EPTIraq & Syrian Civil Wars - Page 338
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Please guys, stay on topic. This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
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TerranZerg
Russian Federation145 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
On November 25 2015 23:07 TerranZerg wrote: close this thread Compelling argument! | ||
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zeo
Serbia6334 Posts
On November 25 2015 23:04 ImFromPortugal wrote: If the russians claim they were saving ethnic russians in ukraine whats the problem with the turks doing the same? Well then it should be a massive infringement of international law and Turkey should face sanctions. I'm all for sanctions. In other news: The source is Deutsche Welle in Arabic, though google translate of the arabic source says '#Urgent | news of the deaths of 28 children, the Iraqi bombing of the French school in #The connector' I don't know how google translates Arabic but I guess wait for more info. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On November 25 2015 23:04 ImFromPortugal wrote: If the russians claim they were saving ethnic russians in ukraine whats the problem with the turks doing the same? By that logic, we should all start planting bombs in public places around Middle East, Swordfish style. That'd be an exciting world to live in. | ||
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_Animus_
Bulgaria1064 Posts
On November 25 2015 20:52 Salazarz wrote: Except in 2012, NATO condemned the shoot down, calling it an attack and a violation of international laws. But I guess the laws don't apply to NATO since they're the ones who write them, huh. Nevermind that the plane shot down by Syrians was actually a Turkish recon plane which really had no business being where it was. Its because they think they are the chosen one and they are the officials priviliged to judge and give justice on this planet, much like the american government. A bunch of lunatics with huge ambitions. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 25 2015 23:44 LegalLord wrote: NATO is so explicitly partisan that they don't even pretend to try to be objective. If not for their relevance in the world because of the sheer military strength of its member nations (mostly just the US), no one would take it seriously. I could say the same thing about Russia. There is not "objective" in international politics. Its all conflicting points of view, all claiming to be objective. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6334 Posts
“It’s impossible that we violated their airspace even for a second,” Konstantin Murakhtin told Russia’s Rossiya 1 channel. “We were flying at an altitude of 6,000 meters in completely clear weather, and I had total control of our flight path throughout.” As well as denying Ankara’s assertions that the plane was in Turkey’s airspace, Murakhtin also refuted Turkish officials’ claims that the pilots were warned repeatedly. “In actual fact there were no warnings at all. Neither through the radio, nor visually, so we did not at any point adjust our course. You need to understand the difference in speed between a tactical bomber like a Su-24, and that of the F16. If they wanted to warn us, they could have sat on our wing,” said Murakhtin, who is currently recuperating at Russia’s airbase in Latakia, northern Syria. “As it was, the missile hit the back of our plane out of nowhere. We didn’t even have time to make an evasive maneuver.” source | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22068 Posts
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lastpuritan
United States540 Posts
On November 25 2015 23:04 ImFromPortugal wrote: If the russians claim they were saving ethnic russians in ukraine whats the problem with the turks doing the same? Exactly! I was reading in a big way to see this single statement! Well done there! People argued pages after pages but missed some simple known facts, thus their judgement shaped accordingly. - Turkey was not aware that it was a Russian Jet, as they claim. Two options then: 1 - Syrian jet - INSTANT KILL. ( You know Syria hit Turkish jet without warning and then Turkey did the same and then Turkey did it again and declared that they will hit any Syrian jet without warning etc. etc. ) 2 - Russian jet - Warnings and shoot. ( Turkey officially declared they will take serious measures if Russian jets do it again weeks ago. ) - Did Turkey send warnings? Lets have a look. We were able to hear everything that was going on, these (communications) were on open channels" -Baghdad-based military spokesman Colonel Steve Warren said in a video call with reporters. - Was it necessary to shoot it down even if you officially warned them when you were %100 sure that jet pose no threat to your real sovereignty? No it was not. Killing is killing. You cant justify it with your moral and just. However it goes a bit deeper than that with Turkmens issue. Turkmens in Syria and Iraq aren't a different race than Turks of Turkey, they were Ottoman citizens and Turks still see them as their own citizen and kin. Well, if you still think "races" do exist, it makes sense for Turks to oveeeer-react when you keep bombing them for days. Note that those Turkmen brigades operated with PYD in several offensives against ISIS. Are they really terrorists? To Syrian regime, who but themselves, is not? Obama on this: (he sends another message to Russia, if you dont want things like this to happen more, focus on ISIS ) ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUovzEUWwAA1o28.jpg:large) This picture from couple of days ago reveals a lot... ![[image loading]](http://imggaleri.hurriyet.com.tr/LiveImages/Foto%20Haber/334/G-20%20Zirvesi'nden%20ilgin%c3%a7%20kareler/G15142720.jpg?15112015144017) On November 25 2015 04:11 Deathstar wrote: I am just glad we all see Turkey for the country that it is. Turkey does not belong with the west. Turkey invaded Cyprus. Turkey aids jihadis. Turkey is aiding ISIS. Turkey, a part of NATO, decides to go loose cannon and shoot down a Russian warplane in Syria to protect Turkey's jihadis. Amazing time we are living in. Every discussion about Turkey should end with either Armenian genocide, Cyprus or Nato membership. Right? We need to win Russia and N.Korea, we need to win Turkey and Iran, remember, an united world against wars and terrorism? Paris? | ||
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zeo
Serbia6334 Posts
On November 26 2015 00:12 Plansix wrote: Russia Today says Russia didn't do anything wrong and everyone else is to blame. At least they are consistent. Writing down the words of someone involved in an incident, oh! the propaganda! Lets see what BBC says: The surviving pilot of a Russian plane shot down by Turkey on the Syrian border has said no warning was given. Capt Konstantin Murakhtin told Russian television there was "no way" the jet could have violated Turkish airspace. Russia said Capt Murakhtin was rescued in a 12-hour operation involving special forces. It is not clear what happened to the body of his co-pilot, who was killed by gunfire as he parachuted from the burning plane. Capt Murakhtin was speaking from the Hmeymim airbase, where Russia's aircraft have been based in its Syrian campaign, and where he was taken after being rescued. Tensions have escalated between the two countries over the incident, and Russia has broken off military contacts with Turkey. The US, the EU and the UN have all appealed for calm. President Putin has described the downing of the plane as a "stab in the back", and warned of serious consequences. Turkey's President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has defended the action, saying "everyone must respect the right of Turkey to protect its borders", but he stressed he did not want to escalate tensions further. Turkey is a member of Nato. The alliance has backed Turkey's version of events, although it, too, is calling for "diplomacy and de-escalation" to resolve the situation. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34925229 So I posted the article that actually shows what he said instead of just 'no way'... So, 116 words directly quoted from the pilot, compared to 2... On November 26 2015 00:13 Gorsameth wrote: I am shocked! that Russian pilot had the exact same explanation as the Russian government.... Where do you think the Russian government gets their information from? Take off the tin-foil hat for two seconds mate. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 26 2015 00:18 zeo wrote: Writing down the words of someone involved in an incident, oh! the propaganda! Lets see what BBC says: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34925229 So I posted the article that actually shows what he said instead of just 'no way'... Where do you think the Russian government gets their information from? Take off the tin-foil hat for two seconds mate. I don’t believe my own government’s military and police when they claim they didn’t do anything wrong. Why would I believe Russia's pilot? | ||
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lastpuritan
United States540 Posts
Kerry last time: "We're greatly concerned about it, because it is precisely the kind of thing that, had Turkey responded under its rights, could have resulted in a shootdown." Turkish Prime Minister last time "The Turkish armed forces are clearly instructed," and "even if it is a flying bird, it will be intercepted." | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
Now if you accept that whatever went down in Ukraine was 'bad' and Russia was sanctioned deservedly, Turkey has to at least pretend they don't care about the Turkmen militants and act accordingly; using them as an excuse to mess with Russian operations is completely against the sanctions put in place against Russia over the Ukrainean disputes. There's really nothing making the Turkmen separatists 'better' or more 'legitimate' than the Crimean ones. It's like the thing with Turkish plane shot down I brought up earlier; you either condemn both that one and this one, or you accept that nations 'have the right to protect their borders' in both cases -- you can't change your mind whenever it fits your story better without looking like, well, a politician, I guess. Ahem. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On November 26 2015 00:18 zeo wrote: Writing down the words of someone involved in an incident, oh! the propaganda! Lets see what BBC says: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34925229 So I posted the article that actually shows what he said instead of just 'no way'... So, 116 words directly quoted from the pilot, compared to 2... Where do you think the Russian government gets their information from? Take off the tin-foil hat for two seconds mate. I've known for a long time that you really like your russian propaganda trolling, but common you can do better than that. Any military pilot in that situation would say something like that and never disagree with their superiors, and I am not talking about russia in particular. What he is saying is just not relevant in any way, unless he can bring details that no one has brought before, which he did not. I am more interested to know how he survived. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
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heliusx
United States2306 Posts
On November 25 2015 23:44 LegalLord wrote: NATO is so explicitly partisan that they don't even pretend to try to be objective. If not for their relevance in the world because of the sheer military strength of its member nations (mostly just the US), no one would take it seriously. It's not 'mostly just the US'. Many of NATO's members are military and economic powerhouses. Were strong because we stand together. And that's why Russia spends all it's time trying to pick NATO apart. | ||
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