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On June 01 2015 21:55 Crownlol wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2015 20:33 Cyro wrote:But overall the game has become much less time-consuming for sure. People now complaining that they cant waste more than 12 hours a week on WoW are a special group anyway that I can not really understand. The complaint is that there's nothing worthwhile to do outside of raid hours which are usually ~6-9 hours a week. Farming gold is worth far less now than it ever has been before and every other incentive is given to you without much work, leaving you playing those 6-9 hours a week with a guild or 10 minutes a week without a guild. The game used to be so much more than logging in to raid and then logging out again. Like what? Even in TBC, if you were geared for progression raiding the only thing to do was farm mats for consumables. One of my biggest issues with the game is how hard they destroyed professions. In Vanilla and TBC, there were *fantastic* reasons to go into crafting professions. The Arcanite Reaper was, for a time, one of the best warrior weapons in the game. Dragonscale armor was raid-ready for Hunters and Enh shaman. Shadowfrost gear was a half tier better than the first raid tier. They took time and money, but had real tangible benefits.
And crafting professions still make great armor for use in raids. Even more so thanks to the upgrade system
The problem with professions is free mats not the professions themselves. Tho I agree that limiting everything by daily cd stuff is dumb.
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United Kingdom20327 Posts
On June 01 2015 21:35 daemir wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2015 19:56 Cyro wrote:On June 01 2015 19:42 daemir wrote:
3 characters is enough to rake in 5-7k gold from the mission table. not from gold missions alone with 10 treasure hunters (not perfect setups) i'm only getting about 1200 a day or so average. 3600/day is miles away from 7k a day. I kept record last week for a few days. One of my garrisons is as treasure huntery as it can get, 2 have 10 each. 5k on first day, 7k on the 2nd and I didn't even get a single Blingtron fit to those days (2k gold from it alone). I have salvage yards too, but I'm not farming boxes hard like doing all possible missions, so it's basicly a box per gold mission, an extra 10-25g from vendoring. Already bought enough game time to last over the summer, by then I could buy half a year more at least.
log with accountant addon, see what you get over a 10-15 day period. It's very volatile
And crafting professions still make great armor for use in raids. Even more so thanks to the upgrade system
It's both free and time gated. There's nobody killing spiders for silk to make their new robe, they're either pressing the button once every 2 days in their garrison or they're not.
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My inventory addon adds all my characters gold together and I'm going up by a steady 5k+ per day. Yesterday morning I had 106k, today I had 111k. It's been pretty consistent rate for the 2 weeks I've been following it on the side. I hope they don't take garrisons or the game time tokens away any time soon, I'm loving being able to just chill log for a couple of mins to keep the sub running so I can do the raids each week. It's not like I'm looking for massively more content than raiding, that's where WoW has always been best at.
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United Kingdom20327 Posts
The guys who want to log in for 2.5 hours three times a week are not the ones unhappy with WOD :p
it's the players who either don't focus on a raiding schedule at all or want MORE than a raiding schedule that are hurting
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On June 02 2015 00:31 Cyro wrote:
The guys who want to log in for 2.5 hours three times a week are not the ones unhappy with WOD :p
it's the players who either don't focus on a raiding schedule at all or want MORE than a raiding schedule that are hurting
The thing is WoW has never had real endgame content other then raiding since well.. vanilla.
Yes I am (was really, i quit a few months ago) one of those raiders that logged in for raids and little else and I have always wondered what people at max level who don't raid actually do in game.
Run dungeons for 6 months? You can still do that and it is just as pointless as it has always been.
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Very few people raided before WOTLK and a lot didn't do it until patch 4.3(?) LFR.
In TBC the vast majority of people needed the BOP stuff from professions, didn't have the top tier mount and needed stuff from the heroic dungeons. Four months into the expansion they added two factions with their own dedicated daily quest areas and two of the best mounts available. Grinding was alive and well - for cloth, primals etc. There was a general theme of effort-gating stuff - professions, gold income, even gearing from 5 mans or pvp - it was more about how many hours you played instead of how long you'd sat afk or logged out waiting for a timer to pass.
Overly rewarding people for putting in X amount more hours than other people is bad, but not as bad as simply not rewarding time investment. Rewarding time investment properly is key to making people -want to play your game- which is rather crucial for having a successful subscription or microtransaction based game.
There wasn't actually a point, ever - from 2005 to when i stopped playing in patch 4.2 that i wouldn't want to run at least 1 dungeon per day. In classic and TBC i flat out needed the gear. In WOTLK i needed the tokens, in cata i needed a few bits of gear and then the tokens. In all four of those expansions there was much better reward for grinding materials out in the world and TBC + WOTLK had some great daily quest hubs as well as far better and more rewarding profession systems.
There's a huge difference between "no reward that matters to me" and "no reward that matters to everyone" because as soon as highmaul dropped, WOD dungeons were completely irrelevant. They literally give no reputation, no reward, no gear that you need and the amount of time that they take makes you lose like 500-1k gold from opportunity cost.
Hell, even WOTLK and Cata dungeons gave you some nice mounts.
WOD has the fewest dungeons and the worst incentives to play them in the history of WoW. It has no relevant daily quest hubs for the first time since.. may 2007? Not sure exactly there.. It has no worthwhile mounts to earn. There are major problems with the models and animation for most of the WOD mounts, and the good ones like Rylak's and Fey Dragon's are cash-shop-exclusive models, even if there was a way to earn them. Professions were essentially removed from the game with how crafting is tied to your garrison building and you can make the best items with 0/700 skill, literally - with mining, skinning being worth so little, that it's not worth it to click on a node or corpse that's right next to you. These are pretty hard facts, not really opinion
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You're absolutely correct, it's just hard to see what Blizzard can do at this point.
Blizzard removed Tiered raids, grinds, and farming because of their very negative downsides, but I don't see any easy way to replicate their upsides without reintroducing their downsides. In many ways the genie is out of the bottle, and the latest shenanigans with Garrisons and professions are just the last gasp.
The game is so far removed from what it was in BC it's basically not the same game anymore.
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United Kingdom20327 Posts
Feels more and more like i'm not the target audience at all of this game since they started nerfing stuff a bit after the cata release, but i don't know who the target audience actually is because they removed all of the incentives for everything i did before i was skilled and old enough to raid properly. Patch 2.1 was probably the most enjoyable time in that era of my life, i didn't really start raiding at all until WOTLK.
They had so much stuff then that they failed to come close to matching now, 8 years later. They didn't even try to match most of it. Particularly the daily quest hubs, challenging but rewarding 5 mans for the majority of the population, professions (not time-gated garrison stuff), general ways of earning gold (passive gold income being essentially zero; farming much more worthwhile) but simply having challenging mobs in the world and a few things to aim for like a super expensive but awesome mount upgrade is nice.
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I'm foolishly pinning a lot of my hopes on Mythic dungeons. My guild is small and casual so we can only get 10+ of us together for any significant period of time once a week. 5 people for one or two Mythic dungeons shouldn't be an issue, and will hopefully be fun/challenging enough that people will maybe want to do them on alts after they trounce them with mains.
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United Kingdom20327 Posts
On June 02 2015 04:36 Seuss wrote:
I'm foolishly pinning a lot of my hopes on Mythic dungeons. My guild is small and casual so we can only get 10+ of us together for any significant period of time once a week. 5 people for one or two Mythic dungeons shouldn't be an issue, and will hopefully be fun/challenging enough that people will maybe want to do them on alts after they trounce them with mains.
They look like they will be challenging for pre-raid people, which is nice. You can get 695 gear solo from tanaan and apexis crystals though, as well as crafted gear to 685 quite cheaply and 715(?)~ if you spend more money on it - if the mythic dungeons are tuned for 650 gear then they won't be relevant for long. That's just the way gear scaling is right now
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Quality post by Celestalon on SPs. Also interesting it's his first forum post in 7months. After GC left @warcraftdevs has been huge let down, hopefully we'll more of these posts and less twitter in future too.
Personally happy to see that constructive criticism finally pays off, these problems have been known since beta, dotweaving was talked with devs back in Blizzcon and they said they were fine with it, and shadow has lost a lot of flavour as well. Might be even whole redesign coming in 7.0. Now if they were to do the same thing to WoD.
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CoP is indeed a really stupid talent/playstyle and whoever thought that because you can swap between CoP and AS and that's fine depending on fight *if* you tailor gear sets to it was a complete *beep* *beep*. I mean really? Mastery for CoP is by far the most desired stat, whereas mastery for AS is below even frigging versatility. That means you'd need to have 2 completely different gear sets, basicly sharing only 4 pieces of tier for the bonus and the legendary ring. If that didn't hint to the devs that it's a real shitty way to handle things then...on top of that, shadow isn't a top performer in either role, single or multitarget.
So there you go, for single target you got this unintuitive mess of a rotation that's actually pretty hard to pull off and gets fked up by movement and still doesn't do better than say arcane mage's nearly braindead rotation. Hell, at least AS on multiple targets is somewhat fun, sometimes you experience an Orb explosion, sometimes not, but it's more interesting to play than CoP.
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On June 02 2015 07:44 daemir wrote:
CoP is indeed a really stupid talent/playstyle and whoever thought that because you can swap between CoP and AS and that's fine depending on fight *if* you tailor gear sets to it was a complete *beep* *beep*. I mean really? Mastery for CoP is by far the most desired stat, whereas mastery for AS is below even frigging versatility. That means you'd need to have 2 completely different gear sets, basicly sharing only 4 pieces of tier for the bonus and the legendary ring. If that didn't hint to the devs that it's a real shitty way to handle things then...on top of that, shadow isn't a top performer in either role, single or multitarget.
So there you go, for single target you got this unintuitive mess of a rotation that's actually pretty hard to pull off and gets fked up by movement and still doesn't do better than say arcane mage's nearly braindead rotation. Hell, at least AS on multiple targets is somewhat fun, sometimes you experience an Orb explosion, sometimes not, but it's more interesting to play than CoP.
CoP is quite fun to play though. Ive raided all of lich king and mop as shadow and i really enjoyed the change of pace. But yeah, shadow is in a sad sad state right now and i dont understand why they feel the need to nerf it even more in 6.2 while buffing hunter.
Edit:
Finally, I’d like to talk a bit more about Shadow in general; the big picture, not so much about these specific concerns. We’ve been retrospective lately about where Shadow has come, and how much it truly fulfills its intended fantasy, gameplay style, role, etc. Shadow Priests should be the masters of the shadows cast by the light from the Holy Priests. In terms of lore and fantasy, they should focus on the powers of the Void. However, they’re still Priests; they know that what they’re dabbling with is dangerous, and have to try to go as far as they can without going *too* far. Pain, Insanity, Darkness… These are the tools they use on their enemies, and even a bit on themselves. For the future, we’re looking at ways that we can adjust their gameplay to feel more viscerally “Shadow Priest”. We think some things have worked well (like their DoTs), and other things have worked not so well (like Shadow Orbs). It’s too early to announce anything specific at this point, but we can tell you that there are very significant changes coming to Shadow in a future patch, that we hope will better capture the fantasy, while providing unique gameplay. We're reading all of your feedback, and taking it into account when making these changes.
Ay lmao. How to bullshit 101. Use as many vague terms as possible, offer no real solution but promise there is something coming. No one can disagree and everyone will be happy and feel like they are understood.
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Garrison campaign complete, waiting on war in the jungle : |
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United Kingdom20327 Posts
I fucked up my first mythic cache because i had killed 20 bosses instead of 21, so i still got the heroic one and got worthless item
Finally, 14 days up last night
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/iaA3h.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/iaA7g.jpg)
fuckkkkkkkk
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Yeah, I had a mythic BRF mission today that was 95% unless I deactivated a follower for another for 100% (ty GMM/Master Plan)
Got the shitty versatility/multistrike ring, but an upgrade is an upgrade
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On June 03 2015 15:22 Cyro wrote:I fucked up my first mythic cache because i had killed 20 bosses instead of 21, so i still got the heroic one and got worthless item Finally, 14 days up last night + Show Spoiler +fuckkkkkkkk
Is that a garrison addon ? I need to find this. I just hit 100 ! i'm happy. Now i need to go farm again :p
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United Kingdom20327 Posts
On June 03 2015 19:25 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2015 15:22 Cyro wrote:I fucked up my first mythic cache because i had killed 20 bosses instead of 21, so i still got the heroic one and got worthless item Finally, 14 days up last night + Show Spoiler +fuckkkkkkkk Is that a garrison addon ? I need to find this. I just hit 100 ! i'm happy. Now i need to go farm again :p
Yes it's Master Plan, probably the most used and mandatory WOD addon.
You should look at the most downloaded addons list on curse. There's some great stuff in there like DBM/bigwigs, master plan, weakauras etc which you can't really play the game properly without
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Master plan is in no way mandatory. It is conveniences and nothing more.
Weakaura's depends a lot on your class. If you need to track dots then yes its amazing, otherwise it quickly loses in value.
Bigwigs is only needed if your raiding and DBM is an inferior version of Bigwigs imo.
Yes addons make your life easier but all to often they are seen as required when they really aren't.
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United Kingdom20327 Posts
Master plan is in no way mandatory. It is conveniences and nothing more.
a ridiculous level of convenience though
Weakaura's depends a lot on your class. If you need to track dots then yes its amazing, otherwise it quickly loses in value.
it's very important for some stuff like tracking trinket and ring proc (when they're up, their cooldowns) and both of the specs i use have some amazing weakauras for tracking spec mechanics
Bigwigs is only needed if your raiding and DBM is an inferior version of Bigwigs imo.
If you don't care about convenience or performance, you don't need any addon. That's not logic to dismiss them IMO. Sure, if you don't do any 5 mans or raids in the game you don't benefit from boss mods - i literally don't know a player that fits those criteria though.
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EPT
