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Keep it civil guys.
Alright I am sick of warning people: Trolling, flame baiting, and derailing will result in insta bans.
The same goes for conspiracy theorists and stupidity generally.
Confirmation was as follows
- On-site DNA test which came back as 99% positive.
- photos of face sent to CIA and confirmed with photo analysis
- confirmed by 20 year old wife who live in pakistan.
This thread is specifically dedicated to the details surrounding the raid/his death. |
Zurich15358 Posts
On May 03 2011 00:03 Kennigit wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 00:01 zatic wrote:On May 02 2011 23:51 Thrill wrote:On May 02 2011 23:43 Kennigit wrote:
Regarding why he was buried so fast at sea.
1) Islamic law requires fast burials. (24 hours i believe someone can confirm)
2) If they kept his body on the ship to take somewhere else, as soon as that info hits the news every foreigner in pakistan/islamic world becomes immediate target for hostage taking to get the body back
3) If they bury him on soil, that site makes him more of a martyr and allows ppl/supporters to rally around it/visit etc.
Fast sea burial defuses it.
The white house/state department is debating which photos/videos to release without being too graphic (cranial exit wounds leave a bit of a mess). Well, the briefing doesn't state why a stronger effort wasn't made to capture him alive. Surely that should have been the main objective? Rubber bullet to the chest and tear gas would make more sense than two (!) lethal rounds to the head. Even if he was personally returning fire - seals are seals, they could have detonated the floor under him and brought him down without even giving him a chance to shoot himself. I just don't get it. I think we all feel a bit cheated by the way this was executed. If they really had him cornered in a compound, multiple headshots seems terribly excessive and un-seals like. Yeah I don't buy for a second that they wanted to capture him alive. I'll bet they had orders to kill. They were ordered to kill him and make no attempt to capture him....he was in a fortified compound with 8' high stone walls and armed guards. "unseal like" i'm going to lose it.
Well the reasoning to kill him surely wasn't because there was a brick wall around the house and two donkeys with AKs patrolling. Compared to 25 elite forces who trained this specific raid for weeks. If they wanted to get him alive, they could have.
He was killed because of the unbelievable quagmire that a capture and trial would mean. Nobody wanted this creep making statements in a fair trial. Just remember the PR catastrophe the Saddam trial was.
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On May 02 2011 23:19 sCCrooked wrote:
Does anyone else stay in close personal contact with those troops overseas? I know I do with my friends. Did anyone else know that for the last 5-6 years at least, they've been raiding and protecting OPIUM DENS and STORAGE FACILITIES instead of making movements against Taliban factions? Then the government pulls this little stunt out of its ass and basically says "LOOK A DISTRACTION" and a lot of people fall for it.
The moral issues with attaching so much positive emotion to a puppet's supposed-'death' are unending and won't be addressed by me for obvious reasons. Politically though, this was a good move. Everyone is distracted and won't be paying attention to what's going on at the home front. The economy is on a huge bubble that's headed towards a massive collapse, unemployment is at an all time high, and we're in a huge economic depression for the Middle-Class, but Osama is dead, so that makes it all ok right?
Its not "good" news, its not "big" news. Its "If-You-React-To-This-Emotionally-You-Are-Retarded" news. If this reality-tv-twist-esque "news" were worth noticing, at the least I would be hearing from about 20 friends right now "We're comin home... wanna go get a beer?". Instead, they're still in danger and far away. I have a problem with that. Any reasonable American should too imo.
Im Active U.S. Army I been deployed to Afghanistan (Baghram Air Base) and to Iraq ( Al-Taqqadum/Al Asad) I am happy that he is dead. I know it doesn't change the way the war works or will work. I will be deploying again this year sometime to Iraq.
Its just a moral victory thats it. How the news reports it is totally up to them. It's not a distraction because I know it doesn't change much. If I know it doesn't change much the average american probably knows it doesnt change much. It doesn't change the fact that as an American I push politics aside for a moment and can be happy about the outcume.
Now my thought process is to continue to do my job as I always have and keep going. So no I am not emotinally retarded cause I am happy. I've met with Afghan people and kids they where outside of Bagram Air Base all the time. After a while they even know your name that was one of the best things I liked about being in Afghanistan. Its not a vacation sure I would rather be at home with familiy and friends or playing some Starcraft 2 or whatever. Its apart of the job and I know what I signed up for. It doesnt mean I can't enjoy the news that Osama Bin Laden is dead.
I don't usually give out my occupation on internet forums cause I like to be anonymous and just one of the guys/girls. Thought I would give perspective on how I feel as a Soldier.
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On May 03 2011 00:04 Petruccio wrote:
3) Bury him on soil but keep the place a secret.
Secrets are bound to be uncovered. I believe the decision was made beforehand.
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buried at seas means dumping the body whole in to the water right?
1556: The Obama officials, who have not been named, add that "DNA evidence has proven that Bin Laden is dead, with 99.9% confidence", according to AP. The officials did not immediately say where or how the testing was done.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698
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On May 03 2011 00:03 Kennigit wrote:
They were ordered to kill him and make no attempt to capture him....he was in a fortified compound with 8' high stone walls and armed guards. "unseal like" i'm going to lose it. You should just stop theorycrafting....You literally have zero experience with this kind of situation, and zero knowledge of the conditions on the ground or how difficult it is to extract someone who is shooting at you vs killing them...
Hey everybody, Kennigit is obviously an expert on military and intelligence matters. Do not argue with his specialist knowledge or attempt to contradict his statements as he is clearly privy to a whole lot more and has more information and sources about the situation than the rest of us.
User was banned for this post.
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Why was Osama Bin Ladin's religious views respected (buried within 24 hours) and not his political views (shot in the head)? Seems kinda funny that you respect his religion after shooting him in the head 
-Solider: You will be killed, you piece of shit!
-But you will be given a free and traditional burial in correspondence with your religion
John Mccain said that America wouldn't give him mercy, but they gave his soul mercy. Because of the Islamic burial.
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On topic: I thought the presidents speech was about 5 minutes too long, "brevity is the soul of wit." Ironically I think that quote is too long as well.
Glad he's gone, too bad we won't be getting any less restrictions on the psudo-security we have at airports.
Off topic: Biggest thread top warning I have ever seen on TL. Off to the ban thread for massive lols.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 03 2011 00:04 Ganjamaster wrote:
hahaha when does the rainbow six game come out with the Osama HQ?
Tango down.
As far as we know from "public" knowledge, seal team 6 (which is what the book was loosely based on) handle counter terrorist/ridiculous ops like this. The news is labelling it as "navy seal operation" but its likely that delta and other jsoc elements were involved + CIA operatives on site.
On May 03 2011 00:04 Petruccio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 23:43 Kennigit wrote:
Regarding why he was buried so fast at sea.
1) Islamic law requires fast burials. (24 hours i believe someone can confirm)
2) If they kept his body on the ship to take somewhere else, as soon as that info hits the news every foreigner in pakistan/islamic world becomes immediate target for hostage taking to get the body back
3) If they bury him on soil, that site makes him more of a martyr and allows ppl/supporters to rally around it/visit etc.
Fast sea burial defuses it. 1) Why do they care so much about Islamic law??? 2) So take the body, but say to media that it was buried at sea. Nobody can check it. What about the possibility that "every foreigner in pakistan/islamic world" now may be killed in revenge? What about a promised nuclear bomb? 3) Bury him on soil but keep the place a secret.
Why does america care about Islamic law? Because they are smart. If they didn't a lot of extermists would try to spin it as an attack on Islam by defiling his body etc. They are trying to win the hearts and minds of the muslim world - not alienate them. Seals is kind of the honey pot for people trying to figure out what goes on in the SO community. You almost never see any reference to other more secretive branches.
2)/3) Your argument of presenting evidence to idiots on the internet as a positive does not out weigh the iconic nature of a burial site/martyrdom.
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On May 03 2011 00:04 Petruccio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 23:43 Kennigit wrote:
Regarding why he was buried so fast at sea.
1) Islamic law requires fast burials. (24 hours i believe someone can confirm)
2) If they kept his body on the ship to take somewhere else, as soon as that info hits the news every foreigner in pakistan/islamic world becomes immediate target for hostage taking to get the body back
3) If they bury him on soil, that site makes him more of a martyr and allows ppl/supporters to rally around it/visit etc.
Fast sea burial defuses it. 1) Why do they care so much about Islamic law???
Because we are the good guys.
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On May 03 2011 00:13 New Zealander wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 00:03 Kennigit wrote:
They were ordered to kill him and make no attempt to capture him....he was in a fortified compound with 8' high stone walls and armed guards. "unseal like" i'm going to lose it. You should just stop theorycrafting....You literally have zero experience with this kind of situation, and zero knowledge of the conditions on the ground or how difficult it is to extract someone who is shooting at you vs killing them... Hey everybody, Kennigit is obviously an expert on military and intelligence matters. Do not argue with his specialist knowledge or attempt to contradict his statements as he is clearly privy to a whole lot more and has more information and sources about the situation than the rest of us.
A central american security-source tells Reuters that the Seals were sent to kill, not to capture.
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On May 03 2011 00:13 archonOOid wrote:Why was Osama Bin Ladin's religious views respected (buried within 24 hours) and not his political views (shot in the head)? Seems kinda funny that you respect his religion after shooting him in the head -Solider: You will be killed, you piece of shit! -But you will be given a free and traditional burial in correspondence with your religion John Mccain said that America wouldn't give him mercy, but they gave his soul mercy. Because of the Islamic burial.
The whole religion thing is just so people don't complain.
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On May 02 2011 23:58 OTIX wrote:Wow, if this thread has shown us anything I think it's that there are a lot of idiots in all parts of the world.
I certainly agree, thats by far the best conclusion You can draw from this thread
I also hope this will made world a safer place (who knows....), and without shaodw of shame i hope i will cause oil prices to fall, they are already ridicoulusly high.
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On May 03 2011 00:13 New Zealander wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 00:03 Kennigit wrote:
They were ordered to kill him and make no attempt to capture him....he was in a fortified compound with 8' high stone walls and armed guards. "unseal like" i'm going to lose it. You should just stop theorycrafting....You literally have zero experience with this kind of situation, and zero knowledge of the conditions on the ground or how difficult it is to extract someone who is shooting at you vs killing them... Hey everybody, Kennigit is obviously an expert on military and intelligence matters. Do not argue with his specialist knowledge or attempt to contradict his statements as he is clearly privy to a whole lot more and has more information and sources about the situation than the rest of us. User was banned for this post.
Yes its called watching/reading news reports from experts instead of theorycrafting. And i did spend years in the military, had some exposure to SO community and have friends still associated with it. If you weren't being facetious, you'd be 100% correct and get a star. Instead, get wrecked.
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On May 03 2011 00:17 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2011 23:58 OTIX wrote:Wow, if this thread has shown us anything I think it's that there are a lot of idiots in all parts of the world. I certainly agree, thats by far the best conclusion You can draw from this thread I also hope this will made world a safer place (who knows....), and without shaodw of shame i hope i will cause oil prices to fall, they are already ridicoulusly high.
Err, why on earth would oil prices be at all affected by this in any major sense at all?
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so, erm, thye have his dna, and they confirmed its him using said dna. But what did they have to compare it to? lol..
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On May 03 2011 00:21 Thrill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 00:17 Silvanel wrote:On May 02 2011 23:58 OTIX wrote:Wow, if this thread has shown us anything I think it's that there are a lot of idiots in all parts of the world. I certainly agree, thats by far the best conclusion You can draw from this thread I also hope this will made world a safer place (who knows....), and without shaodw of shame i hope i will cause oil prices to fall, they are already ridicoulusly high. Err, why on earth would oil prices be at all affected by this in any major sense at all?
When did oil prices ever conform to common sense?
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On May 03 2011 00:13 archonOOid wrote:Why was Osama Bin Ladin's religious views respected (buried within 24 hours) and not his political views (shot in the head)? Seems kinda funny that you respect his religion after shooting him in the head -Solider: You will be killed, you piece of shit! -But you will be given a free and traditional burial in correspondence with your religion John Mccain said that America wouldn't give him mercy, but they gave his soul mercy. Because of the Islamic burial.
Because respecting the major religion of a volatile region of the world where 100s of 1000s of US troops are currently stationed is generally a good idea?
Are you serious?
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the conformation of his DNA was done by matching it with DNA from his sister's brain (samples taken when she was in Boston for treatment for brain cancer)
from Gizmodo quoting from the Telegraph
"Know how the U.S. military was able to confirm the identity of Bin Laden? They matched his DNA with a sample from his sisters brain which they collected when she died "several years ago."
According to the telegraph, she was living in Boston when passed away from brain cancer "several years ago."
When his sister, who has not been named, died from brain cancer several years ago in Boston the FBI immediately subpoenaed her body so that it could later be used to identify the al-Qaeda leader if he was caught, it was claimed.
The brain was preserved and tissue and blood samples taken from it were used to compile a DNA profile, ABC News reported.
The tissue sample was reportedly then matched to the DNA of the man shot dead by US troops in a raid on bin Laden's compound in Pakistan."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/8488004/Osama-Bin-Ladens-body-identified-by-sisters-brain.html
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I wonder what'll happen to Al-Qaeda activities now :/
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On May 03 2011 00:22 woob wrote:
so, erm, thye have his dna, and they confirmed its him using said dna. But what did they have to compare it to? lol..
See here is the problem. Right now what your doing is trying to create a conspiracy instead of taking the time to investigate to see if your clever observation is correct (its not). If your looking for a place to start I would suggest nytimes or google.
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EPT
