EPT[wow] Warlords of Draenor - Page 511
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
DBM is training wheels for raids. After long enough, the fight becomes practically muscle memory and you can predict when stuff is going to happen by feeling rather than relying on raid timers. DBM doesn't just have timers though. It's two most useful functions are explicitly calling with an audio warning when you are affected by some mechanic + having a HUD that shows your position relative to other players, showing visual and auditory warnings when you're in danger from a mechanic. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On June 03 2015 23:37 Seuss wrote: That's not what I'm saying. Blizzard isn't in an arms race against our addons, but they assume players are capable of certain things when they design a boss fight. Some of these things have no built-in indicator in the UI (e.g. boss CDs). When you skimp on the addon you're making the fight harder for yourself the same way you do when you skimp on consumables. You don't make it impossible, but you do increase the difficulty. This isn't a new situation either. Threat meters were utterly crucial for raiding as early as Vanilla, long before Blizzard had any significant built-in support for indicating threat (other than "YOU HAVE THREAT NOW GJ" *splat*). You can wax philosophical about how Blizzard is a terrible company for having to rely on third party mods to make raiding function, but that's really a red herring. And when you play any other MMO you realize how much you miss 3rd party addons and how awesome these almost infinite customisation options actually ar.. Blizzard enabling 3rd party stuff has always been one of their biggest strengths since wc2 imo. | ||
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ThaddeusK
United States233 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
I think it is a fair statement to say it is bad game design to rely on addons, but its worse game design to have the main element of gameplay be trying to parse a shitty UI to find out what is actually happening in the game because the UI displays this information poorly or not at all, which would be the case without DBM/bigwigs/weak auras/etc. Absolutely the case. Wildstar does a much better job at showing some raid mechanics, but it has huge holes just like WoW without addons. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
And yea, there's very few people who actually could mentally track the 5-6 boss ability CDs that you need to be aware of that can go off simultaneously. On top of doing their own stuff that their class/spec requires while tracking cds and trinket cds. It's just too much info to process at once, but if they'd disable the addon functions that make stuff like DBM work and tune the encounters with that in mind, they'd have to cut out so many abilities that the encounters would be boring as balls as a result. Anyone who tries to tell me vanilla encounters were mechanically more challenging is delusional. First boss in MC had like 2 abilities, and the adds had an extra ability. That's not very challenging now is it? And because the abilities were very bland, you had stuff like "oh you're a mage? well then you hide in this little corner and never look at the boss so you don't get cursed, then you decurse the whole raid, priority healers!" What a fascinating encounter that was, hiding in the little depression in the wall and decurse for 5 minutes. Or Shazrah where melee stood at max range in a ring around the boss, because the bosses arcane explosion had massive range and it would have strained the healers massively to try keep them alive if they actually dpsed the boss with melee attacks. The boss had 3 abilities, random teleport, arcane explosion and a curse that increased arcane damage taken. That's it. Super complex. | ||
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Warri
Germany3208 Posts
On June 04 2015 02:03 daemir wrote: At the end of the day, what is the big deal about installing an addon and having some bars on your screen? You're making it a much bigger deal than it is in practice. And yea, there's very few people who actually could mentally track the 5-6 boss ability CDs that you need to be aware of that can go off simultaneously. On top of doing their own stuff that their class/spec requires while tracking cds and trinket cds. It's just too much info to process at once, but if they'd disable the addon functions that make stuff like DBM work and tune the encounters with that in mind, they'd have to cut out so many abilities that the encounters would be boring as balls as a result. Anyone who tries to tell me vanilla encounters were mechanically more challenging is delusional. First boss in MC had like 2 abilities, and the adds had an extra ability. That's not very challenging now is it? And because the abilities were very bland, you had stuff like "oh you're a mage? well then you hide in this little corner and never look at the boss so you don't get cursed, then you decurse the whole raid, priority healers!" What a fascinating encounter that was, hiding in the little depression in the wall and decurse for 5 minutes. Or Shazrah where melee stood at max range in a ring around the boss, because the bosses arcane explosion had massive range and it would have strained the healers massively to try keep them alive if they actually dpsed the boss with melee attacks. The boss had 3 abilities, random teleport, arcane explosion and a curse that increased arcane damage taken. That's it. Super complex. Don't forget healers literally staying out of combat during a bossfight so they can revive dead people. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
There's now at least three major hunter abilities that do less damage to players. Worst of all, one of them does X damage against stuff. It does Y damage against players for a MM/Surv hunter and Z damage against players for a BM hunter. these are just pretty crazy rules. If you're making them, you already have all of the negatives (hard to understand/remember etc) from splitting PVE and PVP abilities. Why would they do that, ignore their previous comments about clarity and make those rules in some situations, yet still compromise on pvp vs pve balance in other ways? | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On June 04 2015 06:06 Cyro wrote: I don't get what blizzard is doing and why they don't just fully seperate PVE vs PVP stuff. There's now at least three major hunter abilities that do less damage to players. Worst of all, one of them does X damage against stuff. It does Y damage against players for a MM/Surv hunter and Z damage against players for a BM hunter. these are just pretty crazy rules. If you're making them, you already have all of the negatives (hard to understand/remember etc) from splitting PVE and PVP abilities. Why would they do that, ignore their previous comments about clarity and make those crazy rules in some situations, yet still compromise on pvp vs pve balance in other ways? I think at this point they kinda realize it should have been done years ago and are simply not doing it so they can save themselves from 8 million people telling them "I told you so" | ||
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Warri
Germany3208 Posts
On June 04 2015 06:06 Cyro wrote: I don't get what blizzard is doing and why they don't just fully seperate PVE vs PVP stuff. On a similar note, i wonder when blizzard will drop the final barrier seperating the playerbase and remove factions out of PvE. It made sense in vanilla, because they actually had a difference back then, but since TBC the difference is only cosmetic and lore. I feel they had a huge chance to do that lore wise in MoP with the pandas as mediators, but dropped the ball there and went the opposite route, splitting the pandas instead. Yet they keep on repeating how alliance and horde are finally at peace and they need to work together to take out the evil guys yadda yadda. And it would make sense. Sooner or later we will have only the really bad guys left, the burning legion leaders, the last old gods and the titans. With connected and coalesced realms they already went a long way to allow everyone play with their friends, but this barrier remains. Im currently in this situation that i switched from alliance to horde at the beginning of mop. Now i have 3 chars on max level with decent garrisons, but absolutely no one to play with on horde. I have a few friends that i would like to play with, but they are alliance. Unless i pay like 50€ to switch all 3 chars to alliance i feel like im losing something, as i want to have all those chars connected for optimal gold farming etc. Though i realize this is one of the reasons they havent dropped factions yet, gotta rake in on all that money. Ill probably end up leveling my old lvl 80 druid, realize i have no money on alliance and would have to 24/7 garrison for a month, give up and quit the game. | ||
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Mysticesper
United States1183 Posts
On June 04 2015 06:06 Cyro wrote: I don't get what blizzard is doing and why they don't just fully seperate PVE vs PVP stuff. There's now at least three major hunter abilities that do less damage to players. Worst of all, one of them does X damage against stuff. It does Y damage against players for a MM/Surv hunter and Z damage against players for a BM hunter. these are just pretty crazy rules. If you're making them, you already have all of the negatives (hard to understand/remember etc) from splitting PVE and PVP abilities. Why would they do that, ignore their previous comments about clarity and make those rules in some situations, yet still compromise on pvp vs pve balance in other ways? At least they ARE doing that. Hunters are really in a good spot right now, and will more or less be the same in 6.2 and the rest of the classes are shuffling around (be interesting to see what all of our haste-centric tier bonuses and such do). Seeing barrage / crows / etc get nerfed cause lolpvp is dumb, but what they are doing now is totally fine, and should be done more often on different classes. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
On June 04 2015 13:17 Mysticesper wrote: At least they ARE doing that. Hunters are really in a good spot right now, and will more or less be the same in 6.2 and the rest of the classes are shuffling around (be interesting to see what all of our haste-centric tier bonuses and such do). Seeing barrage / crows / etc get nerfed cause lolpvp is dumb, but what they are doing now is totally fine, and should be done more often on different classes. I think they should split all of the abilities though, instead of just some - and minimize the weird rules like one ability doing three different base damages depending on your target and spec. | ||
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Warri
Germany3208 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/P57MXga.jpg) Cavalry doing missions. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22308 Posts
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Nisyax
Netherlands756 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22308 Posts
On June 05 2015 06:46 Nisyax wrote: Our weakly clears make no sense, this week we wiped on Flamebender, Gruul (lol attempts with a disc, hpala and a mistweaver doing fistweaving) and Thogar. Last week we fucked up on Hans and Franz + Thogar like 7 times. Then at the end we roll over mythic furnace in one go. Lack of focus, people whoring meters. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20326 Posts
though it makes me a bit more confident losing to this one hunter when he's spec dancing and pulling 95-99'th percentile on half of the brf fights with both specs. That's pretty hard to compete with  What are the easiest 5-6 mythic bosses roughly from order of easiest to hardest? | ||
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Drazerk
United Kingdom31255 Posts
On June 05 2015 06:56 Cyro wrote: WoW is the only MMO i've seen with so much data at your fingertips (through logs etc) though it's pretty scary how much they actually show and how people react to them. though it makes me a bit more confident losing to this one hunter when he's spec dancing and pulling 95-99'th percentile on half of the brf fights with both specs. That's pretty hard to compete with What are the easiest 5-6 mythic bosses roughly from order of easiest to hardest? Easy Beastlord Hanz and franz -- becomes harder once you have gear Flamebender Oregorger Grull --- Becomes easier when you have gear Kromog Thogar Maidens Blast furnace Blackhand Hard | ||
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