's the idea that it has to do with bad parenting or some other bogus thing, or that "natural" cures or stronger will power are the answer. The only cure for ADD that's been shown to work is medication and guidance.
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I agree with most of the other replys that a lot of diseases and disorders are over diagnosed. Additionally I think the public response to a lot of them is a bit out of line. I remember a few years ago watching a program about ADD/ADHD diagnosis and there was specifically one story that kind of sealed the deal. There was a school that was giving extra tutoring/educational oppurtunities to the students that had been diagnosed and so a lot of the parents were "pressuring" their doctors to diagnose their kids with learning disabilities to get access to these programs. A woman was quoted (and now im paraphrasing) that "if my child does not have a learning disability, he is at a disadvantage"
Now I'm not trying to propose a solution but this is similar to SC2 tournaments that are bronze-plat only and then have some desirable prize. There will ALWAYS be someone who games the system and tanks their rank in order to have an advantage, just like if people are told "if your kid as a disability, we will give him extra time on tests, and a special tutor to help".
I think what it comes down to is that humans will do mostly anything to get ahead of their peers. I'm not condemning it, but dear lord leave the kids out of it.
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On May 10 2011 11:17 Nqsty wrote:
This thread itself reaks of ridicule.
No offence, but you're all criticizing over diagnosis, yet surprisingly enough you or a close relative ALL have ADD or a similar form of autism, and for your own cases, of course, its legit.
Take 20 cases from autism posters have brought up on this thread, compare it to the 2k views the thread has, boom 1/100 have autism on TL.
You know what the problem is ? People trying to act different, parents wanting their children to be weird geniuses, kids in their early ages approaching life from different angles etc. Taking a mild and early social misbehaviour for autism is ridiculous, yet a lot of people say they had it, and the difficult childhood that comes with it.
If what the OP describes is serious Aspergers, intelligent, very few friends, "bad reactions to social stimuli" honestly the whole thing seems overrated, half the kids in school are like that, the evolution from shyness to getting teased to hating everyone is exactly the same.
The OP sounds so proud of being "one of the first diagnoses", which I think is exactly the problem.
What I hate about autism is that it really stands out as a cry for difference, whether its the parents or the kids without really knowing it, or even knowing it could be possible. Mix in a bit of pharmaceutical lobbying, and half the kids in the US will have autism by 2020.
Anyway, met a few autistic kids once a few years back, they did seem disconnected from my world, and I do take the matter quite seriously, however this thread made me giggle, just sums up as "anti social kids getting a medical term and their own special treatment".
I'll say it again:
There exists no medical treatment for Asperger's Syndrome. You likely won't get any sort of prescription unless to manage a related symptom.
It's also ridiculous to dismiss AS as a cry for difference because that's precisely how you define it. It's an abnormality. Saying to people that you identify yourself as having AS is communicating your abnormality. By virtue of being a word with a certain definition, you can't do otherwise but communicate an abnormality when you use that word. I'm just saying that there is no need to accuse people of being attention whores because that would really pollute this discussion beyond repair.
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If what the OP describes is serious Aspergers, intelligent, very few friends, "bad reactions to social stimuli" honestly the whole thing seems overrated, half the kids in school are like that, the evolution from shyness to getting teased to hating everyone is exactly the same.
Just adding, social difficulty is just a symptom, the diagnosis itself is far more advanced than that. Most likely you will have seen people with Aspergers that you never knew had it unless they told you. There are adults who have been diagnosed late in life ( late 40's etc.) and have lived a relative normal life until then with no problems. You don't see these people and that might lead you to think that the ones with social issues are the only ones with Aspergers, that's wrong.
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On May 10 2011 09:27 Aeres wrote:
So, TeamLiquid, what it comes down to is this: Do you feel that autism, along with other mental disorders such as ADD and bipolar disorder, are being "overdiagosed" to try and excessively label individuals that may not even have them? Is this rash of diagnosis for these conditions due to medical criteria that are simply too wide? Is this some widespread pharmaceutical scam to sell more prescription pills? *puts on tinfoil cap*. I haven't read any replies yet but after seeing the name of the thread I'm surprised you include some commonly ignored logical parts.
Anyway I'll start with rhetorical questions on the thread name.
"Autism as a "convenient" diagnosis?"
In what way does it matter if autism is not a convenient diagnosis?
In what way does it matter if autism is a convenient diagnosis?
Do you feel that autism, along with other mental disorders such as ADD and bipolar disorder, are being "overdiagosed" to try and excessively label individuals that may not even have them? They are probably overdiagnosed in some areas etc but generally they are probably under diagnosed. Also, what would the point be with the "labeling"?
Is this rash of diagnosis for these conditions due to medical criteria that are simply too wide? The medical criterias are probably too wide but that's how things work. The more you learn(in this case about the human brain) the more accurate things become. As usual there will be probably be new terms as we get more detailed knowledge, mistakes are corrected and so on.
Is this some widespread pharmaceutical scam to sell more prescription pills? *puts on tinfoil cap*. Well it's great that you included a "why theory". That's what I meant with commonly ignored logical parts since so many discussions like this lacks some form of point.
I don't know, if these things are very over diagnosed it does not feel that likely that it would be because someone wants to sell more pills. The advertising, possible lobbying etc most likely have an effect on all medical conditions but I would guess those effects are usually in the +/- .01-10% range and not the 50-500% or whatever ranges this thread was created about.
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Aspergers is an interesting case because it doesn't have a clearcut big pharma agenda behind it, yet the frequency of it being diagnosed has been increasing. This is a unique time in history where humans are actually identifying a difference between people who have a hard time functioning socially in a society and steps are being taken to help them.
Keep in mind that Aspergers is an Axis II disorder in the DSM-IV scale. People reading this thread should inform themselves about it to avoid misinformation being perpetuated.
ADD is another interesting case. The reason ADD is being diagnosed so readily is because a significant portion of society has it. In the past, people with ADD struggled with it and either persevered and became professionals or failed and became bums. Prescribed medication allows people suffering with ADD to cope with their defeciencies and lower the probability that they fail in their career goals.
Is ADD being overdiagnosed? Yes, but that is due to the medical ethics policy. ADD is present to some degree in many people in society. It is medically unethical for the doctor to deny a patient medication if the patient requests it and there is some need for it. That means that parents who want Adderall so their kid doesn't get straight C's throughout school will get the medications. This will allow their child to actually continue his education, where in the past he would have dropped out and become a minimum-wage earner.
Most people who have severe ADD suffer from it because their parents are horrible parents. However, the doctor can't fix the lack of good parenting and his best course is to offer medication to alleviate the worst symptoms. I always here a lot of people say that the solution to ADD is to have better parenting, but they never mention a system that would accomplish that. Good parenting would help with a lot of the behavioral disorders that people face today, but there are very few good parents out there.
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"Hey guys! Guys! Guys listen! Listen to me!!!
I'm not a doctor, have zero experience in the medical field, absolutely zero credentials, but having read Yahoo news articles about this subject, I want you to listen to me while I ask leading questions!"
Facepalm. Before you make a blanket statement likeIt seems like a convenient catch-all diagnosis how about you find one, just one case of a mis-diagnosed case of Aspergers before you jump on the entire field of psychology. That's all: just one. Then you can work your way up from there, connecting dots. I'm not saying every diagnosis is correct - I'm saying you have zero concrete evidence.
I made this thread partly because I'm genuinely interested in finding an answer to this, but I also want to know what you guys think. I could just go Google my way to victory, but I feel that input from you guys is far more varied and valuable. ...seriously? You're forgoing proper research in favor of internet heroing? You're basically saying "Instead of researching and looking up the opinions of a couple dozen PhDs who have spent decades of their life researching this subject, how about I survey the opinions of a few people who play a video game by asking a leading question?"
Jesus effin Christ.
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On May 10 2011 10:22 Zooper31 wrote:
TBH I think 80% of the people labeled with ADHD are just stupid, hyper, or lazy and don't actually have anything mentally wrong with them. My best friend's mom was worried about him for sometime when he was in middle school and she took him to a doctor and he got diagnosed with ADHD and was given medicine for it. Eventually we got around to talking about it and he kinda admitted that he was just lazy and just didn't choose to do his homework or w/e was needed. He never had an attention problem he just wasn't motivated I guess.
I guess my thought process goes along the same route for Autism, the borderline people, not the "savants" and the noticeably mentally handicapped ones.
I think it's just another excuse something people can blame things on and not themselves to escape responsibilities.
Side note. I took a free test at a ADHD awareness stand at a festival once and I had 5/6 of the symptons they tested for. I always joke about it sometimes as my excuse for not doing things sometimes because I clearly don't have it or it's never effected me. Straight A/Bs through all my school and usually the hardest worker when compared to my co-workers. I guess ADHD is a good thing right?
TBH i think your post is full of shit.
In the world right now that is formed by majority and so called 'standards' there comes a point in most of the people where they ask themselfes "am i standard"? And i tell you a little secret, Nobody is standard. Everyone is a unique individual person with a unique mindset but we all live in the standardized society. There are several ways to deal with the problem that we are not standard. Most of the people can adapt their social life with the standards of their society. Some people can give a good show to their environment and 'play standard' regardless of their personal mindset. There are also some people that cannot overcome their non standard behavior for whatever reasons (ADHD, ADD, Borderline, Depression or whatsoever). That doesn't mean these people are looking for "excuses" or "are just stupid, hyper, or lazy". Actually most of these people are very smart and above average but they cannot focus on things for a longer period of time or things get boring fast or they get distracted very easy.
Im sorry that i am not a specialist in ADHD or ADD my personal theme is Depression but there are some similarities. Most of the people i am speaking with are not aware of my illness because im a good 'actor of life' and i dont go to people and say "hey how are you? my name is ... and i have Depressions". I cant say that because that inflicts some serios problems in the interaction with other people. Mostly because people dont care about other peoples problems and/or they dont have the correct information about these diseases, just some stereotypical thoughts.
Oh my... i cant concentrate any longer...
My thoughts about the OP:
I'm not so familiar with the state of these diagnosis in the US or in Germany either. I think mental disorders are expressions of our mind that want break out of the standardized society. Our Environment should see what we really are. We are all Unique. The fear for the unknown has a big influence in this diagnoses and also our society. Be open-minded. Live and let live.
just my thoughts
Djarv
p.s.: Sorry for my bad english.
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Just to slip a word in...
ADD probably is over-diagnosed. I know somebody who had her doctor diagnose her with ADD specifically so that she could get extra time on exams, which is actually quite scummy, but I've never said that to her face because she's a friend I've known since I was a tot.
Autism I don't think is over-diagnosed -- rather, it is overly broad in it's definition. It's kind of like how roughly 50% of the population has "some form" of irritable bowel syndrome. It's a blanket diagnosis that covers varying problems of varying severity that feature certain common symptoms and except for severe cases where day-to-day functionality is badly compromised, we just need to tell people to man up.
Truthfully speaking, almost everybody on the planet has something medically not quite right with themselves. A perfectly healthy person is a rarity. As a society, we simply cannot afford to take a time out for every single little problem. There aren't enough resources and nobody would be allowed to actually live.
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Not all autistics or aspergers are alike, they are a behavioural spectrum, not a symptom. It's like saying too many people are called rich. On a global average, I'm 'rich' and bill gates is 'rich', I make 550 bucks a month, he makes 550 bucks a second.
it's simply a way of comparing people to other people, and unless you're willing to get down into specifics, it's about as useless as a submarine with a screen door.
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Everyone's concept of autism in this thread is fucking wrong
I literally can't fathom the ignorance in this thread. Comparing autism to ADD is a disgrace, and I can't believe how widespread this belief is.
Autism is not a social disease, its a form of retardation. The blanket description of calling autism a "social disease" is like calling skin cancer an "aesthetic disease". Autism isn't merely some excuse for shy nerds to have a reason behind why they can't make friends. Autism has insane physical detriments, mental handicaps, and social problems is a blanket statement for the general problems.
No. Autism is NOT overdiagnosed. The families who have autistic children (mine) would be disgusted with this thread.
edit: I need to clarify this is directed at some of the comments in the thread, not the OP, which is very well written.
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I was diagnosed with ADHD and I do believe that it is overdiagnosed. I believe some kids mature at an older age than others and also some kids have shorter attention spans, but that does not warrant feeding them drugs to keep them under control.
I feel like there are certain situations where taking medication may be beneficial, but these days it is far too easy to obtain these types of medications and it has even come to the point where kids that obviously don't have ADHD are taking them with the intentions of being able to study unnaturally better.
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I strongly believe they are overdiagnosed. When I was about 13 years old my parents divorced and I refused to live with my dad half the time. I did it because I felt that having to move back and forth between two houses was like a punishment and he was the one who cheated on my mom, but he took me to a doctor and talked about how I wouldn't listen to him, refused to talk, and refused to look him in the eye. I was in the room and remained silent the entire time. Solely from that the doctor through out the word "autism", he suggested that I may have a mild form of it. I thought it was total bullshit.
Later in my life I was depressed and had to a complete psychiatric evaluation which consisted of a 400 question true or false test of questions like "I feel excluded when I am out with friends", an IQ test, and a bunch of those fringe pseudoscience tests where you do things like describe what pictures you see in a blob of colors. Just from that test they thought I had Asperger's Syndrome. They didn't even know why I was depressed in the first place. I knew it was total bullshit. It's all about the money they get from these medications.
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On May 10 2011 13:04 mOnion wrote:
Everyone's concept of autism in this thread is fucking wrong
I literally can't fathom the ignorance in this thread. Comparing autism to ADD is a disgrace, and I can't believe how widespread this belief is.
Autism is not a social disease, its a form of retardation. The blanket description of calling autism a "social disease" is like calling skin cancer an "aesthetic disease". Autism isn't merely some excuse for shy nerds to have a reason behind why they can't make friends. Autism has insane physical detriments, mental handicaps, and social problems is a blanket statement for the general problems.
No. Autism is NOT overdiagnosed. The families who have autistic children (mine) would be disgusted with this thread.
Several people have brought it up in this thread, and I'll agree with them: overdiagnosis for autism isn't the problem so much as the spectrum being so broad. I worded that poorly, and I apologize.
I have absolutely no issue with autism, to be clear. There are obviously, OBVIOUSLY many legitimate, severe cases of autism. I'm simply referring to that area of the spectrum that is, as you said, the "shy nerd" section.
I didn't mean to offend, mOnion. = /
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On May 10 2011 13:09 Aeres wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2011 13:04 mOnion wrote:
Everyone's concept of autism in this thread is fucking wrong
I literally can't fathom the ignorance in this thread. Comparing autism to ADD is a disgrace, and I can't believe how widespread this belief is.
Autism is not a social disease, its a form of retardation. The blanket description of calling autism a "social disease" is like calling skin cancer an "aesthetic disease". Autism isn't merely some excuse for shy nerds to have a reason behind why they can't make friends. Autism has insane physical detriments, mental handicaps, and social problems is a blanket statement for the general problems.
No. Autism is NOT overdiagnosed. The families who have autistic children (mine) would be disgusted with this thread. Several people have brought it up in this thread, and I'll agree with them: overdiagnosis for autism isn't the problem so much as the spectrum being so broad. I worded that poorly, and I apologize. I have absolutely no issue with autism, to be clear. There are obviously, OBVIOUSLY many legitimate, severe cases of autism. I'm simply referring to that area of the spectrum that is, as you said, the "shy nerd" section. I didn't mean to offend, mOnion. = /
I'm not lashing at you, sorry, I just feel like I've seen this kind of thread in general and in blogs with people doing this kind of comparison. Living in a family with someone who's autistic is something I don't think any of you can even fathom, and my sister isn't even heavy autistic.
It's just such a strange misconception, and it's literally driving me insane. I've seen at least 5 or 6 different threads on the subject and its ludacris that people think they can be "diagnosed" with autism anywhere beyond like age 7 or 8 at the latest. I'm sorry you guys had trouble in school, I did too, I was a nerd as well, but you're not autistic.
Aspergers is another story of course because its SIGNIFICANTLY more mild, and I would appreciate it if the OP would change the bolded text to read aspergers.
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EPT
