On September 05 2011 15:13 Doodsmack wrote: Jibba man, your standards for video games are way too high LOL. At first I was sorta taking your criticisms seriously but then you said GTA4 didn't have a good story so I knew you're probably one of those people who points out the negativity in everything. Otherwise you wouldn't point out that GTA4's story is only good for video games, as if it's not incredibly obvious that books and movies have the potential to tell much more powerful stories than video games.
It's the exact opposite. Good writers just don't work on video games yet. That's why someone like Metzen can be considered a premier writer in the world of video games. As for the rest, I think I'm better off with standards that are too high than the other way around, broseidon.
As much as I love all Blizzard games and Metzen (cool guy), I think lately, their game stories (Starcraft 2 so far) have become too cliche, I mean, like, Prophecy? Chosen One, Impending doom and one person to stop it? Fighting against all odds? Starcraft 2 story was really poor.
KOTOR's writing was superb, Witcher games have great stories (but then, they are inspired by a real book series, so), ME series have a great story with super, super presentation. Assassin's Creed 2 had a mindblowing story (I really enjoyed the ties to realworld events and things, like religions and prophets, and corporations)
On September 05 2011 15:13 Doodsmack wrote: Jibba man, your standards for video games are way too high LOL. At first I was sorta taking your criticisms seriously but then you said GTA4 didn't have a good story so I knew you're probably one of those people who points out the negativity in everything. Otherwise you wouldn't point out that GTA4's story is only good for video games, as if it's not incredibly obvious that books and movies have the potential to tell much more powerful stories than video games.
It's the exact opposite. Good writers just don't work on video games yet. That's why someone like Metzen can be considered a premier writer in the world of video games. As for the rest, I think I'm better off with standards that are too high than the other way around, broseidon.
KOTOR's writing was superb, Witcher games have great stories (but then, they are inspired by a real book series, so), ME series have a great story with super, super presentation. Assassin's Creed 2 had a mindblowing story
Pfffffftahahahahahahahahah
The fact that you not only mention one, but TWO Bioware games' story just nullifies your entire post. Take a gander at the following chart. No, Bioware games did not start sucking after DA2 -- they have ALWAYS been the same.
That's exactly why Witcher 2's story was good, it was based off of a real writers. Assassin's Creed 2? I'm laughing even harder. I mean yeah, it caught me off guard and was actually pretty nice before it took a turn at Main St. and Banana's at the end of the first one. Magical Orbs that show artifacts around the worlds? Everyone you knew was secretly Assassins? LOLALIENS? I'll repeat it again, FUCKING ALIENS? Time traveling or some shit now? The story is just pants on head retarded.
I know it's slightly off topic, and I know I said Deus Ex had a good story, but I meant it as Jibba said. It's good in terms of a video game story. Which, to quote the good ol' Noob Effect video, comparing the best book writers to the best video game writers is like comparing Kobe Bryant's penis to that of a poorly endowed tit mouse.
On September 05 2011 15:13 Doodsmack wrote: Jibba man, your standards for video games are way too high LOL. At first I was sorta taking your criticisms seriously but then you said GTA4 didn't have a good story so I knew you're probably one of those people who points out the negativity in everything. Otherwise you wouldn't point out that GTA4's story is only good for video games, as if it's not incredibly obvious that books and movies have the potential to tell much more powerful stories than video games.
It's the exact opposite. Good writers just don't work on video games yet. That's why someone like Metzen can be considered a premier writer in the world of video games. As for the rest, I think I'm better off with standards that are too high than the other way around, broseidon.
KOTOR's writing was superb, Witcher games have great stories (but then, they are inspired by a real book series, so), ME series have a great story with super, super presentation. Assassin's Creed 2 had a mindblowing story
Pfffffftahahahahahahahahah
The fact that you not only mention one, but TWO Bioware games' story just nullifies your entire post. Take a gander at the following chart. No, Bioware games did not start sucking after DA2 -- they have ALWAYS been the same.
That's exactly why Witcher 2's story was good, it was based off of a real writers. Assassin's Creed 2? I'm laughing even harder. I mean yeah, it caught me off guard and was actually pretty nice before it took a turn at Main St. and Banana's at the end of the first one. Magical Orbs that show artifacts around the worlds? Everyone you knew was secretly Assassins? LOLALIENS? I'll repeat it again, FUCKING ALIENS? Time traveling or some shit now? The story is just pants on head retarded.
I know it's slightly off topic, and I know I said Deus Ex had a good story, but I meant it as Jibba said. It's good in terms of a video game story. Which, to quote the good ol' Noob Effect video, comparing the best book writers to the best video game writers is like comparing Kobe Bryant's penis to that of a poorly endowed tit mouse.
+1
Also, I'd like to add that The Witcher series' narrative has always fallen apart the more you played it. This is true for The Witcher 2 in particular, which starts out very strong and ends up wiping its nose at us.
In any case, I don't think it's fair to compare mediums. The way video game development works it's hard for a writer to perform properly, and even if he does produce truly great material chances are the narrative will still be hindered by the developers' particular design philosophy.
On September 05 2011 15:13 Doodsmack wrote: Jibba man, your standards for video games are way too high LOL. At first I was sorta taking your criticisms seriously but then you said GTA4 didn't have a good story so I knew you're probably one of those people who points out the negativity in everything. Otherwise you wouldn't point out that GTA4's story is only good for video games, as if it's not incredibly obvious that books and movies have the potential to tell much more powerful stories than video games.
It's the exact opposite. Good writers just don't work on video games yet. That's why someone like Metzen can be considered a premier writer in the world of video games. As for the rest, I think I'm better off with standards that are too high than the other way around, broseidon.
KOTOR's writing was superb, Witcher games have great stories (but then, they are inspired by a real book series, so), ME series have a great story with super, super presentation. Assassin's Creed 2 had a mindblowing story
Pfffffftahahahahahahahahah
The fact that you not only mention one, but TWO Bioware games' story just nullifies your entire post. Take a gander at the following chart. No, Bioware games did not start sucking after DA2 -- they have ALWAYS been the same.
Being reductionist is not good critique. There are only a handful of stories that all mediums reuse over and over. That's okay because what makes them interesting is the storytelling, not some bullet points you write down in a spreadsheet. You can break down any story like that, which goes back to my first point.
On September 05 2011 15:13 Doodsmack wrote: Jibba man, your standards for video games are way too high LOL. At first I was sorta taking your criticisms seriously but then you said GTA4 didn't have a good story so I knew you're probably one of those people who points out the negativity in everything. Otherwise you wouldn't point out that GTA4's story is only good for video games, as if it's not incredibly obvious that books and movies have the potential to tell much more powerful stories than video games.
It's the exact opposite. Good writers just don't work on video games yet. That's why someone like Metzen can be considered a premier writer in the world of video games. As for the rest, I think I'm better off with standards that are too high than the other way around, broseidon.
KOTOR's writing was superb, Witcher games have great stories (but then, they are inspired by a real book series, so), ME series have a great story with super, super presentation. Assassin's Creed 2 had a mindblowing story
Pfffffftahahahahahahahahah
The fact that you not only mention one, but TWO Bioware games' story just nullifies your entire post. Take a gander at the following chart. No, Bioware games did not start sucking after DA2 -- they have ALWAYS been the same.
Being reductionist is not good critique. There are only a handful of stories that all mediums reuse over and over. That's okay because what makes them interesting is the storytelling, not some bullet points you write down in a spreadsheet. You can break down any story like that, which goes back to my first point.
You can break down any story to the shit listed in that chart? Did you even read it? Bioware writes the same story for every single one of their games but with slight variations in name and skin. I don't give a fuck about storytelling if I'm playing the same story every single game.
Your point initially was that KOTOR and Mass Effect are well written stories. Anyone who has read a book greater than a 1st grade level laughs at how fucking stupid that is and anyone who has played any amount of their games ever (Kotor, DA:O, Mass Effect, Baldurs Gate, NWN personally) knows that they are all the same fucking story in principle. They are the definition of cliche.
Their name has no place in describing what a good game story is. The likes of Witcher / The Witcher 2 (despite how bad TW2 gets at the end), Deus Ex: HR, System Shock, and so forth are examples of well written game stories. Not Bioware games.
On September 05 2011 15:13 Doodsmack wrote: Jibba man, your standards for video games are way too high LOL. At first I was sorta taking your criticisms seriously but then you said GTA4 didn't have a good story so I knew you're probably one of those people who points out the negativity in everything. Otherwise you wouldn't point out that GTA4's story is only good for video games, as if it's not incredibly obvious that books and movies have the potential to tell much more powerful stories than video games.
It's the exact opposite. Good writers just don't work on video games yet. That's why someone like Metzen can be considered a premier writer in the world of video games. As for the rest, I think I'm better off with standards that are too high than the other way around, broseidon.
KOTOR's writing was superb, Witcher games have great stories (but then, they are inspired by a real book series, so), ME series have a great story with super, super presentation. Assassin's Creed 2 had a mindblowing story
Pfffffftahahahahahahahahah
The fact that you not only mention one, but TWO Bioware games' story just nullifies your entire post. Take a gander at the following chart. No, Bioware games did not start sucking after DA2 -- they have ALWAYS been the same.
Being reductionist is not good critique. There are only a handful of stories that all mediums reuse over and over. That's okay because what makes them interesting is the storytelling, not some bullet points you write down in a spreadsheet. You can break down any story like that, which goes back to my first point.
You can break down any story to the shit listed in that chart? Did you even read it? Bioware writes the same story for every single one of their games but with slight variations in name and skin. I don't give a fuck about storytelling if I'm playing the same story every single game.
Your point initially was that KOTOR and Mass Effect are well written stories. Anyone who has read a book greater than a 1st grade level laughs at how fucking stupid that is and anyone who has played any amount of their games ever (Kotor, DA:O, Mass Effect, Baldurs Gate, NWN personally) knows that they are all the same fucking story in principle. They are the definition of cliche.
Their name has no place in describing what a good game story is. The likes of Witcher / The Witcher 2 (despite how bad TW2 gets at the end), Deus Ex: HR, System Shock, and so forth are examples of well written game stories. Not Bioware games.
Also, I'm Hungry.
Being the same story does not preclude the story from being well written (nor save it from being poorly written, equally) in any particular instance. The story being a cliche or samey does not stop it from having fantastic set pieces or scenarios.
Both The Witcher 2 and Deus Ex: HR fall apart pretty badly toward the end, not only in story but particularly in presentation.
On September 05 2011 15:13 Doodsmack wrote: Jibba man, your standards for video games are way too high LOL. At first I was sorta taking your criticisms seriously but then you said GTA4 didn't have a good story so I knew you're probably one of those people who points out the negativity in everything. Otherwise you wouldn't point out that GTA4's story is only good for video games, as if it's not incredibly obvious that books and movies have the potential to tell much more powerful stories than video games.
It's the exact opposite. Good writers just don't work on video games yet. That's why someone like Metzen can be considered a premier writer in the world of video games. As for the rest, I think I'm better off with standards that are too high than the other way around, broseidon.
KOTOR's writing was superb, Witcher games have great stories (but then, they are inspired by a real book series, so), ME series have a great story with super, super presentation. Assassin's Creed 2 had a mindblowing story
Pfffffftahahahahahahahahah
The fact that you not only mention one, but TWO Bioware games' story just nullifies your entire post. Take a gander at the following chart. No, Bioware games did not start sucking after DA2 -- they have ALWAYS been the same.
Being reductionist is not good critique. There are only a handful of stories that all mediums reuse over and over. That's okay because what makes them interesting is the storytelling, not some bullet points you write down in a spreadsheet. You can break down any story like that, which goes back to my first point.
You can break down any story to the shit listed in that chart? Did you even read it? Bioware writes the same story for every single one of their games but with slight variations in name and skin. I don't give a fuck about storytelling if I'm playing the same story every single game.
Your point initially was that KOTOR and Mass Effect are well written stories. Anyone who has read a book greater than a 1st grade level laughs at how fucking stupid that is and anyone who has played any amount of their games ever (Kotor, DA:O, Mass Effect, Baldurs Gate, NWN personally) knows that they are all the same fucking story in principle. They are the definition of cliche.
Their name has no place in describing what a good game story is. The likes of Witcher / The Witcher 2 (despite how bad TW2 gets at the end), Deus Ex: HR, System Shock, and so forth are examples of well written game stories. Not Bioware games.
Also, I'm Hungry.
Being the same story does not preclude the story from being well written (nor save it from being poorly written, equally) in any particular instance. The story being a cliche or samey does not stop it from having fantastic set pieces or scenarios.
Both The Witcher 2 and Deus Ex: HR fall apart pretty badly toward the end, not only in story but particularly in presentation.
The story being cliche DOES make it poorly written. What the hell are you smoking?
On September 05 2011 15:13 Doodsmack wrote: Jibba man, your standards for video games are way too high LOL. At first I was sorta taking your criticisms seriously but then you said GTA4 didn't have a good story so I knew you're probably one of those people who points out the negativity in everything. Otherwise you wouldn't point out that GTA4's story is only good for video games, as if it's not incredibly obvious that books and movies have the potential to tell much more powerful stories than video games.
It's the exact opposite. Good writers just don't work on video games yet. That's why someone like Metzen can be considered a premier writer in the world of video games. As for the rest, I think I'm better off with standards that are too high than the other way around, broseidon.
KOTOR's writing was superb, Witcher games have great stories (but then, they are inspired by a real book series, so), ME series have a great story with super, super presentation. Assassin's Creed 2 had a mindblowing story
Pfffffftahahahahahahahahah
The fact that you not only mention one, but TWO Bioware games' story just nullifies your entire post. Take a gander at the following chart. No, Bioware games did not start sucking after DA2 -- they have ALWAYS been the same.
Being reductionist is not good critique. There are only a handful of stories that all mediums reuse over and over. That's okay because what makes them interesting is the storytelling, not some bullet points you write down in a spreadsheet. You can break down any story like that, which goes back to my first point.
You can break down any story to the shit listed in that chart? Did you even read it? Bioware writes the same story for every single one of their games but with slight variations in name and skin. I don't give a fuck about storytelling if I'm playing the same story every single game.
Your point initially was that KOTOR and Mass Effect are well written stories. Anyone who has read a book greater than a 1st grade level laughs at how fucking stupid that is and anyone who has played any amount of their games ever (Kotor, DA:O, Mass Effect, Baldurs Gate, NWN personally) knows that they are all the same fucking story in principle. They are the definition of cliche.
Their name has no place in describing what a good game story is. The likes of Witcher / The Witcher 2 (despite how bad TW2 gets at the end), Deus Ex: HR, System Shock, and so forth are examples of well written game stories. Not Bioware games.
Also, I'm Hungry.
Being the same story does not preclude the story from being well written (nor save it from being poorly written, equally) in any particular instance. The story being a cliche or samey does not stop it from having fantastic set pieces or scenarios.
Both The Witcher 2 and Deus Ex: HR fall apart pretty badly toward the end, not only in story but particularly in presentation.
The story being cliche DOES make it poorly written. What the hell are you smoking?
No, it doesn't. If you know anything about storytelling, you'll know that EVERY story can be reduced to several archetypes. Archetypes != Cliche.
Bioware does have real writers. They produce books, novels, comics which are not limited by the Bioware universe. Their Star Wars books are considered as canon by the Star Wars universe. There's more to storytelling than just it's contents. Witcher 2 may have a good story but the way it is conveyed in the game is horrible. Game writing is a lot different than writing for books.
I liked the Deus Ex: HR's story but it could have been better presented at the end. Anyway, I don't feel that is fair to compare the 2 stories as they have different styles to them. Deus Ex concentrates more on the main character while Bioware tends to have a lot more depth in their cast of characters especially the companions. Bioware does a good job of making their characters diverse so that I'll always have a good sense of attachment to a few of then. In Deus Ex, there's no character I'm really fond of.
Deus Ex does give a good illusion that the choices does affect the game but in the end, it doesn't have a permanent impact or the choices converge. Bioware stories tend to have a lot of variables that are more permanent. You get not only the ending of the story but the ending of your companions as well. As a programmer, I have to say that their style is more complex to account for and I do feel that Bioware stories suffer somewhat because of having to handle all these branches. They try to satisfy everyone's version of the story at the expense of making a more soild story.
On September 05 2011 15:13 Doodsmack wrote: Jibba man, your standards for video games are way too high LOL. At first I was sorta taking your criticisms seriously but then you said GTA4 didn't have a good story so I knew you're probably one of those people who points out the negativity in everything. Otherwise you wouldn't point out that GTA4's story is only good for video games, as if it's not incredibly obvious that books and movies have the potential to tell much more powerful stories than video games.
It's the exact opposite. Good writers just don't work on video games yet. That's why someone like Metzen can be considered a premier writer in the world of video games. As for the rest, I think I'm better off with standards that are too high than the other way around, broseidon.
KOTOR's writing was superb, Witcher games have great stories (but then, they are inspired by a real book series, so), ME series have a great story with super, super presentation. Assassin's Creed 2 had a mindblowing story
Pfffffftahahahahahahahahah
The fact that you not only mention one, but TWO Bioware games' story just nullifies your entire post. Take a gander at the following chart. No, Bioware games did not start sucking after DA2 -- they have ALWAYS been the same.
Being reductionist is not good critique. There are only a handful of stories that all mediums reuse over and over. That's okay because what makes them interesting is the storytelling, not some bullet points you write down in a spreadsheet. You can break down any story like that, which goes back to my first point.
You can break down any story to the shit listed in that chart? Did you even read it? Bioware writes the same story for every single one of their games but with slight variations in name and skin. I don't give a fuck about storytelling if I'm playing the same story every single game.
Your point initially was that KOTOR and Mass Effect are well written stories. Anyone who has read a book greater than a 1st grade level laughs at how fucking stupid that is and anyone who has played any amount of their games ever (Kotor, DA:O, Mass Effect, Baldurs Gate, NWN personally) knows that they are all the same fucking story in principle. They are the definition of cliche.
Their name has no place in describing what a good game story is. The likes of Witcher / The Witcher 2 (despite how bad TW2 gets at the end), Deus Ex: HR, System Shock, and so forth are examples of well written game stories. Not Bioware games.
Also, I'm Hungry.
Being the same story does not preclude the story from being well written (nor save it from being poorly written, equally) in any particular instance. The story being a cliche or samey does not stop it from having fantastic set pieces or scenarios.
Both The Witcher 2 and Deus Ex: HR fall apart pretty badly toward the end, not only in story but particularly in presentation.
The story being cliche DOES make it poorly written. What the hell are you smoking?
No, it doesn't. If you know anything about storytelling, you'll know that EVERY story can be reduced to several archetypes. Archetypes != Cliche.
Bioware does have real writers. They produce books, novels, comics which are not limited by the Bioware universe. Their Star Wars books are considered as canon by the Star Wars universe. There's more to storytelling than just it's contents. Witcher 2 may have a good story but the way it is conveyed in the game is horrible. Game writing is a lot different than writing for books.
I liked the Deus Ex: HR's story but it could have been better presented at the end. Anyway, I don't feel that is fair to compare the 2 stories as they have different styles to them. Deus Ex concentrates more on the main character while Bioware tends to have a lot more depth in their cast of characters especially the companions. Bioware does a good job of making their characters diverse so that I'll always have a good sense of attachment to a few of then. In Deus Ex, there's no character I'm really fond of.
Deus Ex does give a good illusion that the choices does affect the game but in the end, it doesn't have a permanent impact or the choices converge. Bioware stories tend to have a lot of variables that are more permanent. You get not only the ending of the story but the ending of your companions as well. As a programmer, I have to say that their style is more complex to account for and I do feel that Bioware stories suffer somewhat because of having to handle all these branches. They try to satisfy everyone's version of the story at the expense of making a more soild story.
First of all, Pritchard was awesome fuck you
And second, I'm starting to think you haven't really played a large number of Bioware games. There are not dozens of branches, it's all the same story reskinned. That's laziness. Sure, it may have been a pretty damn good story originally (As used in Baldurs Gate, Kotor, and even NWN arguably) but once it's done for the umptillionth time, it gets really fucking trite. It doesn't speak well for their current writers. Maybe for their old ones, but when their current ones are for intents and purposes outright copying the former writers, that means that they have no originality.
Nonetheless, this is not a Bioware game or a Bioware thread so let's not stray to that topic.
On September 06 2011 02:24 Senx wrote: Feel real empty after this game, no other games pull me in like deus ex 3 did. Anyone have any tips for epic action rpg games that pull you in?
The Witcher 2?
I played through until Henghsa, then re-started a no-kill / hard difficulty playthrough. I'm just before Hengsha again, and knowing where everything ... I'm floating in money and don't know where to put my extra praxis points Good thing I restarted now, because I would have lost interest if I had beaten the game first.
On September 06 2011 02:24 Senx wrote: Feel real empty after this game, no other games pull me in like deus ex 3 did. Anyone have any tips for epic action rpg games that pull you in?
Yeah man I felt the same way lol.
I never finished the original game, but I really wanted to after playing DXHR, So I was glad when I found this post on reddit.
On September 06 2011 02:24 Senx wrote: Feel real empty after this game, no other games pull me in like deus ex 3 did. Anyone have any tips for epic action rpg games that pull you in?
Yeah man I felt the same way lol.
I never finished the original game, but I really wanted to after playing DXHR, So I was glad when I found this post on reddit.
On September 06 2011 02:24 Senx wrote: Feel real empty after this game, no other games pull me in like deus ex 3 did. Anyone have any tips for epic action rpg games that pull you in?
On September 05 2011 15:13 Doodsmack wrote: Jibba man, your standards for video games are way too high LOL. At first I was sorta taking your criticisms seriously but then you said GTA4 didn't have a good story so I knew you're probably one of those people who points out the negativity in everything. Otherwise you wouldn't point out that GTA4's story is only good for video games, as if it's not incredibly obvious that books and movies have the potential to tell much more powerful stories than video games. You are basically saying "this is how good DXHR, and video games in general, would be in a perfect world." I mean, saying the weapon mods are generic? The takedown cinematics are cheesey? Wut? I thought both of those things were great - they even have a lock-on mod for the combat rifle, and they have multiple takedown cinematics, all of which are pretty damn cool. Actually the fact that there even are cinematics for takedowns is pretty damn cool. I think you need to lower your standards in general or you are going to be pretty disappointed in life, bro.
What?!? Video games allow the storyteller, the developers, to fully immerse the audience, player. How is this better then a move in which the audience has no interaction at all? Books are a little trickier because people have been writing books/ telling stories in a book-esque fashion for literally thousands of years, so they have more time to learn how to tell their story in their medium. Video games are, imo, a extremely unexplored story telling medium that isn't being really developed because gameplay itself is being more focused on in games, which isn't really a bad thing but it does hinder ones ability to tell a story if they are still figuring out the gameplay.
Um no, in the case of a book or movie all you do is get told a story, while in a video game the story is necessarily 50% or less of the experience because you have to play too. If a video game focuses too much on story it runs the risk of having excessive cutscenes ala Metal Gear Solid 2. Gameplay is what makes video games video games, so story will never be a priority. Anyways this is slightly beside the point. The real point I was making was that any claim that GTA4's story wasn't artistic is absurd.
Anyone else see the news about the DLC coming in October? Sounds kinda cool, I didn't think that part of the story actually needed filling in though, because I thought Jensen was just in transit...
On September 06 2011 08:06 Senx wrote: Also this is the only video game I've ever played that had a relevant and interesting story that I as a human can relate to.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6752/chartqq.png)
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