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On September 17 2009 12:58 Sadist wrote:
I know all about the outrage. Im talking about the scale of it. Even if shit was burned like I said thats a drop in the bucket of the population. You wouldnt criticize the entire US based on the actions of KKK or the people who bomb abortion clinics.
That's exactly my point. Those protests were against the Western world, and Denmark in particular. Which is ridiculous. As ridiculous as it is to hold the whole Muslim world responsible for the action of a few Muslims. The protests against the Danish cartoons were aimed at the Western world and in particular Denmark. Which is precisely what your professor is doing except he reverses it and uses their generalization against themselves.
Now I don't know if he's serious about this or whether he's using it to show them how stupid it is.
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His delivery is extraordinarily (and somewhat disturbingly) poor for a professor, but I can't blame him for taking issue with a Muslim student group. There have been numerous cases around the country in which Muslim student organizations have been exposed as fostering extremism, violence and antisemitism.
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On September 17 2009 13:01 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2009 12:58 Sadist wrote:
I know all about the outrage. Im talking about the scale of it. Even if shit was burned like I said thats a drop in the bucket of the population. You wouldnt criticize the entire US based on the actions of KKK or the people who bomb abortion clinics. That's exactly my point. Those protests were against the Western world, and Denmark in particular. Which is ridiculous. As ridiculous as it is to hold the whole Muslim world responsible for the action of a few Muslims.
The students were protesting them as hate speech. Not that they fucking drew Mohammed.
Believe me. Im atheist to the core and think religion shouldnt be treated with any respect really....however what the guy wrote was way the fuck out of line for a student organization.
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so, not to derail the thread, but i'm teaching a freshman composition course, anyone have ideas for how to inject some crazy into it? i thought about instituting a "if your cell phone rings during class, you have to let me answer it" policy
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On September 17 2009 12:59 Gnosis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2009 12:47 mOnion wrote:On September 17 2009 12:43 theron[wdt] wrote:On September 17 2009 12:35 BanZu wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with his letter. i don't either are you blind? its called the slippery slope fallacy. where because the students are protesting a cartoon, it obviously means they are part of a terrorist organisation and are slave traders etc etc the guys a loony Just to put this out there; the Islam the West knows isn't the Islam practiced in Africa, Asia minor and the Middle East. To resign myself to title of 'bigot,' the phrase 'Muslim extremist' is a misnomer. Literal belief in the Qur'an necessitates this sort of extremism, it's inherent in Islam; not so much the Qur'an as the Hadith (non-literal belief in the Qur'an necessitates apostasy). If these students hail from the Middle East, Africa or Asia minor, then the attitude they've brought over towards the West isn't one of friendliness. If they are true to the teachings of the Qur'an, that extremist attitude will eventually manifest. Consider the fact that they are protesting cartoons, some of which are known to be fraudulent -- they don't have a right to not be offended. I'm not saying these students are like this. What I am saying, though, is that the West doesn't understand Islam. I also have no interest in arguing the point with someone who isn't Islamic.
And if you took everyword the bible says at its face value, you'd have to execute every gay, lesbo, cheating husbands/wives, the list goes on.
(sarcasm)So yeah. It is inherent in Christian culture that violence against such groups is not only good, but supported by God. Long live the KKK!
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On September 17 2009 13:03 Sadist wrote:
The students were protesting them as hate speech. Not that they fucking drew Mohammed.
Believe me. Im atheist to the core and think religion shouldnt be treated with any respect really....however what the guy wrote was way the fuck out of line for a student organization.
Yes, big deal? Some people hate in SC, others hate on MMA. Some make bad jokes about the things I like. Big fucking deal. I don't disagree they were offensive to Muslims, but try look for cartoons that are offensive to Christians or Jews, you would never be done with the amount of those out there.
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On September 17 2009 12:59 Gnosis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2009 12:47 mOnion wrote:On September 17 2009 12:43 theron[wdt] wrote:On September 17 2009 12:35 BanZu wrote:
I don't see anything wrong with his letter. i don't either are you blind? its called the slippery slope fallacy. where because the students are protesting a cartoon, it obviously means they are part of a terrorist organisation and are slave traders etc etc the guys a loony Just to put this out there; the Islam the West knows isn't the Islam practiced in Africa, Asia minor and the Middle East. To resign myself to title of 'bigot,' the phrase 'Muslim extremist' is a misnomer. Literal belief in the Qur'an necessitates this sort of extremism, it's inherent in Islam; not so much the Qur'an as the Hadith (non-literal belief in the Qur'an necessitates apostasy). If these students hail from the Middle East, Africa or Asia minor, then the attitude they've brought over towards the West isn't one of friendliness. If they are true to the teachings of the Qur'an, that extremist attitude will eventually manifest. Consider the fact that they are protesting cartoons, some of which are known to be fraudulent -- they don't have a right to not be offended. I'm not saying these students are like this. What I am saying, though, is that the West doesn't understand Islam. I also have no interest in arguing the point with someone who isn't Islamic.
This statement is largely true. I am not Islamic, and while I can only claim the superficial knowledge that taking a class on Islam taught by an Islamic professor can provide, it is quite true that the Qur'an is meant to be taken literally. So much so that to even read it in a language other than Arabic is tantamount to not reading the true words. To be a real Muslim, and not be forever second-class, you have to learn Arabic so that you can read the true words of Allah. It is definitely meant to be taken completely literally, and it is quite extremist in it's sayings. Read it yourself!
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On September 17 2009 13:05 benjammin wrote:
so, not to derail the thread, but i'm teaching a freshman composition course, anyone have ideas for how to inject some crazy into it? i thought about instituting a "if your cell phone rings during class, you have to let me answer it" policy
I think this deserves a thread
Insert poll to determine what crazy bullcrap you pull on your students
I vote for a dunce hat anyone has to wear when they ask a question including the words "why" "what" or "how".
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On September 17 2009 11:46 koreasilver wrote:
How is this prof still holding his job.
This is the bad side of tenure in American unis.
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On September 17 2009 13:01 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2009 12:58 Sadist wrote:
I know all about the outrage. Im talking about the scale of it. Even if shit was burned like I said thats a drop in the bucket of the population. You wouldnt criticize the entire US based on the actions of KKK or the people who bomb abortion clinics. That's exactly my point. Those protests were against the Western world, and Denmark in particular. Which is ridiculous. As ridiculous as it is to hold the whole Muslim world responsible for the action of a few Muslims. The protests against the Danish cartoons were aimed at the Western world and in particular Denmark. Which is precisely what your professor is doing except he reverses it and uses their generalization against themselves. Now I don't know if he's serious about this or whether he's using it to show them how stupid it is.
I believe his point was that they were protesting something insignificant and silly in comparison to the things occurring in Muslim regions and that is what they should be protesting. The actions of some do not define a people, but the people's response does. There are people in Muslim nations fighting for change while they are protesting cartoons...
This is not necessarily my opinion, just where I think the professor was coming from.
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I dont really have a problem with his letter up until
I counsel you dissatisfied, aggressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems to be very aware of this as you proceeded with your infantile “protests.” If you do not like the values of the West — see the 1st Amendment — you are free to leave.
I hope for God’s sake that most of you choose that option.
Please return to your ancestral homelands and build them up yourselves instead of troubling Americans.
that just sounds ridiculous
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Saying all those acts are the responsability of the whole of muslim culture is like saying tha drug trafficking is responsability of the whole of latin american culture.
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counsel you dissatisfied, aggressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems to be very aware of this as you proceeded with your infantile “protests.”
It does sound ridiculous, without that sentence the letter is not bad at all.
But can't it be that by making those over the top statements he is trying to show them how ridiculous it is to judge all of Denmark over some cartoon? Just as how ridiculous it is that he is equaling these students to the deeds of other Muslims.
If you do not like the values of the West — see the 1st Amendment — you are free to leave.
What's wrong with this? If you are protesting against freedom of speech I seriously urge you not to live in a western country. Everyone is free to stick to their culture and their norms and values, but there's a few things in the western world that are simply not up for discussion. Freedom of speech and press is one of them.
On September 17 2009 13:20 D10 wrote:
Saying all those acts are the responsability of the whole of muslim culture is like saying tha drug trafficking is responsability of the whole of latin american culture.
Or that a whole country is responsible for some random cartoons.
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On September 17 2009 13:23 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +counsel you dissatisfied, aggressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems to be very aware of this as you proceeded with your infantile “protests.” It does sound ridiculous, without that sentence the letter is not bad at all. But can't it be that by making those over the top statements he is trying to show them how ridiculous it is to judge all of Denmark over some cartoon? Just as how ridiculous it is that he is equaling these students to the deeds of other Muslims. Show nested quote +If you do not like the values of the West — see the 1st Amendment — you are free to leave. What's wrong with this? If you are protesting against freedom of speech I seriously urge you not to live in a western country. Everyone is free to stick to their culture and their norms and values, but there's a few things in the western world that are simply not up for discussion. Freedom of speech and press is one of them.
people werent protesting freedom of speech at msu. Maybe I wasnt clear in that. They were protesting the drawings as "hate" speech. Kind of like what the KKK does. I dunno if you know about it since you live in Europe but when the KKK comes to towns here (specifically Lansing since we are the Capitol of Michigan) tons of people come out to protest them because of what they say. They dont protest their right to say it.
AFAIK the MSU students were not protesting the right to publish the cartoons like a majority of the people in the muslim world(those that were protesting).
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On September 17 2009 13:23 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2009 13:20 D10 wrote:
Saying all those acts are the responsability of the whole of muslim culture is like saying tha drug trafficking is responsability of the whole of latin american culture. Or that a whole country is responsible for some random cartoons.
And I dont think they are saying that.
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I think that when protests all over the world against the Danish cartoons result in flag burnings, deaths, death threats and hate of a whole country, you should think twice before hosting your own protest against Danish cartoons.
I also don't think those cartoons were comparable to what the KKK does. Not 'kind of like that' at all. They are harmless and in poor taste. That is really all there's to it. Any attention you give them is going to create hate both ways. It's not that hard to ignore a tasteless joke. I bet you can find jokes a million times harsher out there about any society, religion or country you want.
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On September 17 2009 13:31 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I think that when protests all over the world against the Danish cartoons result in flag burnings, deaths, death threats and hate of a whole country, you should think twice before hosting your own protest against Danish cartoons.
I also don't think those cartoons were comparable to what the KKK does. Not 'kind of like that' at all. They are harmless and in poor taste. That is really all there's to it. Any attention you give them is going to create hate both ways. It's not that hard to ignore a tasteless joke.
Of course I feel the same way.
However I dont feel like you should label someone an extremist because they protested cartoons that were in poor taste as hate speech. I personally feel you should ignore the KKK because they are a bunch of dumb ignorant fucks and you give them attention by showing up to protest but not everyone agrees with that.
Im sure the muslim kids at MSU just latched onto the bandwagon but then this guy comes out of nowhere and labels them with this shit. Again I dont have any problem with the letter up until the ending (and the use of the word Moslem)
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On September 17 2009 13:05 benjammin wrote:
so, not to derail the thread, but i'm teaching a freshman composition course, anyone have ideas for how to inject some crazy into it? i thought about instituting a "if your cell phone rings during class, you have to let me answer it" policy
My high school math teacher did this. He was an awesome guy.
A lot of it probably depends on your personality and what's natural for you.
He was a sports coach also so if you swore you had the option of writing 10 sentences, 10 pushups, or 10 situps. I don't know what happens when students flat out refuse, our class was pretty nice.
He'd talk about a lot of stories too and how he'd make a scene with his players when they were in public. After winning a game he might take them to dinner and act like this hard ass coach and pretend to yell at his kids. One time one of the people at the restaurant saw it before and said to him in a joking voice oh no what are you gonna do? Then he gave him this death stare like he couldn't believe what that guy just said to him and tried to make his eyes bulge out and neck veins pop out. He was a really interesting guy and a lot of his personality came out when he talked.
He'd make up songs too about math and told us tricks that helped him remember stuff in school.
I don't think most teacher's could pull off his style. But most teacher's can convey some personality when they talk to their students. Lame PG rated jokes are always good. Teachers can often be sorta lame and cool with most students. I didn't know any teacher's that told inappropriate jokes and I'd imagine those could make it really awkward if it fails.
One of my teachers was a history teacher and he really got into it. So when we were learning about the civil war he told us that we'd all do an exercise putting together our gun and reloading each shot outside. Turns out it was raining harder than ever that day and was first period so we all went out there at 8 am in the rain and he pretended to be like a drill sergeant (No pushups) while he timed us on how fast we could reload our guns.
Also later that same teacher did this exercise in the class to simulate trench warfare and the desks were turned on their sides to simulate the maze of trenches we'd go through. Other people were to shoot water guns at people and throw water baloons. We got really wet. Later I remember him saying that he hired a professional steam cleaner twice and the carpet still wasn't the same afterwards.
The history teacher wouldn't be able to copy the math teacher's style nor vice versa. They were both very memorable and good teachers. Do things that fit your personality and do a lot of group exercises to involve students. Games related to what you're teaching is really good and years later people will still remember some of the stuff because it was a distinct memory.
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It wasn't a very nice letter :p
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EPT
