EPT2009-2010 football (soccer) thread - Page 50
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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TonyL2
England1953 Posts
I would have to say I think England will get further than Italy this time round, (although they more than likely won't in reality) | ||
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Not_A_Notion
Ireland441 Posts
On November 20 2009 22:27 SuperArc wrote: This is a great example of karma! It would be, if he had dived, or if the Georgia results weren't expunged from the record as per qualification rules That game didn't count for anything, Ireland would have had 15 points but would still have made the playoffs at the expense of an unlucky(ha ha had to throw the cat amongst the pigeons) Norway/Scotland who cancelled each other out. I wouldn't have been pissed off at Henry for winning a dodgy penalty(but not out and out diving, which has only done a handful of times at most), in fact Anelka could've been given one 4 minutes before hand, it would have been iffy, just the manner of the specific goal that was scored was galling, nothing more. EDIT* But you can't change these things anyway, nobody has seriously suggested you could here, more of an "imagine if they did" discussion, so the video post isn't really acting as a counter-point to anyone else's post EDIT 2* Oh God it was Roy Keane who referenced that video, the dirtiest b*stard to ever put on a Man Utd or Irish jersey who ended alfe inge hallands career? Delightful, as if I hadn't despised the cheating bollocks enough already | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On November 20 2009 22:48 TonyL2 wrote: Forgetting all this about who is lucky or what not I would have to say I think England will get further than Italy this time round, (although they more than likely won't in reality) Indeed, with an italian at the helm (the almighty Capello) they might go far.  That is another aspect of football where Italy has always been superior to Spain and England; the coaching. | ||
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SF-Fork
Russian Federation1401 Posts
On November 20 2009 22:55 Holgerius wrote: Indeed, with an italian at the helm (the almighty Capello) they might go far. That is another aspect of football where Italy has always been superior to Spain and England; the coaching. Haha I remember when I was playing U14 football in the United States we had an Italian coach under the name o Paolo who barely spoke any english, but he tought us how to dive very well. I also have some pretty dirty goalkeeper tricks in my arsenal up to this day mainly thanks to his advices | ||
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Not_A_Notion
Ireland441 Posts
On November 20 2009 23:02 SF-Fork wrote: Haha I remember when I was playing U14 football in the United States we had an Italian coach under the name o Paolo who barely spoke any english, but he tought us how to dive very well. I also have some pretty dirty goalkeeper tricks in my arsenal up to this day mainly thanks to his advices They are pretty good at fixing leagues too to their credit XD JK (after all our manager is Italian) | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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Not_A_Notion
Ireland441 Posts
On November 20 2009 23:08 Holgerius wrote: There's a lot of dirty shit in the italian football history, no denying that. You're right though, they do have the pedigree with managers, that would be hard to deny also. English managers are capable of their own hijinks too, though the panorama report was a bit of a let down. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28736 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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TheMusiC
United States1054 Posts
 but you capping every argument by saying "italy is better than you, end of story" doesn't help either haha ^^ | ||
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TheMusiC
United States1054 Posts
just a really really bad situation for him. | ||
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white_box921
United Kingdom967 Posts
Penalty shoot-out no. England - 6 - 1w (last win was 96, by far the longest) Italy - 6 - 2w Germany - 3 - 3w Holland - 5 - 1w Portugal - 2 -2w France - 4 - 2w Spain - 4 - 2w (Brazil - 2 -2w, but wc only, didn't bother to check copa america) Obviously, we might want to shorten the timeframe, since there is no one that played in 90 will possibly be playing today, and history should have no bearing on current players. So, if I change it to start from 98 (some players still play, although they might not be starter at that time i.e. Henry) then things changes to; England - 3 -0w Spain - 3 - 2w Italy - 4 -2w Germany 1 - 1w Portugal - 2 -2w (yes.. we know who they win it against, maybe we shouldn't count it) France - 2 - 1w It seem weird that Luck would be playing such a big part, there surely is a lot of skill even in a shoot-out, as demonstrated by the Spain youtube clip that keepers can be a matchwinner. Although I don't agree there is a thing call defensive and play to draw, if there is then it ain't very obvious apart from Brazil. I personally would consider Germany to be very defensive and Spain an open team. There is the argument that it takes two side to get a draw, but it is a bit hard to quantify. None of the team that won since 90 have not participated in penalty shoot-out apart from Brazil02, France00 and the all mighty Greece. Teams and coaches must know that penalty is part of the tournament and you most probably need to win a shoot-out in order to capture the big prize. And I can immediately remember carragher sent on just for the one kick (sorry, keep bring this up). The more interesting point is that the majority of the penalty shoot-out is taken between the teams mentioned (those we consider top teams) and not against someone else, or two team not on the list. I can put argentina on the list to further demonstrate my point (2 - 1 eng, 1 ger). This is interesting, because you most likely will win against lesser nations, maybe extra time, but still a win. So you are more likely to know the opposite shooter, for example, you would have seen Lampard and Gerrard taking penalty for their club and got tonnes of clip to study, so afterall, a regular penalty taker may not be so ideal after all. Considering you will get studied, and keeper at world club level are generally much better (right now, the likes of Buffon, Casilas, VDS, I actually miss Ricardo, strangely enough), maybe you want some people that is not a regular taker. There is also the burden of a regular taker, where you are expected to score. If I have time, I will take a look at the % of penalty shoot-out when big nations clash. I am sure there is some sort of better explanation to all this than luck. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On November 21 2009 01:47 TheMusiC wrote: your fanboyism for italy is perhaps on the same level as his defense but you capping every argument by saying "italy is better than you, end of story" doesn't help either haha ^^ The thing is, I have absolutely no problem with stepping out of my subjectiveness and give credit where credit's due. I don't blame losses on being ''unlucky'' and I don't shy away from admitting that someone else it better than the subject of my fanboyism when it's deserved. I have actual facts to back up the claim that Italy is greater than both Spain, Netherlands and England, not just hypothetical mumbo jumbo without regard for facts, and talk about how luck is the primal factor in football. I am not the one talking through my hat. Number of final appearances in WC's and EC's by Italy: 8 (they have been very consistent reaching finals in the 30's, (no tourneys played in the 40's) 60's, 70's, 80's 90's, 00's (wtf?)). Number of final appearances by Netherlands, Spain and England together: 7. | ||
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underscore
252 Posts
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ilj.psa
Peru3081 Posts
On November 20 2009 22:22 Nitro68 wrote: And the video : lol | ||
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ilj.psa
Peru3081 Posts
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1863/world-cup-2010/2009/11/20/1637105/robbie-keane-ireland-thanks-thierry-henry-and-agrees-with Henry in favor of a replay, it would be the fair thing to do for both teams. i didn't expect this , it just makes me have more respect towards him. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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ilj.psa
Peru3081 Posts
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