|
Keep it civil guys.
Alright I am sick of warning people: Trolling, flame baiting, and derailing will result in insta bans.
The same goes for conspiracy theorists and stupidity generally.
Confirmation was as follows
- On-site DNA test which came back as 99% positive.
- photos of face sent to CIA and confirmed with photo analysis
- confirmed by 20 year old wife who live in pakistan.
This thread is specifically dedicated to the details surrounding the raid/his death. |
On May 03 2011 00:13 archonOOid wrote:Why was Osama Bin Ladin's religious views respected (buried within 24 hours) and not his political views (shot in the head)? Seems kinda funny that you respect his religion after shooting him in the head  -Solider: You will be killed, you piece of shit! -But you will be given a free and traditional burial in correspondence with your religion John Mccain said that America wouldn't give him mercy, but they gave his soul mercy. Because of the Islamic burial.
Because there are a lot more people that follow Islamic religious views than there are those who follow his political views. It's to minimize the shitstorm that will ensue afterwards (from fundamentalist groups, Osama supporters, anti-USA groups, etc...)
The less people you piss off the better; providing an Islamic burial ensures that there is much less opposition to the entire event.
|
Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 03 2011 00:09 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 00:03 Kennigit wrote:On May 03 2011 00:01 zatic wrote:On May 02 2011 23:51 Thrill wrote:On May 02 2011 23:43 Kennigit wrote:
Regarding why he was buried so fast at sea.
1) Islamic law requires fast burials. (24 hours i believe someone can confirm)
2) If they kept his body on the ship to take somewhere else, as soon as that info hits the news every foreigner in pakistan/islamic world becomes immediate target for hostage taking to get the body back
3) If they bury him on soil, that site makes him more of a martyr and allows ppl/supporters to rally around it/visit etc.
Fast sea burial defuses it.
The white house/state department is debating which photos/videos to release without being too graphic (cranial exit wounds leave a bit of a mess). Well, the briefing doesn't state why a stronger effort wasn't made to capture him alive. Surely that should have been the main objective? Rubber bullet to the chest and tear gas would make more sense than two (!) lethal rounds to the head. Even if he was personally returning fire - seals are seals, they could have detonated the floor under him and brought him down without even giving him a chance to shoot himself. I just don't get it. I think we all feel a bit cheated by the way this was executed. If they really had him cornered in a compound, multiple headshots seems terribly excessive and un-seals like. Yeah I don't buy for a second that they wanted to capture him alive. I'll bet they had orders to kill. They were ordered to kill him and make no attempt to capture him....he was in a fortified compound with 8' high stone walls and armed guards. "unseal like" i'm going to lose it. Well the reasoning to kill him surely wasn't because there was a brick wall around the house and two donkeys with AKs patrolling. Compared to 25 elite forces who trained this specific raid for weeks. If they wanted to get him alive, they could have. He was killed because of the unbelievable quagmire that a capture and trial would mean. Nobody wanted this creep making statements in a fair trial. Just remember the PR catastrophe the Saddam trial was.
Yeah they've been watching the location for a few months before the order was given to go in. CIA obviously went over the pros cons for weeks with super smart analysts/leaders before ordering the kill mission.
Theres a task force in afghanistan that changes its identifier every few months (for secrecy: its made up of Delta, ST6, then some allies like JTF2/SAS etc) that literally flies around the pakistan/afghan mountain border, finds taliban leaders and kills them. Every single evening.
People are freaking out because its the first time they've heard of something like this, but it happens constantly....Fly in, kill leader and brothers protecting him. Fly home. Theres a lot of reports of CIA ops doing scare tactics on local Taliban villages too (old school: killing the taliban leader at night then nailing signs in Pashto to town hall door warning ppl who would replace him).
If you had a list of the taliban/al quada leaders that had been killed by special forces in afghanistan/pakistan in the last year, today wouldn't be that shocking to people.
|
On May 03 2011 00:21 Thrill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 00:17 Silvanel wrote:On May 02 2011 23:58 OTIX wrote:Wow, if this thread has shown us anything I think it's that there are a lot of idiots in all parts of the world. I certainly agree, thats by far the best conclusion You can draw from this thread  I also hope this will made world a safer place (who knows....), and without shaodw of shame i hope i will cause oil prices to fall, they are already ridicoulusly high. Err, why on earth would oil prices be at all affected by this in any major sense at all?
Regional stability/confidence in stability and the likelihood of long-term western military withdrawal.
|
On May 03 2011 00:22 woob wrote:
so, erm, thye have his dna, and they confirmed its him using said dna. But what did they have to compare it to? lol..
why do you "lol..." when you are ignorant to the issue? rather than being derisive, how about you do a google search instead of passive-aggressively suggesting the idea of a conspiracy?
Osama's sister had died in Boston several years ago and our government stockpiled her DNA in the event that we had to confirm the identity of Osama if we captured or killed him.
|
On May 03 2011 00:25 xZiGGY wrote:
I wonder what'll happen to Al-Qaeda activities now :/
What activities? They will have a new leader etc. Nothing will most likely change.
|
Saddam, check
Osama, check
Next on the list to take care of...
![[image loading]](http://home.online.no/~kaopsvik/aladdin/bilder/sultan.jpg)
|
On May 03 2011 00:22 woob wrote:
so, erm, thye have his dna, and they confirmed its him using said dna. But what did they have to compare it to? lol..
Well, you see, generally people have family members and DNA among these family members is similar enough to compare to.
Here's a quick rundown on the topic if you want to learn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_profiling
|
Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
If you want more reading on SF in afghanistan/pakistan, http://www.operationdarkheart.com/ (try find a wikileaked copy of the first edition - US govt bought almost the entire supply and burned them, blacking out every mention of specific organizations/locations etc).
|
On May 03 2011 00:13 archonOOid wrote: Why was Osama Bin Ladin's religious views respected (buried within 24 hours) and not his political views (shot in the head)? Seems kinda funny that you respect his religion after shooting him in the head -Solider: You will be killed, you piece of shit! -But you will be given a free and traditional burial in correspondence with your religion John Mccain said that America wouldn't give him mercy, but they gave his soul mercy. Because of the Islamic burial. Show nested quote +
Because respecting the major religion of a volatile region of the world where 100s of 1000s of US troops are currently stationed is generally a good idea?
Are you serious?
I believe that a majority of the inhabitants in "the volatile region" think that UBL was a dirtbag and not respecting his twisted interpretation of islam would not cause an outrage in the region
|
On May 03 2011 00:30 Kennigit wrote:If you want more reading on SF in afghanistan/pakistan, http://www.operationdarkheart.com/ (try find a wikileaked copy of the first edition - US govt bought almost the entire supply and burned them, blacking out every mention of specific organizations/locations etc).
That sounds like an amazing business model: write a book containing sensitive information with an initial print run of millions and wait for the government to buy them all up.
|
On May 03 2011 00:21 Thrill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 00:17 Silvanel wrote:On May 02 2011 23:58 OTIX wrote:Wow, if this thread has shown us anything I think it's that there are a lot of idiots in all parts of the world. I certainly agree, thats by far the best conclusion You can draw from this thread I also hope this will made world a safer place (who knows....), and without shaodw of shame i hope i will cause oil prices to fall, they are already ridicoulusly high. Err, why on earth would oil prices be at all affected by this in any major sense at all?
Well apart from major natural disasters, resource prices are highly depndant on the mood of investors, which not always reflect real climate for investemnt but certain "feel" among the investors. Investors often behave like sheep herd and huge world events can easily influence their behavior even though the event itself may not have any real economical signifance. I belive this event is precisly this, without any real economic signifance but with huge potential of changing investors perspective.
|
Damn, didn't Gaddafi almost die in an airstrike couple days ago?
Can you imagine what it would have been like if Gaddafi and Osama were both killed in like the same day or 2, 3 days apart?
Craziness.
|
Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 03 2011 00:32 hmunkey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 00:30 Kennigit wrote:If you want more reading on SF in afghanistan/pakistan, http://www.operationdarkheart.com/ (try find a wikileaked copy of the first edition - US govt bought almost the entire supply and burned them, blacking out every mention of specific organizations/locations etc). That sounds like an amazing business model: write a book containing sensitive information with an initial print run of millions and wait for the government to buy them all up.
Heh, yeah there was a pretty big controversy about gov't burning books - but it was great PR for him. The 2nd edition you still get the jist, but its really annoying to really get into one of the stories he tells followed by 3/4 of a page of black bars rofl.
|
On May 03 2011 00:21 Thrill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 00:17 Silvanel wrote:On May 02 2011 23:58 OTIX wrote:Wow, if this thread has shown us anything I think it's that there are a lot of idiots in all parts of the world. I certainly agree, thats by far the best conclusion You can draw from this thread I also hope this will made world a safer place (who knows....), and without shaodw of shame i hope i will cause oil prices to fall, they are already ridicoulusly high. Err, why on earth would oil prices be at all affected by this in any major sense at all?
Oil, like gold and stocks, is one of the major items in the investment world. The price fluctuates along with prices of dollars, gold, and the current state of politics. An event with a magnitude as large as this one will send all 3 items above (oil, gold, dollars) into chaos. Speculators will try and spin prices as much as possible in this small time window, and catch it during the highs and lows to milk some money.
tl;dr oil prices will be likely to massively fluctuate, along with gold and dollars, however, which one goes up and down will be another story for investors.
|
Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 03 2011 00:38 Chrispy wrote:
Winning the hearts and minds of the muslim world while having your people parade and cheer in the streets over the death of one of their own (regardless of whether or not they support him), yeah good luck with that.
Most muslims would be very offended by this. "One of their own"? Do you know how many moderate muslims live in the world? It's like blaming some protestant family for the actions of Westboro baptist church - they are called extremists for a reason -_-. Please research before posting opinions.
Actually i'm just going to delete your post because if i keep rereading it im going to hit ban.
|
The conspiracy theorists in this thread give a little too much credit to our governments ability to pull things like that off.
Really? The same people that run my local DMV could set up 9/11 and puppeteer a dead Osama for 9 and 1/2 years?
It's the government.
|
On May 03 2011 00:40 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 00:38 Chrispy wrote:
Winning the hearts and minds of the muslim world while having your people parade and cheer in the streets over the death of one of their own (regardless of whether or not they support him), yeah good luck with that.
Most muslims would be very offended by this. "One of their own"? Do you know how many moderate muslims live in the world? It's like blaming some protestant family for the actions of Westboro baptist church - they are called extremists for a reason -_-. Please research before posting opinions.
Not only that, Osama killed FAR more Muslims during his "career" than he did Americans. Many Muslims hate him as much as we do, if not more.
Edit: well actually i dunno about "FAR more", but Muslims certainly felt his and Al Qaeda's reign of terror more than we did
|
|
|
On May 02 2011 19:44 Imres wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 19:41 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:38 VicTimEyes wrote:On May 02 2011 19:35 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:32 VicTimEyes wrote:On May 02 2011 19:30 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:27 blomsterjohn wrote:On May 02 2011 19:23 partisan wrote:On May 02 2011 19:21 Zerokaiser wrote:On May 02 2011 19:16 Awesomeness wrote:
[quote]
Rights stop being universal, if you can relinquish them. This gives the government the freedom to do whatever they want, saying _everyone_ who is against them has "relinquished" his rights. I think you need to draw a line there, if you consider yourself a democrat and actually believe in the decleration of human rights. "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood." We have rights to protect our fellow human beings from being subject to mistreatment, and to give everybody the ability to live their lives freely. Osama Bin Laden had those rights like anybody else. When you make the conscious choice to violate those rights and take away the lives of people, you are no longer free and equal with mankind. That's my personal opinion. Well said. Bin Laden had his until he infringed on the rights of others by eliminating their ability to enjoy those rights. A price must be paid Why do I feel like this is the same'ish as "I believe in free speech, except for some stuff" Doesn't feel good either. There are limits to free speech, and they are extreme cases. Any idea taken to an absolute extreme can be troublesome. The idea that a person can murder thousands and not be brought to justice is confounding. He was intent on fighting to the very last bullet and he fired on the team that came to arrest him. Self defense in the course of executing a legitimate arrest is something that's not usually questioned. So why is George W. Bush still not brought to justice then? He murdered thousands of innocent civilians in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Nobody has ever been prosecuted accidental civilian deaths that result in war, at least as far as I'm aware. Actually it was during an invasion, which was even illegal in the case of Iraq. Technically the UN signed off on Iraq, which gave it legal cover. That being said, it was a stupid mess that I marched against for years. You'll never hear me defend the wisdom of that war but we did get approval first. France (one of the few things we can be proud of :D) vetoed the decision.
That was a little shady though. France stood to lose if the Oil for Food program ended as there were allegations of bribery and abuse of the system by the Russians, Chinese, and French.
|
Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 03 2011 00:41 Supamang wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 00:40 Kennigit wrote:On May 03 2011 00:38 Chrispy wrote:
Winning the hearts and minds of the muslim world while having your people parade and cheer in the streets over the death of one of their own (regardless of whether or not they support him), yeah good luck with that.
Most muslims would be very offended by this. "One of their own"? Do you know how many moderate muslims live in the world? It's like blaming some protestant family for the actions of Westboro baptist church - they are called extremists for a reason -_-. Please research before posting opinions. Not only that, Osama killed FAR more Muslims during his "career" than he did Americans. Many Muslims hate him as much as we do, if not more. Edit: well actually i dunno about "FAR more", but Muslims certainly felt his and Al Qaeda's reign of terror more than we did
Bang on. Report out of West Point last year showed that 85% of terrorist attack victims since 01 have been muslim.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
