EPTits one of those ambiguous things
[wow] Warlords of Draenor - Page 569
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
its one of those ambiguous things | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
since the mount speed bonus's are now additive, a +20% to mount speed turns 380% into 400% instead of into 456% - it's less of a huge deal. I think you get +10% from guild(?) already, though i don't use any garrison buildings any more so why not have a stable | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
By the way, lowering the difficulty of bosses a few times isn't making "extra content". All it's doing is introducing a diablo style of progression, which absolutely nobody wants. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
All it's doing is introducing a diablo style of progression whyyy would you remind anyone of that D: There is endgame diablo and then there is do everything on difficulty 1 then repeat it on difficulty 2 and 3 before getting to the repeat of the same content (4'th) that actually matters. Just speaking from launch d3, i know they changed/fixed stuff. Fuck i hate those systems, in both WoW and diablo. Doing the same story content four times over on a neccesary gear progression treadmill is literally way worse than | ||
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lestye
United States4135 Posts
On August 20 2015 07:41 Ayaz2810 wrote: I'd like to see blizzards data on that. I remember wiping on 25m professor putricide literally more times than I can be bothered to count. Our guild was a ragtag group of real raiders who formed a 10 man group who downed LK and started on HC, and the rest were friends and guild scrubs. We died......so much. But we didn't quit. We were having fun. I find it really hard to believe that people will wipe 20 times and be like fuck this I'm done. That would just be crazy to me. Really? On my server we pugged everything, we downed Putricdie the first week with 5 attempts left (the first month the normal mode end wing bosses had attempts) And I think its completely believable. So many guilds died on Heroic Lich King, Kael, Vashj, and especially Muru. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
We already have way more significant gear scaling as well as progressive buffs/nerfs on the final raids to help with that too; either you can get gear from the next tier and kill it (blizz even nerfs previous tiers now on top of that) or if you can't do that because it's the last raid, you'll get the progressive buff to help you. | ||
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TomatoBisque
United States6290 Posts
I find it really hard to believe that people will wipe 20 times and be like fuck this I'm done. That would just be crazy to me. This definitely happens. A lot of people can't handle the progression mindset. But my question is: How is a guild dying to Muru or Kael any different from a guild dying to Mythic Blackhand or something similar? I don't see how Normal/Heroic/etc. helps there at all except let people see a nerfed version of the boss within a month of the raid being released, but this doesn't matter to a guild that's allegedly trying to push Mythic content or whatever but has recruits who don't know what progression raiding is like and give up after two dozen wipes. If anything, the "Everyone is winner" mindset that LFR and Normal push out makes this worse. Am I misunderstanding what people are talking about? The best thing about multiple difficulty levels is if they just had one difficulty level but didn't completely phase out Highmaul/BRF when HFC came out this wouldn't be a problem. Like, if Highmaul dropped 660 gear (with heroics dropping 630), BRF dropped 685 or so, and HFC dropped 710, you could have Baleful gear from tanaan still be 650 with a chance at 675 which would help people get through Highmaul and BRF since that content is outdated now, and then have the 695 upgrades too but make it so you're not showered with them like you are currently (or make them only upgrade up to BRF level, idk). Then in the pre-expansino patch you can just nerf HFC to the ground so everyone can see it, or something. This would extend the life of content because then you wouldn't have literally everyone bitching about "WHEN'S THE NEXT RAID BLZIZ I KILLED BLACKHAND IN MARCH CMON" because it was easily puggable on Normal then, instead only top 200 guilds or w/e would be done with the raid and those guys would be pugging Highmaul and maybe Gruul or some shit. Like, you could even make a raid flex or something once it's no longer the most cutting edge thing to make it so people who just want to friends and family raid or something can do it and to make it easier to pug etc. etc. Unfortunately, at this point it's too late to make changes without people getting massively butthurt. There's already a ton of people furious about 20 man only Mythic because Blizzard wanted to change to that from the 10/25 man nonsense. Maybe it's just a vocal minority but I suspect it's not. What absolutely blows my mind is going to a forum like MMOC and seeing people absolutely against raiding, wanting mythic removed, flex normal modo only because clearly Mythic is killing the game. It's like, were you not around in Vanilla and TBC? The game was far less accessible then yet was far more popular, probably because an MMO isn't the sort of game that lends itself to being something super accessible like Doto or League or Hearthstone. And sure, that audience likely has shrunk due to many of the old hardcore guys getting older and no longer necessarily having the time, and the kids going into that other stuff, but there's still an audience there. I have no idea what I'm trying to say anymore. I just want a game with fun challenging PvE group content with longevity that's not dying due to the developer's inability to appease its fanbase, but I don't really know what an option for that is anymore. Wildstar it seems flopped because it was 2hardcore, SWTOR is apparently dying and its raiding is apparently pretty meh, I've heard nothing good about FF14 raiding. And I don't know where I'd start looking outside MMOs. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
You had to go 5 man to 20 man to 40 man as a guild for linear progress in a time where they lost 90% of the playerbase in 6 months. Can you say guild merges?  Itemization has been reworked from the ground up TWICE and is still questionable at best. FPS is like 1/3'rd of WoW's with much bigger drops when you install essential addons, which is a huge problem in 20 and 40 man raids. They didn't have good leveling content (storyline started at level 40 out of 50, not at level 1) or good max level content aside from the dungeons/raids until later on - though it was mostly abandoned as everyone was funneled into raiding. they did have some excellent dungeon/raid mechanics, particularly telegraph system and interrupt armor which made it the first game i've played to significantly beat WoW in dungeon/raid encounters IMO but there was no backbone or development behind that to make it actually work. WoW can definately take some lessons from those mechanics. The idea of firing attacks and having those attacks hitting enemies rather than tabbing to a target and hitting that target only is also more fun i feel, though it has its positives and negatives. WoW ranged combat from 20-50 yards FEELS BAD - around 35 yards nameplates disappear and you can no longer tab target at all. There is NO WAY TO FIX THIS as far as i know, which is a huge pain for day to day life as a marksmanship hunter. Shots also have travel time which have quite negative effects with server lag - kill shot sometimes takes 2 to 4 seconds to reset at long range, pretty much at random. Fast interrupts don't work. Ranged combat as a whole just doesn't feel near WS's level for clarity, ease and responsiveness - mobility in WoW feels awful too. I did not miss flying mounts in WS, but i can't play WoW without them. No double jumps, sprints, rolls, dashes and leaps? Fuuuuuck >_< They couldn't even test the raids in any capacity before putting them on live servers and 6 months after the launch, there were issues like one of the random selection of 40 man bosses near the end of the instance being unkillable whenever it came up, which would block people from the end of the instance for entire weekly lockouts and took months to be fixed They've yet to add another raid (aside from a room with 1 boss) even though they launched 6 months before WOD. Some good, some very good - but mostly lots of bad. I don't regret playing, unlike the majority of MMO style games i played from launch (rift and gw2 for example) | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10107 Posts
About itemization, where is the problem ? Shiphands give you 55 ilvl, adventures 58 ilvl, dungeons 61ilvl, and a runed dungeon gear is perfectly capable of clearing whole GA content. I didn't experience 40 man DS, but 20 man DS doesn't seem to be like a bugfest or something of that sort. If you are on a guild you can perfectly jump directly to veteran dungeons at lvl 50, gear on a week, rune up and while you prepare for the GA attunement (not to speak that with the F2P attunement will be just 4 dungeon on bronze lol). You can't expect them to release more content when the game flopped that hard after release. Not to speak, that there are only 10 guilds to have killed Avatus. The game has its faults, but itemization and guild progression are hardly the ones right now, levelling, oh yeah, it's mindnumbly boring pre-33. It needs more content, but not post DS. A 10 man raid would do wonders to the game. I don't disagree with why it flopped, just that it's not the state where the game sits right now. | ||
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lestye
United States4135 Posts
What absolutely blows my mind is going to a forum like MMOC and seeing people absolutely against raiding, wanting mythic removed, flex normal modo only because clearly Mythic is killing the game. It's like, were you not around in Vanilla and TBC? The game was far less accessible then yet was far more popular, probably because an MMO isn't the sort of game that lends itself to being something super accessible like Doto or League or Hearthstone. The game has historically been as popular as BC and Vanilla with the many difficulties. We had 4 difficulties when WoW was at its peak in popularity. But regardless, the expansion and the game has a lot of issues, but I don't think raiding is one of them. The raid content and levelling are the 2 aspects I think they did a great job in this expansion. But I do agree with the overall sentiment that people who hate LFR have, is that there's not much to do to progress your character. I think their answer is the artifact system. We'll see how it plans out because it could be very mediocre in implementation, but the overall idea is good. Something to do to progress your character outside. Something to work for. And I think thats the main issue people are opposed to LFR have, is that there isn't something to work for. Oh, and FFXIV, its hard to say because Square isnt the most transparent/open company, but I think the raiding is good, and the playerbase seems good. It's not a game that's bleeding. The only problem is that their ilvl progression is really....awkward? But the raids are good, although typically they only release 4 bosses per tier. | ||
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crappen
Norway1546 Posts
And guild doesn't suit me. I wish LFR had the difficulty normal have, as the jump from normal to hc would still leave you with good ideas of the fight without youtubing everything. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21337 Posts
On August 20 2015 19:54 crappen wrote: I'm just now getting into raiding in WoD, and pugs are harsh. The requirement makes me uneasy, and my only solution is to study line of sight guides, and PoV videos to understand the fight before attempting it. Doing Gorefiend "flawless" on my first try felt weird, and you constantly have the "please dont fuck up and get kicked" feeling. And guild doesn't suit me. I wish LFR had the difficulty normal have, as the jump from normal to hc would still leave you with good ideas of the fight without youtubing everything. LFR was more difficult during MoP and as a result any fight that was not a pure tank/spank fight had to be heavily nerfed because it was giving big problems for players. Something as simple as " dont hit the boss for 20 seconds" on General Nazgrim was completely beyond them. The mind numbing ease of LFR is because the players are simply so bad that it is needed. | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On August 20 2015 20:01 Gorsameth wrote: LFR was more difficult during MoP and as a result any fight that was not a pure tank/spank fight had to be heavily nerfed because it was giving big problems for players. Something as simple as " dont hit the boss for 20 seconds" on General Nazgrim was completely beyond them. The mind numbing ease of LFR is because the players are simply so bad that it is needed. Except LFR has determination stacks and thus you could 5 man LFR if you really wanted to so nerfing it was overkill. That said I know for a fact i'd just hit general Nazgrim in LFR to make the fight less boring as a healer Personally with LFR being this easy I don't see why they don't just give you free loot at the start of every week... oh shit they do that with Garrisons. I guess it all makes sense now | ||
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crappen
Norway1546 Posts
On August 20 2015 20:01 Gorsameth wrote: LFR was more difficult during MoP and as a result any fight that was not a pure tank/spank fight had to be heavily nerfed because it was giving big problems for players. Something as simple as " dont hit the boss for 20 seconds" on General Nazgrim was completely beyond them. The mind numbing ease of LFR is because the players are simply so bad that it is needed. But I remember we wiped, but we got determination buff, and we started to speak with each other, and yes, people left, and new came in, and we got it. What we have now, is much worse. If you don't have achievement, and you missed out on raiding the first few weeks because of gear or whatever, you have a hard time joining pugs. I can only join "if you fuck up you're replaced" pugs, and even those are rare compared to "link curve" or "will armory" pugs. Yes I can install Fake Achievement addon, but the entire mentality is harsh and toxic now. Is this better? I'm scared to join LFM groups | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On August 20 2015 19:54 crappen wrote: I'm just now getting into raiding in WoD, and pugs are harsh. The requirement makes me uneasy, and my only solution is to study line of sight guides, and PoV videos to understand the fight before attempting it. Doing Gorefiend "flawless" on my first try felt weird, and you constantly have the "please dont fuck up and get kicked" feeling. And guild doesn't suit me. I wish LFR had the difficulty normal have, as the jump from normal to hc would still leave you with good ideas of the fight without youtubing everything. You should try a guild, the low tier ones are usually pretty relaxed these days. Like you show up for 1 or 2 raids per week, otherwise you dotn have to do much with them. These lower tier guilds also wont kick you for a mistake. Only disadvatage is that you have scheduled raid times. Of course that is also an advantage because you dont have to waste an hour searching for a group when you want to raid. Raiding in a guild that is not high end is also way more relaxed than doing pug raids. And requirements are lower. | ||
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crappen
Norway1546 Posts
On August 20 2015 20:11 Redox wrote: You should try a guild, the low tier ones are usually pretty relaxed these days. Like you show up for 1 or 2 raids per week, otherwise you dotn have to do much with them. These lower tier guilds also wont kick you for a mistake. Only disadvatage is that you have scheduled raid times. Of course that is also an advantage because you dont have to waste an hour searching for a group when you want to raid. You're right, I should check forum for a weekend guild that won't force me to be awake to 23:00. I hate coming tired to work, I need 1 hour without gaming before I go to bed. Maybe guilds are different now, last guild I was in burned me out with 3 times a week in ICC | ||
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crappen
Norway1546 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21337 Posts
On August 20 2015 20:10 crappen wrote: But I remember we wiped, but we got determination buff, and we started to speak with each other, and yes, people left, and new came in, and we got it. What we have now, is much worse. If you don't have achievement, and you missed out on raiding the first few weeks because of gear or whatever, you have a hard time joining pugs. I can only join "if you fuck up you're replaced" pugs, and even those are rare compared to "link curve" or "will armory" pugs. Yes I can install Fake Achievement addon, but the entire mentality is harsh and toxic now. Is this better? I'm scared to join LFM groups I have complained about the mentality of pug raids in the past. often asking ilvls higher then the actual raid itself gives which is insane That is not a fault of Blizzard tho but purely the community itself looking to get carried. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On August 20 2015 20:18 Gorsameth wrote: I have complained about the mentality of pug raids in the past. often asking ilvls higher then the actual raid itself gives which is insane That is not a fault of Blizzard tho but purely the community itself looking to get carried. Well I gathered some experience with PUG groups in the 3 weeks I was without a guild. I had decent gear so I had no problems getting groups. But if I joined a group that didnt have high requirements they usually wiped at the 2nd boss and dissolved. After some time you learn to only join those with the highest requirements. Or even better you join a guild group that looks for some pugs. The other decent players learned the same lesson probably so the low (or rather normal) requirement groups end up with all the baddies. You really dont want to be in these groups. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21337 Posts
 However for those wondering why there are so many difficulty levels and if they are really needed you might wanna read http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/13935559 which explains Blizzards reasoning for it. | ||
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