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Honestly most of these campaigns feel so much harder than WH2's Vortex campaign... I did Kislev (Katarin) and Deamon of Chaos Undivided and both were hella hard.
+ Show Spoiler [Kislev's Perspective] +As Kislev when you hit 600 supporters the game auto-confederates you with the other faction by force, and this causes honestly so much internal turmoil that it's almost unreal. You go from a ~4-6K income per turn to BLEEDING 6K per turn.
Kostaltyn somehow conquered half of Norsca, but not complete provinces, but instead 1-2 settlements per province. It looked like swiss cheese. Furthermore the hero himself was half-way sailed to Scarbrand's part of the Chaos Wastes. I had to disband so many armies, heroes and witches and completely give up on Norsca, focusing instead on a United Kislev front.
But that's when the fun starts and ALL 5 DEMON ARMIES (Slaanesh, Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, Undivided) and what's left of Norscans (lol) start giving you their undivided attention, both internally from the damn rifts, and externally with army after army after ARMY pouring in through every crevace... you can literally feel being the Bulwark of the Old World (as Katarin so proudly calls her nation) every 30 turns. You can forget about expanding or conquering anything past that point. You'll have 5-6 armies on 24/7 demon clean-up duty.
Demons of Chaos on the other hand + Show Spoiler [Chaos Undivided] + You get your shit kicked in from the very start by the Ordertide and player bias. You'll be hard-pressed to keep your original province in 1 piece, let alone expand to the others with the constant 20-stacks from the Empire, Wood Elves, Kostaltyn, fucking SKAVEN of all things, and the odd random demon lord that decided to make you his punching bag that day (usually Khorne), Dwarves.
On top of it all, Yuri is just such a mediocre lord, a jack of all trades but a master of none. Which hurts him a lot, actually. He'll never be able to become a 1-army wrecking ball like Skarbrand, never a quick hero/lord assassin like N'kari, never as good of a spellcaster as Kairos and never as morbidly obese (tanky) as Kugath, nor will he ever get the actually amazing plagues. Plus, focusing on all 4 demon factions I feel is a noob honeytrap. Go with Khorne/Tzeentch for results, later add Slaanesh (maybe?) for flanking and whatever Nurgle is good for at the very end...
Also there is absolutely 0 reson to NOT dedicate yourself to Chaos Undivided later. You don't miss out on any units.
And last, but definitely not least. Pray to whatever God you believe in the Ogres won't put you on top of their Shit List for the day. Both of them are extremely annoying and deadly. In my Katarin campaign Skraag demolished 80% of the Empire and started to snip at my heels from the bottom, luckily I already had all 4 demon princes souls and just ended it before I ragequit.
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I played some ogres (restarted once at around 40 turns, cause i didn’t understand how they work) and i’m now in the second rift… So far my feelings about the game are really well… «mixed» would be a positive spin, compared to WH2 this game is a pure downgrade in basically all aspects.
Some things that come immediatly to my mind:
The AI behaviour when it comes to diplomacy is downright ridiculous…
As Ogres you start with basically having to kill off a minor dwarf and skaven faction, after that all your neighbours are empire including reikland itself.
After i killed off the skaven and dwarfs (like 4-5 turns) the first neighbour declares war on me. So i kill him, then the next 2 empire factions declare war, so i kill them. Then the next 2 empire factions declare war on me, so i kill them. All empire factions somewhat in my neighbourhood are now extinct whiteout me starting a single offensive war.
During all this some random Chaos factions pretty far away also declares war on me because whatever. For some reason the nearby woodelves didn’t declare (yet) while they immediatly did in my first campaign.
I didn’t even want to warmonger/map paint that bad but the game just forces it on you. I tought Ogres are supposed to be kinda diplomatic (at least optionally)?
The campaign mechanic, in my opinion, is the worst thing that has ever been done to a Total War game (or probably any big 3x game). It’s not that it’s hard to deal with, it’s just tedious, boring and annoying. On top of it the AI is also too stupid to deal with it, so the world basically turns into the chaos wastes (attrition everywhere) whiteout chaos actually winning any battles or doing anything… The AI is just too dumb to close portals.
Every minor settlement now potentially being a siege is also such a stupid decision, i have no clue who taught this would be a good idea. It would be allright if auto resolve wouldn’t be dumber than the average chimp and the Pathfinding/Unit AI in general wouldn’t be as absurdely bad as it is.
On the bright side:
Performance/Loading times are better for me than in WH2.
All else: Back to WH2 and waiting for mortal empires to give it another shot.
Edit: This sounds harsher than it is, the game is decent but some stuff is just so buggy/broken... Imho the move is to wait 6 months and then reevaluate.
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On February 17 2022 07:02 WombaT wrote:
Never got round to trying a Total War game, would this be a decent one to jump in at? Looks pretty cool anyway and I do love the setting
Do you really like warhammer? if not, this probably wont feel satisfying. the base game is functional and all that, but CA has a lot of goodwill with us (the community) in that people will tolerate some stuff and buy all the DLC to make it an actually great game down the line.
i finished my first campaign on 3 earlier today and was really happy to finally unlock belakor but god damn...everything is pretty much dead now, i have him but dont have any interesting stuff to do with him anymore. not giving him the ability to start a campaign was a troublesome decision by CA, no doubt.
The AI is clunky at times and the tower pop ups are not fitting for this game in my eyes. i didnt find any of the performance issues people report on the forums (with the exception of the prologue where everytime a tzeentch cultist showed up, his movment would be a slide show fest) and i found the game fun. but im really missing immortal empires as im not sure i want to go through another one of these restricted campagins again, despite having done a ton of them on the vortex map.
Also believe that the prologue did a better job at being a cool narrative than the actual campaign. Me being rushed everywhere almost every turn and having my main LL locked rifting or removing rift traits for most of the game also didnt help me liking the campaign much. but i still liked the idea of the rifts and RoC, just not the relentless approach you need regarding it to actually have a shot at winning, as the AI will go aggressively towards the souls and almost always get them, despite taking terrible armies to the realms.
I'd say once more that the game is fun and worth it for people that like WH and/or have liked the 2 previous games, but dont expect major changes from what was the previous installment.
Ah and also relevant and my main complaint about these games is that we buy the game and a ton of dlc to bring the WH world to life, but then i barely see my units in battle. i think in wh3 battles go even faster which, for me, is a terrible move as well. what's the point of playing race x instead of y if during the battle im mostly zoomed out, cycling ctrl groups, casting stuff and repositioning everyone to the point i dont even know most of the unit's in battle animations? this is not like SC where we value control over spectacle, TW WH is supposed to get a lot of value from the spectacle but at least this player is completely missing out on that part.
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On February 22 2022 20:25 Velr wrote:
I played some ogres (restarted once at around 40 turns, cause i didn’t understand how they work) and i’m now in the second rift… So far my feelings about the game are really well… «mixed» would be a positive spin, compared to WH2 this game is a pure downgrade in basically all aspects.
Some things that come immediatly to my mind:
The AI behaviour when it comes to diplomacy is downright ridiculous…
As Ogres you start with basically having to kill off a minor dwarf and skaven faction, after that all your neighbours are empire including reikland itself.
After i killed off the skaven and dwarfs (like 4-5 turns) the first neighbour declares war on me. So i kill him, then the next 2 empire factions declare war, so i kill them. Then the next 2 empire factions declare war on me, so i kill them. All empire factions somewhat in my neighbourhood are now extinct whiteout me starting a single offensive war.
During all this some random Chaos factions pretty far away also declares war on me because whatever. For some reason the nearby woodelves didn’t declare (yet) while they immediatly did in my first campaign.
I didn’t even want to warmonger/map paint that bad but the game just forces it on you. I tought Ogres are supposed to be kinda diplomatic (at least optionally)?
The campaign mechanic, in my opinion, is the worst thing that has ever been done to a Total War game (or probably any big 3x game). It’s not that it’s hard to deal with, it’s just tedious, boring and annoying. On top of it the AI is also too stupid to deal with it, so the world basically turns into the chaos wastes (attrition everywhere) whiteout chaos actually winning any battles or doing anything… The AI is just too dumb to close portals.
Every minor settlement now potentially being a siege is also such a stupid decision, i have no clue who taught this would be a good idea. It would be allright if auto resolve wouldn’t be dumber than the average chimp and the Pathfinding/Unit AI in general wouldn’t be as absurdely bad as it is.
On the bright side:
Performance/Loading times are better for me than in WH2.
All else: Back to WH2 and waiting for mortal empires to give it another shot.
Edit: This sounds harsher than it is, the game is decent but some stuff is just so buggy/broken... Imho the move is to wait 6 months and then reevaluate.
@Diplomacy: That's exactly how it plays out in WH2 though, except in wh2 the first two empire provinces would have invited the second 2 and the third 2 within the first 5 turns. Honestly I feel like diplomacy is one of the areas the game is vastly improved. The UI is so much better and overall it feels to me like I get less arbitrary war declarations.
@settlement battles: Imo much better than wh2, but on the flipside I agree that there are too many and I definitely share your anger for pathfinding. AR depends on campaign difficulty, so it's basically useless unless you play Normal. Overall the problem is imo mainly how scared the AI plays because I'm killing roughly as many armies as I kill settlements, but I kill almost all of these armies in settlements.
Like minor settlements are cool overall and I mostly enjoy them even with the wonky pathing, but it's annoying to play almost only minor settlement battles and it really holds some factions back. Also some towers are insanely broken (Nurgle) and the AI cheats supplies out of thin air and is bugged to ignore tower cooldowns.
In general I agree that it's one step forwards two steps back atm though. To make matters worse a lot of the bad design is stuff the dlc team fixed for wh2 already, so it's kinda mindboggling that we get it in wh3 again. Once the larger bugs are fixed and the workshop is online this will probably one-up wh2 for me though.
Worth mentioning especially if you play Slaanesh that there are quite a few bugs that really make stuff less viable or downright bad to get. Like chariots don't get charge bonus and one of the techs is bugged to remove rewards instead of adding to an event.
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I have a big issue in combat, sometimes your unit will simply stop chasing an enemy after a bit even when you direct them.
My toads/furies literally wont chase a fleeing unit for more than 5meters. It's really annoying.
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On March 02 2022 02:41 Erasme wrote:
I have a big issue in combat, sometimes your unit will simply stop chasing an enemy after a bit even when you direct them.
My toads/furies literally wont chase a fleeing unit for more than 5meters. It's really annoying.
I noticed that your units start as a default on guard mode (the little shield at the bottom). I think that on TW2 and 1 they started with guard mode off. It's a very strange thing to change
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On March 02 2022 04:18 Sbrubbles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2022 02:41 Erasme wrote:
I have a big issue in combat, sometimes your unit will simply stop chasing an enemy after a bit even when you direct them.
My toads/furies literally wont chase a fleeing unit for more than 5meters. It's really annoying. I noticed that your units start as a default on guard mode (the little shield at the bottom). I think that on TW2 and 1 they started with guard mode off. It's a very strange thing to change
I'm very sure that this happened in previous TW games, even with guard mode off. It's worse in siege battles with the narrow areas. Units will just stop and get themselves shot to pieces by enemy ranged units (or siege towers) the moment you take your eyes off them. I think it has to do with routers or routers getting in their way even if you ask them to attack some other unit. They will pause to attack the routers then completely forget their previous order.
Question about settlement battles. Did they remove walls for minor settlement battles? I think that was the best change they made for Total War: Three Kingdoms. They were technically still "siege" battles on settlement maps but it removed a lot of tedium from the game. The supply system also reduced the amount of Benny Hill whack-a-mole AI armies marching around your territory.
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In tw2 i had the opposite "issue" actually, my units would chase someone as long as they didn't get bogged down into another unit.
I'll try tonight with the guard mode off to see if that was it.
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Can definitely confirm that units stop chasing even without guard mode and that it's a bug that was present in wh2 already since it cost me a few close battles vs HEs where my melee units didn't feel like sticking to the routing archers and as a result got shot to bits once these rallied.
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On March 03 2022 04:34 Archeon wrote:
Can definitely confirm that units stop chasing even without guard mode and that it's a bug that was present in wh2 already since it cost me a few close battles vs HEs where my melee units didn't feel like sticking to the routing archers and as a result got shot to bits once these rallied.
The worst are Skaven. Happened to me so many times in WH2. Your unit sneezes at them. They rout. They stop routing 5 seconds later. Your unit stops chasing (even with guard mode off). They start shooting. Your unit just stands there dying.
It's worst in siege battles with the narrow pathways. Even when I'm ordering my units to attack other enemy units in the distance, any router in the way will cause my units to engage the fleeing enemy units. Once they stop fighting the fleeing units, they forget their previous order and will just stand there. I have to constantly keep clicking the enemy unit in the distance until they actually make it there.
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With warhammer 3 out now, im looking to pick up warhammer 2 on the cheap. I've seen theres about 7 medium/big DLCs for that, which ones are required, and which ones would you recommended?
I really enjoyed warhammer 1, which I picked up as package dfeal for 50€with all the DLCs, definitely looking for something similar for the second part. I have no issue waiting for a bit longer if it means I don't have to buy a stolen key.
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Tomb Kings & Vampire Coast are an absolute must in my opinion.
Warden & Paunch, Queen & Crone, Prophet & Warlock (SKAVEN love!) are high value as well.
Twisted & Twilight, Shadow & Blade, Hunter & Beast, Silence & Fury (if only for Beastmen rework), are just OK, but fill up rosters for various factions so if you want all the cool toys, get them.
The others I don't even know what they do (like Steps of Isha) despite owning these.
The single lord ones like Lokhir or Alith Anar, are also just OK, so pick them up for your favourite faction(s).
Also get the very base copy of Warhammer 1 if you can for cheap, so you can play Mortal Empires in Warhammer 2. No need for any WH1 DLCs I think (or maybe just Norsca?) and you'll have access to the very best content in the 3 games so far - Mortal Empires campaign in Warhammer 2. It combines both the Old World from WH1 and Lustria & the other 3 continents from game 2, into 1 HUGE domination campaign, which is just *chef's kiss*
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Yeah Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast for sure as they add entire new factions, everything else is just expanding what exists. Nice is you like to play more but certainly skippable if you don't want to spend a lot.
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thanks for the precise answers to both of you, I'll get the basegame for TWW2 first, and when that loses the replayability I'll pick up on the DLCs you recommended. One more question: Vortex campaign, yay or nay?
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I did it once for my first campaign and then played mortal empires for the rest of my campaigns.
I find Total War DLCs to be pricier and I haven't seen a big bundle yet at a price I want. My recommendation is to see what you want to play next and then check if you want to buy the DLCs for that faction. I usually plan my campaigns way in advance and then pick up the DLCs during big Steam sales. So far, I think the only DLCs I've picked up are Wood Elves for WH1 and Tomb Kings for WH2.
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I have seen him release videos daily despite this. What is his problem with the game?
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Lots of bugs, not very fun campaign mechanics that you can't ignore, AI dodges more than it fights, AR probably being the most broken I've ever seen and a bunch of factions feel undercooked and have glaring issues. Also apparently lots of feedback was provided and apparently ignored.
The biggest problem though is likely that he was probably hyped for the game and now feels that it didn't deliver. WH3 is in a lot of ways one step forwards two steps back, be it tech, skill trees, difficulty scaling, or some of the campaign mechanics.
Like it's cool that I now can see what influences the AI's decisions how much, but if the AI still behaves like an angry one year old that says no to almost everything that doesn't help much. The new siege battles are great, but pathing regularly breaks in them and due to the AI playing as aggressive as a paranoid hamster whenever one of my armies is in the vicinity it's the only thing I ever play. Mind you the AI still plays hyper aggressive if my armies aren't close, they regularly cross two continents to then raid my country for eternity. Tech and skill trees are back to deciding which random thing doesn't make a difference.
A lot of faction mechanics really would have needed some work. With Slaanesh I can take over human factions if I build influence over time, but not playable LLs, so basically nothing after turn 100 when the ogres destroyed the empire and the minor factions all got confederated by the LLs. With DP I am through the devotion tree by turn 75, by when I don't get battle rewards outside of experience anymore. Also the demon prince gets beaten the crap out of by most of his Lords. Nurgle is basically helpless against missiles and single entities. Neither Tzeentch nor Slaanesh get a decent option to replenish troops.
Long story short the game could have really used 2 months QA, it feels quite often as if the devs didn't really plan that people play more than the first 70 turns.
On March 10 2022 21:53 Branch.AUT wrote:
thanks for the precise answers to both of you, I'll get the basegame for TWW2 first, and when that loses the replayability I'll pick up on the DLCs you recommended. One more question: Vortex campaign, yay or nay?
Vortex campaign is okayish but mainly because you can ignore it if you want, if the AI would win you get an event to stop them. I enjoy the lore tidbits thrown in, but the events can be a pest if you aren't prepared before pressing the ritual button. I generally play almost entirely ME, but depending on your rig Vortex has the shorter turn timers and isn't that different if you are playing mostly in the west. Like it's a big difference for Sartosa, Repanse and Tomb kings, for Malekith not so much.
On DLCs generally give the factions a go and buy the faction dlcs of the factions you like. Their rework dlcs are worth getting, like the wood elfs, beastmen and orcs all massively profit from their respective wh2 dlcs and if you didn't get WE and BM in WH1 I'd only get them in WH2.
Their later dlcs tend to be more polished. Noteworthy though that in shadow and blade and the prophet and the warlock are probably not worth it if you don't plan on playing Skaven. At least in both the non-skaven LLs and their mechanics kinda suck. Prophet and Warlock pretty much transformed how Skaven plays and Ikkit gets commonly voted as one of the must fun (also most op), so if you are interested in Skaven that's definitely one to get.
Curse of the vampire coast is okay, I just don't really like the roster. But if you enjoy defensive shooting army you might differ, the units are definitely fun design wise and the campaign mechanics are decent, I just don't enjoy t1 shooting zombies being my mainstay until I spam SEs. I always liked TKs though.
I think Queen & Crone adds strong units, but mediocre campaign mechanics. Hunter and Beast is probably the only one I'd rate as skip-worthy, there is a lot of stuff there that looks really cool on paper but plays out very poorly.
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Creative Assembly finally released a "roadmap" (if you can even call it that) for future WH3 content... and a lot of people (including me) are NOT amused, after what they've shown and after all that radio silence from them.
+ Show Spoiler +
+ Show Spoiler +
To those new to the series, WH3 is to tell you the truth pretty barebones and WH2 received a lot more support early on, post-release. They really released this 6 months or even a year too early even after the delay(s). Shame on CA.
I'm going back to WH2 Mortal Empires with mods 
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On April 30 2022 07:35 Latham wrote:Creative Assembly finally released a "roadmap" (if you can even call it that) for future WH3 content... and a lot of people (including me) are NOT amused, after what they've shown and after all that radio silence from them. + Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +To those new to the series, WH3 is to tell you the truth pretty barebones and WH2 received a lot more support early on, post-release. They really released this 6 months or even a year too early even after the delay(s). Shame on CA. I'm going back to WH2 Mortal Empires with mods
Me being new to CA's shenenigans with WH (was not a TW player before) made me believe the past was just some unlucky circumstances and minor things (or so I thought). But i've learned my lesson now after WH3, that is for sure.
The amount of terrible game design decisions, clueless behavior from the (dev?) teams since February last year and their inability to use their CM's to help them manage their shortcomings with the community should have been warning enough, but I was a fool and bought the game, only to be terribly disapointed by its state.
Specially since 2 weeks after release stores around here saw the issues and dropped the price by some 20€....if it wasn't a 60 game the pain would have been lessened, but for a full price AAA game its really a skip.
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EPT
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