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On February 13 2021 18:57 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2021 18:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 13 2021 09:36 andrewlt wrote:On February 12 2021 21:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 12 2021 11:20 andrewlt wrote:On February 11 2021 18:08 Biff The Understudy wrote:
For me diplomacy is one of the things really dragging that game down. It's completely nonsensical. You get +120 diplomatic relation to factions that keep refusing a trade agreement or even a non aggro pact.
The worst thing is confederation. I really hate dwarves and high elves snowballing into mega superpower just because they randomly confederate a faction every 10 turns.
I think there should be much more vassals and much less confederations. A coalition of united dwarven holds would be fun and make sense lorewise. Karaz a Karak owning half the map doesn't. I may have already mentioned this in the other thread but I started a normal game for shits and giggles the last time I played WH2. Karl Franz got himself eliminated and then respawned during a rebellion in some random minor settlement. From that one settlement, he managed to go from 1 settlement to 80-100 settlements in the space of maybe just 20-30 turns by repeated confederation. I don't think it's possible for players to do this in diplomacy. The game has way too many adjustments to make AI factions like each other more and hate the player in absurd lore breaking ways. Tyrion shouldn't be more willing to have an alliance with Malekith than having a trade agreement with Teclis just because I so happen to be playing Teclis. I tried a game with the no confederation mod playing Karak Kadrin a while back, it was really fun. I think it adds a lot of complexity to the game. It's just, the vassal system could be refined and strengthened. That would reflect the medieval feel of WHFB a lot imo. Then again, Kadrin's slayers are totally and utterly broken, which kind of ruined the experience. Also the skaven tended to benefit a bit too much from the change of rules. Those f...ers are an absolute chore to fight. Everything about them is bs. I hope that WH3 is a bit less arcady and a bit more subtle on the campaign map. I know it's not civilization but you should feel that a faction did something to "deserve" suddenly doubling in size. The Skaven being the second faction in many DLC and getting better things than the top billed faction is a meme by now. I think they are complete bs and extremely frustrating to fight against which is exactly what they are supposed to be. In that sense CA nailed them. The normal reaction to a skaven battle should be "Oh COME ON" and that happens literally every time. I normally enjoy fighting most battles manually but when fighting Skaven is autoresolve every chance I get exactly because of that "oh come on" feeling. The rats poping out of the ground everywhere and nukes flying around is what makes skaven so unique in Fantasy.
I know right. Also losing half your Phoenix Gard after 6 seconds because one of their 15 OP artillery / range units or one of their BS spell launched from across the map happens to make contact is quintessentially skaven.
In my TT unit cap high elves campaign, I made a few base archers / spearmen stacks to deal with skaven. That way, when a unit gets nuked for totally unpreventable and unforseable reasons, I am not too sad. It's really not worth investing in Sisters of Averlorn against those guys.
One thing that could really have been done better about both skaven and greenskins is their unreliability / unpredictability though. That was their whole point on tabletops and it was hilarious. Fanatics were devastating, but they moved randomly. I remember battles where my fanatics killed my own general, a unit of black orcs and created a mass rout in my own army without making contact with the enemy. I saw skaven artillery wiping half of their own army before the first engagement, and I lost all my artillery pieces to catastrophic malfunctions by round 3 more than once.
That aspect is absent of the game, and I really regret it. Yup it's random, but do those degenerate rats look like german ingeniers to you?
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On February 13 2021 18:57 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2021 18:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 13 2021 09:36 andrewlt wrote:On February 12 2021 21:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 12 2021 11:20 andrewlt wrote:On February 11 2021 18:08 Biff The Understudy wrote:
For me diplomacy is one of the things really dragging that game down. It's completely nonsensical. You get +120 diplomatic relation to factions that keep refusing a trade agreement or even a non aggro pact.
The worst thing is confederation. I really hate dwarves and high elves snowballing into mega superpower just because they randomly confederate a faction every 10 turns.
I think there should be much more vassals and much less confederations. A coalition of united dwarven holds would be fun and make sense lorewise. Karaz a Karak owning half the map doesn't. I may have already mentioned this in the other thread but I started a normal game for shits and giggles the last time I played WH2. Karl Franz got himself eliminated and then respawned during a rebellion in some random minor settlement. From that one settlement, he managed to go from 1 settlement to 80-100 settlements in the space of maybe just 20-30 turns by repeated confederation. I don't think it's possible for players to do this in diplomacy. The game has way too many adjustments to make AI factions like each other more and hate the player in absurd lore breaking ways. Tyrion shouldn't be more willing to have an alliance with Malekith than having a trade agreement with Teclis just because I so happen to be playing Teclis. I tried a game with the no confederation mod playing Karak Kadrin a while back, it was really fun. I think it adds a lot of complexity to the game. It's just, the vassal system could be refined and strengthened. That would reflect the medieval feel of WHFB a lot imo. Then again, Kadrin's slayers are totally and utterly broken, which kind of ruined the experience. Also the skaven tended to benefit a bit too much from the change of rules. Those f...ers are an absolute chore to fight. Everything about them is bs. I hope that WH3 is a bit less arcady and a bit more subtle on the campaign map. I know it's not civilization but you should feel that a faction did something to "deserve" suddenly doubling in size. The Skaven being the second faction in many DLC and getting better things than the top billed faction is a meme by now. I think they are complete bs and extremely frustrating to fight against which is exactly what they are supposed to be. In that sense CA nailed them. The normal reaction to a skaven battle should be "Oh COME ON" and that happens literally every time. I normally enjoy fighting most battles manually but when fighting Skaven is autoresolve every chance I get exactly because of that "oh come on" feeling. The rats poping out of the ground everywhere and nukes flying around is what makes skaven so unique in Fantasy.
Game is missing the "oh come on" from the skaven side when all the fancy tech blows itself and half the army up at the start of the battle. They included all the pros but none of the cons of skaven bullshit from the TT.
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On February 13 2021 20:03 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2021 18:57 Gorsameth wrote:On February 13 2021 18:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 13 2021 09:36 andrewlt wrote:On February 12 2021 21:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 12 2021 11:20 andrewlt wrote:On February 11 2021 18:08 Biff The Understudy wrote:
For me diplomacy is one of the things really dragging that game down. It's completely nonsensical. You get +120 diplomatic relation to factions that keep refusing a trade agreement or even a non aggro pact.
The worst thing is confederation. I really hate dwarves and high elves snowballing into mega superpower just because they randomly confederate a faction every 10 turns.
I think there should be much more vassals and much less confederations. A coalition of united dwarven holds would be fun and make sense lorewise. Karaz a Karak owning half the map doesn't. I may have already mentioned this in the other thread but I started a normal game for shits and giggles the last time I played WH2. Karl Franz got himself eliminated and then respawned during a rebellion in some random minor settlement. From that one settlement, he managed to go from 1 settlement to 80-100 settlements in the space of maybe just 20-30 turns by repeated confederation. I don't think it's possible for players to do this in diplomacy. The game has way too many adjustments to make AI factions like each other more and hate the player in absurd lore breaking ways. Tyrion shouldn't be more willing to have an alliance with Malekith than having a trade agreement with Teclis just because I so happen to be playing Teclis. I tried a game with the no confederation mod playing Karak Kadrin a while back, it was really fun. I think it adds a lot of complexity to the game. It's just, the vassal system could be refined and strengthened. That would reflect the medieval feel of WHFB a lot imo. Then again, Kadrin's slayers are totally and utterly broken, which kind of ruined the experience. Also the skaven tended to benefit a bit too much from the change of rules. Those f...ers are an absolute chore to fight. Everything about them is bs. I hope that WH3 is a bit less arcady and a bit more subtle on the campaign map. I know it's not civilization but you should feel that a faction did something to "deserve" suddenly doubling in size. The Skaven being the second faction in many DLC and getting better things than the top billed faction is a meme by now. I think they are complete bs and extremely frustrating to fight against which is exactly what they are supposed to be. In that sense CA nailed them. The normal reaction to a skaven battle should be "Oh COME ON" and that happens literally every time. I normally enjoy fighting most battles manually but when fighting Skaven is autoresolve every chance I get exactly because of that "oh come on" feeling. The rats poping out of the ground everywhere and nukes flying around is what makes skaven so unique in Fantasy. Game is missing the "oh come on" from the skaven side when all the fancy tech blows itself and half the army up at the start of the battle. They included all the pros but none of the cons of skaven bullshit from the TT. Yeah but even the later skaven editions turned away from doing that because its not that fun when it happens to you.
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There's also no real animosity for greenskins, when your own troops start fighting each other at the beginning of the battle. Some of the drawbacks are just don't make for fun or interesting experience. Although I'd be all to some random failure chance with Skaven stuff, even in the form of like ranged frenzy, when they start to unload their ammo at the closest enemy target and you can't control them while they do so (should be true for war machines too). This I think would be thematic and would serve as a bit of a balancing factor as skaven missiles and artillery are just way too strong.
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On February 13 2021 20:19 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2021 20:03 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On February 13 2021 18:57 Gorsameth wrote:On February 13 2021 18:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 13 2021 09:36 andrewlt wrote:On February 12 2021 21:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 12 2021 11:20 andrewlt wrote:On February 11 2021 18:08 Biff The Understudy wrote:
For me diplomacy is one of the things really dragging that game down. It's completely nonsensical. You get +120 diplomatic relation to factions that keep refusing a trade agreement or even a non aggro pact.
The worst thing is confederation. I really hate dwarves and high elves snowballing into mega superpower just because they randomly confederate a faction every 10 turns.
I think there should be much more vassals and much less confederations. A coalition of united dwarven holds would be fun and make sense lorewise. Karaz a Karak owning half the map doesn't. I may have already mentioned this in the other thread but I started a normal game for shits and giggles the last time I played WH2. Karl Franz got himself eliminated and then respawned during a rebellion in some random minor settlement. From that one settlement, he managed to go from 1 settlement to 80-100 settlements in the space of maybe just 20-30 turns by repeated confederation. I don't think it's possible for players to do this in diplomacy. The game has way too many adjustments to make AI factions like each other more and hate the player in absurd lore breaking ways. Tyrion shouldn't be more willing to have an alliance with Malekith than having a trade agreement with Teclis just because I so happen to be playing Teclis. I tried a game with the no confederation mod playing Karak Kadrin a while back, it was really fun. I think it adds a lot of complexity to the game. It's just, the vassal system could be refined and strengthened. That would reflect the medieval feel of WHFB a lot imo. Then again, Kadrin's slayers are totally and utterly broken, which kind of ruined the experience. Also the skaven tended to benefit a bit too much from the change of rules. Those f...ers are an absolute chore to fight. Everything about them is bs. I hope that WH3 is a bit less arcady and a bit more subtle on the campaign map. I know it's not civilization but you should feel that a faction did something to "deserve" suddenly doubling in size. The Skaven being the second faction in many DLC and getting better things than the top billed faction is a meme by now. I think they are complete bs and extremely frustrating to fight against which is exactly what they are supposed to be. In that sense CA nailed them. The normal reaction to a skaven battle should be "Oh COME ON" and that happens literally every time. I normally enjoy fighting most battles manually but when fighting Skaven is autoresolve every chance I get exactly because of that "oh come on" feeling. The rats poping out of the ground everywhere and nukes flying around is what makes skaven so unique in Fantasy. Game is missing the "oh come on" from the skaven side when all the fancy tech blows itself and half the army up at the start of the battle. They included all the pros but none of the cons of skaven bullshit from the TT. Yeah but even the later skaven editions turned away from doing that because its not that fun when it happens to you.
You kidding? It's hilarious! All my best warhammer memories involve my armies self destructing and all my wicked plans turn to hilarity because, well, what did you expect goblins to do?
I think the saddest thing about Games Workshop is that from a setting that was 90% dark humour and satire, they slowly slided into some kind of wannabe grandiose, dark setting that actually takes itself quite seriously. Original GW was pure hilarity. Literally nothing was serious about it.
And if you wanted a reliable army because you didn't like losing because trolls are stupid, goblins cowardly and orcs can't stop hitting each others with clubs and behaving like british holigans on a world cup final versus Germany, well, you would play the High Elves. They were pompous asses though.
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On February 13 2021 18:57 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2021 18:34 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 13 2021 09:36 andrewlt wrote:On February 12 2021 21:23 Biff The Understudy wrote:On February 12 2021 11:20 andrewlt wrote:On February 11 2021 18:08 Biff The Understudy wrote:
For me diplomacy is one of the things really dragging that game down. It's completely nonsensical. You get +120 diplomatic relation to factions that keep refusing a trade agreement or even a non aggro pact.
The worst thing is confederation. I really hate dwarves and high elves snowballing into mega superpower just because they randomly confederate a faction every 10 turns.
I think there should be much more vassals and much less confederations. A coalition of united dwarven holds would be fun and make sense lorewise. Karaz a Karak owning half the map doesn't. I may have already mentioned this in the other thread but I started a normal game for shits and giggles the last time I played WH2. Karl Franz got himself eliminated and then respawned during a rebellion in some random minor settlement. From that one settlement, he managed to go from 1 settlement to 80-100 settlements in the space of maybe just 20-30 turns by repeated confederation. I don't think it's possible for players to do this in diplomacy. The game has way too many adjustments to make AI factions like each other more and hate the player in absurd lore breaking ways. Tyrion shouldn't be more willing to have an alliance with Malekith than having a trade agreement with Teclis just because I so happen to be playing Teclis. I tried a game with the no confederation mod playing Karak Kadrin a while back, it was really fun. I think it adds a lot of complexity to the game. It's just, the vassal system could be refined and strengthened. That would reflect the medieval feel of WHFB a lot imo. Then again, Kadrin's slayers are totally and utterly broken, which kind of ruined the experience. Also the skaven tended to benefit a bit too much from the change of rules. Those f...ers are an absolute chore to fight. Everything about them is bs. I hope that WH3 is a bit less arcady and a bit more subtle on the campaign map. I know it's not civilization but you should feel that a faction did something to "deserve" suddenly doubling in size. The Skaven being the second faction in many DLC and getting better things than the top billed faction is a meme by now. I think they are complete bs and extremely frustrating to fight against which is exactly what they are supposed to be. In that sense CA nailed them. The normal reaction to a skaven battle should be "Oh COME ON" and that happens literally every time. I normally enjoy fighting most battles manually but when fighting Skaven is autoresolve every chance I get exactly because of that "oh come on" feeling. The rats poping out of the ground everywhere and nukes flying around is what makes skaven so unique in Fantasy.
Ya, their archetype is usually reserved for the least technologically advanced factions, not the most technologically advanced one. It's a unique faction for sure.
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Bumping this since it releases officially tomorrow (at least for me).
Global times for the release:
![[image loading]](https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/steamcommunity/public/images/clans/39760201/b4106a70b63ccf9e0def22195ddf40cb3d15f424.jpg)
Anyone excited?! A lot of YTbers with early access are saying the game is good, although with a few flaws. But they're confident that it will age like fine wine with DLCs & Immortal Empires being released in the future.
specs needed to run this:
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/1yJHo4S.png)
Who will be your 1st playthrough?
Poll: First PlaythroughOgres (3) 20% Chaos Undivided (Demons) (3) 20% Kislev (2) 13% Slaanesh (2) 13% Khorne (2) 13% Nurgle (2) 13% Cathay (1) 7% Tzeentch (0) 0% 15 total votes Your vote: First Playthrough (Vote): Kislev
(Vote): Cathay
(Vote): Slaanesh
(Vote): Khorne
(Vote): Nurgle
(Vote): Tzeentch
(Vote): Ogres
(Vote): Chaos Undivided (Demons)
Here's a very extensive review by Mandalore
+ Show Spoiler +
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Its going to be glorious.
Going to start of with running a wall of meat at enemies as Ogres, also interested in giving Cathey a go. But mostly eagerly waiting for the insanity of Mortal Empires and hoping that it won't be long until Chaos Dwarves are added.
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Northern Ireland24995 Posts
Never got round to trying a Total War game, would this be a decent one to jump in at? Looks pretty cool anyway and I do love the setting
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On February 17 2022 07:02 WombaT wrote:
Never got round to trying a Total War game, would this be a decent one to jump in at? Looks pretty cool anyway and I do love the setting
From the reviews I've seen warhammer 2 is a better starting point than warhammer 3 is going to be tomorrow. Warhammer 2 is a very polished game when it comes to battles and mostly bug-free and while warhammer 3 brings some major improvements in areas where warhammer 2 was lacking (minor city battles, diplomacy) according to what I've heard the main campaign mechanics need some work and there are still some fairly noticeable bugs.
On the flipside wh3 comes with a tutorial campaign that's supposed to be very good. But considering that warhammer 2 regularly goes on sale, that having wh2 will eventually unlock the larger map for wh3 if you have it and that wh3 still has a lot of room to grow I think getting wh2 on sale is a better plan currently.
Overall as someone who more or less started with wh1 the series is definitely a good starting point for total war though.
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On February 17 2022 07:02 WombaT wrote:
Never got round to trying a Total War game, would this be a decent one to jump in at? Looks pretty cool anyway and I do love the setting
I heard this is going to be on monthly game pass? If you have it, check it out there first. If you like it a lot buy it, but I'd personally wait for Immortal Empires to be put in before giving CA 60$ for this game (if it was my 1st TW: Warhammer game in the trilogy).
Otherwise I agree with Archeon. If you can find the whole TW: Warhammer II (DLCs included) and TW: Warhammer I on sale and for dirt cheap somewhere, I'd wholeheartedly recommend that over Warhammer III at this moment.
Warhammer II has a combined campaign mode from games I & II to play, which is mad fun and has a vast plethora of races to choose from. Humans, Skaven, Elves, Orks, Undead... it has everything.
As it currently stands Warhammer III campaign mode will be a little barebones with very little variety, until they release Immortal Empires a few months in the future that will combine all 3 games' maps into 1 gigantic domination campaign.
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yeah I would probably get Total War: Warhammer 2. Its the more 'complete' game compared to 3 and its not dated.
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Is there any timeframe for Mortal Empires / Old races being added?
I’m kinda hyped for this but none of the factions really appeal to me.
Yes, i’m a dirty rat.
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Hearing the usual initial release buggy-ness though I seem to recall Warhammer 2 being quite stable at release as far as CA games go. I'm waiting for the combined map as well. Gives me time to work on my backlog and give Three Kingdoms one last play through before delving into this one.
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On February 17 2022 23:11 Velr wrote:
Is there any timeframe for Mortal Empires / Old races being added?
I’m kinda hyped for this but none of the factions really appeal to me.
Yes, i’m a dirty rat.
I heard "2 to 3 months" being thrown around on reddit, but that is entirely based off of the time frame of Mortal Empires in Warhammer II. CA has not communicated anything officially just yet.
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Finland931 Posts
On February 17 2022 07:02 WombaT wrote:
Never got round to trying a Total War game, would this be a decent one to jump in at? Looks pretty cool anyway and I do love the setting
After several hours in TWW3, I agree with the above posters in that getting TWW2 cheap is the better choice for now. It's more polished, well-rounded and probably a tad more stable, while still offering boat loads of gameplay. Also if this is your first Total War title out of them all, you don't have to spend 60€ to see if you like the genre or not.
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Yeah warhammer 3 does a lot of stuff well, but it lacks the polish wh2 had at the end. CA worked on WH2 throughout it's life cycle and it really showed, while wh3 now carries a lot of the problems warhammer 2 had at the start. Including an AI that will constantly try to evade you, a bunch of bugs, no mod support yet and a main campaign mechanic that most people perceive as bothersome.
Also AR can't win a battle to save it's life. I shouldn't have to fight 20v6.
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I haven't had much issue with auto resolve in the field but during town fights the defending side gets a way to big bonus to AR for how it actually plays out if you manually fight.
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It's a ton of fun spreading plagues everywhere then walking over the pox ridden defenders
BUT it has such a slow start it's insanely hard at higher diff
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On February 20 2022 19:23 Gorsameth wrote:
I haven't had much issue with auto resolve in the field but during town fights the defending side gets a way to big bonus to AR for how it actually plays out if you manually fight.
Yikes, those are the fights that I want to auto resolve the most because I hate them. From what I searched, it looks like CA made siege battles even more tedious and annoying.
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EPT
