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On September 17 2009 13:38 ForSC2 wrote:
One of my teachers was a history teacher and he really got into it. So when we were learning about the civil war he told us that we'd all do an exercise putting together our gun and reloading each shot outside. Turns out it was raining harder than ever that day and was first period so we all went out there at 8 am in the rain and he pretended to be like a drill sergeant (No pushups) while he timed us on how fast we could reload our guns.
So I get having an interesting teacher, but what confuses me is why you all get civil war-era guns.
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On September 17 2009 12:55 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2009 12:52 Sadist wrote:
I call bullshit on most of that. While people being offended about it im sure happened. Even if there were thousands marching thats a drop in the population. Not everyone in Iran is a fucking nut who screams death to america.
Not to mention
"Moslem" is a total hillbilly and derogatory way to address Muslims in most peoples eyes. Its like calling Asians Orientals or arabs, A-Rabs. Show nested quote +This led to protests across the Muslim world, some of which escalated into violence with police firing on the crowds (resulting in more than 100 deaths, all together),[1] including setting fire to the Danish Embassies in Syria, Lebanon and Iran, storming European buildings, and desecrating the Danish, Dutch, Norwegian and German flags in Gaza City. While a number of Muslim leaders called for protesters to remain peaceful, other Muslim leaders across the globe, including Mahmoud al-Zahar of Hamas, issued death threats.[2][3] Various groups, primarily in the Western world, responded by endorsing the Danish policies, including "Buy Danish" campaigns and other displays of support. Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen described the controversy as Denmark's worst international crisis since World War II.[4] So.. yeah. Show nested quote +On September 17 2009 12:54 win8282 wrote:
A cartoon which was published in a reputable western journal. This is very different from islamic extremist terrorist groups who are far removed from the average muslim. The problem with that cartoon was that it was allowed to be published in the first place.
Can you even imagine the outrage the U.S. students would bring about if a chinese national journal published a cartoon of them blasting the U.S. with a batch of nukes? Or how about if that journal published a Red soldier(as in a communist soldier) stomping over Jesus and his cross, ripping the bible apart with bullets?
PS: I'm a protestan korean living in korea, but I have muslim friends and can't help but feel insulted at your biased and polluted view of muslims I don't know where you got that I have a polluted view of Muslims? I've only that the cartoons created a ridiculous outrage in the Muslim world. That does not mean every Muslim, not even a majority of Muslims. What is wrong with what I said, it's a simple fact.
If you're going to respond at my post, respond to my points, not just the point that's easiest to refute... Comn Liquid!
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I honestly don't think I have anything to add or say if you can't see the difference between a tasteless joke about religion and a cartoon of them blasting the U.S. with a batch of nukes.
And if it was published by a small privately owned newspaper representing the view of 1/1000000000 inhabitants and presented in the form of a joke I don't think anyone would make a big deal out of it.
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On September 17 2009 13:05 benjammin wrote:
so, not to derail the thread, but i'm teaching a freshman composition course, anyone have ideas for how to inject some crazy into it? i thought about instituting a "if your cell phone rings during class, you have to let me answer it" policy
Haha one of my profs at MSU had a well known standing rule that if your cell phone goes off in class you had to wear this funny old hat and he takes a picture of you. It was all in good fun but in reality he has some OCD thing about cell phones (he dosen't own one). It was pretty funny, it only happened once in the 2 classes I had with him but it was great :D
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I'm from Ann Arbor and go to U of M but I have a ton of friend who go to MSU. What's the name of the professor? I wonder if any of my friends had him and share the same opinion.
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On September 17 2009 13:42 armed_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2009 13:38 ForSC2 wrote:
One of my teachers was a history teacher and he really got into it. So when we were learning about the civil war he told us that we'd all do an exercise putting together our gun and reloading each shot outside. Turns out it was raining harder than ever that day and was first period so we all went out there at 8 am in the rain and he pretended to be like a drill sergeant (No pushups) while he timed us on how fast we could reload our guns. So I get having an interesting teacher, but what confuses me is why you all get civil war-era guns.
They weren't real guns, they were some duct taped blocks of wood or something if I remember. (I don't even remember what the gun was.) We did the exercise to simulate the conditions that people that shot in formation would have had to endure. So we lined up in a line and other people would be in front crouched. We'd get timed on putting the gun together and timed on reloading the gun after taking a shot. So we had to follow some steps to reload the gun like pour the gunpowder in put that stick in the hole etc.
It might not have been from the civil war.
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On September 17 2009 12:54 win8282 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2009 12:49 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:On September 17 2009 12:48 Sadist wrote:
what?
You obviously havent been to many college campuses in America. You obviously have no idea of the outrage that cartoon caused in the Muslim world. Read that carefully. A cartoon. A cartoon which was published in a reputable western journal. This is very different from islamic extremist terrorist groups who are far removed from the average muslim. The problem with that cartoon was that it was allowed to be published in the first place. Can you even imagine the outrage the U.S. students would bring about if a chinese national journal published a cartoon of them blasting the U.S. with a batch of nukes? Or how about if that journal published a Red soldier(as in a communist soldier) stomping over Jesus and his cross, ripping the bible apart with bullets? PS: I'm a protestan korean living in korea, but I have muslim friends and can't help but feel insulted at your biased and polluted view of muslims
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/XRrFD.jpg)
come and get me
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On September 17 2009 13:48 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I honestly don't think I have anything to add or say if you can't see the difference between a tasteless joke about religion and a cartoon of them blasting the U.S. with a batch of nukes.
And if it was published by a small privately owned newspaper representing the view of 1/1000000000 inhabitants and presented in the form of a joke I don't think anyone would make a big deal out of it.
Well, they made a big fuss out of it.. and we learned never, ever to make fun of them even with the slightest of jokes. lolz
But just to be on topic, shouldn't a professor not act like an pathetic asshole then bragging about academia? This prof's letter is really way out of line and yeah I don't understand why he hasn't supervised with his behavior.
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I don't understand; you're talking as if the student union was committing the "flag burnings" and whatever bullshit and "hatred against all Westerners". Although I admit I haven't spent the time to look into their protest or anything, from what the guy posted it seems that it is merely a protest against something inappropriate in a reputable journal, not derogatory hatred to the entire Western society. Considering they attend a college in the US, I doubt they would be burning flags either - it is one thing for the few radical extremists in the world to be committing atrocities on the behalf of their religion, but it is a completely different situation if a group of students are merely voicing their distaste in a cartoon posted in a journal. In some places Christian unions issue similar protests and seem to always get their way, but who ever cares about the atrocities their radical followers commit? Every religion has some extremists who do wrong things, but it seems that only Islam is slammed on the most - probably because it is what most people are interested in hearing about. It is also a terrifying sight if someone extrapolates the actions of a few radical Muslims (okay fine, there's quite a lot) to a student group union and the entire religion of Islam, but unfortunately a very high majority of the population seem to be ignorant enough to do that very thing.
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As far as I am concerned any protest against freedom of expression (IE, the existence of a harmless, tasteless cartoon) is pathetic and warrants mocking. His letter was fine up until the end of it, where he was like go the fuck home, which was over the top I guess but who really cares?
Muslim students were protesting the existence of a cartoon, they have the right to do that, just like we have the right to publish the cartoon, mock them for being stupid assholes, and then continue to laugh when we don't care about there protests.
I feel strongly about freedom of speech and expression, if they can't respect that than fuck off. All religions get mocked at some point or another, take it in stride and shut up, if you don't like something then don't look at it. Simple.
I have always had a small grudge and a lack of patience for any people who are intensely religious, I just don't have time to deal with that level of stupidity and gullibility. I am agnostic, they would be offended by my believe that any of the big religions share an equal amount of possible truth as the flying spaghetti monster, or the Spork god.
I don't see why western society should appease Muslim's retarded outrage over a couple of fucking cartoons, by compromising our societies beliefs.
But more or less back on topic, the students should shut up and get real, we live in fucking America. That is whats giving you the right to protest, enjoy it, love it. Except the pros and cons of freedom. That means letting trivial shit like a bad cartoon just kind of float on by without really saying much, because its within my right like anyone else to make a shitty cartoon. If your that pissed about it, make your own dumb ass cartoon saying how Jews are stupid, or Americans are fat, see if we care that much.
Edit: Image summary.
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On September 17 2009 13:48 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
I honestly don't think I have anything to add or say if you can't see the difference between a tasteless joke about religion and a cartoon of them blasting the U.S. with a batch of nukes.
And if it was published by a small privately owned newspaper representing the view of 1/1000000000 inhabitants and presented in the form of a joke I don't think anyone would make a big deal out of it.
There most probably allready is/was such a cartoon which got published and most probably no one cared about.
I don't disagree with the Profs letter... The problem is, you don't know how serious he is. Chances are high that he was going over the top on behalf.
Btw:
No Baseball-Caps and Cell-Phones is fine.
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I've been reading a little bit more closely at the arguments in this thread and there are several things that I agree on. The freedom of speech is definitely correct and the professor should be able to announce his frustration with the complaint from the student union. Still, I think the way in which the professor did so was completely unwarranted. Yes, many Muslim's overreacted and a lot of what's said in the letter is probably truthful. That does not speak for a majority of the Muslims in the world though, especially American college students. And yes, there is freedom of speech in this country, but I feel that there are social dogmas that are not to be crossed. The reason this thread is split in opinion seems to be about the practicality of the letter versus the morality of the letter.
I'm not religious, I'm actually atheistic and feel that religions have a pretty bad track record in human history. I do acknowledge that religions are very crucial for some people, and an extremely important part of their lifestyle. So a simple thing like a cartoon, although it has innocuous intentions, can be highly offensive. I can completely understand why a group of students would complain; I personally get very pent up about stereotypes against my race and culture, even if they are partly true.
Nazgul pointed out that the professor's letter was maybe meant to ridicule the hypocrisy of the students, but in my eyes the students are in a different category than the Muslims that did burn flags or hate countries. The students are frustrated by stereotypes, and in return the professor smacked them with more horrifyingly insulting and derogatory remarks and so I feel his letter is unjustifiable in this regard. I can't find the protest however, but I don't think a student union from MSU would be expressing hatred towards another country rather than just annoyance. I personally believe the professor's attacks crossed a social dogma, and even though there's freedom of speech, it was totally disrespectful and ignorant.
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United States22883 Posts
I disagree with your assessment, Nazgul. The letter reads like the professor is a huge xenophobe (especially at MSU, which has a sizable Muslim population) and referencing those things is akin to referencing Stalin when talking to an atheist, or speaking about pedophilia to a Christian.
That said, the professor definitely shouldn't be fired and probably shouldn't be reprimanded either. You don't remove people for having differing opinions, especially on a college campus. It's not as if he made those statements during class, it was a private letter.
Also, the no cell phones is fine. Cell phones are horribly disruptive, even on vibrate, and if you allow them at some point someone is going to forget to put them on vibrate and it'll fuck up the class. I've had a professor who did grade reductions if a cell phone went off.
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I had a teacher that (only once) in class started to humm( Like "EEEEEEEEEEEE") and then proceeded to pee with his pants on. But hey, he discovered some new equation or some shit that day...
Anyways before this turns into a(nother?) thread about the drawings i'd like to add that this lettter was in bad taste - just like the drawings and just like the burnings of the danish flag (Even if danes really don't care that much)...
You do however have the right to write it. And you have the right to burn our flag(or protest) - knock yourselves out, but stay away from our embasseys.
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whats wrong with this letter? the examples he uses are pretty accurate, and like he said, this is america, he has a right to protest a protest
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On September 17 2009 13:26 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2009 13:23 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:counsel you dissatisfied, aggressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Moslems to be very aware of this as you proceeded with your infantile “protests.” It does sound ridiculous, without that sentence the letter is not bad at all. But can't it be that by making those over the top statements he is trying to show them how ridiculous it is to judge all of Denmark over some cartoon? Just as how ridiculous it is that he is equaling these students to the deeds of other Muslims. If you do not like the values of the West — see the 1st Amendment — you are free to leave. What's wrong with this? If you are protesting against freedom of speech I seriously urge you not to live in a western country. Everyone is free to stick to their culture and their norms and values, but there's a few things in the western world that are simply not up for discussion. Freedom of speech and press is one of them. people werent protesting freedom of speech at msu. Maybe I wasnt clear in that. They were protesting the drawings as "hate" speech. Kind of like what the KKK does. I dunno if you know about it since you live in Europe but when the KKK comes to towns here (specifically Lansing since we are the Capitol of Michigan) tons of people come out to protest them because of what they say. They dont protest their right to say it. AFAIK the MSU students were not protesting the right to publish the cartoons like a majority of the people in the muslim world(those that were protesting).
people bash christians, jews and jehova witnesses/mormons etc all the time, but we cant bash the muslim religion as part of free speech? lol at that.
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rofl...protesting cartoons
how fucking stupid can you get
imo theres nothing wrong with the letter, it speaks the truth. maybe it was a little aggressive, but its fine. although the student union probably have nothing to do with the atrocities, it doesnt mean hes addressed the wrong people.
i dont see why these people protest shit like cartoons but not murders, beheadings and rape
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On September 17 2009 17:08 JohnColtrane wrote:
rofl...protesting cartoons
how fucking stupid can you get
imo theres nothing wrong with the letter, it speaks the truth. maybe it was a little aggressive, but its fine. although the student union probably have nothing to do with the atrocities, it doesnt mean hes addressed the wrong people.
i dont see why these people protest shit like cartoons but not murders, beheadings and rape
because for these students part of the moslem organization, they are martyrs dieing for their religion. they are doing allah's will and why criticize heroes doing gods will in your eyes? hahahaha
i know thats really bad but
it is kind of odd, why don't these reasonable muslims every fight against the crimes people who claim to be part of their culture/religion/nations commit. i mean especially about the dutch filmmaker, he makes one film decrying violence of the islamic religion and he gets murdered? no muslim spared him any tears(i remember following that)
but whatever, ive come to realize things don't change in the world. the idiots will keep staying idiots, the racists keep being racists and muslims won't ever turn their back on their own no matter how heinous their crimes.
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United States43187 Posts
On September 17 2009 17:25 piratebay wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2009 17:08 JohnColtrane wrote:
rofl...protesting cartoons
how fucking stupid can you get
imo theres nothing wrong with the letter, it speaks the truth. maybe it was a little aggressive, but its fine. although the student union probably have nothing to do with the atrocities, it doesnt mean hes addressed the wrong people.
i dont see why these people protest shit like cartoons but not murders, beheadings and rape because for these students part of the moslem organization, they are martyrs dieing for their religion. they are doing allah's will and why criticize heroes doing gods will in your eyes? hahahaha i know thats really bad but it is kind of odd, why don't these reasonable muslims every fight against the crimes people who claim to be part of their culture/religion/nations commit. i mean especially about the dutch filmmaker, he makes one film decrying violence of the islamic religion and he gets murdered? no muslim spared him any tears(i remember following that) but whatever, ive come to realize things don't change in the world. the idiots will keep staying idiots, the racists keep being racists and muslims won't ever turn their back on their own no matter how heinous their crimes.
Liberal Muslim organisations in the UK are put on tv to condemn violence and read selected antiviolence parts of the Koran every time this happens. Don't generalise them all.
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On September 17 2009 17:26 Kwark wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2009 17:25 piratebay wrote:On September 17 2009 17:08 JohnColtrane wrote:
rofl...protesting cartoons
how fucking stupid can you get
imo theres nothing wrong with the letter, it speaks the truth. maybe it was a little aggressive, but its fine. although the student union probably have nothing to do with the atrocities, it doesnt mean hes addressed the wrong people.
i dont see why these people protest shit like cartoons but not murders, beheadings and rape because for these students part of the moslem organization, they are martyrs dieing for their religion. they are doing allah's will and why criticize heroes doing gods will in your eyes? hahahaha i know thats really bad but it is kind of odd, why don't these reasonable muslims every fight against the crimes people who claim to be part of their culture/religion/nations commit. i mean especially about the dutch filmmaker, he makes one film decrying violence of the islamic religion and he gets murdered? no muslim spared him any tears(i remember following that) but whatever, ive come to realize things don't change in the world. the idiots will keep staying idiots, the racists keep being racists and muslims won't ever turn their back on their own no matter how heinous their crimes. Liberal Muslim organisations in the UK are put on tv to condemn violence and read selected antiviolence parts of the Koran every time this happens. Don't generalise them all.
they are few and far inbetween. more times than not, its more along the lines of the lockerbie bombing prisoner going home to a hero's welcome.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://forthardknox.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/cartoon-muslim-danishi.jpg)
