Phelps is overrated

On August 15 2004 14:33 hasuwar wrote:
I don't know wtf you are talking about, but I remember when mTV said 50 cent was a new age tupac, and I was pretty pissed..so I know what you're feeling

On August 15 2004 14:29 ejai63 wrote:
edit: nah, the 4x100 was really close btw us and netherlands. us lead with 50 meters left, but van den hoogenband - maybe the fastest swimmer in the world - caught up to him. netherlands won by .15 seconds

On August 15 2004 14:18 mensrea wrote:
The last time any swimmer even remotely had the chance to break Spitz's record performance of 7 Gold medals in a single Olympics was in '88 when Biondi came in hyped to the hilt - and came very very close to living up to it by winning 5 Golds, 1 S8ilver and 1 Bronze.

Phelps doesn't seem very impressive at all. I say 3 Golds, maybe 4 if lucky.

On August 15 2004 14:44 mensrea wrote:
Nope. Best swimmers in the world peak in the late teens. He'll be slightly over-the-hill come next Olympics. Just ask Thorpe.

On August 15 2004 15:45 ejai63 wrote:


It is true that swimmers can peak at an early age, but swimmers can maintain their peak for a long time. Thorpe is still swimming at the same level he was 5 years ago, maybe better. Other guys like popov, van den hoogenband, and others are still elite swimmers when they're 25+

On August 16 2004 09:53 Phil wrote:
a little lack of endurance for hoogenband.. he's still awesome

he has my vote for the 100m

On August 16 2004 10:03 Freezer_au wrote:
I agree he is overated and too cocky. Thorpe own him any day any place

On August 16 2004 10:18 KOFgokuon wrote:


If they swam in Phelp's actual strengths (200/400 IM 100/200 fly, even the 200 back) thorpe wouldn't even be close

the fact that Phelps can dominate in so many different events makes him the best overall swimmer. period. the fastest? depends on your definition of fast. technically alexander popov is still the fastest cause the holds the record in the 50 meter afaik, could have changed

On August 16 2004 11:22 Renots_Potiomkin wrote:


basically you know what you talk about, others don't.

Great victory for Thorpe, Pieter gave him good competition. And i give my vote for the 100m free for Pieter, maybe on another amazing sub 48 swim.

On August 16 2004 13:07 Bill307 wrote:
Oh wow. "Plenty of cases." There are always execptions to the average person (see http://www.santarosa.edu/~dpeterso/permanenthtml/propaganda/prop_anecdotal.htm ). I care if you can show me that the majority of people perform against what I wrote. And if you're going to do that, then you'll have to give me sources that I trust better than a psychology textbook author.

I said that it is likely that Phelps will be past his prime, and you have done nothing to counter that statement.

On August 17 2004 17:01 Renots_Potiomkin wrote:
Amazing performance by the american team on the 4*200 free. Phelps lead the team to a tight win vs the australians. Klete Keller, the last person to swam the relay did a fabulous swim. So did Thorpe, just maybe going too fast in the beginning.
So now phelps has 3 golds and 3 bronze medals, with 1 clear more gold to come (200 IM) and a decent shot on the 100 fly (and thus the relay)
6 golds + 2 bronze medals still can be achieved.
btw phelps was challenged by 2 swimmers (british parry and japanese dunno the name) on the 200 fly

On August 18 2004 06:22 Renots wrote:


*3 golds, 2 bronze*
p.s.: typo, same with me

On August 19 2004 04:02 Renots wrote:
yes and the hungarian little guy was awesome too, what a comeback at the end of the race.
oh and it was sad for Brendan Hansen not to get a gold.. he broke both 100-200m breastroke WR in Olympic trials just a while ago so t.t
anyway, tonight phelps gets another gold and peirsol too. I want to see Phelps performance of tomorrow in the 100 fly very badly. If he wins that event then he gets 6 golds 2 bronze. If he gets second to crocker then he's kinda "fucked up". And yes Mensrea, to be fucked up with 4 golds and 3 more medals is just too much. But i think Phelps is also responsible (not only the american media) for creating all this hype of breaking Spitz's record (he said he was capable and that he accepted the challenge). Just a way for Speedo to get attention on swimming and on Phelps, who is getting lots of money.

On August 19 2004 11:16 Hot_Bid wrote:
anyone else find it very ironic that the American guy who whined and accused that japanese guy that won the breaststroke of an illegal dolphin kick (judges ruled his kick was legal) got disqualified for an illegal turn (the American would've set a record and won the gold)

talk about your karma haha

On August 19 2004 11:16 Hot_Bid wrote:
anyone else find it very ironic that the American guy who whined and accused that japanese guy that won the breaststroke of an illegal dolphin kick (judges ruled his kick was legal) got disqualified for an illegal turn (the American would've set a record and won the gold)

talk about your karma haha

On August 19 2004 19:42 homoerectus_ wrote:


and the americans do have this thing about always being the best of all time. they always want someone to dethrone mark spitz (which i don't think will ever happen) while australians and other countries hold their old atheletes in high regard you guys just seem to want to put them down.

On August 19 2004 21:45 seeyoulater wrote:


What the Japanese guy did was illegal and Piersol made a valid claim. What Piersol did was hardly illegal and that's mostly why it was overturned and mostly why the guy who won silver said he probably wouldn't have accepted the Gold if Piersol was DQ'd.

On August 20 2004 00:53 mensrea wrote:


Why do you trust the officials' decision in swimming in one case, but not the other? I saw the little dolphin kick that Kitajima did in his swim. I thought it should have been called. But, then again, I am not completely familiar with the rules governing the event in IOC competition. On the other hand, the swim officials pool-side DO know the rules quite well. In fact, they know the rules better than you or I do. And they also saw the dolphin kick. From a half dozen different angles. And they addressed it. And they ultimately decided it was within the rules. It's their judgement call. I also assume the officials ultimately got the Piersol decision right. That should be the end of that.

Some of you people are incredible sour grapes. Just unbelievable. Nobody mentions the fact that Kitajima was one of the two best breast strokers in the world coming into the event. Even Hansen tacitly admits Kitajima swam one heckuva final ("I didn't swim my race. I swam his. That's exactly what he wanted me to do."). And Kitajima, being Japanese, is too humble and gracious to even defend himself in public. But, he let his swimming do all the talking - he proved his 100 wasn't a fluke by also winning the 200 - with no controversy. Give the guy some credit, instead of whining about how everyone in the world except those on your team are cheaters.

On August 20 2004 00:53 mensrea wrote:


Why do you trust the officials' decision in swimming in one case, but not the other? I saw the little dolphin kick that Kitajima did in his swim. I thought it should have been called. But, then again, I am not completely familiar with the rules governing the event in IOC competition. On the other hand, the swim officials pool-side DO know the rules quite well. In fact, they know the rules better than you or I do. And they also saw the dolphin kick. From a half dozen different angles. And they addressed it. And they ultimately decided it was within the rules. It's their judgement call. I also assume the officials ultimately got the Piersol decision right. That should be the end of that.

Some of you people are incredible sour grapes. Just unbelievable. Nobody mentions the fact that Kitajima was one of the two best breast strokers in the world coming into the event. Even Hansen tacitly admits Kitajima swam one heckuva final ("I didn't swim my race. I swam his. That's exactly what he wanted me to do."). And Kitajima, being Japanese, is too humble and gracious to even defend himself in public. But, he let his swimming do all the talking - he proved his 100 wasn't a fluke by also winning the 200 - with no controversy. Give the guy some credit, instead of whining about how everyone in the world except those on your team are cheaters.

On August 20 2004 01:16 mensrea wrote:
I've read reports (Reuters, I think...) that the judges conferred afterwards about the slight kick. My understanding is that they did see something, but made the ultimate judgment call (as it is within their right to do) that it wasn't illegal.

Anyway, that's my understanding of what went down. In the end, it's pure speculation whether Kitajima's kick won the 100 for him. Given Hansen's comments, and given that Hansen swam much slower than he usually does (as he admitted), I'm more inclined to believe it wouldn't have made a difference in the outcome.

On August 20 2004 01:37 amat wrote:
He clearly cheated. I think the judges just decided to let it go because he would have won the race without the kick. No reason to get Japan angry at them all.

It was the correct decision not to DQ him. Kitajima gets a well deserved gold and a stigma.

On August 20 2004 01:48 amat wrote:
They made a decision not to DQ even though there was clearly an illegal move. The judges are not forced to do anything.

On August 19 2004 20:27 SpuniasauR wrote:
"the lion of Athens" -Roy and H.G.

On August 20 2004 02:11 Brett wrote:


The brillance of that quote is sadly lost on people not living in Aus and watching Rampaging Roy Slaven and HG Nelson every night. Their loss

On August 20 2004 03:11 ebba wrote:


Roy and H.G > all

On August 15 2004 14:18 mensrea wrote:
The last time any swimmer even remotely had the chance to break Spitz's record performance of 7 Gold medals in a single Olympics was in '88 when Biondi came in hyped to the hilt - and came very very close to living up to it by winning 5 Golds, 1 S8ilver and 1 Bronze.

Phelps doesn't seem very impressive at all. I say 3 Golds, maybe 4 if lucky.

On August 20 2004 00:53 mensrea wrote:


Why do you trust the officials' decision in swimming in one case, but not the other? I saw the little dolphin kick that Kitajima did in his swim. I thought it should have been called. But, then again, I am not completely familiar with the rules governing the event in IOC competition. On the other hand, the swim officials pool-side DO know the rules quite well. In fact, they know the rules better than you or I do. And they also saw the dolphin kick. From a half dozen different angles. And they addressed it. And they ultimately decided it was within the rules. It's their judgement call. I also assume the officials ultimately got the Piersol decision right. That should be the end of that.

Some of you people are incredible sour grapes. Just unbelievable. Nobody mentions the fact that Kitajima was one of the two best breast strokers in the world coming into the event. Even Hansen tacitly admits Kitajima swam one heckuva final ("I didn't swim my race. I swam his. That's exactly what he wanted me to do."). And Kitajima, being Japanese, is too humble and gracious to even defend himself in public. But, he let his swimming do all the talking - he proved his 100 wasn't a fluke by also winning the 200 - with no controversy. Give the guy some credit, instead of whining about how everyone in the world except those on your team are cheaters.

On August 20 2004 14:53 KOFgokuon wrote:
otherwise michael phelps is gonna look REALLY stupid for giving up his spot. a real team player in this case tho.

On August 21 2004 02:45 amat wrote:
(BTW - If evilteletubby uses that name on east, I've played you in the last few weeks on bw. Very manner player )

On August 21 2004 02:52 mensrea wrote:
He's lived up to the hype, imo. Very impressive.

And, with his letting Crocker take a shot at a Gold, he's also a true Olympian. Gotta admire this guy.