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What warlock gate, we just did UBRS using normal strats. It's pretty straightforward just clear everything as normal quick enough.
Everbloom has several mob pulls that are dangerous to the whole group, the very first pull with all the trash to the skip corner, then all trash at once in the 1st boss area (dangerous as fk if some of the casts go through, stun on your healer? gg), and then all trash at mage boss at once (multiple dragon's breath stunlocking your tank/healer, gg). Using our 2 skip jump route we have to clear all those packs to hit enough trash mob kills to meet the requirement. First the normal skip everyone does even on normal, then 2nd skip after 1st boss straight up to mage boss, which is somehow the easiest skip ever if you own any mammoth mount, you can simply jump with it against the corner and it will climb up due to being such a big mount. Even the last boss has those small add pack spawns that can just nuke your tank if he doesn't have cooldown up for each as they apply a dot that deals mega sick damage and if you're unlucky the boss spawns several of those waves in a row.
Anyway that's just my experience running a couple characters to gold.
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It's kinda like Mythic dungeons, but with low lvl gear.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 26 2015 12:42 daemir wrote:
What warlock gate, we just did UBRS using normal strats. It's pretty straightforward just clear everything as normal quick enough.
Everbloom has several mob pulls that are dangerous to the whole group, the very first pull with all the trash to the skip corner, then all trash at once in the 1st boss area (dangerous as fk if some of the casts go through, stun on your healer? gg), and then all trash at mage boss at once (multiple dragon's breath stunlocking your tank/healer, gg). Using our 2 skip jump route we have to clear all those packs to hit enough trash mob kills to meet the requirement. First the normal skip everyone does even on normal, then 2nd skip after 1st boss straight up to mage boss, which is somehow the easiest skip ever if you own any mammoth mount, you can simply jump with it against the corner and it will climb up due to being such a big mount. Even the last boss has those small add pack spawns that can just nuke your tank if he doesn't have cooldown up for each as they apply a dot that deals mega sick damage and if you're unlucky the boss spawns several of those waves in a row.
Anyway that's just my experience running a couple characters to gold.
I did it with 4 people to see if we could actually 4 man stuff doing WR pace strats because of our speedrunning backgrounds so my perception may be slightly off. The warlock gate allows for the DPS / Healer to completely skip out of the final boss of UBRS in the same way you can skip the first boss of Archendoun / all the trash to 3rd boss of burial grounds / Skyreach wind minigame meaning only the tank actually has to worry about the tactics leading to a higher dps output because you don't need to move what so ever.
As for everbloom the only time I found it hard was with the volleys which was a bug. Obviously a lot of this is coming down to how many interrupts you have as well but if you have a DK tank (Which you really should have for any CM) then it wasn't as huge of an issue.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
It's kinda like Mythic dungeons, but with low lvl gear.
I'd say CM in 630 is harder than mythic in 650-660, but there's a time limit too. UBRS is long so you have to go a long time without fucking up, while Everbloom was probably the biggest DPS/pull check
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I'm saying if you don't want to put in the minimal effort that's required to earn flying, then you won't get it. That's fine. I haven't done the rep grinds either.
Where are the devs that actually play the game and what are they doing with their game time if not Tanaan?
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Fucking hate this ring, imbalanced (though towards my spec, randomly) and people CANNOT use it right. I've been in countless pugs and three heroic-mythic guilds and people fuck it up all of the time. It's randomly used 5-10 seconds after pull after all of my burst is done, it's missed for an average of about 10 seconds even when people are trying to chain it, it's used before important moments instead of on them - and worst of all, i counted four times in a single raid where a ranged used it and didn't even try to get in range for the explosion, wasting 10 million damage. On serious attempts after multiple wipes on bosses, not farm content.
This isn't just a case of a few players being bad, there is a general lack of competence in everything aside from the top 1-5% of guilds which makes any kind of raidwide shared cooldown 15 second activation that you have to sync with other abilities/cooldowns/procs a complete disaster - and those top 1-5% of guilds will be caused a huge amount of pain from the amount of imbalance in the ring so NOBODY is happy
angry rant over
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Depends on the fight, but our guild isn't that stringent on the usage of it. We beat all of the current fights without it, and all fights in the game can be beat without it, so why get worked up over it.
In pubs some people are just going to use it for padding their meters even if they don't kill the boss.
Also for my class (rogue), i only care about it in one of my specs (assassination) because it lines up with my 2 minute cooldowns. Doesn't bother me though it it is done at start of fight or 5 seconds in when I use it if no one else does. In combat I don't care about ring because my cooldowns are wonky due to my specs ability to reduce cooldowns of killing spree/adrenaline rush so it never lines up correctly.
I do save the ring for certain parts of the fight though since I do the calls for our raid in fights. We haven't had many issues with it yet being used early on accident.
I guess I am not picky about it though.
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Waiting 5-10 seconds on pull is fine, to get classes that don't have OMG SUPER INSTA AIMED SHOT BURST, but require building stacks or dots for the first 3-4 globals.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
Depends on the fight, but our guild isn't that stringent on the usage of it. We beat all of the current fights without it, and all fights in the game can be beat without it, so why get worked up over it.
Because last week i had a more organized group that killed 13/13 in 3 hours, now this one spent over 4 hours to get 3/4 of the bosses including a ton of wipes on iskar and zakuun when people were still messing around like that
Waiting 5-10 seconds on pull is fine, to get classes that don't have OMG SUPER INSTA AIMED SHOT BURST, but require building stacks or dots for the first 3-4 globals.
Waiting 5-10 seconds consistently after the pull timer hits 0 is awful. For every class that would like spend 3 seconds running to the boss and then build stuff for 5 seconds before blowing cooldowns, there is one with three 2 minute cooldowns to sync that can't blow their shorter cooldowns and entire focus pool until they're up - so they end up just staring at the boss without attacking until the ring is blown in order to not waste ICD's and such - or attacking early and getting terrible burst, as in literally doing a million less damage in the opening 20 seconds.
It especially bothers me when it's some of these guys, who are stood but kinda awkwardly quite far out of the bosses aggro range and spend 5 seconds running to the boss before they even start building their stuff to activate the ring 5 seconds later and then do a fraction of my damage even though mine is completely fucked up and theirs is perfect - and it's not about me in particular, it's just not a raidwide gain to hold it for 8-20 seconds instead of blowing it between 0 and 3 seconds into the fight. Like even 5 seconds if you're slow then whatever, it's not super hard progression content - it's just that it's consistently more than that.
You really don't want to fuck up this opening damage from the classes like Hunter:
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/d6NCJjl.jpg) I know my Iskar UI is kinda bad, not sure how to make the debuffs show on grid properly and it hasn't been worth looking into deeply for one boss that is supposed to be on farm 210k DPS 100% single target for 19.49 seconds without heroism in i710. the only reason it's possible is being disproportionately powerful with ring (2min), rapid fire (2min) and trinket (2min activation) combo - as well as the second trinket and weapon enchant proc, which go off instantly and are ticking away from the moment the pull timer hits 0 so you have everything up at once
Waiting 3 seconds for melee to get perfectly in position and blow a global or two is fine, but 8-12 second delay is just ridiculous - and i feel like this shouldn't be much of a debate anyway; the obvious answer is to blow it early but you shouldn't have to write an essay to a raid leader about this stuff because people should be able to control their own raid contribution.
Obviously the top 1% of guilds during serious content will mostly figure this stuff out but i don't see why anyone at any level wants linked rings like this or the type of proc that so disproportionately helps some specs more than others which dictates using it with those specs regardless of what you'd like to do - there is the level of players that just honestly don't care but i don't feel that that's an alright justification for making it terrible.
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And if you are 1 hunter in the raid vs 5+ dps that do not have aimed shot to open their burst with, then waiting 5 seconds for them to get their opening dots and setup rolling is worth it. 20 seconds is too much, 5 is okay. The proc lasts 15 seconds before explosion, prepot is 25 seconds. As long as you fit in that duration, it's honestly just fine.
There can also be other considerations, like for example on Archimonde, if our raid would pop ring exactly on pull, it would be totally wasted, because it would blow after the first doomfire is dead and before 1st deathcaller spawns. Instead we delay a few seconds and the ring proc will take care of the first add almost by itself.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
And if you are 1 hunter in the raid vs 5+ dps that do not have aimed shot to open their burst with
aimed shot isn't even the bursty part, it's the chimaera shot (9 sec cd) and focus dump mechanics. If you get lucky with procs your initial focus can last 10-20 seconds, if you don't then you're at 0 focus after 4 seconds and can no longer apply damage. There are at least two hunters and a bunch of other classes that don't want to wait 10 seconds
There is the argument for holding ring and other procs for stuff - that's fine, especially when it's not at the very start of the fight where your internal CD's will be out of whack anyway.
The archimonde example in particular i don't think i agree with just because the damage that you do to Archimonde himself will directly influence the amount of adds that spawn before the major phase transitions and the first doomcaller isn't really a threat to anything - it's technically more efficient to have the burst go entirely on Archimonde and eat them both with cleave damage instead for a longer time, at least when you have exceptionally high damage on normal and heroic.
The difference isn't small, my lowest DPS on getting archimonde heroic to sub-10% vs my highest was like 3 to 5 extra doomcallers/doomfire orbs which means a toooooon of extra health that you have to damage through and a ton of extra fire/danger.
Plenty of reason for holding the ring, just as a rule holding it for 8-14 seconds at the start of the fight and then not lining it up with anything isn't good. There's an argument for 0 on the pull timer, i think the best time is around 3 seconds but 8-14 seconds is just too awkward
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Good to see that while Blizzard has changed virtually everything in the game since vanilla, one thing stays constant: huntards QQ! 
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On August 27 2015 22:11 Cyro wrote:
The archimonde example in particular i don't think i agree with just because the damage that you do to Archimonde himself will directly influence the amount of adds that spawn before the major phase transitions and the first doomcaller isn't really a threat to anything - it's technically more efficient to have the burst go entirely on Archimonde and eat them both with cleave damage instead for a longer time, at least when you have exceptionally high damage on normal and heroic.
That doesn't sound right. The less time you have to waste killing the 1st add, the more focus on the boss, plus first allure is cast few seconds after 1st deathcaller, followed by (depending dps) desecrate. Having the ring explosion take care of most of the deathcaller means less people need to target swap, which is good, because not all classes gain dps by swapping like huntards do.
And yes, I'm still not saying the proc should be kept for over 10 seconds, 5 should be enough to get most classes going with 3-4 globals. The uses mid fight depend totally on the fight and what the raid dps is, because some boss timers go off by % health which is dynamic timer based on raid dps, while some go off based on strict cooldowns. Lining it up with 2 min cds is ideal, but depending on fight length, 2nd use might be better off delayed by a minute to line up with 3 minute cooldowns instead, if the amount of times ring is used stays the same in the fight. And again that depends totally on raid dps which you can't intuitively just get right on the first go.
also, 100% agree with arco above, damn huntards, it's always just about them isn't it :D
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The latest our raids uses it on pull is 5-6 seconds if I am in assassination. My starting rotation is Ambush -> mutilate -> rupture -> shadow reflection/ring macro -> vendetta. So 3 GCD then ring. This is given the fact that I might not be on the boss for the first .5-1.5 seconds of the fight due to him running at the tank (usually I am on him within 1 second).
If I am combat, our warlock does the ring activation and he also pops it around 4-5 seconds in after he puts up his dots for most single target fights.
I haven't had our hunters complain about the ring yet so we will see as now 80% of our raid's DPS has the ring now.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
That doesn't sound right. The less time you have to waste killing the 1st add, the more focus on the boss, plus first allure is cast few seconds after 1st deathcaller, followed by (depending dps) desecrate. Having the ring explosion take care of most of the deathcaller means less people need to target swap, which is good, because not all classes gain dps by swapping like huntards do.
It's taken care of because we have really high DPS.
The less time you have to waste killing the 1st add, the more focus on the boss
cleaving 2 targets does more damage than 1 for a lot of classes. If it's definately going to be handled no problem then keeping adds alive for longer in order to hit 2 targets at once will get you to phase faster while taking care of all adds without undue stress on healers or tanks
because not all classes gain dps by swapping
Hunters don't gain DPS from changing targets and sticking to a new target. They gain DPS by bouncing back and forth between small to medium (~2-4) targets that are popping up and dieing frequently, as they do significantly worse damage when their target is between 80-35% health and have bad AOE, but do a lot of damage to >80% and <35% health targets.
And yes, I'm still not saying the proc should be kept for over 10 seconds, 5 should be enough
5 sec is late, 3 sec is fine. 12 just doesn't work unless there's a specific need calling for it. Waiting 12 sec on Iskar for example will do nothing but cost DPS, risk losing a ring activation during an important time in the fight (if a set of add spawns and ring cooldown has 15 seconds left, for example) and run the first ring uptime into the Winds that happens at the 20 second mark. Planned delaying to line up with important fight mechanics are fine, delays because you was halfway across the room or forgot to use the ring are not fine. There's a special emphasis on the first usage because it's guaranteed to line up with ICD's which will be very hard or impossible to keep doing later into the fight, so you need a bigger reason than usual to delay it (coupled with the fact there's rarely important mechanics 20-30 seconds deep into the fight, for example Kormorog hands when doing dragging hands pool first)
The uses mid fight depend totally on the fight and what the raid dps is, because some boss timers go off by % health which is dynamic timer based on raid dps, while some go off based on strict cooldowns. Lining it up with 2 min cds is ideal, but depending on fight length, 2nd use might be better off delayed by a minute to line up with 3 minute cooldowns instead, if the amount of times ring is used stays the same in the fight.
You can't really intuitively know this on the longer fights so with no point in archimonde before he hits 25% needing any particular high DPS, it's seemed best by far to use it on the 2 minute cooldowns as you go, holding one for @25% - exception if your raid lacks DPS, but they'll probably have plenty of DPS unless they're undergeared if they have the skill to kill archimonde. If you somehow find a 17 second window with no add (from ring activation to explosion) then people can just cleave/kill the add after, it's not a big deal. They die fast to competent players, ring or not.
as now 80% of our raid's DPS has the ring now
I don't know any DPS that would raid in a mythic guild and be a month behind on ring. Getting the most out of your damage (rather than doing etc 70% of potential) matters exponentially more the higher up you go
So much hate, wow TL
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Don't take it too seriously, this conversation is over couple of seconds of something that isn't even required for anything, but you just sound like a typical huntard, all me me me, ruins my dps zomg! :p There's totally valid reasons not popping it immediately that I can point out from a healer pov already. I only care about the raid dps, not anyone's personal whoring of the meters.
Say Iskar, if the melee who pops rings gets picked for Chakram target, he has to run away for a moment and you might risk missing the ring explosion or doing completely avoidable raid damage. If you hold the ring for the first seconds of the pull until the first chakram targets get picked, a melee who doesn't get it can pop it.
Gorefiend then, if you pop it immediately, you risk having your ring carrier Frodo picked for Shadow of Death and ported into the stomach phase before the ring pops. Ups. Better wait that 5 secs on pull until Death marks go out so you can pick who isn't going in.
Kormrok, if you time it wrong, he might be doing his first Leap to a pool when your ring proc goes off. Socrethar there's little point using it on pull, as I think most raids will lust once Socrethar's Soul is exposed, which should definately be before 2 mins is up. And so on and so forth, sure there's bosses where you want to use it quick, like on tyrant everyone should be real close to her prepull and there's no mechanics that really require the ring on special moments there, or Iron Reaver.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
Hunter is the third class i play and statements like that are just ridiculous. I hear it all the time from people on forums directed at others instead of actually discussing the topic at hand, even on obscure stuff like flying or the attitude towards earning rewards for content threads. I figured it would get old after a decade but it never did, useless comments about class/race/hero/weapon no matter what game you play. Just tired of it by now. There are frequently used derogatory comments out there about every single thing that you can do or play that's not underpowered, so why bother, why the circlejerk?
I only care about the raid dps, not anyone's personal whoring of the meters
Say Iskar, if the melee who pops rings gets picked for Chakram target, he has to run away for a moment and you might risk missing the ring explosion or doing completely avoidable raid damage. If you hold the ring for the first seconds of the pull until the first chakram targets get picked, a melee who doesn't get it can pop it.
It's delayed on both Gorefiend and Kormrok on purpose - it's just that outside of special mechanics, there's no reason to let the activation lag for 8-15 seconds.
If you're in the middle of the fight, the ring comes off cooldown and there's an important mechanic coming in 50 seconds and it's not used, i'l just assume that he's saving it for the mechanic - and then 20 seconds before the mechanic, the ring is used. But why? There was a dead time for a quarter ring cooldown for no reason (threatening to lose an activation), it wasn't saved - benefitted nothing at all and now people have to use their 2 minute cooldowns in the downtime lul of the fight. It's just to the point where it feels like way too many ring activations are bad activations and that makes me sad to see.
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Well, my guild is not a mythic guild. Also not all of our people play all the time and some of them are close, but dont have their rings yet (both our tanks dont have it, and 1 or 2 dps dont have it).
I have an attitude of putting forth effort on each boss when we are raiding, but also understand that our guild has no intentions of doing mythic, so I am not pushing us to be 'cutting edge' because we don't raid for that.
Understand our point of view in that every boss in the instance was killed without this ring, and worrying about when its popped does not make a bit of difference. Does it make the boss easier, sure, but so does just doing all the mechanics properly.
You seem overly worried about something that is not a huge difference in strategy for the fight. I'm not sure why but just seems excessive how much you care about 5 seconds of dps, when before the ring was a thought in peoples raid no one cared at all about it.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
I have an attitude of putting forth effort on each boss when we are raiding, but also understand that our guild has no intentions of doing mythic, so I am not pushing us to be 'cutting edge' because we don't raid for that.
I completely understand your point of view, but i disagree with the same point of view in a mythic guild that's supposed to have this stuff down
I'm not sure why but just seems excessive how much you care about 5 seconds of dps
15 minutes ago we had a mannoroth pull, nobody blew ring at start so somebody else took backup and blew it 20 seconds into the fight, they stood out of range and hit nothing with explosion. Somebody else blew the ring during the phase right before the last phase, so we entered last phase with it having ~1 min 30 sec of CD and wiped with the boss at ~5%. If it's a fun guild then that's all well and good but i don't think it should be the norm for mythic progression. The awkward timing at the start of most fights is just one symptom of that.
And sure, popping ring at 10 seconds instead of 5 seconds is 5 seconds of DPS - it's just the most important 5 seconds in the fight for how much a fail like that affects damage output
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On August 28 2015 03:54 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +I have an attitude of putting forth effort on each boss when we are raiding, but also understand that our guild has no intentions of doing mythic, so I am not pushing us to be 'cutting edge' because we don't raid for that. I completely understand your point of view, but i disagree with the same point of view in a mythic guild that's supposed to have this stuff down Show nested quote +I'm not sure why but just seems excessive how much you care about 5 seconds of dps 15 minutes ago we had a mannoroth pull, nobody blew ring at start so somebody else took backup and blew it 20 seconds into the fight, they stood out of range and hit nothing with explosion. Somebody else blew the ring during the phase right before the last phase, so we entered last phase with it having ~1 min 30 sec of CD and wiped with the boss at ~5%. If it's a fun guild then that's all well and good but i don't think it should be the norm for mythic progression. The awkward timing at the start of most fights is just one symptom of that. And sure, popping ring at 10 seconds instead of 5 seconds is 5 seconds of DPS - it's just the most important 5 seconds in the fight for how much a fail like that affects damage output
So your here venting because you feel like your in a shit mythic guild.
Its so much easier to just say that then complain about how the use of a major cooldown should resolve around you and not the other 13 dps
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man i wish i was in a 12/13m u lucky fuck
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
Its so much easier to just say that then complain about how the use of a major cooldown should resolve around you
You missed my complaint entirely - about the design of it HAVING to revolve around 2 minute cooldown users.
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EPT
