EPT6 factions (4 daemon factions, Kislev and Cathay) and 9 legendary lords in the base game.
The hype is real!
FAQ: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-iii-faq/
Total War: Warhammer III
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
6 factions (4 daemon factions, Kislev and Cathay) and 9 legendary lords in the base game. The hype is real! FAQ: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-iii-faq/ | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
HYPE! | ||
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gfddfgdfgdfgdf
2 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7838 Posts
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Latham
9555 Posts
I'm more interested about "India" and "Japan" in the Warhammer setting... I assume Japan is some sort of Shogunate? Also I wanna see what the hell a "Hobgoblin Khanate" is... what even is a Hobgoblin in the WH world? So far goblins are weak and cowardly and used as fodder by the Orcs, are the Hobgoblins stronger than Orcs? Like WTF... | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
On February 06 2021 02:18 Latham wrote: But if you think about it, it makes sense. TW: 3K was very well received and they'd be foolish not to reuse the assets they created and use the systems/knowledge they gained by making 3 Kingdoms in future games (TW:WH3 & future). Slap some reskins on the archers/spears/cavalry, create a few monsters to go along with the plebs and viola. I'm more interested about "India" and "Japan" in the Warhammer setting... I assume Japan is some sort of Shogunate? Also I wanna see what the hell a "Hobgoblin Khanate" is... what even is a Hobgoblin in the WH world? So far goblins are weak and cowardly and used as fodder by the Orcs, are the Hobgoblins stronger than Orcs? Like WTF... Hobgoblins are used by Chaos Dwarves. Think something between a gobbo and an orc (average human stats and build) dressed in mongol garb  | ||
hexhaven
Finland926 Posts
Been playing Total War since Shogun, and the two Warhammers are in my opinion the peak of the series, so incredibly hyped for this one. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21482 Posts
On February 06 2021 03:39 hexhaven wrote: No they are not. But I can't see them not being in the game, even if it comes later as a DLC faction.So are Chaos Dwarfs confirmed or not? I need my hats! Been playing Total War since Shogun, and the two Warhammers are in my opinion the peak of the series, so incredibly hyped for this one. They have Kislev and Cathay. And the area between those 2 is home to the Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarves. They would have to bend the map into like a moon shape across the chaos wastes to not have those 2 races in the game. And the ME map would make even less sense with a giant hole in it. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10115 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7838 Posts
I reaaaaally hope they address doomstacks. I play with the tabletop caps mod, because I just don't see the interest in the 19 mammoth playstyle. That's just awful. | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
I still think the best way to address doomstacks is simply to introduce harder counters to ranged and monsters. Apparently light cav in 3k have 50% missile resistance and archers are squishy. In TWW a lot of the archers can manfight the light cav even if the latter doesn't get turned into a needle cushion first. Monsters suffer from the same problem where they are basically uncountered by slot, if f.e. t4+ halberds could handily beat even heavy monsters in a manfight building monostacks would be a lot more dangerous. But in tww the star dragon can roast 3-4 stacks of phoenix guards before it goes down, so since the triangular balancing isn't really working mass stacks of the unit types that are powerful are simply the way to go and that's generally arty/archers/monsters. That being said especially archers need a general nerf, they are way too strong for how much better they are on the map and unlike monsters they are cheap and don't have a reason to be that strong. Especially the fact that high tier units are barely any better at dealing with low tier archers than low tier units is pretty absurd and makes these peasant or elven archer doomstacks so tedious to deal with. On February 06 2021 03:57 Gorsameth wrote: No they are not. But I can't see them not being in the game, even if it comes later as a DLC faction. They have Kislev and Cathay. And the area between those 2 is home to the Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarves. They would have to bend the map into like a moon shape across the chaos wastes to not have those 2 races in the game. And the ME map would make even less sense with a giant hole in it. They still have the possibility to treat it like Araby and fill their spot on the map with other factions. But considering that everyone expected those two and that Araby has some thematic problems I don't really expect that to happen. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
On February 06 2021 03:39 hexhaven wrote: So are Chaos Dwarfs confirmed or not? I need my hats! I'm sorry to burst your bubble but I think they might go with the more modern approach of the Legion of Azgorh which does not have the same aesthetic (sadly). Sure, you do get some of the old vibe in the sorcerers/daemonsmiths ![[image loading]](https://ageofsigmar.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/thumb/3/3c/Daemonsmith.jpg/465px-Daemonsmith.jpg) But regular dudes no longer have awesome hats ![[image loading]](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2d/3a/ac/2d3aacfaa39b6b0b77b5e2efcec0a567.jpg) Still, I do hope they make it into the game. Dorfs with magic and big monsters like the lammasu are teh shiznits! | ||
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hexhaven
Finland926 Posts
On February 06 2021 07:10 Manit0u wrote: I'm sorry to burst your bubble but I think they might go with the more modern approach of the Legion of Azgorh which does not have the same aesthetic (sadly). As long as the faction's in the game, I'm sure some aspiring modders will add the cool hats. | ||
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akatama
Romania982 Posts
The difficulty bonuses are stupid. AI melee is beyond overpowered; if two units with identical stats are fighting one another the AI ones will do 40-80% more damage and will essentially never route to terror. AI missiles get silly accuracy buffs but it's only really noticeable on high spread artillery (mortars, rockets, cygors). In contrast player missiles are unhindered by AI buffs so it's a no brainer choice. Large battles feel bad because everything dies too fast. Most fights are decided 1-2 minutes after the lines engage but walking into position from deployment takes twice as long. Even fast units coming to reinforce from the battlefield edge will find themselves arrive too late to turn the tide. Doomstacks get incentivized by supply lines, exp gain being tied to battle result and Lightning Strike being abusable when combined with ammo, magic and healing cap resetting each fight instead of at the beginning of the turn like replenishment. Big, close, bloody battles are a detriment when the AI recovers way faster than you and they give less exp to boot. While points 2 and 4 might get addressed, I doubt points 1 and 3 will. Still, I am hopeful for game 3, if only because we get shiny new factions to play with (and hopefully an overhaul of all existing Chaos aligned factions). | ||
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hgfddfggfd
6 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7838 Posts
On February 06 2021 05:30 Archeon wrote: Thanks for the thread Manit0u. I still think the best way to address doomstacks is simply to introduce harder counters to ranged and monsters. Apparently light cav in 3k have 50% missile resistance and archers are squishy. In TWW a lot of the archers can manfight the light cav even if the latter doesn't get turned into a needle cushion first. Monsters suffer from the same problem where they are basically uncountered by slot, if f.e. t4+ halberds could handily beat even heavy monsters in a manfight building monostacks would be a lot more dangerous. But in tww the star dragon can roast 3-4 stacks of phoenix guards before it goes down, so since the triangular balancing isn't really working mass stacks of the unit types that are powerful are simply the way to go and that's generally arty/archers/monsters. That being said especially archers need a general nerf, they are way too strong for how much better they are on the map and unlike monsters they are cheap and don't have a reason to be that strong. Especially the fact that high tier units are barely any better at dealing with low tier archers than low tier units is pretty absurd and makes these peasant or elven archer doomstacks so tedious to deal with. They still have the possibility to treat it like Araby and fill their spot on the map with other factions. But considering that everyone expected those two and that Araby has some thematic problems I don't really expect that to happen. To me the problem is simpler than that. New stacks are increasingly more expensive thanks to the supply line mechanics so it makes no sense to take basic archers rather than sisters of Averlorn or spearmen rather Phoenix Guards. It's not rock paper cissor that needs fixing, it's the supply line mechanics that makes non elite units irrelevant. Maybe unit A is twice more expensive and twice better than unit B but five stacks of unit A is muuuuuch cheaper than ten stacks of unit B, so you only ever make stacks of units A because you want to minimize your number of stacks. Tabletop army caps solves that beautifully though. The game is really a million times better with the mod. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
I don't have a problem with lategame doomstacks comprised of multiple categories of expensive units. It's only when those doomstacks are comprised of only 1-2 type of units that it becomes a problem. I find it tedious to have to field multiple types of units in the same category. That's just too many different types of units in a single stack. And it gets monotonous too if every stack needs to have every category of unit. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
No need to hold territories etc. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
Legend bets $500 on Chaos Dwarves being the pre-order race pack and thinks they'll come to TWW2 before TWW3 releases. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21482 Posts
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7838 Posts
On February 07 2021 01:36 andrewlt wrote: I only play on lower difficulties. I think the issue is more related to balancing higher difficulties. Both the supply line problem and the archer problem are exacerbated by the penalties the player gets and the bonuses the AI gets in higher difficulties. The supply line cost penalties in higher difficulties is just too large. And the bonuses the AI gets in melee combat are too large as well. That incentivizes players to use melee as nothing more than meat shields and rely on ranged/artillery/magic to actually do damage. I don't have a problem with lategame doomstacks comprised of multiple categories of expensive units. It's only when those doomstacks are comprised of only 1-2 type of units that it becomes a problem. I find it tedious to have to field multiple types of units in the same category. That's just too many different types of units in a single stack. And it gets monotonous too if every stack needs to have every category of unit. Frankly the game is soooo much more satisfying when this phoenix guard unit is reaaally special, or when chosing to include this sundragon means you will have to pass on those sweet sisters of averlorn. Lore wise having frontline of Ironbreakers or Phoenix guards makes no sense either. They should be the pinacle of your forces, not your bread and butter frontline regulars. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On February 07 2021 05:59 Biff The Understudy wrote: Frankly the game is soooo much more satisfying when this phoenix guard unit is reaaally special, or when chosing to include this sundragon means you will have to pass on those sweet sisters of averlorn. Lore wise having frontline of Ironbreakers or Phoenix guards makes no sense either. They should be the pinacle of your forces, not your bread and butter frontline regulars. It's the same way with the historical games. Fielding armies purely made of samurai or knights is unrealistic too. But it's needed from a gameplay perspective. If I'm fielding a balanced force of missile troops, cavalry, artillery, monsters, regular infantry and anti-large infantry, I don't want to have to make even further distinctions between cheap and elite units. It just feels like a micromanagement nightmare. I actually find myself ignoring regiments of renown for that reason. Or just lumping them in with similar units. | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
On February 07 2021 00:53 Biff The Understudy wrote: To me the problem is simpler than that. New stacks are increasingly more expensive thanks to the supply line mechanics so it makes no sense to take basic archers rather than sisters of Averlorn or spearmen rather Phoenix Guards. It's not rock paper cissor that needs fixing, it's the supply line mechanics that makes non elite units irrelevant. Maybe unit A is twice more expensive and twice better than unit B but five stacks of unit A is muuuuuch cheaper than ten stacks of unit B, so you only ever make stacks of units A because you want to minimize your number of stacks. Tabletop army caps solves that beautifully though. The game is really a million times better with the mod. I agree that supply lines makes monsters a lot better, but monsters and archers beat almost all units by cost. It's removal wouldn't change how numerically busted ranged burst is and that when I build melee infantry I know that I'm building a much weaker army than I could. Which is a shame, because there's nothing strategic about the use of archer or monster spam and every battle plays the same, while mixed infantry/cav matchups can be a lot of fun. But if supply lines weren't a thing the most efficient play would be to just get two elven t1 archer stacks instead of a SoA stack. The main reason I only play SFO nowadays if ever, because while archers are still a threat in SFO, they don't nuke half your hp down before units engage. @difficulty: battle difficulty boni are dumb, but even on normal ranged spam is way superior to anything but monster spam. Bretonian peasant archers have roughly the dps of a dread saurian (the highest monster dps) and hit targets at 3/4 of their range with close to pinpoint accuracy for some reason, while the dread Saurian will miss a lot more attacks. The difference is that on lower diffs the enemy doesn't field enough armies to be a threat, so it's easier to ignore efficiency. | ||
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akatama
Romania982 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7838 Posts
On February 07 2021 06:58 Archeon wrote: I agree that supply lines makes monsters a lot better, but monsters and archers beat almost all units by cost. It's removal wouldn't change how numerically busted ranged burst is and that when I build melee infantry I know that I'm building a much weaker army than I could. Which is a shame, because there's nothing strategic about the use of archer or monster spam and every battle plays the same, while mixed infantry/cav matchups can be a lot of fun. But if supply lines weren't a thing the most efficient play would be to just get two elven t1 archer stacks instead of a SoA stack. The main reason I only play SFO nowadays if ever, because while archers are still a threat in SFO, they don't nuke half your hp down before units engage. @difficulty: battle difficulty boni are dumb, but even on normal ranged spam is way superior to anything but monster spam. Bretonian peasant archers have roughly the dps of a dread saurian (the highest monster dps) and hit targets at 3/4 of their range with close to pinpoint accuracy for some reason, while the dread Saurian will miss a lot more attacks. The difference is that on lower diffs the enemy doesn't field enough armies to be a threat, so it's easier to ignore efficiency. Yep. Again that's why i love the tabletop cap so much. Elite units are still the way to go because the supply line mechanics is in place but at the same time you can't spam them and are forced to make balanced stacks. Also, while range are still overpowered, you still need someone to hold the line. If you invest all your rare and special unit points into ranged, your frontline will be garbage and you are gonna lose the battle anyway. Even if you nuked half the HP of those Chosen before they made contact. A quarter hp Chosen still mops the floor with those empire swordsmen. | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
On February 07 2021 23:49 akatama wrote: Ranged problem can easily be solved by lowering the amount of overall ammo. There's no need for them to get 20% ammo from skills and another 20% from techs (to say nothing of master engineer bonuses). Not only is it too much for battles, but it also breaks autoresolve, pushing ranged heavy factions ahead of others. That wouldn't solve that every time you run into an t1 archer stack you loose 40% health on all troops though unless you have a bunch of superfast t4/5 monsters. I prefer walking through tons of corruption over invading Ulthuan or Athel Loren because of how strong their low tier archers are. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
The natural counter to archers is cavalry. However, cavalry just feels too weak in recent games. In the WH games, I've been mostly ignoring them in favor of fast, cavalry-like monsters. It doesn't help that siege battles are just busted and cavalry are mostly useless there. That's partly why I favor heavy ranged/artillery/magic stacks. | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
That archers have decent hp values and sometimes even decent melee stats (orc/dwarfs/norsca/elven hybrids) and that most skirmish cav can fire while moving relegates most light cav/dogs to cleanup duty because quite often they can't fight archers or skirmishers without taking heavy losses. So ironically they are actually best combined with archers which generally suffer from the fact that all their damage gets split up fairly evenly between models and profit from a unit that can drive up losses. Also light cav is fairly good at splitting the AI apart, which again helps archers who vastly prefer taking units out one by one. Fighting cav just falls off a cliff the moment heavier monsters hit the field and are the only somewhat expensive unit type that looses to infantry-"counters". Non-AL-Shock cav is fun to play imo, but basically only pummels infantry and as pointed out by andrewlt paying 300-400 upkeep for a slot that is useless in half the battles feels pretty bad. Much better unit type when you mod out the majority of the very tedious siege battles (which I heavily recommend). Tbf almost all cav destroys chariots and routing units and in difference to infantry can shield backlines quite well especially if they happen to have AL, so having 1-2 cav units is quite helpful on occasion. If heavy shock cav gets to use their bonus they also deal a ton of damage. Cav unlike melee infantry can actually fulfill specific roles, but it's generally not very good at dealing with problematic units. | ||
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Latham
9555 Posts
An example of a pure ranged stack and what it can do + Show Spoiler + I posted this as a semi-joke, so don't take it too seriously. Dwarves vs Skaven is already hugely in favor of Skaven and this is a multiplayer battle, not a campaign skirmish. But it's still hilarious to see how they shred the stunties. I imagine Sisters of Avelorn &/or Waywatchers can do similar stuff, and I imagine to a much wider range of factions. | ||
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akatama
Romania982 Posts
As if this was not enough, capacity for Plague Priests is very easy to get since Bell Polisher followers rain from the sky (and this is after their drop rate got nerfed). Plus you can get them in lord version so you don't have to waste a single army slot. The Skavenblight Gouda is some strong stuff. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2562 Posts
Sure archers are great (Teclis seaguard stack with 4 stardragons ftw) but Mazdamundi with a full temple guard stack will just roll everything with a few units for support. Same for kro-gar and saurus just that you get the ball rolling way sooner. Even cav can be good. Reiksguard with Franz solves a lot of early game problems with their +10 vs large. | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
Naturally there are some that buff naturally strong units like Ikkit or Imrik (who also get earlier access), but a lot of the LLs get only slight boni and upkeep reductions to units that are either unlocked when the campaign is mostly over or that are outclassed by other picks (Malekith f.e. gets the best of both worlds). If you level your Blood kiss Lord to lvl 12 he gets bats free of upkeep, yay. Tbf CA has been getting better at making more unique campaigns, Grom, Ikkit, Snikch, Markus Wulfhardt, TicTacToe all support unique playstyles that are quite strong. Some could maybe be a little less busted, but one of the reasons I enjoyed Grom and TicTacToe were that I could get away with building armies that would totally be crap normally. But especially the old world Lords often feel very generic, give slight boosts to units that you won't keep for long or slap a generic -50% upkeep on heroes which doesn't really matter because by the time you can get a lot you're on average strength rank 1. So you just get what you always get and they basically are just a generic Lord that's a slightly better fighter. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
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Archeon
3252 Posts
Siege rework is likely in according to GraceCA iirc, Chaos invasion too considering that there are 4 new factions for these and that we'll see some map changes. Supply lines and horde mechanics are somewhat likely to see reworks eventually considering that CA experimented with these already in TWW2, whether we see them on release remains to be seen. I'm not holding my breath for unit type rebalancings, missile troops have only grown stronger over the course of warhammer. Generally I enjoy Vortex ministories and custom objectives, so I hope something like that is in. Tbf that works much better with more Lords, so if they release the chaos factions with 1 each I don't mind if they don't have objectives that streamline their campaign. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2562 Posts
Just in general add more depth to the overland map. Supply rework is also badly needed. I would like to see benefits of having more smaller armies doing stuff on their own with cheaper units. Like armies with <5 units can be lead by heroes and have massively reduced upkeep, armies <10 units do not cause supply line effects. Make unit tiers not affect this equally. Tier 1 units are one supply point, star dragon is 5, skaven slave is 0,1. Allow armies to merge into mega armies preventing lightning strikes but reducing move speed per turn by 20 %. Cap strikes per turn to 1. So many changes that could be good. | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
That being said if it comes with a rebalancing I'm in favor of a corruption mechanic that increases general costs with number of towns instead of supply lines. But these two need to happen together imo, else it'll be like Stellaris where the first unit you get is the most cost efficient thing to spam (fixed now in Stellaris). There's a multiplayer point limiter mod for armies that imo would go a long way to combat doomstacks. I prefer this over f.e. tabletop caps because I get the freedom to get a small elite army or a large trash one. Map movement is btw the thing that holds the AI back the most, but since I like fighting against the odds I hope that the AI pertains some weaknesses that you can use as long as it's not super cheesy. I'm not sure about diplomacy tbh. I don't think it's good in TWW2, but outside of how hard it is to get the small deals going with neutral factions it isn't really infuriating and I feel that a more complex diplomacy would move the focus of the game and want TWW to remain a wargame. Agreed that cults would be cool and I really would like to see another scouting method or starts with more heroes, because especially on higher diff I have to play the start mostly blind, which is one of the more common reasons for resets. Overall corruption could be a lot more interactive and I feel that between dilemmas, undercities and heroes there are tools there to do this. F.e. you could give Chaos undercities where you go through one of the four gods to corrupt the city. Heroes could trigger corruption dilemmas if they stay within the vicinity of an undercity for say 5 turns. The problematic part with spying/corruption is again asynchronous balance, so the AI would have to get either a very toned down version or no access to these features. Because else getting -public order events every 2 turns in your capital because there's a swarm of heroes from the 9 factions you're at war with doesn't sound like fun to me. | ||
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akatama
Romania982 Posts
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Archeon
3252 Posts
If we are talking about getting other games mechanics I think that Troy's resource system has a lot of potential to limit monsters. The largest problem I have with monsters isn't that some are op, it's that they are spammable. Having a unique resource income that limits how many you can afford would imo be a great way to limit them without feeling extremely artificial or snowbally. It would also give a reason to get phoenixes over dragons f.e., which is a common problem. Warhammer's take could be to make the upkeep based on trade resources, which would both give potentially some depth to trade agreements as well as give provinces some more situational value than just income. Some factions like Norsca could get them through regular monster hunts, which would add secondary objectives to the map. On a side note I hope they revisit the tier system. I'd prefer cities to get build up to t3 and after that you pay growth and a lot of money for every high tier building. As a result there'd be more of decision between different building paths instead of just the question whether you want t4/t5 or not in the city. | ||
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akatama
Romania982 Posts
I wish they would bring Proving Grounds back for changes they consider but are not 100% sure of. Balance aside, some stuff I would love: 1. Advanced campaign settings. Let us customize more stuff, give a bias to certain factions so it's more likely they will grow big. Different end game crises. Let us choose between several start options (different start units, a stronger starting city etc.; think back to Heroes of Might and Magic). Hell, even different rule sets, imagine if you could play Vortex on the grand campaign map as long as you select a compatible faction. 2. Points of interest on land similar to those at sea. Give us more stuff to interact with that does not involve going to war with other factions. 3. More consistency with skills and skill lines. Look at the vampire coast blue line, then look at wh1 factions. They are terrible by comparison. Look at Wight Kings or Empire Captains, then look at any lizardman hero. 4. Mounts as items you buy instead of requiring skill points. 5. An overhaul of the equipment and follower UI. The current one is terrible to manage in longer campaigns, endless scrolling through tiny windows. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2562 Posts
So you can set your own goals and time limits along with changing other things. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
My wishlist: 1. Siege rework - just tedious and unfun 2. Chaos invasion rework - gets repetitive after first campaign and I generally dislike difficulty in the shape of magically respawning armies out of nowhere 3. Diplomacy adjustments - I like the simplified nature of Warhammer's diplomacy because its focus is on the battles. Just wish it wouldn't be so biased against the player. Look, players are going to win most campaigns. It's just the nature of most single player games. There's no reason to make diplomacy useless in the mid-game because the AI hates the player winning. 4. Tone down AI raiding behavior - I know it's a legitimate real world tactic but it's really annoying to have AI stacks constantly running around my lands or in water near my borders refusing to fight battles. Make it easier for the player to actually catch up to these stacks, fight them and eliminate them. 5. Equipment and follower UI - Really needs a way to sell or get rid of redundant followers and equipment. And a much easier way to getting a list of which lord/hero has what equipped and who has an empty slot. 6. Supply lines rework - They went back to the corruption mechanic in Three Kingdoms and I feel like it works much better. It gives more of an incentive to build up cities/towns because you can reduce corruption and regain lost income with certain buildings. It does its job of slowing down the player conquering settlements one after another. At the same time, you can actually field more armies later on once you've built up towns and regained lost income. 7. Recruitment building bonuses - Considering the size of the map, it's puzzling how bonuses to recruitment are mostly local. It's pretty tedious to run lords around so we can recruit specific units in specific provinces for the local rank bonuses. It's not too bad in Three Kingdoms because of the way recruitment works over there but I don't think that would work in Warhammer. | ||
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Meta
United States6225 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7838 Posts
The worst thing is confederation. I really hate dwarves and high elves snowballing into mega superpower just because they randomly confederate a faction every 10 turns. I think there should be much more vassals and much less confederations. A coalition of united dwarven holds would be fun and make sense lorewise. Karaz a Karak owning half the map doesn't. | ||
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ghffjghrtree
2 Posts
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Archeon
3252 Posts
On February 11 2021 18:08 Biff The Understudy wrote: For me diplomacy is one of the things really dragging that game down. It's completely nonsensical. You get +120 diplomatic relation to factions that keep refusing a trade agreement or even a non aggro pact. The worst thing is confederation. I really hate dwarves and high elves snowballing into mega superpower just because they randomly confederate a faction every 10 turns. I think there should be much more vassals and much less confederations. A coalition of united dwarven holds would be fun and make sense lorewise. Karaz a Karak owning half the map doesn't. I agree that diplomacy is nonsensical in the way that it's extremely random when a deal works and when it doesn't. This is especially infuriating for the "starter" deals like trade, non aggression or access. Like quite often you are f.e. the empire, spam NAP every other turn on the +40 Balthasar in hopes that he accepts and your flank is somewhat secure while you're attacking orcs in Bretonia and then Wulfrik the Wanderer invites Balthasar into war against you. If there were clear boxes you need to check like in EU to get a deal instead of the seeming randomness of the current system you wouldn't be forced to spam that trade/NAP button on every faction with "medium" probability in the early game when you often have your hands full with the war invite train. Gifts would become a much more meaningful tool if it was clear how much opinion you still need. But outside of changes to shield of civilization and a "make this work" button that's kinda all I want, because currently I'm spending usually very little time in the diplomacy screen and I prefer it that way. TWW is a bit arcadey and if we're increasing complexity of stuff I'd rather see more complex map or faction mechanics than a deep diplomacy. On February 11 2021 07:17 andrewlt wrote: Count me in among the people who absolutely hated the non-combat unit spam in Rome 2. I was glad they toned that down in Warhammer and got rid of it in Three Kingdoms. My wishlist: 1. Siege rework - just tedious and unfun 2. Chaos invasion rework - gets repetitive after first campaign and I generally dislike difficulty in the shape of magically respawning armies out of nowhere 3. Diplomacy adjustments - I like the simplified nature of Warhammer's diplomacy because its focus is on the battles. Just wish it wouldn't be so biased against the player. Look, players are going to win most campaigns. It's just the nature of most single player games. There's no reason to make diplomacy useless in the mid-game because the AI hates the player winning. 4. Tone down AI raiding behavior - I know it's a legitimate real world tactic but it's really annoying to have AI stacks constantly running around my lands or in water near my borders refusing to fight battles. Make it easier for the player to actually catch up to these stacks, fight them and eliminate them. 5. Equipment and follower UI - Really needs a way to sell or get rid of redundant followers and equipment. And a much easier way to getting a list of which lord/hero has what equipped and who has an empty slot. 6. Supply lines rework - They went back to the corruption mechanic in Three Kingdoms and I feel like it works much better. It gives more of an incentive to build up cities/towns because you can reduce corruption and regain lost income with certain buildings. It does its job of slowing down the player conquering settlements one after another. At the same time, you can actually field more armies later on once you've built up towns and regained lost income. 7. Recruitment building bonuses - Considering the size of the map, it's puzzling how bonuses to recruitment are mostly local. It's pretty tedious to run lords around so we can recruit specific units in specific provinces for the local rank bonuses. It's not too bad in Three Kingdoms because of the way recruitment works over there but I don't think that would work in Warhammer. Somewhat off-topic: While I agree with most of this, just wanted to mention that you can remove a lot of these issues. You can deactivate the chaos invasion nowadays in vanilla, there are mods that turn most sieges into normal battles, remove the major power debuffs in diplomacy and give bonus movement in home terrain (I recommend skilling ambush and then ambush near a bait anyways). Also the AI always switches to raiding stance if they cross territory that is corrupted, which is just one of the many disadvantages of corruption. Corruption definitely could see a rework too, atm it's mostly a pain. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On February 11 2021 18:08 Biff The Understudy wrote: For me diplomacy is one of the things really dragging that game down. It's completely nonsensical. You get +120 diplomatic relation to factions that keep refusing a trade agreement or even a non aggro pact. The worst thing is confederation. I really hate dwarves and high elves snowballing into mega superpower just because they randomly confederate a faction every 10 turns. I think there should be much more vassals and much less confederations. A coalition of united dwarven holds would be fun and make sense lorewise. Karaz a Karak owning half the map doesn't. I may have already mentioned this in the other thread but I started a normal game for shits and giggles the last time I played WH2. Karl Franz got himself eliminated and then respawned during a rebellion in some random minor settlement. From that one settlement, he managed to go from 1 settlement to 80-100 settlements in the space of maybe just 20-30 turns by repeated confederation. I don't think it's possible for players to do this in diplomacy. The game has way too many adjustments to make AI factions like each other more and hate the player in absurd lore breaking ways. Tyrion shouldn't be more willing to have an alliance with Malekith than having a trade agreement with Teclis just because I so happen to be playing Teclis. | ||
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jhgjhghgf
2 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7838 Posts
On February 12 2021 11:20 andrewlt wrote: I may have already mentioned this in the other thread but I started a normal game for shits and giggles the last time I played WH2. Karl Franz got himself eliminated and then respawned during a rebellion in some random minor settlement. From that one settlement, he managed to go from 1 settlement to 80-100 settlements in the space of maybe just 20-30 turns by repeated confederation. I don't think it's possible for players to do this in diplomacy. The game has way too many adjustments to make AI factions like each other more and hate the player in absurd lore breaking ways. Tyrion shouldn't be more willing to have an alliance with Malekith than having a trade agreement with Teclis just because I so happen to be playing Teclis. I tried a game with the no confederation mod playing Karak Kadrin a while back, it was really fun. I think it adds a lot of complexity to the game. It's just, the vassal system could be refined and strengthened. That would reflect the medieval feel of WHFB a lot imo. Then again, Kadrin's slayers are totally and utterly broken, which kind of ruined the experience. Also the skaven tended to benefit a bit too much from the change of rules. Those f...ers are an absolute chore to fight. Everything about them is bs. I hope that WH3 is a bit less arcady and a bit more subtle on the campaign map. I know it's not civilization but you should feel that a faction did something to "deserve" suddenly doubling in size. | ||
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sdfsdfshgfdffsd
4 Posts
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On February 12 2021 23:17 sdfsdfshgfdffsd wrote: The game seems to have as shitty of a design as it gets. Why are people so hyped for Warhammer 3? Maybe the people who complain aren't the same as those getting hyped. Also, the people who post on gaming forums aren't a random sample of the population of people interested in WH3. Personally though, I find these issues minor and they don't detract nearly enough from the fun to come close to killing the hype for me. | ||
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sdfsdfshgfdffsd
4 Posts
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On February 12 2021 23:31 sdfsdfshgfdffsd wrote: Do you really believe the "HYPE HYPE HYPE" people judge the game by its design? Or do they judge the game by "OMG EPIC BATTLE(TRAILER) WARHAMMER WAGGGGHHH"? Both | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
On February 12 2021 23:17 sdfsdfshgfdffsd wrote: The game seems to have as shitty of a design as it gets. Why are people so hyped for Warhammer 3? We're naturally discussing what we'd like to see changed because these are the points we perceive as weak in tww2. We don't really need to discuss that the game has a great soundtrack and voice acting, that battles are bombastic, magic awesome, units awesome and the fact that 8/9 DLCs are absolutely worth the money (which is a huge exception). I have 1.1k hours within 3 years in tww and never regretted any of those, but after all this time I can pinpoint pretty well which things I think could use some work. And yes I get hyped every time they release a trailer, CA's trailers for the game are awesome and the lore is fun. In fact I'm super hyped for tww3. In part because I hope to see them address some of the more fundamental issues with the release of the new game, but also because I can't wait to deliver a skull throne for my blood god. In a similar vein I could immediately say which things bug me in my other most played games. That doesn't mean that I don't love playing them. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7838 Posts
Guess some folks don't have anything better to do 😕 | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2562 Posts
So there are high hopes for TW3 and people who love the previous games naturally hope that they will change the weaker aspects. Not saying they can't just stick to the formula and do a new better and bigger TW 2 because that would still be a great game. But expectations are higher than that. For anyone who played WH1 on release and now owns WH2 with full DLC I think they can understand exactly why people want the last game to be perfect. | ||
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JGHJGHJHGJHG
3 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On February 12 2021 21:23 Biff The Understudy wrote: I tried a game with the no confederation mod playing Karak Kadrin a while back, it was really fun. I think it adds a lot of complexity to the game. It's just, the vassal system could be refined and strengthened. That would reflect the medieval feel of WHFB a lot imo. Then again, Kadrin's slayers are totally and utterly broken, which kind of ruined the experience. Also the skaven tended to benefit a bit too much from the change of rules. Those f...ers are an absolute chore to fight. Everything about them is bs. I hope that WH3 is a bit less arcady and a bit more subtle on the campaign map. I know it's not civilization but you should feel that a faction did something to "deserve" suddenly doubling in size. The Skaven being the second faction in many DLC and getting better things than the top billed faction is a meme by now. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7838 Posts
On February 13 2021 09:36 andrewlt wrote: The Skaven being the second faction in many DLC and getting better things than the top billed faction is a meme by now. I think they are complete bs and extremely frustrating to fight against which is exactly what they are supposed to be. In that sense CA nailed them. The normal reaction to a skaven battle should be "Oh COME ON" and that happens literally every time. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21482 Posts
On February 13 2021 18:34 Biff The Understudy wrote: I normally enjoy fighting most battles manually but when fighting Skaven is autoresolve every chance I get exactly because of that "oh come on" feeling.I think they are complete bs and extremely frustrating to fight against which is exactly what they are supposed to be. In that sense CA nailed them. The normal reaction to a skaven battle should be "Oh COME ON" and that happens literally every time. The rats poping out of the ground everywhere and nukes flying around is what makes skaven so unique in Fantasy. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France7838 Posts
On February 13 2021 18:57 Gorsameth wrote: I normally enjoy fighting most battles manually but when fighting Skaven is autoresolve every chance I get exactly because of that "oh come on" feeling. The rats poping out of the ground everywhere and nukes flying around is what makes skaven so unique in Fantasy. I know right. Also losing half your Phoenix Gard after 6 seconds because one of their 15 OP artillery / range units or one of their BS spell launched from across the map happens to make contact is quintessentially skaven. In my TT unit cap high elves campaign, I made a few base archers / spearmen stacks to deal with skaven. That way, when a unit gets nuked for totally unpreventable and unforseable reasons, I am not too sad. It's really not worth investing in Sisters of Averlorn against those guys. One thing that could really have been done better about both skaven and greenskins is their unreliability / unpredictability though. That was their whole point on tabletops and it was hilarious. Fanatics were devastating, but they moved randomly. I remember battles where my fanatics killed my own general, a unit of black orcs and created a mass rout in my own army without making contact with the enemy. I saw skaven artillery wiping half of their own army before the first engagement, and I lost all my artillery pieces to catastrophic malfunctions by round 3 more than once. That aspect is absent of the game, and I really regret it. Yup it's random, but do those degenerate rats look like german ingeniers to you? | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2562 Posts
On February 13 2021 18:57 Gorsameth wrote: I normally enjoy fighting most battles manually but when fighting Skaven is autoresolve every chance I get exactly because of that "oh come on" feeling. The rats poping out of the ground everywhere and nukes flying around is what makes skaven so unique in Fantasy. Game is missing the "oh come on" from the skaven side when all the fancy tech blows itself and half the army up at the start of the battle. They included all the pros but none of the cons of skaven bullshit from the TT. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21482 Posts
On February 13 2021 20:03 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Yeah but even the later skaven editions turned away from doing that because its not that fun when it happens to you.Game is missing the "oh come on" from the skaven side when all the fancy tech blows itself and half the army up at the start of the battle. They included all the pros but none of the cons of skaven bullshit from the TT. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France7838 Posts
On February 13 2021 20:19 Gorsameth wrote: Yeah but even the later skaven editions turned away from doing that because its not that fun when it happens to you. You kidding? It's hilarious! All my best warhammer memories involve my armies self destructing and all my wicked plans turn to hilarity because, well, what did you expect goblins to do? I think the saddest thing about Games Workshop is that from a setting that was 90% dark humour and satire, they slowly slided into some kind of wannabe grandiose, dark setting that actually takes itself quite seriously. Original GW was pure hilarity. Literally nothing was serious about it. And if you wanted a reliable army because you didn't like losing because trolls are stupid, goblins cowardly and orcs can't stop hitting each others with clubs and behaving like british holigans on a world cup final versus Germany, well, you would play the High Elves. They were pompous asses though. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On February 13 2021 18:57 Gorsameth wrote: I normally enjoy fighting most battles manually but when fighting Skaven is autoresolve every chance I get exactly because of that "oh come on" feeling. The rats poping out of the ground everywhere and nukes flying around is what makes skaven so unique in Fantasy. Ya, their archetype is usually reserved for the least technologically advanced factions, not the most technologically advanced one. It's a unique faction for sure. | ||
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Latham
9555 Posts
Global times for the release: ![[image loading]](https://cdn.cloudflare.steamstatic.com/steamcommunity/public/images/clans/39760201/b4106a70b63ccf9e0def22195ddf40cb3d15f424.jpg) Anyone excited?! A lot of YTbers with early access are saying the game is good, although with a few flaws. But they're confident that it will age like fine wine with DLCs & Immortal Empires being released in the future. specs needed to run this: ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/1yJHo4S.png) Who will be your 1st playthrough? Poll: First Playthrough Ogres (3) Chaos Undivided (Demons) (3) Kislev (2) Slaanesh (2) Khorne (2) Nurgle (2) Cathay (1) Tzeentch (0) 15 total votes Your vote: First Playthrough (Vote): Kislev Here's a very extensive review by Mandalore + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21482 Posts
Going to start of with running a wall of meat at enemies as Ogres, also interested in giving Cathey a go. But mostly eagerly waiting for the insanity of Mortal Empires and hoping that it won't be long until Chaos Dwarves are added. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24262 Posts
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Archeon
3252 Posts
On February 17 2022 07:02 WombaT wrote: Never got round to trying a Total War game, would this be a decent one to jump in at? Looks pretty cool anyway and I do love the setting From the reviews I've seen warhammer 2 is a better starting point than warhammer 3 is going to be tomorrow. Warhammer 2 is a very polished game when it comes to battles and mostly bug-free and while warhammer 3 brings some major improvements in areas where warhammer 2 was lacking (minor city battles, diplomacy) according to what I've heard the main campaign mechanics need some work and there are still some fairly noticeable bugs. On the flipside wh3 comes with a tutorial campaign that's supposed to be very good. But considering that warhammer 2 regularly goes on sale, that having wh2 will eventually unlock the larger map for wh3 if you have it and that wh3 still has a lot of room to grow I think getting wh2 on sale is a better plan currently. Overall as someone who more or less started with wh1 the series is definitely a good starting point for total war though. | ||
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Latham
9555 Posts
On February 17 2022 07:02 WombaT wrote: Never got round to trying a Total War game, would this be a decent one to jump in at? Looks pretty cool anyway and I do love the setting I heard this is going to be on monthly game pass? If you have it, check it out there first. If you like it a lot buy it, but I'd personally wait for Immortal Empires to be put in before giving CA 60$ for this game (if it was my 1st TW: Warhammer game in the trilogy). Otherwise I agree with Archeon. If you can find the whole TW: Warhammer II (DLCs included) and TW: Warhammer I on sale and for dirt cheap somewhere, I'd wholeheartedly recommend that over Warhammer III at this moment. Warhammer II has a combined campaign mode from games I & II to play, which is mad fun and has a vast plethora of races to choose from. Humans, Skaven, Elves, Orks, Undead... it has everything. As it currently stands Warhammer III campaign mode will be a little barebones with very little variety, until they release Immortal Empires a few months in the future that will combine all 3 games' maps into 1 gigantic domination campaign. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21482 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10632 Posts
I’m kinda hyped for this but none of the factions really appeal to me. Yes, i’m a dirty rat. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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Latham
9555 Posts
On February 17 2022 23:11 Velr wrote: Is there any timeframe for Mortal Empires / Old races being added? I’m kinda hyped for this but none of the factions really appeal to me. Yes, i’m a dirty rat. I heard "2 to 3 months" being thrown around on reddit, but that is entirely based off of the time frame of Mortal Empires in Warhammer II. CA has not communicated anything officially just yet. | ||
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hexhaven
Finland926 Posts
On February 17 2022 07:02 WombaT wrote: Never got round to trying a Total War game, would this be a decent one to jump in at? Looks pretty cool anyway and I do love the setting After several hours in TWW3, I agree with the above posters in that getting TWW2 cheap is the better choice for now. It's more polished, well-rounded and probably a tad more stable, while still offering boat loads of gameplay. Also if this is your first Total War title out of them all, you don't have to spend 60€ to see if you like the genre or not. | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
Also AR can't win a battle to save it's life. I shouldn't have to fight 20v6. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21482 Posts
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
BUT it has such a slow start it's insanely hard at higher diff | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On February 20 2022 19:23 Gorsameth wrote: I haven't had much issue with auto resolve in the field but during town fights the defending side gets a way to big bonus to AR for how it actually plays out if you manually fight. Yikes, those are the fights that I want to auto resolve the most because I hate them. From what I searched, it looks like CA made siege battles even more tedious and annoying. | ||
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Latham
9555 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Kislev's Perspective] + As Kislev when you hit 600 supporters the game auto-confederates you with the other faction by force, and this causes honestly so much internal turmoil that it's almost unreal. You go from a ~4-6K income per turn to BLEEDING 6K per turn. Kostaltyn somehow conquered half of Norsca, but not complete provinces, but instead 1-2 settlements per province. It looked like swiss cheese. Furthermore the hero himself was half-way sailed to Scarbrand's part of the Chaos Wastes. I had to disband so many armies, heroes and witches and completely give up on Norsca, focusing instead on a United Kislev front. But that's when the fun starts and ALL 5 DEMON ARMIES (Slaanesh, Khorne, Nurgle, Tzeentch, Undivided) and what's left of Norscans (lol) start giving you their undivided attention, both internally from the damn rifts, and externally with army after army after ARMY pouring in through every crevace... you can literally feel being the Bulwark of the Old World (as Katarin so proudly calls her nation) every 30 turns. You can forget about expanding or conquering anything past that point. You'll have 5-6 armies on 24/7 demon clean-up duty. Demons of Chaos on the other hand + Show Spoiler [Chaos Undivided] + You get your shit kicked in from the very start by the Ordertide and player bias. You'll be hard-pressed to keep your original province in 1 piece, let alone expand to the others with the constant 20-stacks from the Empire, Wood Elves, Kostaltyn, fucking SKAVEN of all things, and the odd random demon lord that decided to make you his punching bag that day (usually Khorne), Dwarves. On top of it all, Yuri is just such a mediocre lord, a jack of all trades but a master of none. Which hurts him a lot, actually. He'll never be able to become a 1-army wrecking ball like Skarbrand, never a quick hero/lord assassin like N'kari, never as good of a spellcaster as Kairos and never as morbidly obese (tanky) as Kugath, nor will he ever get the actually amazing plagues. Plus, focusing on all 4 demon factions I feel is a noob honeytrap. Go with Khorne/Tzeentch for results, later add Slaanesh (maybe?) for flanking and whatever Nurgle is good for at the very end... Also there is absolutely 0 reson to NOT dedicate yourself to Chaos Undivided later. You don't miss out on any units. And last, but definitely not least. Pray to whatever God you believe in the Ogres won't put you on top of their Shit List for the day. Both of them are extremely annoying and deadly. In my Katarin campaign Skraag demolished 80% of the Empire and started to snip at my heels from the bottom, luckily I already had all 4 demon princes souls and just ended it before I ragequit. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10632 Posts
Some things that come immediatly to my mind: The AI behaviour when it comes to diplomacy is downright ridiculous… As Ogres you start with basically having to kill off a minor dwarf and skaven faction, after that all your neighbours are empire including reikland itself. After i killed off the skaven and dwarfs (like 4-5 turns) the first neighbour declares war on me. So i kill him, then the next 2 empire factions declare war, so i kill them. Then the next 2 empire factions declare war on me, so i kill them. All empire factions somewhat in my neighbourhood are now extinct whiteout me starting a single offensive war. During all this some random Chaos factions pretty far away also declares war on me because whatever. For some reason the nearby woodelves didn’t declare (yet) while they immediatly did in my first campaign. I didn’t even want to warmonger/map paint that bad but the game just forces it on you. I tought Ogres are supposed to be kinda diplomatic (at least optionally)? The campaign mechanic, in my opinion, is the worst thing that has ever been done to a Total War game (or probably any big 3x game). It’s not that it’s hard to deal with, it’s just tedious, boring and annoying. On top of it the AI is also too stupid to deal with it, so the world basically turns into the chaos wastes (attrition everywhere) whiteout chaos actually winning any battles or doing anything… The AI is just too dumb to close portals. Every minor settlement now potentially being a siege is also such a stupid decision, i have no clue who taught this would be a good idea. It would be allright if auto resolve wouldn’t be dumber than the average chimp and the Pathfinding/Unit AI in general wouldn’t be as absurdely bad as it is. On the bright side: Performance/Loading times are better for me than in WH2. All else: Back to WH2 and waiting for mortal empires to give it another shot. Edit: This sounds harsher than it is, the game is decent but some stuff is just so buggy/broken... Imho the move is to wait 6 months and then reevaluate. | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4219 Posts
On February 17 2022 07:02 WombaT wrote: Never got round to trying a Total War game, would this be a decent one to jump in at? Looks pretty cool anyway and I do love the setting Do you really like warhammer? if not, this probably wont feel satisfying. the base game is functional and all that, but CA has a lot of goodwill with us (the community) in that people will tolerate some stuff and buy all the DLC to make it an actually great game down the line. i finished my first campaign on 3 earlier today and was really happy to finally unlock belakor but god damn...everything is pretty much dead now, i have him but dont have any interesting stuff to do with him anymore. not giving him the ability to start a campaign was a troublesome decision by CA, no doubt. The AI is clunky at times and the tower pop ups are not fitting for this game in my eyes. i didnt find any of the performance issues people report on the forums (with the exception of the prologue where everytime a tzeentch cultist showed up, his movment would be a slide show fest) and i found the game fun. but im really missing immortal empires as im not sure i want to go through another one of these restricted campagins again, despite having done a ton of them on the vortex map. Also believe that the prologue did a better job at being a cool narrative than the actual campaign. Me being rushed everywhere almost every turn and having my main LL locked rifting or removing rift traits for most of the game also didnt help me liking the campaign much. but i still liked the idea of the rifts and RoC, just not the relentless approach you need regarding it to actually have a shot at winning, as the AI will go aggressively towards the souls and almost always get them, despite taking terrible armies to the realms. I'd say once more that the game is fun and worth it for people that like WH and/or have liked the 2 previous games, but dont expect major changes from what was the previous installment. Ah and also relevant and my main complaint about these games is that we buy the game and a ton of dlc to bring the WH world to life, but then i barely see my units in battle. i think in wh3 battles go even faster which, for me, is a terrible move as well. what's the point of playing race x instead of y if during the battle im mostly zoomed out, cycling ctrl groups, casting stuff and repositioning everyone to the point i dont even know most of the unit's in battle animations? this is not like SC where we value control over spectacle, TW WH is supposed to get a lot of value from the spectacle but at least this player is completely missing out on that part. | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
On February 22 2022 20:25 Velr wrote: I played some ogres (restarted once at around 40 turns, cause i didn’t understand how they work) and i’m now in the second rift… So far my feelings about the game are really well… «mixed» would be a positive spin, compared to WH2 this game is a pure downgrade in basically all aspects. Some things that come immediatly to my mind: The AI behaviour when it comes to diplomacy is downright ridiculous… As Ogres you start with basically having to kill off a minor dwarf and skaven faction, after that all your neighbours are empire including reikland itself. After i killed off the skaven and dwarfs (like 4-5 turns) the first neighbour declares war on me. So i kill him, then the next 2 empire factions declare war, so i kill them. Then the next 2 empire factions declare war on me, so i kill them. All empire factions somewhat in my neighbourhood are now extinct whiteout me starting a single offensive war. During all this some random Chaos factions pretty far away also declares war on me because whatever. For some reason the nearby woodelves didn’t declare (yet) while they immediatly did in my first campaign. I didn’t even want to warmonger/map paint that bad but the game just forces it on you. I tought Ogres are supposed to be kinda diplomatic (at least optionally)? The campaign mechanic, in my opinion, is the worst thing that has ever been done to a Total War game (or probably any big 3x game). It’s not that it’s hard to deal with, it’s just tedious, boring and annoying. On top of it the AI is also too stupid to deal with it, so the world basically turns into the chaos wastes (attrition everywhere) whiteout chaos actually winning any battles or doing anything… The AI is just too dumb to close portals. Every minor settlement now potentially being a siege is also such a stupid decision, i have no clue who taught this would be a good idea. It would be allright if auto resolve wouldn’t be dumber than the average chimp and the Pathfinding/Unit AI in general wouldn’t be as absurdely bad as it is. On the bright side: Performance/Loading times are better for me than in WH2. All else: Back to WH2 and waiting for mortal empires to give it another shot. Edit: This sounds harsher than it is, the game is decent but some stuff is just so buggy/broken... Imho the move is to wait 6 months and then reevaluate. @Diplomacy: That's exactly how it plays out in WH2 though, except in wh2 the first two empire provinces would have invited the second 2 and the third 2 within the first 5 turns. Honestly I feel like diplomacy is one of the areas the game is vastly improved. The UI is so much better and overall it feels to me like I get less arbitrary war declarations. @settlement battles: Imo much better than wh2, but on the flipside I agree that there are too many and I definitely share your anger for pathfinding. AR depends on campaign difficulty, so it's basically useless unless you play Normal. Overall the problem is imo mainly how scared the AI plays because I'm killing roughly as many armies as I kill settlements, but I kill almost all of these armies in settlements. Like minor settlements are cool overall and I mostly enjoy them even with the wonky pathing, but it's annoying to play almost only minor settlement battles and it really holds some factions back. Also some towers are insanely broken (Nurgle) and the AI cheats supplies out of thin air and is bugged to ignore tower cooldowns. In general I agree that it's one step forwards two steps back atm though. To make matters worse a lot of the bad design is stuff the dlc team fixed for wh2 already, so it's kinda mindboggling that we get it in wh3 again. Once the larger bugs are fixed and the workshop is online this will probably one-up wh2 for me though. Worth mentioning especially if you play Slaanesh that there are quite a few bugs that really make stuff less viable or downright bad to get. Like chariots don't get charge bonus and one of the techs is bugged to remove rewards instead of adding to an event. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
My toads/furies literally wont chase a fleeing unit for more than 5meters. It's really annoying. | ||
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Sbrubbles
Brazil5776 Posts
On March 02 2022 02:41 Erasme wrote: I have a big issue in combat, sometimes your unit will simply stop chasing an enemy after a bit even when you direct them. My toads/furies literally wont chase a fleeing unit for more than 5meters. It's really annoying. I noticed that your units start as a default on guard mode (the little shield at the bottom). I think that on TW2 and 1 they started with guard mode off. It's a very strange thing to change | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On March 02 2022 04:18 Sbrubbles wrote: I noticed that your units start as a default on guard mode (the little shield at the bottom). I think that on TW2 and 1 they started with guard mode off. It's a very strange thing to change I'm very sure that this happened in previous TW games, even with guard mode off. It's worse in siege battles with the narrow areas. Units will just stop and get themselves shot to pieces by enemy ranged units (or siege towers) the moment you take your eyes off them. I think it has to do with routers or routers getting in their way even if you ask them to attack some other unit. They will pause to attack the routers then completely forget their previous order. Question about settlement battles. Did they remove walls for minor settlement battles? I think that was the best change they made for Total War: Three Kingdoms. They were technically still "siege" battles on settlement maps but it removed a lot of tedium from the game. The supply system also reduced the amount of Benny Hill whack-a-mole AI armies marching around your territory. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
I'll try tonight with the guard mode off to see if that was it. | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On March 03 2022 04:34 Archeon wrote: Can definitely confirm that units stop chasing even without guard mode and that it's a bug that was present in wh2 already since it cost me a few close battles vs HEs where my melee units didn't feel like sticking to the routing archers and as a result got shot to bits once these rallied. The worst are Skaven. Happened to me so many times in WH2. Your unit sneezes at them. They rout. They stop routing 5 seconds later. Your unit stops chasing (even with guard mode off). They start shooting. Your unit just stands there dying. It's worst in siege battles with the narrow pathways. Even when I'm ordering my units to attack other enemy units in the distance, any router in the way will cause my units to engage the fleeing enemy units. Once they stop fighting the fleeing units, they forget their previous order and will just stand there. I have to constantly keep clicking the enemy unit in the distance until they actually make it there. | ||
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
I really enjoyed warhammer 1, which I picked up as package dfeal for 50€with all the DLCs, definitely looking for something similar for the second part. I have no issue waiting for a bit longer if it means I don't have to buy a stolen key. | ||
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Latham
9555 Posts
Warden & Paunch, Queen & Crone, Prophet & Warlock (SKAVEN love!) are high value as well. Twisted & Twilight, Shadow & Blade, Hunter & Beast, Silence & Fury (if only for Beastmen rework), are just OK, but fill up rosters for various factions so if you want all the cool toys, get them. The others I don't even know what they do (like Steps of Isha) despite owning these. The single lord ones like Lokhir or Alith Anar, are also just OK, so pick them up for your favourite faction(s). Also get the very base copy of Warhammer 1 if you can for cheap, so you can play Mortal Empires in Warhammer 2. No need for any WH1 DLCs I think (or maybe just Norsca?) and you'll have access to the very best content in the 3 games so far - Mortal Empires campaign in Warhammer 2. It combines both the Old World from WH1 and Lustria & the other 3 continents from game 2, into 1 HUGE domination campaign, which is just *chef's kiss* | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21482 Posts
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
I find Total War DLCs to be pricier and I haven't seen a big bundle yet at a price I want. My recommendation is to see what you want to play next and then check if you want to buy the DLCs for that faction. I usually plan my campaigns way in advance and then pick up the DLCs during big Steam sales. So far, I think the only DLCs I've picked up are Wood Elves for WH1 and Tomb Kings for WH2. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
LegendOfTotalWar refuses to stream TWH3 until it's fixed | ||
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
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Archeon
3252 Posts
The biggest problem though is likely that he was probably hyped for the game and now feels that it didn't deliver. WH3 is in a lot of ways one step forwards two steps back, be it tech, skill trees, difficulty scaling, or some of the campaign mechanics. Like it's cool that I now can see what influences the AI's decisions how much, but if the AI still behaves like an angry one year old that says no to almost everything that doesn't help much. The new siege battles are great, but pathing regularly breaks in them and due to the AI playing as aggressive as a paranoid hamster whenever one of my armies is in the vicinity it's the only thing I ever play. Mind you the AI still plays hyper aggressive if my armies aren't close, they regularly cross two continents to then raid my country for eternity. Tech and skill trees are back to deciding which random thing doesn't make a difference. A lot of faction mechanics really would have needed some work. With Slaanesh I can take over human factions if I build influence over time, but not playable LLs, so basically nothing after turn 100 when the ogres destroyed the empire and the minor factions all got confederated by the LLs. With DP I am through the devotion tree by turn 75, by when I don't get battle rewards outside of experience anymore. Also the demon prince gets beaten the crap out of by most of his Lords. Nurgle is basically helpless against missiles and single entities. Neither Tzeentch nor Slaanesh get a decent option to replenish troops. Long story short the game could have really used 2 months QA, it feels quite often as if the devs didn't really plan that people play more than the first 70 turns. On March 10 2022 21:53 Branch.AUT wrote: thanks for the precise answers to both of you, I'll get the basegame for TWW2 first, and when that loses the replayability I'll pick up on the DLCs you recommended. One more question: Vortex campaign, yay or nay? Vortex campaign is okayish but mainly because you can ignore it if you want, if the AI would win you get an event to stop them. I enjoy the lore tidbits thrown in, but the events can be a pest if you aren't prepared before pressing the ritual button. I generally play almost entirely ME, but depending on your rig Vortex has the shorter turn timers and isn't that different if you are playing mostly in the west. Like it's a big difference for Sartosa, Repanse and Tomb kings, for Malekith not so much. On DLCs generally give the factions a go and buy the faction dlcs of the factions you like. Their rework dlcs are worth getting, like the wood elfs, beastmen and orcs all massively profit from their respective wh2 dlcs and if you didn't get WE and BM in WH1 I'd only get them in WH2. Their later dlcs tend to be more polished. Noteworthy though that in shadow and blade and the prophet and the warlock are probably not worth it if you don't plan on playing Skaven. At least in both the non-skaven LLs and their mechanics kinda suck. Prophet and Warlock pretty much transformed how Skaven plays and Ikkit gets commonly voted as one of the must fun (also most op), so if you are interested in Skaven that's definitely one to get. Curse of the vampire coast is okay, I just don't really like the roster. But if you enjoy defensive shooting army you might differ, the units are definitely fun design wise and the campaign mechanics are decent, I just don't enjoy t1 shooting zombies being my mainstay until I spam SEs. I always liked TKs though. I think Queen & Crone adds strong units, but mediocre campaign mechanics. Hunter and Beast is probably the only one I'd rate as skip-worthy, there is a lot of stuff there that looks really cool on paper but plays out very poorly. | ||
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Latham
9555 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/cwnzi6xtqfw81.jpg) + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/4r7nc8q63gw81.png) To those new to the series, WH3 is to tell you the truth pretty barebones and WH2 received a lot more support early on, post-release. They really released this 6 months or even a year too early even after the delay(s). Shame on CA. I'm going back to WH2 Mortal Empires with mods  | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4219 Posts
On April 30 2022 07:35 Latham wrote: Creative Assembly finally released a "roadmap" (if you can even call it that) for future WH3 content... and a lot of people (including me) are NOT amused, after what they've shown and after all that radio silence from them. + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler + To those new to the series, WH3 is to tell you the truth pretty barebones and WH2 received a lot more support early on, post-release. They really released this 6 months or even a year too early even after the delay(s). Shame on CA. I'm going back to WH2 Mortal Empires with mods Me being new to CA's shenenigans with WH (was not a TW player before) made me believe the past was just some unlucky circumstances and minor things (or so I thought). But i've learned my lesson now after WH3, that is for sure. The amount of terrible game design decisions, clueless behavior from the (dev?) teams since February last year and their inability to use their CM's to help them manage their shortcomings with the community should have been warning enough, but I was a fool and bought the game, only to be terribly disapointed by its state. Specially since 2 weeks after release stores around here saw the issues and dropped the price by some 20€....if it wasn't a 60 game the pain would have been lessened, but for a full price AAA game its really a skip. | ||
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
The tactic of buying games only when they're finished, meaning after the next installment is realeased, is really paying dividends in the total war series. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
Did some research and I think I'm going to buy the pirate DLC for WH2 during Steam's summer sale this year. I'm pretty sure WE needed to be bought in WH1 to be playable in WH2 so I have a feeling Khemri/Pirates will need to be bought in WH2 to be playable in WH3. One campaign with them should be able to tide me over until maybe next year. Depending on when things go, I think I'll buy WH3 later this year or summer next year. I still don't know WTF CA is doing with the development of these games. Almost every single thing that I really want them to fix (AI anti-player bias, ranged unit targeting, auto resolve problems, needing to increase the frequency of land battles, units just randomly stop fighting) is present in every single game they release. They mostly fix the problems only to reintroduce the same bugs on their next release. Just how? | ||
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
On May 01 2022 06:08 Manit0u wrote: I'm glad you like it, although once you play the game with some DLCs you'll see how bare-bones the vanilla game is Me too! Don't really know about the dlcs, but Morathi campaign seemed complete to me. Maybe if some good deal falls out of the sky, I'll depart with my money for Khemri or Ikit claw. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10632 Posts
Snikch just lets you level up heroes and himself so ridiculously fast (and later gets a "kill this faction"-button thats probably the most broken ability in all of WH1+2+3 or any TW game for that matter. But having high level Assassin heroes early on is ridiculous enough in itself (kill that guy, now that guy). The only thing holding him back a little is that he has a harder time to get decent food (no special create underempire rite/hero). The main issue with the DLC is the "non DLC" factions after you got a DLC. The "older" faction leaders feel underdeveloped and lack mechanics when compared to the new aditions. This weekend i played some Orks with Wurzag and it felt so barebones when compared to Ikit/Snikch. Orks weren't my favorite since WH1 but it just felt like i'm missing stuff when playing them. I also got really annoyed how slow they seem to be moving on the campaign map? But i'm probably just too used to Skaven which seem way more mobile. Will need to play them some more, i did do pretty decent, but playing Orks for the first time in years I had no clue about which buildings/heroes to get first, how Whaag really works and what it means on how you should/could play. I just played "blind", therefore my mid/lategame issues were all very much homebrewed (i probably still could win the campaign whiteout too much of a hassle/exploiting the AI but i feel like I can do way better  ). I mainly just had fun playing a faction with decent cavalry and frontline again. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10632 Posts
Orks whiteout DLC lose a few (fun) toys but don't play totally diffrent. But thats my pretty unfounded feeling. | ||
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
To the DLC/Non DLC variant, I played a long Morathi campaign, and she doesn't havy any special mechanics besides slaves, and it didn't seem to be missing anything to me. Maybe that is because I haven't played any DLC Lords in Wh2 so far. New update with forced adds on the title menu really irks me though. Makes me think twice about paying this company again. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
Queek also starts with an undercity, i think the games pretty bad at telling u that Undercities are the key to skaven supremacy, they used to be pretty unplayable before that | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
Anybody play the woodelves recently? Im thinkin about dipping my feet into legendary difficulty (I play very hard+very hard battles now) on durthu. Is it a good starting choice for old world legendary? What do I need to look out for? | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
I haven't played the wood elves since the rework. Their old campaign was my favorite one to paint the map with. The new campaign mechanics seem overly defensive and totally not my style. | ||
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
My DLC buying ambitions are put on hold though, for as long as Im getting an Add forced to my screen every time I launch the main menu of the game. These predatory sale tactics don't deserve to be rewarded. I have loads of things left to play on mortal empires, including quite an amount of old worls dlc contet that I picked up years ago. Y'know back when CA was making quality games, not selling buggy beta builds for full price and putting adds inside the video game. For now Durthu's a beast and wood elf archers are incredible! | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
I don't know if I posted this before but this is a good guide on buying priorities: | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
For WH, I just buy DLC whenever I want to play the specific faction in the DLC.That's in contrast to Civ 6. That game has even more expensive DLC but I was able to upgrade to a complete bundle for less than $40 a couple years ago. Even when they released new DLC, they released a new bundle with the new DLC. | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
On May 08 2022 19:39 Branch.AUT wrote: Yea theres three dlcs for skaven, but I as under the impression that only two contained new units/heroes/lords. Thats why I arrived at 20 bucks. Im gonna give the stock version another shot at one point, maybe I just need to build more catapults. My DLC buying ambitions are put on hold though, for as long as Im getting an Add forced to my screen every time I launch the main menu of the game. These predatory sale tactics don't deserve to be rewarded. I have loads of things left to play on mortal empires, including quite an amount of old worls dlc contet that I picked up years ago. Y'know back when CA was making quality games, not selling buggy beta builds for full price and putting adds inside the video game. For now Durthu's a beast and wood elf archers are incredible! All three Skaven DLCs give new units, but I'd argue that shadow+blade's units aren't essential for either race and the main thing that's cool about Snikch is that he buffs certain units and has fairly unique campaign mechanics. Although mortars are pretty good and medusas are at least fun to use, but suffer from the fact that there's no reason to ever upgrade from mass t2 archers with DEs. Overall most of the game 2 DLCs are worth it imo at least if you play both factions, I think the only exception would be Nakai vs Wulfhart aka hunter and beast. IIRC Durthu is generally regarded as less powerful than both Drycha as well as sisters, which tells a lot about these factions. | ||
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
On May 09 2022 12:18 Archeon wrote: All three Skaven DLCs give new units, but I'd argue that shadow+blade's units aren't essential for either race and the main thing that's cool about Snikch is that he buffs certain units and has fairly unique campaign mechanics. Although mortars are pretty good and medusas are at least fun to use, but suffer from the fact that there's no reason to ever upgrade from mass t2 archers with DEs. Overall most of the game 2 DLCs are worth it imo at least if you play both factions, I think the only exception would be Nakai vs Wulfhart aka hunter and beast. IIRC Durthu is generally regarded as less powerful than both Drycha as well as sisters, which tells a lot about these factions. I dunno about t2 Delf archers (dark shards?), shades are really strong, and dont become totally useless once they run out of ammo ifyou buy 'em with weapons. And hydras are fairly goos too. Sisters is a DLC Lord, ich think paired with the beastmen. They seem very strong, but Durthu is near invincible. In my current campaign he just roadblocks half of the opponents army. If he's fighting trash stacks like undead or skaven he racks up a bunch of kills too, with that awakening of the wild spell. It's a fun campaign, and very different to regular mortal empires with world roots and forest keeping. | ||
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
On May 09 2022 01:38 andrewlt wrote: Unfortunately, I don't see any complete editions for the WH series. The DLC discounts only go up to 50%, which is annoying because they increased their DLC prices a few times the past few years. Here in the US, the lord packs went from $7.99 to $8.99 then $9.99 recently. At least the faction packs are still $18.99. For WH, I just buy DLC whenever I want to play the specific faction in the DLC.That's in contrast to Civ 6. That game has even more expensive DLC but I was able to upgrade to a complete bundle for less than $40 a couple years ago. Even when they released new DLC, they released a new bundle with the new DLC. A few years back I bought the entirety of tw:wh including all dlcs except norsca for around 50€ which I felt like was a really good deal. I got nearly 400hrs entertainment out of it before I went and got the second game. | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
On May 12 2022 16:48 Branch.AUT wrote: I dunno about t2 Delf archers (dark shards?), shades are really strong, and dont become totally useless once they run out of ammo ifyou buy 'em with weapons. And hydras are fairly goos too. Sisters is a DLC Lord, ich think paired with the beastmen. They seem very strong, but Durthu is near invincible. In my current campaign he just roadblocks half of the opponents army. If he's fighting trash stacks like undead or skaven he racks up a bunch of kills too, with that awakening of the wild spell. It's a fun campaign, and very different to regular mortal empires with world roots and forest keeping. Shades are t2 unless they changed that somewhat recently. They might be t3 in BAs, not sure because I pretty much only played SFO in recent years. You can get the upgraded variants, but honestly there's almost no point because they're 90% about ranged dps + stalk utility and even the melee variants don't really deal with the few matchups that can deal with shades. The solution to problematic stacks (mass shielded heavy cav) is almost always better micro or stalk abuse, but there really isn't a lot that can deal with 19 shades. IIRC Drycha is FLC and she's a bit weaker in early fights than Durthu, but she gets cheaper treemen at t3 which is insanely busted. Sisters are both a lethal lord as well as getting a very strong cheap army and free items, but yes they are DLC and got paired with Throt (Skaven) IIRC. | ||
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
On May 13 2022 17:39 Archeon wrote: Shades are t2 unless they changed that somewhat recently. They might be t3 in BAs, not sure because I pretty much only played SFO in recent years. You can get the upgraded variants, but honestly there's almost no point because they're 90% about ranged dps + stalk utility and even the melee variants don't really deal with the few matchups that can deal with shades. The solution to problematic stacks (mass shielded heavy cav) is almost always better micro or stalk abuse, but there really isn't a lot that can deal with 19 shades. IIRC Drycha is FLC and she's a bit weaker in early fights than Durthu, but she gets cheaper treemen at t3 which is insanely busted. Sisters are both a lethal lord as well as getting a very strong cheap army and free items, but yes they are DLC and got paired with Throt (Skaven) IIRC. In the base game right now playing as Morathi, shades are t3 and shades with dual/great weapons are t4. On t2 dark elves get dark shards with shields, which are also very potent at ranged, but dont stalk und are worse at melee. Their upside is shields which let them trade favourably with other archers. I like the shades with melee weapons because they have pretty low ammo, and vs multiple armies or in siege battles that can become a problem. You are right, drycha is flc. Durthu has strong defensive buffs for tree men on his skill tree. I think they are even harder to kill in durthus army than in drychas. Durthu also reduces upkeep for treemen by 30% and increases their charge bonus. Drycha really only buffs dryads. Durthu has twice the health and does more damage in melee than Drycha. I think Durthu is better than Drycha as a legendary lord and army commander. | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
On May 13 2022 22:26 Branch.AUT wrote: In the base game right now playing as Morathi, shades are t3 and shades with dual/great weapons are t4. On t2 dark elves get dark shards with shields, which are also very potent at ranged, but dont stalk und are worse at melee. Their upside is shields which let them trade favourably with other archers. I like the shades with melee weapons because they have pretty low ammo, and vs multiple armies or in siege battles that can become a problem. You are right, drycha is flc. Durthu has strong defensive buffs for tree men on his skill tree. I think they are even harder to kill in durthus army than in drychas. Durthu also reduces upkeep for treemen by 30% and increases their charge bonus. Drycha really only buffs dryads. Durthu has twice the health and does more damage in melee than Drycha. I think Durthu is better than Drycha as a legendary lord and army commander. My bad about DEs, they slightly changed the tech tree a few DLCs ago and I haven't really played Vanilla DEs since then. Shades are the best units in archer vs archer battles despite not having shields due to the fact that they are the highest dps archers in the game and stalk helps them close the distance to longer ranged archers. Shards with shields do ok vs HEs early on though and are significantly cheaper, so they have their place early on. The problem is more that the ideal DE army is 14 shades + 4 hydras, so 2/3rds of the t4 units and all t5 units are highly useless. And yeah ammo can be a problem, but DEs have an incredible economy and can shit out shades armies like no tomorrow, so usually you aren't forced to fight 1v3s and in 1v2s I usually had enough ammo. Drycha's Treemen and Ancient Treemen get frenzy for free. Drycha can't compete with Durthu in terms of raw fighting power, but has aoe buffs and free summons as well as a much better lore of magic. It's mainly about being able to build treemen into your armies early on though, there really isn't a lot that can deal with treemen at t3, so in that regard she's much stronger than Durthu in early-midgame where Durthu himself is a beast, but his other armies are just normal armies. I might have been wrong about her cost reduction though, I've only played her fairly briefly because the campaign got boring quickly | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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Archeon
3252 Posts
On May 15 2022 11:00 andrewlt wrote: When I played DE years ago, I only made a few all shade stacks. I stuck with my regular composition for most of my armies. I think hydras are DLC that I don't have. Since I only had a few expensive all shade stacks, I went with the shades with great weapons so I needn't bother microing against the few high armor units that made it to melee against them. I'm 99% sure that Hydras are vanilla, Morathi in ME starts with one and she's a Vanilla Lord. You might be mixing them up with Kharybdriss, which is basically an anti-large hydra that lowers morale but in return doesn't get regen and dragon breath. For midgame something like darskhards + hydras or even darkshards + corsairs does perfectly fine, it's just later on that you imo want the additional firepower of shades. Or for quest battles. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
I've played 200+ hours of TW WH3 on my existing desktop i7-9700 CPU and GTX 1660 SUPER and it was decent - not stellar, often dipping down to 30 FPS in larger battles, but it still played OK-ish. Bought a new laptop with an i7 12700H and 3070ti 150W, and it runs buttery smooth at 75FPS+ for about 90s before completely falling off a cliff. The thing is, it doesn't appear that my system is throttling, because CPU and GPU temps both really don't get above 70 C. I tried the new system on Guardians of the Galaxy, as well as trying TW WH2 and neither have issues at all. Tried reinstalling the game, updating drivers, etc. to no avail. The issue appears that the GPU drops to only 30% load or something after the 90s, then perpetually jumps up and back down. Laptop has a MUX switch, but discrete only didn't fix it (but did delay how long until the GPU drops load). Any thoughts? Figured I might post here instead of tech support since it seems specific to this game.... Can't finish a single battle as a result. Audio is completely distorted as well once this happens. https://imgur.com/a/jdzUctC Tried reddit first, but no real responses. https://www.reddit.com/r/techsupport/comments/uqad6i/large_fps_drop_on_new_gaming_laptop_acer_nitro_5/ EDIT: Reinstalling fixed the issue. | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
If you run another game at the same time does it throttle too? Aka is this a performance or software issue? | ||
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
On May 14 2022 09:39 Archeon wrote: Drycha's Treemen and Ancient Treemen get frenzy for free. Drycha can't compete with Durthu in terms of raw fighting power, but has aoe buffs and free summons as well as a much better lore of magic. It's mainly about being able to build treemen into your armies early on though, there really isn't a lot that can deal with treemen at t3, so in that regard she's much stronger than Durthu in early-midgame where Durthu himself is a beast, but his other armies are just normal armies. I might have been wrong about her cost reduction though, I've only played her fairly briefly because the campaign got boring quickly Frenzy is nice to have, sure. It matters at the beginning, but in the hard battlea, wgere facin 3-4 armies it drops off due to the >50% leadership. As far as recruiting them goes, I doubt that recruiting at t3 matters much, since at that stage the wood elf economy can't sustain a meaningful amount of treemen. With durthu's bonus to upkeep that might change. Probably the best way to go is start with drycha, und confed durthu early to maximize the treemen potential. Early game's gona be tricky without waystalker/gladewatchers to carry the armies. I finished my durthu campaign now, it was immense fun, but the oak of ages victory condition was quite easy compared to morathi campaign. With the new set of changes is anybody still/again playing the third game? Everytime I try I get immediatly turned away by the cartoony-super saturated color palette of the game | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21482 Posts
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
On May 22 2022 01:01 Gorsameth wrote: I have no interest in the WH3 campaign, not touching it until the eventual Mortal Empires release. I understand completely. What are your thoughts on the graphics changee, mainly the very bright and saturated colors, between two and three? | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21482 Posts
On May 22 2022 02:05 Branch.AUT wrote: I don't have a problem with it, but I don't have the greatest PC so my graphics are turned way the hell down anyway.I understand completely. What are your thoughts on the graphics changee, mainly the very bright and saturated colors, between two and three? | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On May 22 2022 02:05 Branch.AUT wrote: I understand completely. What are your thoughts on the graphics changee, mainly the very bright and saturated colors, between two and three? Same reaction to the Diablo3 and Civ 5/6 brouhaha. Being able to tell things apart on screen is the most important thing to my aging eyes. | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
On May 21 2022 23:33 Branch.AUT wrote: Frenzy is nice to have, sure. It matters at the beginning, but in the hard battlea, wgere facin 3-4 armies it drops off due to the >50% leadership. As far as recruiting them goes, I doubt that recruiting at t3 matters much, since at that stage the wood elf economy can't sustain a meaningful amount of treemen. With durthu's bonus to upkeep that might change. Probably the best way to go is start with drycha, und confed durthu early to maximize the treemen potential. Early game's gona be tricky without waystalker/gladewatchers to carry the armies. I finished my durthu campaign now, it was immense fun, but the oak of ages victory condition was quite easy compared to morathi campaign. With the new set of changes is anybody still/again playing the third game? Everytime I try I get immediatly turned away by the cartoony-super saturated color palette of the game With WEs you neither need a lot of armies nor do you need a ton of treemen in early armies, a few are enough to make battles trivial. And we're talking about a 90 LS unit, they don't drop under half easily so frenzy imo stays relevant all game long. But yes they are both very easy campaigns. On May 22 2022 04:50 andrewlt wrote: Same reaction to the Diablo3 and Civ 5/6 brouhaha. Being able to tell things apart on screen is the most important thing to my aging eyes. I really didn't like the graphical switch from d2 to d3. Mainly because d2 had somewhat of a horror atmosphere and that got lost quite a bit with the new graphics style (also with a lot of details and mechanics). I don't mind the switch in TWWH though, it's mainly on the overworld where graphics matter less to me than in battles and I think the world looks more alive and clearly defined with it. So while I'm somewhat undecided on the UI the overworld is imo a good change graphically. I think I'll give this another shot when they fix that units forget orders all the time. A lot of the changes imo go in the right direction, but there are so many minor elements that need some work and I really don't like the ranged power creep the DLC team is introducing again. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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Archeon
3252 Posts
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Branch.AUT
Austria853 Posts
I really liked the semi realistic look of warhammer2. | ||
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Latham
9555 Posts
It will be on the 23rd of AUGUST 2022. Make sure to sign up for it via the beta opt-in through steam. The map will also be huge, and they have NOT ruled out the possibility of adding new lands to it, such as Ind and Kuresh (and maybe even Nippon) + Show Spoiler [BEEG IMAGE] + ![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/7w1iem77q1791.png) Also in a recent dev video they fucked up and showed the names of the factions of the 1st DLC. We'll be getting: + Show Spoiler [names and factions] + Valkia the Bloody commanding the Legion of the Gorequeen for Khorne Azazel leading the Esctatic Legion in the name of Slaanesh Festus the Leechlord with his Fecundities Legion spreading the word and love of Papa Nurgle Vilitch the Curseling and his Puppets of Misrule executing the Great Plan for Tzeentch | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
4 faction + Show Spoiler + From what little I know about warhammer Valkia was to be expected. All of them are mortal and 3/4 are daemon princes, which makes me wonder if we'll get Mortal Champion generic Lords for the daemons and some kind of ascension mechanic similar to what we have in place for heralds. Which would make sense for a WoC rework anyways, so it shouldn't be hard to port over. But I suppose the curseling makes this somewhat unlikely. They also said that performance is going to be worse than WH2 ME due to having more factions, but they'll look for ways to improve that. And lots of minor reworks both of factions and lores, with predictably broken results at the moment, as Legend showed with his bray shaman vs large scale Khorne army. But it's going to be a beta, so hopefully there is going to be a lot of patching. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
New dynamic end-game scenarios: randomised mid- to late-game challenges we’re introducing to challenge the late-game steamroll—where the player is so powerful that there’s little-to-no challenge left and less of a reason to complete the campaign. Think Greenskin invasions or resurgences of the undead, as a few examples… I read this as they will turn the 5-10 hour late game mop up into an extra 50-100 hour tedious slog by magically spawning bullshit armies out of nowhere to target the player's undefended settlements forcing you to rebuild everything to have income. CA has always had problems creating challenges in a fair and fun way. All 4x games cheat in higher difficulties but giving the AI huge handicaps in games like Civ still feels fair because even with all the production and income bonuses, the AI still has to play the same game as the player. The way CA does it feels like a total asspull. It's magically spawning armies and AI ganging up on the player in a lorebreaking, immersion-killing manner and other such nonsense. I really want a sandbox experience where I can paint the map at my own pace. Don't want CA hellbent on challenging players who exploit everything that can be exploited then complain that the game is too easy. | ||
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Latham
9555 Posts
On July 15 2022 08:59 Archeon wrote: Thanks for the update Latham. Does that mean that we get a + Show Spoiler + 4 faction + Show Spoiler + From what little I know about warhammer Valkia was to be expected. All of them are mortal and 3/4 are daemon princes, which makes me wonder if we'll get Mortal Champion generic Lords for the daemons and some kind of ascension mechanic similar to what we have in place for heralds. Which would make sense for a WoC rework anyways, so it shouldn't be hard to port over. But I suppose the curseling makes this somewhat unlikely. They also said that performance is going to be worse than WH2 ME due to having more factions, but they'll look for ways to improve that. And lots of minor reworks both of factions and lores, with predictably broken results at the moment, as Legend showed with his bray shaman vs large scale Khorne army. But it's going to be a beta, so hopefully there is going to be a lot of patching. 1st DLC will be focused on the monogod factions of Chaos. So expect all 4 of them to receive something, maybe even along with Chaos Undivided. For example, Chaos Ponies are gonna get fixed and be proper big warhorses, visually bigger than what Elves and Reikland can field. + Show Spoiler [My speculation is:] + Since it's gonna focus on all 4 factions I think you can expect a more balanced, mixed roster of mortal/deamons to come to the monogod factions. It'll be a whole lot less work to just reskin chaos knights / chaos warriors than model ~4 completely new units for all of them. For specialized, signature units that are lacking in the monogod factions like Toad Dragons and Plague Ogres for Nurgle... I'd expect to see those in head-to-head DLCs (for example Nurgle vs. Tzeentch; Slaanesh vs Khorne) just like we got in the head-to-head Warhammer II DLCs. TLDR: In the 1st DLC expect more mortal units in monogod factions to fill out the rosters; the juicy missing monsters will come in head-to-head DLCs in the future. | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
According to reddit and the faction icons that got leaked these are going to be WoC factions. How much of the daemon rosters are going to be part of them is everybody's guess I suppose. Similarly Belakor is going to be a WoC faction, but likely with access to a lot of daemonic units. On July 15 2022 14:58 andrewlt wrote: This worries me. I read this as they will turn the 5-10 hour late game mop up into an extra 50-100 hour tedious slog by magically spawning bullshit armies out of nowhere to target the player's undefended settlements forcing you to rebuild everything to have income. CA has always had problems creating challenges in a fair and fun way. All 4x games cheat in higher difficulties but giving the AI huge handicaps in games like Civ still feels fair because even with all the production and income bonuses, the AI still has to play the same game as the player. The way CA does it feels like a total asspull. It's magically spawning armies and AI ganging up on the player in a lorebreaking, immersion-killing manner and other such nonsense. I really want a sandbox experience where I can paint the map at my own pace. Don't want CA hellbent on challenging players who exploit everything that can be exploited then complain that the game is too easy. 4x games all suffer from the fact that once the player starts snowballing the AI doesn't really fight back anymore. Most players stop playing after the early game or at the latest after the midgame according to polls. So I'm overall in favor of the AI cheating and creating an artificial challenge in mid- and lategame, because I'd rather have an asynchronous challenge that makes me feel like I'm smart when I'm winning than an even situation that makes me feel like an idiot when I'm loosing. If I want the latter I can play PvP. I'd much rather have magic BS armies than continuous restrictions like massive supply lines, public order penalties and the AI ganging up on me when they have every reason to defend their capital. I also think that the strength of WH lies in it's battles and the campaign map is more or less there to add some context and provide you with cool battles and the game sucks hard at the latter part, so I don't mind making the AI a bit OP if it helps facilitate more interesting wars. But naturally this should be customizable to some extend and I hope there are going to be ways to disable these considering the general feedback to the old chaos invasion and RoC. Stellaris also has magical bs armies in the lategame, but it works quite nicely. In Stellaris you can customize their strength and appearance dates, so let's hope CA has learned that lesson. I also think that CA struggles to make the AI follow rules that they can communicate reasonably. Asynchronous challenge is something I want for the game, but the AIs limits still need to be understandable and killing armies needs to feel like it does something. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
On July 15 2022 14:58 andrewlt wrote: This worries me. I read this as they will turn the 5-10 hour late game mop up into an extra 50-100 hour tedious slog by magically spawning bullshit armies out of nowhere to target the player's undefended settlements forcing you to rebuild everything to have income. CA has always had problems creating challenges in a fair and fun way. All 4x games cheat in higher difficulties but giving the AI huge handicaps in games like Civ still feels fair because even with all the production and income bonuses, the AI still has to play the same game as the player. The way CA does it feels like a total asspull. It's magically spawning armies and AI ganging up on the player in a lorebreaking, immersion-killing manner and other such nonsense. I really want a sandbox experience where I can paint the map at my own pace. Don't want CA hellbent on challenging players who exploit everything that can be exploited then complain that the game is too easy. I dont think ive even completed a single mortal empire campaign due to how tedious and unchallenging it is once you've killed the major players | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On July 16 2022 02:15 Erasme wrote: I dont think ive even completed a single mortal empire campaign due to how tedious and unchallenging it is once you've killed the major players I try to complete all of mine and my experience is that the late game BS makes it way, way more tedious. Think about realm divide in Shogun, the senate backstab in Rome 2, and the old RoC invasions in Mortal Empires. The initial chaos invasion in Mortal Empires is what I'm really worried about. It basically tied up almost all of the player's armies into chasing and fighting 10-12 magically spawning armies every 10 turns. So you're left with maybe 1-4 armies to fight the regular AI factions and slowly make your way across the map and complete objectives, all while fighting so many battles against Chaos every few turns. You don't even make progress killing them since they keep spawning. It made me even less motivated to finish a campaign compared to the normal 4x mop up. It's a classic example of good intentions having the opposite results of what was intended. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
It was fun for one game, tethering on the brink of destruction over and over, but unless I plan on "defeating chaos" i don't bother with it | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
Now, once Archaon's stack is eliminated the entire invasion is over. The first time that happened, he walked into an ambush by himself against 2-3 of my stacks near a gated settlement. The second time, he, alongside a 2nd stack that was no longer full strength, did a suicide attack against 3 dwarven stacks defending a settlement. I do hope these things can be deactivated. Some people like doing as much as possible every turn in a campaign. Some don't. It's nice letting people do a sandbox game at their own pace instead of the game forcing a certain pace. The nature of mortal empires/immortal empires is just different compared to other 4x games like Civ. It's just too big a sandbox and I think they should just let players play in their little corner if they choose to do so. It's not like other 4x games where you are expected to interact with everybody in the entire map in a single game. It's just too big for that. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
On July 16 2022 07:43 Erasme wrote: You can deactivate chaos invasion, unless you're playing as norsca i believe It was fun for one game, tethering on the brink of destruction over and over, but unless I plan on "defeating chaos" i don't bother with it Just become the chaos invasion  Playing as chaos in TWW was something I really liked to do now and then. The simplicity of just setting the world on fire, not having to deal with trade, politics and all that bullshit. Just go about and raze everything. Pure fun. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/06n2g7lnfqb91.png) The full release map for Immortal Empires and the faction start locations. Super excited. I know I'm going to play Bretonnia first because they're my favorite faction but I'm hung up on which faction leader to pick first. | ||
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Latham
9555 Posts
On July 16 2022 11:45 Vindicare605 wrote: The full release map for Immortal Empires and the faction start locations. Super excited. I know I'm going to play Bretonnia first because they're my favorite faction but I'm hung up on which faction leader to pick first. Go to Brazil and play the maracas with the local lizardmen. By far the most unique start for Brets. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
On July 16 2022 21:05 Latham wrote: Go to Brazil and play the maracas with the local lizardmen. By far the most unique start for Brets. Repanse is in the Southlands Thunderdome so that looks super fun and King Leoncour has a very interesting start as well. N'Kari is to the south east and Belekor is to the immediate north. The previous minor faction orcs have been replaced with Grom the Paunch and there's no more Alberic to confederate either since he's all the way down in Brazil playing the maracas. Honestly the Fay Enchantress has the least interesting start since for her the only thing that's really changed is that Grom starts right next to her. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21482 Posts
On July 17 2022 00:12 Erasme wrote: yes, it makes sense if your spreading factions out more to move them away since they literally spawn next to eachother. am i blind or they decided to split the von carsteins ? | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
On July 17 2022 00:12 Erasme wrote: am i blind or they decided to split the von carsteins ? Mannfred is down in the Southlands now, Castle Drakenhoff has been given over to Vlad and Isabella. Mannfred, Volkmar and Arkhan the Black are now all doing a "dedicated factions" campaign where they are all competing over the "Books of Nagash." We don't know for sure how that all works yet, but that's apparently what they are all about now. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On July 17 2022 01:14 Vindicare605 wrote: Mannfred is down in the Southlands now, Castle Drakenhoff has been given over to Vlad and Isabella. Mannfred, Volkmar and Arkhan the Black are now all doing a "dedicated factions" campaign where they are all competing over the "Books of Nagash." We don't know for sure how that all works yet, but that's apparently what they are all about now. Mannfred, Volkmar and Arkhan are all next to each other now too. Are they going to be doing more of that for the factions that got bundled together? The map is very big and it makes sense for many factions to have mini-campaigns with their neighbors. | ||
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Latham
9555 Posts
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tww3-introducing-the-coc/ | ||
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Archeon
3252 Posts
Let's hope spawns and aspiring champions will see some buffs. | ||
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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Latham
9555 Posts
Dude talks about turn times very early on. He says around 20s, probably max 25s. Look like good changes in general. I like what I see. Praise be to Rich Aldridge and his team for their work in slowly fixing the absolute shitstate that was WH3 upon release. That team has moved on to work on an unannounced new title and Aldridge and his team will now be managing WH3 & all its future DLCs. That also means implementing changes from the last few WH2 DLCs into WH3. | ||
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Latham
9555 Posts
19GB additional download over Steam for a grand total of 103.2GBs of space on your disc | ||
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Sermokala
United States13799 Posts
I'm hugely happy with warriors of chaos. I wish there was a total war style game that expanded exclusively on warband style play where you start out with and can only recruit weak dudes but slowly evolve them over a campaign. The bloody winged lady has a lovely campaign style. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/vHTdn6k.png) I see I will have some content to play with.... | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
On August 26 2022 04:20 andrewlt wrote: Damn, I'm going to have to ask you if I have DLC questions then. I looked at the wiki and the information is not complete. Yeah, I got some DLC that was non-obvious to get (promo codes from GW stores, which are not present in my country so I had to ask friends from other countries to get them for me, some obscure links from articles on their website etc.). | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
Looking at the main fan wiki, the DE roster nicely lists which DLC every unit comes from and if they are available to all DE factions in general or if they are specific to any faction. The Skaven roster doesn't, and that race has a lot more DLC units. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
On August 26 2022 05:35 andrewlt wrote: I think I have all the free ones that are available to download on Steam and even the ones for signing up for something on CA's website. I don't have any of the GW physical store ones. It's the paid ones that I might have some questions on. I have some race packs but I've never bought any of the lord packs before. I likely will buy a few of them for WH3. Looking at the main fan wiki, the DE roster nicely lists which DLC every unit comes from and if they are available to all DE factions in general or if they are specific to any faction. The Skaven roster doesn't, and that race has a lot more DLC units. Well, for Skaven there's The Prophet and the Warlock (Clan Skryre), The Shadow and the Blade (Clan Eshin) and The Twisted and the Twilight (Clan Moulder). They do have plenty of DLC assigned to them and all of it comes with new units. | ||
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Latham
9555 Posts
I started immediately as Franz and got my ass handed to me. Elector counts are getting exterminated left & right like pests, I keep getting raided by Bel'akor every ~20 turns, vampires are kicking everyone's asses, ogres & greenskins from the south, Durthru back to his reconquista of the Old World and has a massive genocidal hard-on for men of the Empire. I piece the Empire back together BARELY by turn 100, and the end-game scenario of a massive WAAAAAGH kicks in. I get my bogos binted from every direction, in slow motion. Kislev never formed properly, Katarina never even conquered Praag. Bretonnia had me fighting battles for them and even then had their shit kicked in by Slaanesh, Norsca & Grom. Dwarves went extinct from vamps to the west & greenskins to the south. 10/10 experience, will do another session of this cock&ball torture later this week. | ||
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Rufus Dupres
Germany1071 Posts
Have been playing Volkmar so far only, luckily was able to beat Mannfred pretty early before he became a threat, he lost his army when trying to conquer Oreon, so I was able to sneak in and capture his capital. Thorek gots bodied by Khalida and Tiktaq´to declared war on me out of nowwhere while I was trying to secure Arabia and defeat the Ogres. Without even seeing them, have received war declarations from Itza, Oxyotl and Kroq-Gar because why not. The new mechanics of sealing the books of Nagash to get access to the units/items which you would receive after confederating one of the elector counts is quite nice, but really hard to get them except for the one which is located next to you. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On August 26 2022 10:36 Manit0u wrote: Well, for Skaven there's The Prophet and the Warlock (Clan Skryre), The Shadow and the Blade (Clan Eshin) and The Twisted and the Twilight (Clan Moulder). They do have plenty of DLC assigned to them and all of it comes with new units. That one I know at least. What I'm curious about is whether the DLC units are exclusive to that DLC's faction or if they are available to the other ones. Like I think the Kharibdyss and Sisters of Avelorn, for example, are available to all DE and HE factions respectively. Some are, some aren't. Wish there was a good list that details everything. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10632 Posts
As Kholek every non Order faction (including Orcs and Skaven) plain loves me for some reason, it's ridiculously easy. I just roflstomp thru Cathay feeding my Vassals waiting to gain enough favor to Vassalize/Buy more Vassals. Snikch was a bit harder/more annoying at the start because everyone around you hates you (and public order was more of an issue, somehow). Once I got the money for a decent second army it was basically won (I also beat the Vampire crysis) and still sit on my "delete faction X" button. It's just boring map painting at this point anyway. For some reason all the Chaos factions love me, Nurgle is my best friend, I guess they really liked that i killed all the Cathay factions and the Vampire near the Maw? Btw: The AI doesn't use sealanes, I actually did a failed invasion of Lustria (1 army wasn't enough ) but could just sail away again ^^. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
So the AI doesn't have some weird code to make them gang up on the human player anymore? Or is it just your two factions? It was a huge problem in WH3 earlier. It was a problem in WH2, especially evidenced by my last game, but it was an even bigger problem in WH3 earlier. | ||
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Latham
9555 Posts
The elector count mechanic is a real piece of shit. I've even seen people say to outright ignore it and just assume that you'll always be in the red with the negative multipliers. Just go to war with the elector counts and consume them outright, instead of painfully waiting for 3-4 imperial authority and 10 fealty to do it. It just takes waaaay too long this way. Early on it's very hard to amass 2000 to resolve some of the issues in a way to get +1 authority, while later on you're drowning in it (15K+++) without actually having anything to spend it on. Not to mention you're surrounded by traitors and autism from every direction, which does its hardest to put you in the negative authority. You should be done with the secessionists rebels by turn 7 and secured your 1st province. After that you have a choice of going after beastmen in middenland & helping Toddbringer (because he WILL get his shit kicked in by both beastmen & Festus) or securing Marienburg (the capital) and then moving to middenland. If you leave Marienburg alone, Bretonia will surely capture it which later on will bite you in the ass (Louen WILL want the whole province, and if you possess the other 2 minor settlements, will declare war on you) but delaying helping middenland might just make you too late, and them wiped out. Khazrak isn't a very hard opponent but Festus is. As expected of a champion of Nurgle, he is a blight on the land and is very hard to remove completely in a quick and orderly fashion. He almost certainly will have destroyed Hochland by now and maybe even helped Khazrak by razing Middenheim at this point. After that you go after either Drycha or Vamps. Drycha is much less of a threat but can be on an expanding spree, and other Empire electors are her neighbors so might be wise to snip her at the bud. Vamps will have consolidated their power in both Drakenhoff and Templehoff and will start to expand into your elector counts. I left the most outward elector counts like Ostland, Nordland & Ostermark for last because I wanted to delay meeting Azazel & other demon factions for as long as possible. Once you actually DO meet them, prepare for an endless stream of raiders from them, into your lands. Throgg, Wulfric, Azazel, Bel'akor will all visit you from that moment onwards very often. So how do you actually defend and push forward? 1 good army on Franz and a metric fuckton of crapstacks consisting of archer/spearmen/swordsmen armies. IMO you need to get Altdorf to Tier 4 quickly for the artillery it provides. Helstorm Rocket Batteries can decimate advancing armies. Then you help Kislev or Kostaltyn (or both) stabilize, pray to whatever God you believe in that Louen, Durthru and the Dwarves wont get any stupid ideas and help them expand while swallowing more elector counts. You want to give those factions any newly sacked/captured towns so they'll be a buffer between you and the hell that is outside (Greenskins, Norsca, Demons/Warriors of Chaos). Just make sure you have 1 good/decent army in every direction and 2-3 crapstacks. Push hard in 1 direction to make sure you raze/sack/capture 70 settlements for the long victory condition with Franz. On August 30 2022 00:30 andrewlt wrote: So the AI doesn't have some weird code to make them gang up on the human player anymore? Or is it just your two factions? It was a huge problem in WH3 earlier. It was a problem in WH2, especially evidenced by my last game, but it was an even bigger problem in WH3 earlier. Player bias is still there, but if like me, you play an "order" faction, the other order factions will generally leave you alone. Expect every "evil" faction to declare eternal war on you at first sight, though. You also get a penalty for being high up in strength ranking & owning territories. It's called "great power" bias and some factions will hate you for it, others will leave you alone, hoping you will leave them alone. Its just that there is more room on the map now, so everyone will have enemies and may not have time to send stack after stack to your lands every 10 turns. Or you're just too far away. It was particularly outrageous in WH3 campaign because you had norsca + all 4 monogod demons all gunning for your ass. Maybe even with greenskins & ogres snipping at your heels. In Immortal Empires they are much more spread out and have their own problems to deal with. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
On August 30 2022 04:28 Latham wrote: TLDR Empire hard... It's been a while (years) since I last played Empire. Does that mean you can no longer rely on the tactic of just ignoring the other elector counts? From what I remember from my long campaign victory (don't remember if it was TWW1 or TWW2) is that you just secured 2 full provinces for yourself, protected them etc. and as soon as other counts got pressured too much they just begged you for confederation (and then you had to suffer through the pain of accepting it and disbanding all of their armies) and you won no matter what (either you were the last one alive and recaptured what you had to or you confederated them). | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
Did you give some crapstacks artillery? The Empire has some good artillery. A crapstack with 3-4 pieces of artillery is suddenly a mediocre stack that might acquit themselves pretty well. And the cost is not too high. I'm fairly sure all powerful nations, in past games, get a great power penalty for every race except the Tomb Kings (who love you for it). It still feels like the player gets more of a penalty than comparatively powerful AI factions. Or more penalties in general even before you get THAT powerful. I've seen AI factions spend 10 turns sending stacks to my provinces that they should have no vision whatsoever on. They also know how to avoid every single one of my stacks that is not in ambush stance. This is even though there are better targets nearby. Or worse, even if they are getting their shit pushed in by another AI faction that they could've defended against if all their stacks weren't on their way to my lands. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
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Latham
9555 Posts
On August 30 2022 06:47 Manit0u wrote: It's been a while (years) since I last played Empire. Does that mean you can no longer rely on the tactic of just ignoring the other elector counts? From what I remember from my long campaign victory (don't remember if it was TWW1 or TWW2) is that you just secured 2 full provinces for yourself, protected them etc. and as soon as other counts got pressured too much they just begged you for confederation (and then you had to suffer through the pain of accepting it and disbanding all of their armies) and you won no matter what (either you were the last one alive and recaptured what you had to or you confederated them). Yes, it is different now. That was also the last time I played Franz as well in Warhammer 1, when they'd ask to confed themselves. Now its a lot more convoluted and restricted. You cannot confederate them at all through normal means nowadays. They have a fealty (loyalty) ranking between 1-10 and declare war on YOU if they hit 1, or they ask to confederate if they hit 10 fealty. You gain fealty by solving scripted problems in their favor, spending prestige or giving them back settlements they've lost. Also you kind of can't ignore them anymore, because you lose 1 Imperial Authority for every one elector count that is completely wiped out. You'll be losing growth, control, income, army leadership when you're in the negatives. It's like having to babysit 11 (or was it 12?) temper tantrum-throwing children... On August 30 2022 07:00 andrewlt wrote: Did you give some crapstacks artillery? The Empire has some good artillery. A crapstack with 3-4 pieces of artillery is suddenly a mediocre stack that might acquit themselves pretty well. And the cost is not too high. I'm fairly sure all powerful nations, in past games, get a great power penalty for every race except the Tomb Kings (who love you for it). It still feels like the player gets more of a penalty than comparatively powerful AI factions. Or more penalties in general even before you get THAT powerful. I've seen AI factions spend 10 turns sending stacks to my provinces that they should have no vision whatsoever on. They also know how to avoid every single one of my stacks that is not in ambush stance. This is even though there are better targets nearby. Or worse, even if they are getting their shit pushed in by another AI faction that they could've defended against if all their stacks weren't on their way to my lands. Yeah, not all of them had artillery, but a few did. Either Helstrom rockets or great cannons to tear down walls/gateways so I don't have to wait for siege towers or rams. The AI seemed to cheat and dodge mortar shots like an MF-er. The other thing you mention is exactly player bias. Even though they have a threat near their own cities/land they will send a stack or 2 to you, the player, just to fuck with you, even if they could potentially be wiped out or lose settlements. They also know where to move while you're pursuing them just enough so you can't catch up to them while in raiding stance or forced march. It's like playing whack-a-mole. I made some Huntsmen generals, picked perks that give them +5% campaign movement range (they have multiple) and gave them the Ancillaries that give a further +6/7/8% campaign movement boost. These huntsmen generals were my border guards who made sure I wasn't raided to death. And it goes without saying I needed walls in every minor settlement to make sure they weren't sacked every week >_> 1 thing I regret is not knowing how to use riflemen or gunpowder units in general. I use archers or crossbowmen because they can shoot over my own troops. I need to watch some youtube tutorials on how to make crossfire killing zones with riflemen, thunderers etc. Another thing not to do is get into defensive or military alliances with the AIs. They will drag you into conflicts you have no desire to be in and naturally the fucking newly discovered enemies will send stack your way, half-way around the world. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
I dislike the whack-a-mole with forced march too. Playing as Vampire Coast, your faction leader and the 4 legendary admirals you can hire have ships that can construct buildings that provide up to 30% campaign movement speed. With that, taskmaster (5%), sea legs (5%) and an ancillary (5%), I can usually but not always catch them. Other generals without the 30% from the ship aren't so lucky. I always grab the first blue line skill the moment I hit level 2 but I don't want to invest until the end of the line for an additional 5 or 8%? I build walls in every settlement too. I'm terrible with gunpowder units but they can be devastating if they actually have line of fire. They're terrible on sieges as the attacker too because they have LoF issues against the units on the walls a lot of times. And they're useless against the ones behind the walls. And I don't want another unit I have to babysit to get inside the holes in the walls. I end up focus firing on big monster units and flyers a lot. Even Karl Franz stood no chance. And it was hilarious how fast Morathi dropped. On August 30 2022 16:56 Manit0u wrote: I imagine the game is a bit too big and complex to have really good AI. After all, creating AI for the game is one of the hardest things and difficulty of creating one grows exponentially the more complexity and different systems/mechanics you have in the game. Then there's the effort of creating 2 completely different AIs (one for battles, one for campaign) and with so many different factions, each with some unique quirks and abilities the task seems pretty daunting to me. That's a problem with some of the game mechanics. They are too complex for the AI to understand so CA just ends up exempting the AI from it. The elector count mechanics and the loyalty mechanics, for example, provide extremely minor bonuses if you are managing them well but big penalties if you mess them up. It just ends up being an annoyance to the player. The AI, however, can't deal with them so I think they just get exempted from those mechanics. I wish they would stop bothering with systems that are major pains for minor rewards. It doesn't seem like it's for balancing reasons, either. The loyalty mechanic doesn't make Skaven any less OP. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2562 Posts
Just need to abuse mortars and free company militia early on (then switch fcm to handgunners). Key is ground fire, using handguns for flanking and infantry red line upgrades asap and there is not much that can stop them. A basic stack with just a normal general, 2 mortars and 2 handguns can kill so much. Franz is also a beast because Reiksguard with +10 bonus vs large come early and solves the only real problems you have even unto lategame. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
The best thing is that I only have 1 army and it's not even a full stack most of the time (between 14-18 units). I'm also true to Khorne and am not recruiting any sorcerers so no magic for me. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On September 02 2022 06:14 Manit0u wrote: Valkia the Bloody is so much fun. People declare war on me, I go raze their settlements, they sue for peace, I refuse. Do they demand 10000 gold for peace while you are about to raze their last settlement? | ||
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Sermokala
United States13799 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
On September 03 2022 01:46 Sermokala wrote: The warriors of chaos campaign is extremly easy compared to others but its a lot of fast paced fun. They can be done in a small fraction of the time of a regular campaign. Which is hilarious because it was the total opposite in Mortal Empires. Chaos was a nightmarish slog that you had to cheese to grind through on the higher difficulties. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
On September 03 2022 00:12 andrewlt wrote: Do they demand 10000 gold for peace while you are about to raze their last settlement? Of course, but you always decline and just do your thing. I only allow peace/non-aggression against some annoying factions that I don't want to bother chasing around (Skaven for example). | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/tOInInP.jpg) Super stoked about how fun Karl Franz's campaign is right now. This battle was a desperate attempt to rescue Middenland from certain destruction by Festus (thus wrecking my Imperial authority) and the actual battle itself was so fun. This decisive battle effectively ruined Festus as a threat and allowed me to stabilize and grow my campaign from there to focus on Vlad who was also being a problem elsewhere on the map. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10632 Posts
.Skaven/Snikch run. He starts in a 4 province region (just owning one settlement at first)... Once you get that region a bit developed, Cathay is your oyster. While after some time just about everyone around me declared war (except my dear chaos boys), nothing ever felt even remotely dangerous (including the Vampire Crysis). WoC/Kholek: WoC is plain broken, the Vassal mechanic is just op. I totally suck at WoC/Hordes and did tons of errors, still burnt/vassalised the world from northern cathay thru the empire into nagarrond, while floating 100k Gold... All that stops you is boredom. But is it just me or is WoC movement range on ca Skrolk: Got smoked (after a lazy, meh i autoresolve and rebuild my army) start. He actually starts with 2 settlements and one free to conquer to complete his province (if you manually fight it ). Will do it soon again and be a bit less reckless, Itza and the other Lizardmen are no friendly neighbours. His start feels pretty similar to ME, so its probably hard for the first 20 turns but once you sent Itza packing you just won.Scarsnick: Just started yesterday and it seems to be a fun and challenging start. Your surrounded by 2 Dwarf LL's, and a Skaven LL, the Dwarfs willl declare fast on you. I knew that you could turn Goblins into powerhouses, I didn't realize just how much stronger they get from the Techtree and Scarsnicks passives while costing like 50-80 upkeep. It's plain fun so far . It's pretty hilarious when your standard gobbos stack up over 100 kills per battle, the only thing i feel I lack is hero killing power. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16055 Posts
![[image loading]](https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1814412017695821861/CCA270F6B9756E9A66F2CA259FEB630EA5BA3FB1/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false) Woah was not expecting this early game on my fresh caravan army. Wasn't expecting to win it either. | ||
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3806 Posts
But bumping mainly because the new trailer is probably the best Total War WH cinematic they've released to date. I got goosebumps watching it. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
On September 06 2022 18:36 Velr wrote: It's pretty hilarious when your standard gobbos stack up over 100 kills per battle, the only thing i feel I lack is hero killing power. I find gobbo heroes to be decent at that. Put them on wolves or spiders. They do decent damage and are hard to kill because of their very high defense and dodges. Their active abilities with AoE debuffs also help your army quite a bit. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21482 Posts
On April 24 2023 12:34 Jerubaal wrote: Its been a while since I played the campaign but there should be an opportunity to stop an AI faction if they get 4 before you do. I just don't remember if you get a popup to fight them if they try to finish or if you need to move to the Forge yourself to do so.Question about the AI in the Ursun Campaign: I'M only playing on normal and Cathay was speedrunning. I didn't think I was ready to take on the First set of portals so I missed that. Now Cathay Has all 4 DeMoN Souls and I need one more. The portals have closed for now, so I'll have to wait Another few turns. Do I need to send an army to kill Cathay? If I go quickly can I grab the 4th Soul and finish the campaign? Or am I boned? google should have the answer ^^ | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17225 Posts
On April 24 2023 18:35 Gorsameth wrote: Its been a while since I played the campaign but there should be an opportunity to stop an AI faction if they get 4 before you do. I just don't remember if you get a popup to fight them if they try to finish or if you need to move to the Forge yourself to do so. google should have the answer ^^ It does: You get a prompt from the advisor letting you know you're about to lose, and he gives you the option to go straight into the forge of souls to get to ursun before them, giving you a chance to win. If you decline to go or fail to stop the other faction, you lose and the campaign ends. If you win the enemy leader is wounded for 15 turns giving you a chance to catch up. | ||
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Jerubaal
United States7684 Posts
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