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On May 29 2013 06:26 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 05:11 Yurie wrote:On May 29 2013 03:30 aksfjh wrote:On May 28 2013 02:49 TheRabidDeer wrote:On May 27 2013 23:16 dcemuser wrote:On May 26 2013 02:48 AnomalySC2 wrote:On May 26 2013 02:18 s3rp wrote:On May 26 2013 02:08 AnomalySC2 wrote:On May 26 2013 01:58 Rollin wrote:On May 26 2013 01:20 Saumure wrote:As an engineer, I am pretty happy they made a new kinect, hoping it will be at least as or more awesome than the first one  I've had some university colleagues working on some very cool kinect projects. If it's truly "so much better" as they say it will be really cool to see what happens! You can't possibly be serious. How could anyone be positive about the kinect-voyeur-cam. I do think Kinect can be used for cool things ( was even shown) . If and thats a big if it wasn't directly connected to a machine that needs to check-in to a company server every 24hours and sends collected Data to it that the company can directly sell or flat out give to just about anyone they wish. Yeah that's kind of how I look at it. It's impressive tech but the privacy issues are beyond absurd. Can't believe MS are even trying to go down that path. Said the opponents of the radio, the telephone, photographs, film, television, computers, the internet, cell phones, and basically anything done past the invention of the wheel. In this case, as usual, the privacy issues are concerns of people who have no clue how technology works. A) Everyone and their mother and their mother's server admin is going to notice if Xbox One transmits absolute fucktons of data back to Microsoft for normal Kinect usage. B) Seriously, people propose that Microsoft is going to analyze hundreds of thousands of gamers each with hours upon hours of video/microphone/real-life telemetry per week. The processing power, data storage, and internet requirements do not EXIST to handle that much data in one place. Twitch is a professional service that serves less than a million simultaneous users on probably less than 2000-3000 streams at once and can't hold its servers stable and people are suggesting that this is possible? If Microsoft could pull anything even close to what is being suggested, we should just hand them the keys to planet Earth and say "go crazy". If we were living in 2150, you'd have a point. I'd be agreeing and nodding my head. In 2013, the people making these 'privacy concern' arguments look crazy. Seriously. You might as well make the argument that your cell phone is recording all of your calls because it's a vastly more valid argument than the Kinect 2.0 one. Audio data by itself is quite small, FYI. Also, if MS (already a giant tech corporation with a lot of server overhead) wanted to track millions, they could. Twitch handles tons of people watching live video streaming and was organized without major funding that MS has available, youtube handles even more than that. Both Twitch and Youtube are FREE, the xbone costs money (even monthly). Then you also have to account for the potential funding from the government to help them get it put in. Just remember this, facebook had 190k servers last year and is able to keep up with millions upon millions of people accessing it (over 618 million daily). MS claims to be using 300k for the xbone. Of course, audio can be compressed quite a bit. However, to analyze it, you have to use a tremendous amount of processing power, and the same with video. Ideally, you would offset this by running the analysis on each machine (which it does already while active). The catch is that you would notice if it's doing this 100% of the time, since the processing power that is needed is quite large for doing real-time analysis of either video or audio (and even more for both). If they instead record and send the data offsite for analysis, we'll see the footprint in the transmission. Encoding and compressing audio and/or video, again, takes a lot of processing power (not as much as analysis, but still quite a bit), so they would have to send it raw or minimally compressed, which greatly increases the network footprint. Either way, if they snoop, people will notice and raise a fuss. No need to throw a fit over it before it launches though. If I was going to do it I would only run it when system usage was below a certain %. It would mean I didn't get full coverage but it wouldn't disturb the end user. It would still be noticeable due to expected power saving features not kicking in (power usage being measurable and comparable to similar systems). I have no opinion on the issue, I just think you made it a bit too extreme in both directions. I'm doing high level research and design in speech and voice recognition right now, using both high powered PC processors and microcontrollers. The Kinect 2 likely uses the same max processing power as Kinect (less than 10% of the system processor), so system % usage is likely a non-issue. Low power mode for speaker independent speech and voice recognition usually means a noise filter and listening for a very, very small vocabulary (10-20 words max). It should basically ignore any other words and sounds to keep down processing power and memory needs. Even then, however, with 24 bits of audio stream at a sampling rate of 16kHz, that's a lot of processing power needed (I'm going to estimate at least a 500 MHz for real-time lossless analysis every ~20ms). Just running the FFT on 24-bit samples is absurd in terms of processing needs, then they have to run the filters and check against the "standard" command samples. Or they can just compress it and send it to Microsoft so they can get YouTube level transcripts from 5,000 different people a day. Since the gripe is apparently over it being used while the system is "off" or in stand-by, this is where the "people will notice" line comes from. You can't run a high end processor, even at 10-15% processor usage, without sucking 10-100W, which far surpasses the norm for "stand-by."
I'd like to know what processor draw 100w at 10-15%
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On May 30 2013 06:51 nam nam wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 06:26 aksfjh wrote:On May 29 2013 05:11 Yurie wrote:On May 29 2013 03:30 aksfjh wrote:On May 28 2013 02:49 TheRabidDeer wrote:On May 27 2013 23:16 dcemuser wrote:On May 26 2013 02:48 AnomalySC2 wrote:On May 26 2013 02:18 s3rp wrote:On May 26 2013 02:08 AnomalySC2 wrote:On May 26 2013 01:58 Rollin wrote:
[quote]
I've had some university colleagues working on some very cool kinect projects. If it's truly "so much better" as they say it will be really cool to see what happens! You can't possibly be serious. How could anyone be positive about the kinect-voyeur-cam. I do think Kinect can be used for cool things ( was even shown) . If and thats a big if it wasn't directly connected to a machine that needs to check-in to a company server every 24hours and sends collected Data to it that the company can directly sell or flat out give to just about anyone they wish. Yeah that's kind of how I look at it. It's impressive tech but the privacy issues are beyond absurd. Can't believe MS are even trying to go down that path. Said the opponents of the radio, the telephone, photographs, film, television, computers, the internet, cell phones, and basically anything done past the invention of the wheel. In this case, as usual, the privacy issues are concerns of people who have no clue how technology works. A) Everyone and their mother and their mother's server admin is going to notice if Xbox One transmits absolute fucktons of data back to Microsoft for normal Kinect usage. B) Seriously, people propose that Microsoft is going to analyze hundreds of thousands of gamers each with hours upon hours of video/microphone/real-life telemetry per week. The processing power, data storage, and internet requirements do not EXIST to handle that much data in one place. Twitch is a professional service that serves less than a million simultaneous users on probably less than 2000-3000 streams at once and can't hold its servers stable and people are suggesting that this is possible? If Microsoft could pull anything even close to what is being suggested, we should just hand them the keys to planet Earth and say "go crazy". If we were living in 2150, you'd have a point. I'd be agreeing and nodding my head. In 2013, the people making these 'privacy concern' arguments look crazy. Seriously. You might as well make the argument that your cell phone is recording all of your calls because it's a vastly more valid argument than the Kinect 2.0 one. Audio data by itself is quite small, FYI. Also, if MS (already a giant tech corporation with a lot of server overhead) wanted to track millions, they could. Twitch handles tons of people watching live video streaming and was organized without major funding that MS has available, youtube handles even more than that. Both Twitch and Youtube are FREE, the xbone costs money (even monthly). Then you also have to account for the potential funding from the government to help them get it put in. Just remember this, facebook had 190k servers last year and is able to keep up with millions upon millions of people accessing it (over 618 million daily). MS claims to be using 300k for the xbone. Of course, audio can be compressed quite a bit. However, to analyze it, you have to use a tremendous amount of processing power, and the same with video. Ideally, you would offset this by running the analysis on each machine (which it does already while active). The catch is that you would notice if it's doing this 100% of the time, since the processing power that is needed is quite large for doing real-time analysis of either video or audio (and even more for both). If they instead record and send the data offsite for analysis, we'll see the footprint in the transmission. Encoding and compressing audio and/or video, again, takes a lot of processing power (not as much as analysis, but still quite a bit), so they would have to send it raw or minimally compressed, which greatly increases the network footprint. Either way, if they snoop, people will notice and raise a fuss. No need to throw a fit over it before it launches though. If I was going to do it I would only run it when system usage was below a certain %. It would mean I didn't get full coverage but it wouldn't disturb the end user. It would still be noticeable due to expected power saving features not kicking in (power usage being measurable and comparable to similar systems). I have no opinion on the issue, I just think you made it a bit too extreme in both directions. I'm doing high level research and design in speech and voice recognition right now, using both high powered PC processors and microcontrollers. The Kinect 2 likely uses the same max processing power as Kinect (less than 10% of the system processor), so system % usage is likely a non-issue. Low power mode for speaker independent speech and voice recognition usually means a noise filter and listening for a very, very small vocabulary (10-20 words max). It should basically ignore any other words and sounds to keep down processing power and memory needs. Even then, however, with 24 bits of audio stream at a sampling rate of 16kHz, that's a lot of processing power needed (I'm going to estimate at least a 500 MHz for real-time lossless analysis every ~20ms). Just running the FFT on 24-bit samples is absurd in terms of processing needs, then they have to run the filters and check against the "standard" command samples. Or they can just compress it and send it to Microsoft so they can get YouTube level transcripts from 5,000 different people a day. Since the gripe is apparently over it being used while the system is "off" or in stand-by, this is where the "people will notice" line comes from. You can't run a high end processor, even at 10-15% processor usage, without sucking 10-100W, which far surpasses the norm for "stand-by." I'd like to know what processor draw 100w at 10-15%
Idle power consumption of many processors. That takes into consideration the entire system, and we can imagine whatever the XB-one uses is going to be a power hog. The power requirements would likely increase exponentially with device usage (minus the idle power), so 10-15% would probably take 4-8% of the difference between peak and idle power usage, which means +6-12W on top of idle at least.
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On May 30 2013 06:31 Dark_Chill wrote:Since I imagine a lot of hardware people will be in this thread ready to bear their fangs at console specs, and this is an active console thread (a bit xbox specific, but none the less), can anyone tell me if there's any legitimacy in what this person is saying? WiiU gpu stuff
It might be ahead in terms of architecture/support dx11 type stuff (which could be considered a generation). But in terms of raw power, it is only about 2x as powerful at best (most things say around 1.5x better).
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-wii-u-graphics-power-finally-revealed
This puts it miles behind the PS4/xbone
The fact that Nintendo is so reluctant to reveal exact specs of the GPU should be an indicator that it doesnt have much faith in comparisons.
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On May 29 2013 07:39 BillGates wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2013 05:32 FluffyBinLaden wrote:On May 29 2013 05:29 Bub wrote:
Wtf? Even more reason not to buy one. This is becoming more and more of a joke. I think a lot of these things are just bandwaggoned rumors, though. Honestly, there's enough legitimized stuff to hate on while we wait for confirmation of these other things. Just take it slow and give them a chance to prove themselves. You never know, they might save it, somehow. Doubtful, but maybe. Windows 8 ! Nuff said. + Show Spoiler +Do you want chat channels?
Shit, forgot that OS existed. O.o Okay, you have bested me.
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Based on that article, it looks like PS4 is going to take this generation really easily. From what I understand, the WiiU's first few games are going to be bad (like many consoles), but this will be even longer as developers will take longer to get the most out of the system. Meanwhile, from what I understand, PS4 is going to be pretty easy to develop for. Xbox is going to do pretty badly most likely, maybe not in the US though.
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On May 28 2013 23:17 Brett wrote:
People must really like Halo and Gears to even be considering purchasing this system at this point. The Kinect and the potential issues and abuses that go with it are mind-boggling the more I think and hear about it.
Maybe, I did really like Halo and I played loads of Gears aswell but Halo 4 was terrible for me. A completely different game.
Bungie however is currently busy with Destiny which seems to be a game I might buy an Xbox One for. However Destiny will also be available on the 360, PS3 and PS4.
There's several things I dont like about the One. Mainly the used games part, about 40% of my games are used ones. Excellent games I buy for the full price but some just aren't worth the €60 so I usually buy them second hand at a price I feel fits the game more. It also messes with me bringing a game too a friends house to show it too him. I assume I'd have to retrieve my own XboxLive account on his console and install the game and all. Sounds very tedious too me.
I'll stick to PC gaming for now and if I later on get a console for Destiny 2 down the line it'll probably be a PS4 sadly.
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Looks like dem hardcore gamers getting screwed on this console.
PS4 will probably be my choice instead
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I don't think that the xbox one will be as bad as everyone thinks. We have only really heard about the system itself and not so much about games and it's titles. This will most likely be revealed on e3. And also whats so bad about tv? the fact that you can watch movies or series you like on the same system as you game on is awesome.
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On June 06 2013 03:43 Jan1997 wrote:
I don't think that the xbox one will be as bad as everyone thinks. We have only really heard about the system itself and not so much about games and it's titles. This will most likely be revealed on e3. And also whats so bad about tv? the fact that you can watch movies or series you like on the same system as you game on is awesome.
I think it comes down more to price. With all these features, the cost is going to go up with it, especially since didn't microsoft announce the addition of a shit-ton of servers?
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On June 06 2013 03:45 Dark_Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2013 03:43 Jan1997 wrote:
I don't think that the xbox one will be as bad as everyone thinks. We have only really heard about the system itself and not so much about games and it's titles. This will most likely be revealed on e3. And also whats so bad about tv? the fact that you can watch movies or series you like on the same system as you game on is awesome. I think it comes down more to price. With all these features, the cost is going to go up with it, especially since didn't microsoft announce the addition of a shit-ton of servers?
Those shit-ton of servers are to store all that lovely footage/data they exploit out of everyone with their creepy ass kinect voyeur cam. I don't care what games they have up their sleeves, pass. The gaming industry is shady enough as is.
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http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/main <- official xbox website, by the way.
No renting, no loaning. No private sales (unless selling to someone who has been on your friends list for 30 days)
Console Checks in Every 24 hours
Trade-ins are up to the publisher and only at participating retailers
You can give a game to a friend only if they have been on your friends list for 30 days, and then it is stuck with them.
Up to 10 family members can play your games from any console at any time
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They really aren't coming down from any of these ridiculous claims are they? I guess they really want to crash and burn.
Don't tell me when I can and cannot give a game to friend after I bought it fair and square. Guess I'll never find any old games at yard sales anymore or buy from a friend since no private sales anymore.
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On June 07 2013 07:23 a176 wrote:http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/main <- official xbox website, by the way. Show nested quote +No renting, no loaning. No private sales (unless selling to someone who has been on your friends list for 30 days)
Console Checks in Every 24 hours
Trade-ins are up to the publisher and only at participating retailers
You can give a game to a friend only if they have been on your friends list for 30 days, and then it is stuck with them.
Up to 10 family members can play your games from any console at any time
That is absolutely hilarious...
Why the fuck have the 30 day restriction if you are basically giving the game away forever anyways...
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Imagine.
Publishers want every dollar, so they institute the used games policy.
But they went EVEN FURTHER and now you can't lend your games to your own friends and family, otherwise forcing you to buy another copy as it becomes theirs.
WOW.
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I'd love to know what was said in the focus groups on all this shit.
I really hope that Microsoft is preparing to offer superior content on this machine. I have been an XBox guy since the first one came out, but I have some reservations about this new one.
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It's gonna be fun answering questions at work when people ask me about the new Xbox console and which one is better (between the PS4). Been a Xbox guy since the original came out but I'm not even gonna buy one this generation. I'll kindly be directing everyone I have a chance to talk to to the PS4 or Wii U.
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I'm also reading that Microsoft has cancelled all their post-e3 press interviews, lol.
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If anyone buys a Xboxone I have to question your state of mind. Well, really, you're more renting than owning. Maybe if the console was quite cheap and the prices for games were sliced in half...
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All I know is that you better put a towel over that fucker before you have any sex on the couch.
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Why so much hate? I use my Xbox way more for other apps than gaming. In fact, in the past month, I used my Xbox every single day, but not once for games, despite the fact that I love gaming - just no good games out lately.
You guys can all hate, but honestly I think Xbox is going to do just fine. And more importantly, if it can play the same games as PS4, while doing a bunch of extra stuff, why the heck wouldn't you want it? I think people are losing sight of the fact that while it isn't the PS4 in specs, it will be much better than the 360 (a good device) and will play everything just fine.
And as for the used games/internet connection outrage... whatever. I'll get mad about it when I see it. But honestly I don't share games with people, and the GameStop CEO has already confirmed they'll still deal in Used Games for the Xbox One.
Calm down. Xbox will be great for games (not the best), and it will be great at a bunch of other things too. Kinect is whatever, but I use the voice commands all the time - it's so good to do things like change channels and switch apps without needing to find my damn controller all the time. There will be issues but I'm prepared to endure them for the overall package of things I'll be getting. You guys can go whine about the Xbox and worship your PS4's and claim you don't need all the extra things, until one day you get it and you realize what you've been missing out on.
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EPT
