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On January 23 2010 07:44 reincremate wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 07:31 zobz wrote:
If western media is exagerating government problems in china, does that mean we should trust chinese media to tell how completely nice and proper it actually is? Am i wrong in thinking that the chinese government has open control over its media? No one said the the Chinese media is trustworthy. All media should be taken with a grain of salt. I was meaning to imply that chinese media is exactly what influences alot of people to defend the trustworthiness of china's government, to impliment such laws, to get so involved in private enterprise and the communication industry in particular, which any people depends on to keep themselves and others well informed despite rotten media, as well as to organize protests and such anti-government doings.
They're already censoring the internet heavilly as i understand it. It seems far from paranoid to question their reasons for wanting to get their foot in the door of text messaging, especially given its role in recent uprisings around china.
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On January 29 2010 05:21 haduken wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2010 22:59 snotboogie wrote:
As an ethnic Chinese I would like to say that the posts about China needing centralized power and Tiananmen being an unavoidable necessity is pure BS. It was an atrocity, and to think otherwise is to retreat into a shell of rationalization and almost a form of Stockholm Syndrome. People who think like that are traitors to the country in my eyes.
There are reasons that people are protesting and still getting arrested for dissention. It's not because they want the Communist Party to show strength. It's not because they want a strong central power. That's ridiculous and retarded. They want the rule of law and freedom of speech.
Freedom is not free, and that's why it's easy to rationalize. A "compromise that a strong and effective government is better than anything else" is a lie and the fact that many Chinese think this way is abhorrent and shameful to me. It sickens me. But not all people think like that. Many people are dissatisfied with not having their rights, many more than you hear on the news. That's because they are censored and controlled, and the figureheads of such movements locked up, most recently on Christmas Day. The fact that they sacrifice so much while others look on and accept that liberties are taken from everybody, to avoid uncomfortableness and "chaos", disgusts me to my core. It's okay to disagree but I would like you provide some examples to support the freedom and struggle that you speak of. Of course people are not happy, who would be happy? but to say that a great or at least influential portion of the populace support the course are unsubstantiated. Just being Chinese doesn't make you auto-correct on anything about China.
From one month ago: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/25/china-jails-liu-xiaobo
One of China's most prominent human rights activists was condemned today to 11 years in prison, prompting a furious backlash from domestic bloggers and international civil society groups.
Liu Xiaobo, the founder of the Charter 08 campaign for constitutional reform, was given the unusually harsh jail term on Christmas Day in an apparent attempt to minimise international attention.
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Many activists were kept under house arrest or warned not to attend the hearings, but the contemporary artist Ai Weiwei was among those at the courtroom. "This does not mean a meteor has fallen. This is the discovery of a star," he tweeted. "Although this is a sentence on Liu Xiaobo alone, it is also a slap on the face for everyone in China."
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He told friends that he knew the risk of imprisonment when he drafted Charter 08, which demands the open election of public officials, freedom of religion and expression, and the abolition of subversion laws.
"We should end the practice of viewing words as crimes," the petition says.
Liu was arrested last December before the Charter was made public. Other drafters and signatories have been harassed. The mainstream media have been forbidden to cover the subject and censors have blocked many related internet sites and articles. Many Chinese are unaware that it exists.
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^ and again, who really gave a toss?
Hence my point, he and his course is noble but are by no mean a representation of the society as a whole.
For something like this to succeed, you will need at least some group of powers to back it.
Communist party is huge. I think you grossly misunderstand the political dynamics.
Academics have served the communist party as much as anyone else. They are so very much separated from the majority.
So 8000 people have signed of it? Seriously, even crappy emo sites like mop.com get that many sign-age on their polls.
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Last I checked, there weren't too many people sending porn material via text messaging.
But knowing the Chinese government censorship, they'll probably just come up with a shitload of false positives. Once they tried to have every computer assembled in China come with software that would block porn images, sites, and videos. It was ineffective in blocking porn and somehow came up with false positives as well.
That project was scrapped. Hope this one will get it soon too.
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Assume it's actually feasible, I'd say about fucking time, IMO. Cellphone spams pisses me off more than the dinner-time sales call I used to receive in the States.
Btw, it's kind of funny to read this after reading the Fox News thread. It's weird how everyone automatically dismiss Fox News for their "spin", yet no one cares the horribly biased cultural spin on any foreign news.
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On January 29 2010 16:53 haduken wrote:
^ and again, who really gave a toss?
Hence my point, he and his course is noble but are by no mean a representation of the society as a whole.
For something like this to succeed, you will need at least some group of powers to back it.
Communist party is huge. I think you grossly misunderstand the political dynamics.
Academics have served the communist party as much as anyone else. They are so very much separated from the majority.
So 8000 people have signed of it? Seriously, even crappy emo sites like mop.com get that many sign-age on their polls. It seems to me that he was never trying to make a case that there is a problem in china On the basis of the fact that people are trying to do something to stop it. Rather he was saying that there's a problem, and that people who are trying to stop it are often misunderstood as to what they "want".
He's saying that obviously censorship and propoganda in china has been successful to quite some degree. That people think there is no problem, who get most of their information from chinese media, does not at all signify that there is no problem. Why don't you try and tell me that blatant internet censorship, actually trying to prevent the people from having discussions and doing research on the actions of their own government, is not seriously fucked up?
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Baa?21243 Posts
On January 29 2010 17:37 Loanshark wrote:
Last I checked, there weren't too many people sending porn material via text messaging.
I don't think you live in China if you say this lol.
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dude i could be banned for texting my girlfriend?
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Baa?21243 Posts
On January 30 2010 01:54 Inzek wrote:
dude i could be banned for texting my girlfriend?
Yes. You get a A+ for reading comprehension, good job~~!
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people will find way to bypass that sytem...eventually.
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On January 29 2010 02:40 TwoSugarsAndACream wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2010 16:18 Robinsa wrote:
Thats exactly the problem. Even if they are discontent with the government they wont even be able to text it without facing the risk of going to jail. I dont know what the chinese people want, but I agree with you; It would indeed be best if they could express themselves instead of someone else talkinig for them. Last time I checked people that actually spoke their mind in china ended up in jail, or worse. You know, I think if the Japanese won the war Chinese people would be all fine and dandy right? WRONG robinsa, you are criticizing a government that protected us from your country who raped and destroyed us. So before you say anything about china or comment on the cruelty of the chinese government, think about what your nation did to us first. And by the way, what do you have to say about the japanese refusing to teach kids about the rape of nanking and the negative things they did to China? Show nested quote +On January 23 2010 07:10 Integra wrote:
I see the brainwashing and conditioning by the Chinese government is working just as fine as well.
so now when someone from another country, whos ACTUALLY lived in china, talks about china positively, you call that brainwash? oh plz, enlighten me. I have something for you. I was born in china and came to canada, and i dont think Canada is that much better. Am i brainwashed? What do u say to that?
Uhm, actually, yeah man. You seem ultra brainwashed. The anti-japanese sentiment; the government-hugging attitude and the total negligence of how the communist dictatorship have driven the people to starvation, put them in jail for arbitrary reasons, killed them en masse, and even come at them with tanks.
So yeah, you're brainwashed :o.
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I agree. You do seem brainwashed, because you're bringing in random shit about WW2 that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Not only that, you credit the current government with protecting China from the Japanese when the Communists didn't get into power until 4 years after that war had ended. Maybe you worship your red gods a bit too much.
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....You both should take a history course on modern East Asia. Anti-Japanese sentiments are not a result of media brainwashing, there's good historical basis for why many Chinese (and Koreans) do not like the Japanese, and one of the reasons the communist party was able to come into power was because they were able to defend the more rural areas against the Japanese when the nationalists were more focused in big cities, gaining them the support of the rural masses.
snotboogie: When did you leave China? Being ethnically Chinese doesn't really mean anything if your upbringing is completely western and your entire understanding of the country comes from western sources.
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Baa?21243 Posts
On January 30 2010 02:24 snotboogie wrote:
I agree. You do seem brainwashed, because you're bringing in random shit about WW2 that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Not only that, you credit the current government with protecting China from the Japanese when the Communists didn't get into power until 4 years after that war had ended. Maybe you worship your red gods a bit too much.
Actually, in the second Sino-Japanese war, the KMP and the CCP had an alliance in order to stop the Japanese invasion, seeing as they had been at civil war since 1927. The communists contributed just as much, if not more, than the nationalists during the war. In the end, it was Chiang Kai Shek who broke the agreements of the Second United Front in the early 1940s, still in the midst of the Japanese invasion, in an attempt to dispose of the communists, whom he viewed as a bigger threat to the ROC than the Japanese invasion. If he had not broken the Second United Front, the Japanese invasion would've been repelled much earlier than 1945, because it was the diverted focus of the KMT on the CCP that allowed the Japanese army to recuperate and recover ground in China.
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There are a lot of historical reasons for anti-Japanese sentiment, but it would be outright lying if you think that the governments of China and Korea have never propagated more anti-Japanese sentiments towards the public.
Even besides all that, what does the blind hatred towards the Japanese accomplish? Of course the Japanese government got away with most of the shit that they have done in the past and even now they distort the history they teach to their students and deny/avoid allegations, but just because their government is like that does not mean that the Japanese people as a whole are like that. Government =/= people, and the hate has to stop somewhere.
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Baa?21243 Posts
It's not -blind- hate, it's very justified hate. Whether it should or should not exist is another matter entirely.
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Canada9720 Posts
that doesn't make any sense. if you assume its justification, then you're validating its existence.
hate's never justified bro
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Baa?21243 Posts
Justified wasthe wrong word, understandable is probably closer to what I meant to say - there's an easy to see reason underlying the hate is what I'm getting at.
And it's not hate persay, more of a general/strong discontentment at the way things are. If modern day Germany refuses to acknowledge the Holocaust like Japan is doing with its atrocities, I'm sure it would cause just as much, if not more of an uproar. The double standards/general ignorance here is kind of annoying - anyone even hints at the possibility of denying the Holocaust immediately gets jumped on, whereas the Japanese government and educational institutions systemically attempt to suppress knowledge of their WWII atrocities in China/Korea/Southeast Asia/the Pacific.
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The thing is that the discontent with the Japanese government almost always spills over into hate for the Japanese people in general; people that often don't even know that their government is doing some really wrong things. Hate their government, yes, sure, you should feel pissed off at what the Japanese government has gotten away with and still do to this day. But hate the Japanese people as a whole? No, there is definitely something wrong with that. This is where the blindness of nationalism comes in.
Also, posters on this forum ALWAYS jump on anti-Japanese sentimentality whenever the opportunity arises for it. There has been far more anti-Japanese posts than anti-Nazism posts on this forum throughout its entire history. I have no idea where you've been getting this double-standard stuff from.
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EPT
