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Gruul, Hanz, Maidens, Flamebender, Kromogg, Blackhand. Though perhaps for mythic it wouldn't be as good on Kromogg because you actually need to do a lot more AoE damage to the hands (we have an over-abundance of AoE in my raid, but I'm top damage on the boss himself), and Flamebender because it goes from 3 target cleave to 5 targets. In both those situations, you have to go Cata and that nukes your single target damage significantly and results in a lot of wasted resources (having cata up when there's only 1 target is painful).
The reason why locks are Demo for Mythic Blackhand is because they take the first wave of adds with demonic leap and they have better upfront burst with the starting rotation when they have GoServ/DS. It's possible that DS or even SBH Affliction wouldn't beat demo in P1, but would over the course of the entire fight, but P1 really, really matters. For the record, I typically tie or pass our Demo locks on the 2nd Demolisher in P2.
I have been thoroughly unimpressed with Destro though. Worse at cleave on 5 or less targets than demo, worse at 1-2 targets than Affliction. Theoretically it's really good during the P1->P2 transition of Blast Furnace, but that's about it.
EDIT: Also for non-mythic Oregorger it's quite good. You lose a lot of damage on the boxes, but if they die so fast that your dots don't get time to tick anyway, it hardly matters.
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History is repeating itself. After have 124/125 stones a few weeks ago I now have 299/300 for the last tablet. Atleast I will get it this week from garrison or the mission on saturday.
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On March 12 2015 00:33 deth2munkies wrote:
Gruul, Hanz, Maidens, Flamebender, Kromogg, Blackhand. Though perhaps for mythic it wouldn't be as good on Kromogg because you actually need to do a lot more AoE damage to the hands (we have an over-abundance of AoE in my raid, but I'm top damage on the boss himself), and Flamebender because it goes from 3 target cleave to 5 targets. In both those situations, you have to go Cata and that nukes your single target damage significantly and results in a lot of wasted resources (having cata up when there's only 1 target is painful).
The reason why locks are Demo for Mythic Blackhand is because they take the first wave of adds with demonic leap and they have better upfront burst with the starting rotation when they have GoServ/DS. It's possible that DS or even SBH Affliction wouldn't beat demo in P1, but would over the course of the entire fight, but P1 really, really matters. For the record, I typically tie or pass our Demo locks on the 2nd Demolisher in P2.
I have been thoroughly unimpressed with Destro though. Worse at cleave on 5 or less targets than demo, worse at 1-2 targets than Affliction. Theoretically it's really good during the P1->P2 transition of Blast Furnace, but that's about it.
EDIT: Also for non-mythic Oregorger it's quite good. You lose a lot of damage on the boxes, but if they die so fast that your dots don't get time to tick anyway, it hardly matters.
Go serve demo does the most damage by far in the phase that really matters (p3), does excellent damage on pull so p1 is super good too. There is literally no fight that I can think of that aff out does demo by a significant margin in brf, and the damage on p2 demolishers is insane with gosac/cr destro.
Cata on 5 targets isn't a horrendous st dps loss in the slightest, the free application of doom on 5 targets is a fuck ton of fury saved that is then turned into soulfires to more then make up the difference. If you're truly feeling under the pump on demo for st dps goserv/dserv isn't terrible at all, and on flamebender you'll be swimming in mc procs/fury anyway.
Demo is probably the best spec in the game behind maybe bm hunters atm, but thats more a problem with the mechanics of hunters then a lack of dps from warlocks.
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On March 12 2015 11:00 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 00:33 deth2munkies wrote:
Gruul, Hanz, Maidens, Flamebender, Kromogg, Blackhand. Though perhaps for mythic it wouldn't be as good on Kromogg because you actually need to do a lot more AoE damage to the hands (we have an over-abundance of AoE in my raid, but I'm top damage on the boss himself), and Flamebender because it goes from 3 target cleave to 5 targets. In both those situations, you have to go Cata and that nukes your single target damage significantly and results in a lot of wasted resources (having cata up when there's only 1 target is painful).
The reason why locks are Demo for Mythic Blackhand is because they take the first wave of adds with demonic leap and they have better upfront burst with the starting rotation when they have GoServ/DS. It's possible that DS or even SBH Affliction wouldn't beat demo in P1, but would over the course of the entire fight, but P1 really, really matters. For the record, I typically tie or pass our Demo locks on the 2nd Demolisher in P2.
I have been thoroughly unimpressed with Destro though. Worse at cleave on 5 or less targets than demo, worse at 1-2 targets than Affliction. Theoretically it's really good during the P1->P2 transition of Blast Furnace, but that's about it.
EDIT: Also for non-mythic Oregorger it's quite good. You lose a lot of damage on the boxes, but if they die so fast that your dots don't get time to tick anyway, it hardly matters. Go serve demo does the most damage by far in the phase that really matters (p3), does excellent damage on pull so p1 is super good too. There is literally no fight that I can think of that aff out does demo by a significant margin in brf, and the damage on p2 demolishers is insane with gosac/cr destro. Cata on 5 targets isn't a horrendous st dps loss in the slightest, the free application of doom on 5 targets is a fuck ton of fury saved that is then turned into soulfires to more then make up the difference. If you're truly feeling under the pump on demo for st dps goserv/dserv isn't terrible at all, and on flamebender you'll be swimming in mc procs/fury anyway. Demo is probably the best spec in the game behind maybe bm hunters atm, but thats more a problem with the mechanics of hunters then a lack of dps from warlocks.
I'm talking for affliction, as good as demo is, I fucking hate playing it. And Cata just isn't good on Flamebender. Wolves are every 3 minutes or so, so for 2/3 of the time you're sitting with a fucking useless talent.
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United Kingdom20344 Posts
Compared to WOD leveling, TBC is like holy fuck dungeons everywhere.
at 67 i have access to 13 TBC dungeons. WOD has 8 dungeons, but half of them are level cap only(?)
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Italy12248 Posts
On March 12 2015 12:09 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 11:00 bo1b wrote:On March 12 2015 00:33 deth2munkies wrote:
Gruul, Hanz, Maidens, Flamebender, Kromogg, Blackhand. Though perhaps for mythic it wouldn't be as good on Kromogg because you actually need to do a lot more AoE damage to the hands (we have an over-abundance of AoE in my raid, but I'm top damage on the boss himself), and Flamebender because it goes from 3 target cleave to 5 targets. In both those situations, you have to go Cata and that nukes your single target damage significantly and results in a lot of wasted resources (having cata up when there's only 1 target is painful).
The reason why locks are Demo for Mythic Blackhand is because they take the first wave of adds with demonic leap and they have better upfront burst with the starting rotation when they have GoServ/DS. It's possible that DS or even SBH Affliction wouldn't beat demo in P1, but would over the course of the entire fight, but P1 really, really matters. For the record, I typically tie or pass our Demo locks on the 2nd Demolisher in P2.
I have been thoroughly unimpressed with Destro though. Worse at cleave on 5 or less targets than demo, worse at 1-2 targets than Affliction. Theoretically it's really good during the P1->P2 transition of Blast Furnace, but that's about it.
EDIT: Also for non-mythic Oregorger it's quite good. You lose a lot of damage on the boxes, but if they die so fast that your dots don't get time to tick anyway, it hardly matters. Go serve demo does the most damage by far in the phase that really matters (p3), does excellent damage on pull so p1 is super good too. There is literally no fight that I can think of that aff out does demo by a significant margin in brf, and the damage on p2 demolishers is insane with gosac/cr destro. Cata on 5 targets isn't a horrendous st dps loss in the slightest, the free application of doom on 5 targets is a fuck ton of fury saved that is then turned into soulfires to more then make up the difference. If you're truly feeling under the pump on demo for st dps goserv/dserv isn't terrible at all, and on flamebender you'll be swimming in mc procs/fury anyway. Demo is probably the best spec in the game behind maybe bm hunters atm, but thats more a problem with the mechanics of hunters then a lack of dps from warlocks. I'm talking for affliction, as good as demo is, I fucking hate playing it. And Cata just isn't good on Flamebender. Wolves are every 3 minutes or so, so for 2/3 of the time you're sitting with a fucking useless talent.
On mythic they are about every minute and there's 4 of them instead of 2. I even know of mages going fire with kindling (reduces the combustion cooldown by 1 sec every time you crit, so basically the cd goes to about one minute) so they can combust every set of wolves.
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Hunters are so fun to level lol, took me 10 hours to get to 60, chimera shot one hits pretty much everything. Wat a breeze
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On March 12 2015 15:40 Cyro wrote:
Compared to WOD leveling, TBC is like holy fuck dungeons everywhere.
at 67 i have access to 13 TBC dungeons. WOD has 8 dungeons, but half of them are level cap only(?)
Yeah TBC had amazing dungeons and all of them were fun and very difficult. Meanwhile the WoD 5 mans were way too easy on release and are now a joke. Hell I 4 manned gold challenge mode this week which was supposed to be difficult
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Don't get me wrong, but if you are in a decent mythic guild, you are probably way better than most of the playerbase.
At least I think challenge modes are hard - as tank and I can image even more so as healer. Sure a lot of it is pushing your buttons really hard, but some stuff are really punishing for PUGs, which WoW seems targetted at nowadays...
Edit: on the semi-topic of level design, what do y'all think of elite areas like The Pit, Karsarang Wilds and Shattrath city as future optional quest hubs for leveling? (party pretty much required to get decent kill/downtime speed).
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On March 12 2015 22:33 Duvon wrote:
Don't get me wrong, but if you are in a decent mythic guild, you are probably way better than most of the playerbase.
At least I think challenge modes are hard - as tank and I can image even more so as healer. Sure a lot of it is pushing your buttons really hard, but some stuff are really punishing for PUGs, which WoW seems targetted at nowadays...
Edit: on the semi-topic of level design, what do y'all think of elite areas like The Pit, Karsarang Wilds and Shattrath city as future optional quest hubs for leveling? (party pretty much required to get decent kill/downtime speed).
As a healer its just making sure you manage your mana and have enough potions to use between fights its literally how much money do I want to invest into this CM rather than a challenge
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Challenge Mode difficulty really depends on the dungeon, some are ridiculously easy like Everbloom and Auchindoun and the most difficult part of CMs is finding the most efficient route. Sometimes the damage feels a bit high, but it's no big deal if you have some practice as a healer and the dps aren't in retard mode. If you want CMs to be truly challenging, don't watch any guides and try to find your own route to the final boss. There is a reason 4man groups can sell gold CM achievements.
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On March 12 2015 18:22 Teoita wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 12:09 deth2munkies wrote:On March 12 2015 11:00 bo1b wrote:On March 12 2015 00:33 deth2munkies wrote:
Gruul, Hanz, Maidens, Flamebender, Kromogg, Blackhand. Though perhaps for mythic it wouldn't be as good on Kromogg because you actually need to do a lot more AoE damage to the hands (we have an over-abundance of AoE in my raid, but I'm top damage on the boss himself), and Flamebender because it goes from 3 target cleave to 5 targets. In both those situations, you have to go Cata and that nukes your single target damage significantly and results in a lot of wasted resources (having cata up when there's only 1 target is painful).
The reason why locks are Demo for Mythic Blackhand is because they take the first wave of adds with demonic leap and they have better upfront burst with the starting rotation when they have GoServ/DS. It's possible that DS or even SBH Affliction wouldn't beat demo in P1, but would over the course of the entire fight, but P1 really, really matters. For the record, I typically tie or pass our Demo locks on the 2nd Demolisher in P2.
I have been thoroughly unimpressed with Destro though. Worse at cleave on 5 or less targets than demo, worse at 1-2 targets than Affliction. Theoretically it's really good during the P1->P2 transition of Blast Furnace, but that's about it.
EDIT: Also for non-mythic Oregorger it's quite good. You lose a lot of damage on the boxes, but if they die so fast that your dots don't get time to tick anyway, it hardly matters. Go serve demo does the most damage by far in the phase that really matters (p3), does excellent damage on pull so p1 is super good too. There is literally no fight that I can think of that aff out does demo by a significant margin in brf, and the damage on p2 demolishers is insane with gosac/cr destro. Cata on 5 targets isn't a horrendous st dps loss in the slightest, the free application of doom on 5 targets is a fuck ton of fury saved that is then turned into soulfires to more then make up the difference. If you're truly feeling under the pump on demo for st dps goserv/dserv isn't terrible at all, and on flamebender you'll be swimming in mc procs/fury anyway. Demo is probably the best spec in the game behind maybe bm hunters atm, but thats more a problem with the mechanics of hunters then a lack of dps from warlocks. I'm talking for affliction, as good as demo is, I fucking hate playing it. And Cata just isn't good on Flamebender. Wolves are every 3 minutes or so, so for 2/3 of the time you're sitting with a fucking useless talent. On mythic they are about every minute and there's 4 of them instead of 2. I even know of mages going fire with kindling (reduces the combustion cooldown by 1 sec every time you crit, so basically the cd goes to about one minute) so they can combust every set of wolves.
There are 2 wolf phases per Firestorm? Because Firestorm is every 2 minutes.
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Italy12248 Posts
Ah no my bad i was just dumb. There's still one set per firestorm so it's still every two minutes.
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On March 12 2015 23:12 Teoita wrote:
Ah no my bad i was just dumb. There's still one set per firestorm so it's still every two minutes.
Yeah, so it's at least a minute of downtime at the beginning before the wolves come out, then every ~2 minutes, so for over 50% of the fight you don't have a lvl 100 talent...
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Italy12248 Posts
Can still use cata on pull and on just the boss i guess? I mean, Cata sucks balls overall for Destro and Aff, but honestly those specs are also meh on Flamebender
Why do you dislike Demo btw? My warlock is just an alt but i think it's actually really fun, much more so than Aff
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On March 12 2015 23:18 Teoita wrote:
Can still use cata on pull and on just the boss i guess? I mean, Cata sucks balls overall for Destro and Aff, but honestly those specs are also meh on Flamebender
Why do you dislike Demo btw? My warlock is just an alt but i think it's actually really fun, much more so than Aff
I like DoT juggling on multiple targets a lot. I liked Aff a lot more before Pandemic when it rewarded precision in reapplying DoTs so as not to clip the last tick and such. Nowadays it's much easier but still has the same feel. SBH also requires good risk management as to whether or not you want to use a Soul Shard to Haunt and potentially let the SBH buff fall off. Managing Dark Soul properly and keeping DoTs at over 98% uptime on 2 or more targets is quite difficult on its own, but is manageable.
The problem that I have with demo is that it's way too chaotic. What you're doing at any given time is conditional on tons of outside factors, you often have to pop into and out of demonform just to refresh Doom if you have it on multiple targets, and I've been over spamming Shadowbolt for 7 years now. There's not even any real action with the demon anymore, it feels just like every other spec in that regard. All that's not to mention that they pretty much stripped away everything cool about Demonform by just giving you more powerful versions of the abilities you already had instead of adding new functionality to them. TBH, figuring out whether I should be demonforming on half energy to use Chaos Wave on a particular pack, or just HoG it and use demonform later to get a shitload of damage is not really a calculus I can do on the fly. Calculating whether using a shard on Seed to get some extra cleave damage is much simpler.
Put simply: the rotation is too complex and dependent on fight conditions for it to be possible to optimize it. The optimal way to play Demo changes every single time you do a fight, and it's impossible to tell if you're doing it optimally. I prefer a simple, but difficult to execute optimally spec over one that's both extremely complex AND difficult to execute optimally, because I can't really control the former.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On March 12 2015 22:51 nimbim wrote:
Challenge Mode difficulty really depends on the dungeon, some are ridiculously easy like Everbloom and Auchindoun and the most difficult part of CMs is finding the most efficient route. Sometimes the damage feels a bit high, but it's no big deal if you have some practice as a healer and the dps aren't in retard mode. If you want CMs to be truly challenging, don't watch any guides and try to find your own route to the final boss. There is a reason 4man groups can sell gold CM achievements.
I route 12 hour JRPG speedruns for fun and in comparison challenge modes are kinda easy to find a route for 
Also Blizzard are dumb when it comes to challenge modes leaderboards and they kind of need to get the speedrun community to take over so they can fix the mess it is.
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Italy12248 Posts
Fair enough deth2munkies. To be honest, from the sound of it you should just reroll a mage >.> simple rotation that's hard to optimize is basically how every spec is built
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On March 13 2015 00:16 Teoita wrote:
Fair enough deth2munkies. To be honest, from the sound of it you should just reroll a mage >.> simple rotation that's hard to optimize is basically how every spec is built
Eh, too much casting, I like my DoTs. I'm actually learning Death Knight. Frost is hilariously simple with huge numbers and gives me a big enjoy factor, and I'm at the point in Unholy where I can only do it optimally if I ignore everything else going on and stand in fire  Blood has a billion fucking cooldowns and I need to find new hotkeys for them...
On March 13 2015 00:05 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2015 22:51 nimbim wrote:
Challenge Mode difficulty really depends on the dungeon, some are ridiculously easy like Everbloom and Auchindoun and the most difficult part of CMs is finding the most efficient route. Sometimes the damage feels a bit high, but it's no big deal if you have some practice as a healer and the dps aren't in retard mode. If you want CMs to be truly challenging, don't watch any guides and try to find your own route to the final boss. There is a reason 4man groups can sell gold CM achievements. I route 12 hour JRPG speedruns for fun and in comparison challenge modes are kinda easy to find a route for Also Blizzard are dumb when it comes to challenge modes leaderboards and they kind of need to get the speedrun community to take over so they can fix the mess it is.
Go route Bravely Default plz.
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Demo isn't even half as complicated now as it was in mop :\ wtb snapshotting, pst.
In all honesty a lot of the problems you might be having could be solved with a good ui, mainly something to track trinket procs.
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EPT
