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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 28 2015 08:35 daemir wrote:
You wanna talk about how the dps ring is stupid? Try the healer one. One, absorbs do nothing for it. Two, any absorbs used during it will deduct from healers not having absorbs. The whole thing is stupid beyond belief. I'd take the dps interaction any day over that. The average shield we got this raid out of the healer ring was 1/8th of my single PW:S.
TBH healing has had a bunch of issues this expansion and I doubt its gonna get better. I think the only fights I've actually enjoyed as a healer this expansion are Blackhand / Kromog / Oregorger / Imperator with most of HFC being "eeh"
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On August 28 2015 08:35 daemir wrote:
You wanna talk about how the dps ring is stupid? Try the healer one. One, absorbs do nothing for it. Two, any absorbs used during it will deduct from healers not having absorbs. The whole thing is stupid beyond belief. I'd take the dps interaction any day over that. The average shield we got this raid out of the healer ring was 1/8th of my single PW:S.
So what then the ring is somewhat less good but still useful. And disc priests are still viable regardless. I dont see the problem.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
Mainly because disc priests are overpowered by design; raids don't go without them
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On August 29 2015 08:18 Cyro wrote:
Mainly because disc priests are overpowered by design; raids don't go without them
So thank god they dont get further boosted by the legendary ring.
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On August 29 2015 08:18 Cyro wrote:
Mainly because disc priests are overpowered by design; raids don't go without them
At least blizzard is finally looking at it after it having been an issue since as long as i can remember.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 29 2015 08:38 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2015 08:18 Cyro wrote:
Mainly because disc priests are overpowered by design; raids don't go without them At least blizzard is finally looking at it after it having been an issue since as long as i can remember.
Well I mean they'll change Disc priests but then healing will still be "keep healing floor down and spam 3 min cd when its your turn". Disc priest is pretty much the only interesting healing spec right now from the 4 I play (Disc/holy / shaman / Druid)
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On August 29 2015 08:46 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2015 08:38 Gorsameth wrote:On August 29 2015 08:18 Cyro wrote:
Mainly because disc priests are overpowered by design; raids don't go without them At least blizzard is finally looking at it after it having been an issue since as long as i can remember. Well I mean they'll change Disc priests but then healing will still be "keep healing floor down and spam 3 min cd when its your turn". Disc priest is pretty much the only interesting healing spec right now from the 4 I play (Disc/holy / shaman / Druid)
pressed PW:S for an entire fight is interesting?
Anyway that is not the point. Discs problem is in the nature of Absorbs. Both the increase in health pool, the pro-active nature as oppose to the reactive and the fact it actually removed the ability of other healers to function (because of its pro-active nature) on lower damage fights.
The basic nature of healing in WoW is not going to change.
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On August 29 2015 08:46 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2015 08:38 Gorsameth wrote:On August 29 2015 08:18 Cyro wrote:
Mainly because disc priests are overpowered by design; raids don't go without them At least blizzard is finally looking at it after it having been an issue since as long as i can remember. Well I mean they'll change Disc priests but then healing will still be "keep healing floor down and spam 3 min cd when its your turn". Disc priest is pretty much the only interesting healing spec right now from the 4 I play (Disc/holy / shaman / Druid)
Imo monk is awesome. 
Very different from disc though, which I dont like at all.
Overall I am very happy to have made the switch from dd to healer.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 29 2015 08:52 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2015 08:46 Drazerk wrote:On August 29 2015 08:38 Gorsameth wrote:On August 29 2015 08:18 Cyro wrote:
Mainly because disc priests are overpowered by design; raids don't go without them At least blizzard is finally looking at it after it having been an issue since as long as i can remember. Well I mean they'll change Disc priests but then healing will still be "keep healing floor down and spam 3 min cd when its your turn". Disc priest is pretty much the only interesting healing spec right now from the 4 I play (Disc/holy / shaman / Druid) pressed PW:S for an entire fight is interesting? Anyway that is not the point. Discs problem is in the nature of Absorbs. Both the increase in health pool, the pro-active nature as oppose to the reactive and the fact it actually removed the ability of other healers to function (because of its pro-active nature) on lower damage fights. The basic nature of healing in WoW is not going to change.
Pressing PW:S relies on you knowing the fight and when the damage is going to be coming in and on what targets as well as maintaining your evangelism stacks its a lot more fun than sitting on your ass making sure your healing rain / ES is still up and occasionally popping healing tide when its your turn to pop a cd (I seriously wish they'd just remove all 3 min cds) no matter what the fight is.
Healers are always gonna be shafted by other healers its just the nature of the role and why the better you are the less healers you bring to a raid. Not much you can really do about it without making damage a constant threat like Blackhand / Oregorger p1 / Kromog.
If it wasn't disc priests it'll be druids due to healing over times etc etc etc.
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On August 29 2015 09:02 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2015 08:52 Gorsameth wrote:On August 29 2015 08:46 Drazerk wrote:On August 29 2015 08:38 Gorsameth wrote:On August 29 2015 08:18 Cyro wrote:
Mainly because disc priests are overpowered by design; raids don't go without them At least blizzard is finally looking at it after it having been an issue since as long as i can remember. Well I mean they'll change Disc priests but then healing will still be "keep healing floor down and spam 3 min cd when its your turn". Disc priest is pretty much the only interesting healing spec right now from the 4 I play (Disc/holy / shaman / Druid) pressed PW:S for an entire fight is interesting? Anyway that is not the point. Discs problem is in the nature of Absorbs. Both the increase in health pool, the pro-active nature as oppose to the reactive and the fact it actually removed the ability of other healers to function (because of its pro-active nature) on lower damage fights. The basic nature of healing in WoW is not going to change. Pressing PW:S relies on you knowing the fight and when the damage is going to be coming in and on what targets as well as maintaining your evangelism stacks its a lot more fun than sitting on your ass making sure your healing rain / ES is still up and occasionally popping healing tide when its your turn to pop a cd (I seriously wish they'd just remove all 3 min cds) no matter what the fight is. Healers are always gonna be shafted by other healers its just the nature of the role and why the better you are the less healers you bring to a raid. Not much you can really do about it without making damage a constant threat like Blackhand / Oregorger p1 / Kromog
I would say there is a significant difference between
a) Raider X loses 1k hp. Who heals it up first
b) Raider X loses 200 hp. 800 having been absorbed by the disc. Someone get the craps that are left.
Again, pro-active vs reactive healing. Its not that the Disc is a better player. His style of healing is simply better and your raid is gimping itself by not having it.
As for the cd's. If you remove the big cd's you also end up removing the big period damage spikes on bosses. Its not like these fights are being designed without those cooldowns existing in mind.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 29 2015 09:10 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2015 09:02 Drazerk wrote:On August 29 2015 08:52 Gorsameth wrote:On August 29 2015 08:46 Drazerk wrote:On August 29 2015 08:38 Gorsameth wrote:On August 29 2015 08:18 Cyro wrote:
Mainly because disc priests are overpowered by design; raids don't go without them At least blizzard is finally looking at it after it having been an issue since as long as i can remember. Well I mean they'll change Disc priests but then healing will still be "keep healing floor down and spam 3 min cd when its your turn". Disc priest is pretty much the only interesting healing spec right now from the 4 I play (Disc/holy / shaman / Druid) pressed PW:S for an entire fight is interesting? Anyway that is not the point. Discs problem is in the nature of Absorbs. Both the increase in health pool, the pro-active nature as oppose to the reactive and the fact it actually removed the ability of other healers to function (because of its pro-active nature) on lower damage fights. The basic nature of healing in WoW is not going to change. Pressing PW:S relies on you knowing the fight and when the damage is going to be coming in and on what targets as well as maintaining your evangelism stacks its a lot more fun than sitting on your ass making sure your healing rain / ES is still up and occasionally popping healing tide when its your turn to pop a cd (I seriously wish they'd just remove all 3 min cds) no matter what the fight is. Healers are always gonna be shafted by other healers its just the nature of the role and why the better you are the less healers you bring to a raid. Not much you can really do about it without making damage a constant threat like Blackhand / Oregorger p1 / Kromog I would say there is a significant difference between a) Raider X loses 1k hp. Who heals it up first b) Raider X loses 200 hp. 800 having been absorbed by the disc. Someone get the craps that are left. Again, pro-active vs reactive healing. Its not that the Disc is a better player. His style of healing is simply better and your raid is gimping itself by not having it. As for the cd's. If you remove the big cd's you also end up removing the big period damage spikes on bosses. Its not like these fights are being designed without those cooldowns existing in mind.
Except instead of A) it'll be C) Raider X loses 1k HP which is instantly healed due to riptide / soothing mist / Rejuvination / Renew
Every class has some form of proactive healing its just that shields get in first which is where the bitching starts. At the end of the day it really doesn't matter because the other classes have other areas where they're better (Shamans being really damn good for mythic maidens boat for example).
Again the big period of spike damage doesn't really add anything given its literally just make a healing rotation which again is somewhat tiring at this point given healing has basically just turned into "wait your turn to heal" rather than just removing the spike damage and making healing more challenging with your basic setups
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On August 29 2015 08:13 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2015 08:35 daemir wrote:
You wanna talk about how the dps ring is stupid? Try the healer one. One, absorbs do nothing for it. Two, any absorbs used during it will deduct from healers not having absorbs. The whole thing is stupid beyond belief. I'd take the dps interaction any day over that. The average shield we got this raid out of the healer ring was 1/8th of my single PW:S.
So what then the ring is somewhat less good but still useful. And disc priests are still viable regardless. I dont see the problem.
Did you somehow miss the part where having a disc in raid effectively nerfs the ring proc for other healers as well? Because a) the disc has shields up before damage happens -> raid takes less damage to be healed -> the ring proc only works off actual health healed. So have a disc in raid (lol, everyone does)? Well grats, the ring proc equals to jack shit.
For the disc, it's the single most uninteresting piece of loot, it doesn't even have good stats for disc, it has to be worn only due to the intellect it gives when you upgrade it.
And I've seen the healing these fabled "just spam PW:S" priests do, and sorry, I aim for the 99-100% parses and there's a bit more you have to do to get to that club. I didn't get rank 1 in my ilvl bracket this week for zakuun for example by just hammering my head over the PW:S button.
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I find it really strange that blizzard has said they are happy with the current raiding guild and how they are holding up. From what your describing, it sounds like everything is in shamble as I figured.
Regarding the ring, it pretty stupid. I don't really enjoy these accessory legendary are much as I would of had a weapon or armor or something. No having an actual physical form just doesnt have that kick to it. Also, I wonder if the ring effect will continue to be useful post WoD.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
Also, I wonder if the ring effect will continue to be useful post WoD.
It can't be, because powered up ring will be an >80% damage boost for 15 seconds on activation.. too much damage for one slot that's usually not special at all
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The raiding this expac has been fine really, it's just that the whole "legendary" ring thing is bs from start to finish and the end result is disappointing.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
Raiding the current tier has been fine, they completely failed when it came to gear scaling and general viability of doing anything but the hardest difficulty on the latest content - since nobody is rewarded for anything else, so there are often 20 groups up for HFC and exactly 0 for highmaul even though it's only one tier behind.
legendary ring is my least favourite way by a mile of doing legendaries. The shared usage and such, having one effect across all classes/specs on a short cooldown (not once per fight, like 2-6x per fight) just makes it awkward and imbalanced and ruins all other content because everyones DPS suddenly doubles with burst going up more than that
content flow hasn't / will not be great either; two tiers in a year and a half after the 14 month content drought is a dissapointment. So i'd rate WOD raiding 6.5/10 so far, decent and fun but a ton of room for improvement. Some points taken off for the steps back they've taken; the one step forward, two steps back attitude of blizzard is worrying sometimes when they don't look at what worked well or didn't work well in some previous expansions when making long term decisions. A lot of stuff has improved in the game but it has unquestionably degraded in many ways too
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On August 29 2015 17:50 SheaR619 wrote:
I find it really strange that blizzard has said they are happy with the current raiding guild and how they are holding up. From what your describing, it sounds like everything is in shamble as I figured.
Regarding the ring, it pretty stupid. I don't really enjoy these accessory legendary are much as I would of had a weapon or armor or something. No having an actual physical form just doesnt have that kick to it. Also, I wonder if the ring effect will continue to be useful post WoD.
I would say the Raiding scene is indeed more volatile that is normally is. Imo its still the result of the change to raid sizes.
Lots of 10m guilds scaling up dried up the raiders market and let such guilds floundering when they try to get ready for mythic beginning the eternal recruit/leave circle which is hard to escape.
My guess is that its starting to slow down tho. Most of those guilds will have died off during BRF after all.
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On August 29 2015 17:31 daemir wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2015 08:13 Redox wrote:On August 28 2015 08:35 daemir wrote:
You wanna talk about how the dps ring is stupid? Try the healer one. One, absorbs do nothing for it. Two, any absorbs used during it will deduct from healers not having absorbs. The whole thing is stupid beyond belief. I'd take the dps interaction any day over that. The average shield we got this raid out of the healer ring was 1/8th of my single PW:S.
So what then the ring is somewhat less good but still useful. And disc priests are still viable regardless. I dont see the problem. Did you somehow miss the part where having a disc in raid effectively nerfs the ring proc for other healers as well? Because a) the disc has shields up before damage happens -> raid takes less damage to be healed -> the ring proc only works off actual health healed. So have a disc in raid (lol, everyone does)? Well grats, the ring proc equals to jack shit. For the disc, it's the single most uninteresting piece of loot, it doesn't even have good stats for disc, it has to be worn only due to the intellect it gives when you upgrade it.
No I did not miss it. If it supresses the heal of the other healers it factually makes the disc healers worse, since you have at least 2 other healers in the raid. In fact I am pretty sure you are aware of that which is why you are complaining about it.
If blizz made the ring passive work with absorbs like you seem to want that would simply be incredibly op and a terrble decision by blizz.
And again how is it bad that the ring stats are not optimal for disc? That is a good thing given their relative strength. Btw haste is way worse for monk than for disc.
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United Kingdom20285 Posts
I would say the Raiding scene is indeed more volatile that is normally is. Imo its still the result of the change to raid sizes.
Lots of 10m guilds scaling up dried up the raiders market and let such guilds floundering when they try to get ready for mythic beginning the eternal recruit/leave circle which is hard to escape.
Losing 10% of your subs per month for at least 6 months straight is a much bigger deal than raid size changes. That's 2.5 people from every stable mythic guild every month.
100*0.9^6 = 53.14% remaining after 6 months with a 10% loss of remaining subs per month, which lines up perfectly with blizzards numbers for december-june
though now we're 3 months past that - trend line predicts falling through 3.9m subs this coming month (september). I'm sure every solid raiding guild has taken very heavy losses and it's hard to make up for it with recruitment - if that sub loss was distributed evenly throughout the playerbase, it would mean a 25 man mythic guild now has less than 10 players left, on average.
Everyone who's not at the very top is recruiting a ton, but they're recruiting from other guilds in the chaos from cascade failure when losing this many players
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guilds where always recruiting - and besides 2 people leaving us cuz they moved to a different country our guild is pretty stable - but we also only take a few people in cuz we sort out idiots before they actually join the raid. - dont know any guild which is on our level who is falling apart cuz of people leaving the game O.o thats strictly speaking for a mythic guild which is not at the very top (we are only top15 2days raids (well would be higher but a lot of 2 day raids are actually 3 or more but tell different cuz they wanna look good on wowprogress) T_T
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