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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 20 2015 20:33 Redox wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 20:18 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2015 20:10 crappen wrote:On August 20 2015 20:01 Gorsameth wrote:On August 20 2015 19:54 crappen wrote:
I'm just now getting into raiding in WoD, and pugs are harsh. The requirement makes me uneasy, and my only solution is to study line of sight guides, and PoV videos to understand the fight before attempting it. Doing Gorefiend "flawless" on my first try felt weird, and you constantly have the "please dont fuck up and get kicked" feeling.
And guild doesn't suit me. I wish LFR had the difficulty normal have, as the jump from normal to hc would still leave you with good ideas of the fight without youtubing everything. LFR was more difficult during MoP and as a result any fight that was not a pure tank/spank fight had to be heavily nerfed because it was giving big problems for players. Something as simple as " dont hit the boss for 20 seconds" on General Nazgrim was completely beyond them. The mind numbing ease of LFR is because the players are simply so bad that it is needed. But I remember we wiped, but we got determination buff, and we started to speak with each other, and yes, people left, and new came in, and we got it. What we have now, is much worse. If you don't have achievement, and you missed out on raiding the first few weeks because of gear or whatever, you have a hard time joining pugs. I can only join "if you fuck up you're replaced" pugs, and even those are rare compared to "link curve" or "will armory" pugs. Yes I can install Fake Achievement addon, but the entire mentality is harsh and toxic now. Is this better? I'm scared to join LFM groups I have complained about the mentality of pug raids in the past. often asking ilvls higher then the actual raid itself gives which is insane That is not a fault of Blizzard tho but purely the community itself looking to get carried. Well I gathered some experience with PUG groups in the 3 weeks I was without a guild. I had decent gear so I had no problems getting groups. But if I joined a group that didnt have high requirements they usually wiped at the 2nd boss and dissolved. After some time you learn to only join those with the highest requirements. Or even better you join a guild group that looks for some pugs. The other decent players learned the same lesson probably so the low (or rather normal) requirement groups end up with all the baddies. You really dont want to be in these groups.
Pretty much my experience as well. If the requirements are low I just wouldn't bother because its just a waste of time. Nothing wrong with wanting a farm run as opposed to a progress run
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Mmk, guess I misremembered wildstar's problems. I knew it wasn't purely "game is too hard" but couldn't be assed to recall what all was wrong. There was something like crafted gear being best in slot too, right?
On August 20 2015 19:51 lestye wrote:Show nested quote +What absolutely blows my mind is going to a forum like MMOC and seeing people absolutely against raiding, wanting mythic removed, flex normal modo only because clearly Mythic is killing the game. It's like, were you not around in Vanilla and TBC? The game was far less accessible then yet was far more popular, probably because an MMO isn't the sort of game that lends itself to being something super accessible like Doto or League or Hearthstone. The game has historically been as popular as BC and Vanilla with the many difficulties. We had 4 difficulties when WoW was at its peak in popularity. But regardless, the expansion and the game has a lot of issues, but I don't think raiding is one of them. The raid content and levelling are the 2 aspects I think they did a great job in this expansion. But I do agree with the overall sentiment that people who hate LFR have, is that there's not much to do to progress your character. I think their answer is the artifact system. We'll see how it plans out because it could be very mediocre in implementation, but the overall idea is good. Something to do to progress your character outside. Something to work for. And I think thats the main issue people are opposed to LFR have, is that there isn't something to work for. Oh, and FFXIV, its hard to say because Square isnt the most transparent/open company, but I think the raiding is good, and the playerbase seems good. It's not a game that's bleeding. The only problem is that their ilvl progression is really....awkward? But the raids are good, although typically they only release 4 bosses per tier.
The encounters themselves are great but it's a little dull to do the fights on Heroic (+maybe pug Normal to complete tier or w/e early on) and then again on Mythic. It doesn't bother me a ton but it would be cooler if the first time I was doing Mythic Gorefiend or something was the first time I'd seen the fight period. But then there's a lot of people who do the fight on Normal or Heroic and go "Mythic is just the same fight with an extra mechanics and bigger numbers who cares?" and then want OTHER content to do.
It has the same effect that they were trying to stop (as mentioned in the dev watercooler), rather than guilds burning out on content they just complete it quickly and get bored and unsub (and sometimes never come back if the sub numbers are any indication). But then, as mentioned, a lot of people are impatient so I guess going to one difficulty would have lots of outcry on forums. This is kind of why WoW in general is dying, so many changes with intentions that don't work as the devs had hoped, and the raiding population shrinks with the rest of the population.
Also I've heard FF14's encounters are a bit easy (also I've read about some weird lag issue with hitboxes but idk if that was just the one guy complaining). The long GCD and general addon hate is kind of a turn off too since the game is also for consoles I think?
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
I play wildstar right now. 60 FPS constant raiding
@3-6 months after launch i was into the 20-30's range during the entire intermission phase of system daemons with a 4770k @4.6ghz. Looking across a room with 40 people on screen = death. That was with optimized system, no intensive addons and a majority of spell effects removed. My performance was significantly better than the majority of the raids
The progression system - after being reworked (it sorely needed it) is alright now, but the stats themselves are bad. It's not what i'd expect for a system that went through the pain of being reworked from the ground up twice - a lot of games have stats that are not perfect, but it would be just too much effort on the devs and player part to screw everything up in order to improve it a little bit
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The mind numbing ease of LFR is because the players are simply so bad that it is needed.
LFR and nerfing all dungeons in cata+MOP so that they were easily doable with the tool to find random players has probably made the average skill of the community worse; at the very least, less people aspiring to be better in that bottom 80% of the playerbase
The game has historically been as popular as BC and Vanilla with the many difficulties. We had 4 difficulties when WoW was at its peak in popularity.
WoW actually had 1 and 2 difficulties on raids when gaining popularity. The switch to 3 and 4 difficulties happened after Firelands which was around when subscribers started falling for the first time as well
and people can merely listen to my instruction during live gameplay
This doesn't work so well, really - i can understand the attitude in most guilds of "watch a kill video before pulling boss" with tactics revisions before the pull on voice, because if you pull a lot of bosses when a lot of people have not seen it before, you will wipe a lot - and it's difficult to find a lot of people who want to wipe a lot. I constantly see people who don't want to wipe much and i'm in a Mythic guild
LFR was more difficult during MoP and as a result any fight that was not a pure tank/spank fight had to be heavily nerfed because it was giving big problems for players.
Something as simple as " dont hit the boss for 20 seconds" on General Nazgrim was completely beyond them.
The painful way to fix that is.. not fix it at all. The problem will fix itself eventually - especially since people can make premade groups for it. If it's much easier than normal/heroic people WILL kill it more.
It's only neccesary to nerf if you want a difficulty which literally anyone can do without wiping a lot and cannot be prevented from doing through lack of skill, social interaction etc. I don't agree with that at all; a content difficulty for learning to play, seeing the content with removed mechanics, simplification and less punishment for failure as well as lower tuning (good players can do it in i630-640, bad players in 680 get a huge leg up) would work for much of the same purposes, without going.. that.. far.. and would fix some of the market for the Normal Mode difficulty, as well.
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On August 21 2015 06:24 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +The game has historically been as popular as BC and Vanilla with the many difficulties. We had 4 difficulties when WoW was at its peak in popularity. WoW actually had 1 and 2 difficulties on raids when gaining popularity. The switch to 3 and 4 difficulties happened after Firelands which was around when subscribers started falling for the first time as well
That is completely false. WoW had 4 difficulties the last 2 tiers of Wrath, which includes its peak.
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Wraths peak was almost entirely because of it tying up the wc3 story, and arthas. Lfr wasn't introduced until patch 4.3 which was the final patch of cataclysm. Please don't compare 10 and 25 man raids with 20 man raids and lfr, it's fairly dishonest.
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
That is completely false. WoW had 4 difficulties the last 2 tiers of Wrath, which includes its peak.
I wasn't really considering 10/25 normal/heroic as seperate difficulties; you could look at it like that, but the difficulty spread was much much lower than today. Also way fewer players would step 10 man normal, 25 man normal, 10 man heroic, 25 man heroic aside from TOTC which had 5 bosses, no trash and the first bosses were easier - they didn't do it for Ulduar or ICC, which were ~6-7 months apart
Calling that similar to four difficulties today would be like comparing 10 man normal vs 10 man heroic (+2 step) to Normal vs Mythic or LFR vs Heroic today, even if 10 man is a fair bit easier than 25 it's not even remotely close to what we have now
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Legion could launch before or after the Warcraft movie and the expansion release date isn't tied to it.
Legion could launch before or after the Warcraft movie
or after the Warcraft movie
Before or after summer next year. Right.
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On August 21 2015 17:59 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +That is completely false. WoW had 4 difficulties the last 2 tiers of Wrath, which includes its peak. I wasn't really considering 10/25 normal/heroic as seperate difficulties; you could look at it like that, but the difficulty spread was much much lower than today. Also way fewer players would step 10 man normal, 25 man normal, 10 man heroic, 25 man heroic aside from TOTC which had 5 bosses, no trash and the first bosses were easier - they didn't do it for Ulduar or ICC, which were ~6-7 months apart Calling that similar to four difficulties today would be like comparing 10 man normal vs 10 man heroic (+2 step) to Normal vs Mythic or LFR vs Heroic today, even if 10 man is a fair bit easier than 25 it's not even remotely close to what we have now ------- Show nested quote +Legion could launch before or after the Warcraft movie and the expansion release date isn't tied to it. ...
Yes you can make that quote mean whatever you want by taking it out of context. How about reading it normally and seeing that the simply says that the 2 are entirely unconnected.
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Also I've heard FF14's encounters are a bit easy (also I've read about some weird lag issue with hitboxes but idk if that was just the one guy complaining). The long GCD and general addon hate is kind of a turn off too since the game is also for consoles I think? FF14's raids can be tough, it can have a very awkward progression system though.And yeah the lag suck. The GCD kinda sucks at low levels, but you do get lots of stuff to weave during GCD downtime at high levels. Its a great game, actually good raid content, but combat is not as smooth as WoW's. Speaking of smoothness, They make EU and NA share servers in Quebec, that's super scummy imo.
Wraths peak was almost entirely because of it tying up the wc3 story, and arthas. Lfr wasn't introduced until patch 4.3 which was the final patch of cataclysm. Please don't compare 10 and 25 man raids with 20 man raids and lfr, it's fairly dishonest. The issue I was disputing was the quantity of raid difficulties provided. That's completely fair.
I wasn't really considering 10/25 normal/heroic as seperate difficulties; you could look at it like that, but the difficulty spread was much much lower than today. Also way fewer players would step 10 man normal, 25 man normal, 10 man heroic, 25 man heroic aside from TOTC which had 5 bosses, no trash and the first bosses were easier - they didn't do it for Ulduar or ICC, which were ~6-7 months apart
I don't know anyone that does that for current tier content as well. There's a 2 month delay on LFR, you would have been farming either normal or heroic and progressing on the next step above. Either way in both systems you're farming 1 or 2 difficulties, never 4.
Before or after summer next year. Right.
The rumors that the WoW devs are actually developing the game to help the movie is so damn stupid. They would have made WoD way more about Ogrim, Durotan, and Blackhand if they gave 2 damns about the movie, or at least referenced how the First War changed everything. Not even a reference to how awesome Lothar was anything like that in the expansion. I think the only connection the game will have with the movie is like a commemorative pet or something.
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
I don't know anyone that does that for current tier content as well. There's a 2 month delay on LFR, you would have been farming either normal or heroic and progressing on the next step above. Either way in both systems you're farming 1 or 2 difficulties, never 4.
I went normal-heroic-mythic with most of my friends both in-guild and out. Going from t17h to t18n was too big of a gap and you needed to clear normal for tomes if you couldn't clear heroic. Stuff like classes getting 15% DPS gains going t17h to t18n and also some particularly powerful trinkets, more accessible weapons for those who didn't get weapons from mythic BRF etc.
They make EU and NA share servers in Quebec
Unacceptable. At least Wildstar gave me ~25ms ping whenever they were not having the classic ncsoft server routing 50% packet loss 4000ms ping spike drama that they still have not fixed
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I went normal-heroic-mythic with most of my friends both in-guild and out. Going from t17h to t18n was too big of a gap and you needed to clear normal for tomes if you couldn't clear heroic. Stuff like classes getting 15% DPS gains going t17h to t18n and also some particularly powerful trinkets, more accessible weapons for those who didn't get weapons from mythic BRF etc.
Yeah, I suppose I should've included that, trinkets and weapons it might be worth to running the lower tier, and that can be annoying. There's probably some poor bastard that has to run LFR every week because trinkets wont drop for his guild.
I always disliked how like (bullshit numbers), Tier 2 Normal had better gear than Tier 1 Hard. I've always felt Tier 1 Hard should be better if not the same. I think they said its because you do have lots of players that quit raiding after a tier because they cant dedicate to doing hard content, but there's still an easier difficulty where they can still get upgrades the next tier. I've kinda disagreed with that.
Unacceptable. At least Wildstar gave me ~25ms ping whenever they were not having the classic ncsoft server routing 50% packet loss 4000ms ping spike drama that they still have not fixed
Yeah, I agree. It's a great game, one of the best soundtracks I've ever heard, the FFXIV team actually hauls ass and puts out content (casual content, your raid content is still only 4 bosses a tier, they do have a LFR style 24 man, but thats not "real" raiding), but the server situation is just so damn stupid for as large of a company as SE.
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
Yeah, I suppose I should've included that, trinkets and weapons it might be worth to running the lower tier, and that can be annoying
tier too when you have classes gaining 15% damage on the spot when swapping out t17 to t18. There were several examples of that on at least several different token types. The hunter one even significantly enhanced playability and raid contribution as well as raw DPS numbers
I always disliked how like (bullshit numbers), Tier 2 Normal had better gear than Tier 1 Hard. I've always felt Tier 1 Hard should be better if not the same.
I thought so too. It's not bullshit numbers - if you can clear two thirds of hfc normal, you'll get way better gear there than BRF HC. Clearing bosses that you don't overskill is also highly gear dependant.
I was about i690 going into HFC. At the time, i was DPSing in about the 36-50k range in BRF (heroic and mythic) i went yesterday today at i708 with ring and i was finishing every fight in the 70-100k range with most of the raid doing the same DPS - about 30-40k (people gearing up in brf and getting runes) - so damage across the raid was not inflated that much but it was still possible to do much, much more over a sustained period of time. I did ~180-190% of my #1 record DPS on Grull even though i killed him week after week for 3 months straight before.
That kind of gear scaling highly incentivizes people do go normal, heroic, mythic - unless they have the raid skill and consistency to just eat through heroic on a gear deficit. Even if they're good enough to do that, they'll run normal as well in the same lockout, so why not run it first? The tier and trinkets are too strong.
Heroic HFC is way stronger than any t17 mythic raid to the point where guilds simply won't go back to progress on a previous raid - even if that means cancelling 2 of the 3 raid days in a week because 13/13H is clear and they're missing a few people for hellfire citadel mythic.
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On August 22 2015 03:32 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +Yeah, I suppose I should've included that, trinkets and weapons it might be worth to running the lower tier, and that can be annoying tier too when you have classes gaining 15% damage on the spot when swapping out t17 to t18. There were several examples of that on at least several different token types. The hunter one even significantly enhanced playability and raid contribution as well as raw DPS numbers Show nested quote +I always disliked how like (bullshit numbers), Tier 2 Normal had better gear than Tier 1 Hard. I've always felt Tier 1 Hard should be better if not the same. I thought so too. It's not bullshit numbers - if you can clear two thirds of hfc normal, you'll get way better gear there than BRF HC. Clearing bosses that you don't overskill is also highly gear dependant. I was about i690 going into HFC. At the time, i was DPSing in about the 36-50k range in BRF (heroic and mythic) i went yesterday today at i708 with ring and i was finishing every fight in the 70-100k range with most of the raid doing the same DPS - about 30-40k - and one other person (another geared hunter) up at the top with me - so damage across the raid was not inflated that much but it was still possible to do much, much more over a sustained period of time. I did ~180-190% of my #1 record DPS on Grull when i killed him week after week for 3 months straight before. That kind of gear scaling highly incentivizes people do go normal, heroic, mythic - unless they have the raid skill and consistency to just eat through heroic on a gear deficit. Even if they're good enough to do that, they'll run normal as well in the same lockout, so why not run it first? The tier and trinkets are too strong.
I meant the tier numbers were bullshit numbers. Not literally tier 1 and Tier 2.
Yeah trinkets, and set bonuses and weapons kind of skew the difficulty levels and item level rewards as well.
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
Haha 
btw, this is an example of tab targetting being broken
https://gfycat.com/NeighboringUnimportantEchidna
you also can't tab target at all or see a nameplate unless you're within about 30-35 yards of a target. With MM hunters being heavily incentivized (via mastery and class trinket, unless you get neither of those) to stand still and stand at high range (up to ~50 yards) that's frequently a huge annoyance for me. Having to change position on Archimonde for example because i cannot target a fire orb or doomcaller. Though you can semi-fix that by using an addon that will show a health bar for those important adds that you can then move your mouse and click on, that's slower, less convenient and an overall minor bandaid fix to an issue that effects you everywhere in the world and in every encounter
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there is an addon for that...called stratafix
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
What does that fix, exactly? I thought it only fixed a few other UI bugs
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How hard is Challenge Mode? Never ever done it. Is it hard to get silver/gold?
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On August 26 2015 07:18 crappen wrote:
How hard is Challenge Mode? Never ever done it. Is it hard to get silver/gold?
Everything is relative, nothing in WoW is hard if your a good player playing with other good players.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 26 2015 07:18 crappen wrote:
How hard is Challenge Mode? Never ever done it. Is it hard to get silver/gold?
I'd say its easier than MoP CM. Silver is basically free and gold is pretty damn easy except for UBRS
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I found UBRS gold much easier than Everbloom gold.
Also, yay, managed to kill hc Archimonde. Mythics soon!
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 26 2015 07:58 daemir wrote:
I found UBRS gold much easier than Everbloom gold.
Also, yay, managed to kill hc Archimonde. Mythics soon!
When I did everbloom gold it was during the era where all the frostbolt etc were volleys rather than just single target stuff making it pretty damn difficult to do stuff with the standard pulls. UBRS is hard because all the hard strats come right at the final room and if you screw up the warlock gate then you have to reset.
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EPT
