I think Knicks gave HOU cash to cover Douglas's contract

If JR is resigned he should still come off the bench, don't know who the starting SG would be but it won't matter as he wont be expected to do anything except play defense in limited minutes.

QTIP.

United States2113 Posts

July 10 2012 01:20 GMT

#542

On July 10 2012 10:10 Ace wrote:
Well yea Shumpert is out till January though. Are they going to start JR Smith then? They REALLY need to go into the playoffs with a top seed to avoid facing Miami/Indy/Boston in the first round again.

They have to start JR Smith, unless they want to meet Landry's terrible terrible offer sheet. Absolutely, they need to be the 2/3 seed to have any chance of making a dent these playoffs. They are built for "win now" but so are the Heat, Celtics, Nets, and the Bulls / Pacers are both dangerous teams.

MassHysteria

United States3678 Posts

July 10 2012 01:25 GMT

#543

On July 10 2012 10:14 zulu_nation8 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I think Knicks gave HOU cash to cover Douglas's contract

Ya you are probably right on that. Still his salary though which is nice for HOU.

NY should have tried to get Lee in this deal as well I think (even though that isn't a head-turner either). Plays D, doesn't hog ball or need a lot of shots, and is decent and improving at the 3pt shot. He is like a perfect complement/opposite to JR Smith lol.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

July 10 2012 01:28 GMT

#544

Agreed. I'd rather have Courtney Lee on some super cheap contract in the starting line up if I'm the Knicks with JR coming off the bench.

Doraemon

Australia14949 Posts

July 10 2012 01:32 GMT

#545

so...we've lost both of our pgs and centres...and the asik/lin combo as the replacement might not even happen. wtf is going on

QTIP.

United States2113 Posts

July 10 2012 01:32 GMT

#546

These are valid points. Unfortunately: http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/8145369/free-agent-courtney-lee-confirms-interest-boston-celtics

QTIP.

United States2113 Posts

July 10 2012 01:33 GMT

#547

On July 10 2012 10:32 Doraemon wrote:
so...we've lost both of our pgs and centres...and the asik/lin combo as the replacement might not even happen. wtf is going on

Lol, don't worry. I'm pretty sure you guys got Asik. Massively overpaid, but its tough to see the Bulls matching that for a backup big.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

July 10 2012 01:36 GMT

#548

By the way I still think Camby is a great pickup for the Knicks. They just really need to address that wing defense + scoring. If they can I actually think they have a shot at being a playoff contender.

RowdierBob

Australia13406 Posts

July 10 2012 01:42 GMT

#549

If Houston really is still interested in dealing for Dwight (regardless of a longer-term commitment) then it would be criminal to send him to the Nets. I really can't believe Lopez and three late first rounders is the best deal they can get for him.

Especially with Lopez at the max (which to my understanding would be worth $14mill?!). Houston could put together a much better package for an Orlando rebuild after they lose Dwight. I mean, fuck, I'd rather let Dwight walk for nothing in FA than get lumped with Lopez at the max.

QTIP.

United States2113 Posts

July 10 2012 01:42 GMT

#550

You don't think Jeremy Lin / JR Smith / Carmelo Anthony / Amare Stoudemire + Novak off the bench is enough when it comes to offensively minded players?

Camby addresses what they need most, which is not giving up +12 more PPG when Chandler sits. The biggest issue with the team is its synergy between its star players.

Elite wing defenders are extremely rare, and a good defensive system/coaching (Mike Woodson) is enough for the Knicks.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

July 10 2012 01:45 GMT

#551

Not at all. Just putting a bunch of guys who can shoot 3s and one who has a post game doesn't equal great offense. Not enough high efficiency players to get the best offensive unit running yet.

On July 10 2012 10:42 RowdierBob wrote:
If Houston really is still interested in dealing for Dwight (regardless of a longer-term commitment) then it would be criminal to send him to the Nets. I really can't believe Lopez and three late first rounders is the best deal they can get for him.

Especially with Lopez at the max (which to my understanding would be worth $14mill?!). Houston could put together a much better package for an Orlando rebuild after they lose Dwight. I mean, fuck, I'd rather let Dwight walk for nothing in FA than get lumped with Lopez at the max.

People are seriously scared of the "do nothing" option. It really is a good alternative to mediocrity sometimes.

QTIP.

United States2113 Posts

July 10 2012 01:46 GMT

#552

On July 10 2012 10:45 Ace wrote:
Not at all. Just putting a bunch of guys who can shoot 3s and one who has a post game doesn't equal great offense. Not enough high efficiency players to get the best offensive unit running yet.

I can't disagree with you more here. Teams like Philly don't have good offenses. Teams that start Melo, Jlin, Amare, JR Smith are not teams that have trouble scoring points.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

July 10 2012 01:49 GMT

#553

Really? You don't think the Knicks have major offensive issues? I'm interested to hear why. I said last year signing an inefficient scorer in Melo + another one in JR Smith would lead to issues for the Knicks. I don't think Amar'e and Jlin are the big problems there. Getting a solid 25 from Melo and even 10 from JR smith is the huge problem the Knicks have offensively. Neither are top tier scorers in the league and it's been that way their entire careers.

QTIP.

United States2113 Posts

July 10 2012 01:49 GMT

#554

They have enough talent on their team to generate the scoring. The key isn't adding more scorers, it's finding out how to make the pieces fit. No one looks at the Knicks and wonders if they have enough offense to hang in the league. The Synergy between Melo+Amare has been abysmal. They need oil to run smoothly, and bringing in JKidd for 20/25 minutes a game is a good step.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

July 10 2012 01:52 GMT

#555

What? Plenty of people looked at Knicks once they traded for Melo and wondered about the offense. It was a big issue for people who, ya know actually watched his inefficient scoring doom Denver multiple times throughout his career. You don't just add a bunch of scorer together and think they'll magically hit 100 points a night. Efficiency is a major stumbling block that seperates true Superstar driven offenses from what the Knicks have.

RowdierBob

Australia13406 Posts

July 10 2012 02:04 GMT

#556

The Knicks didn't work last season and there's nothing to suggest they'll work next season. They're a deeper team no doubt, but the same fundamental flaws still exist in their offense particularly (Kidd will help, but not greatly IMO). I think the Knicks are underrated by many defensively (but with Shump missing much of next year, they prob do need a better wing defender).

QTIP.

United States2113 Posts

July 10 2012 02:09 GMT

#557

Point taken... I agree with everything that you're saying but I don't think the issue with the Knicks' struggles comes from Melo/JR Smith's inefficient shooting. JR Smith was returning from a season in China where his shot was far from NBA form, and Carmelo was dealing consistently with injuries and never really had an opportunity to mesh with Jeremy Lin. Amare returned overweight due to back surgery, and hadn't touched a basketball in 3 months. His explosiveness / jumpshot all were far below his previous level, where he finished 3rd in MVP voting. In terms of offensive efficiency, all three of these players under-performed relative to their career averages. Throw in all this with a shortened season, no training camp, a coaching change which resulted in a heavy change in offensive / defensive philosophy (D'antoni -> Woodson), I don't think the Knicks' efficiency can be fairly evaluated. There have been way too many fluctuations in lineups, and personnel changes. Give them a training camp to figure out how to play together, and I still have confidence that this team can figure it out with their current roster.

QTIP.

United States2113 Posts

July 10 2012 02:16 GMT

#558

On July 10 2012 11:04 RowdierBob wrote:
The Knicks didn't work last season and there's nothing to suggest they'll work next season. They're a deeper team no doubt, but the same fundamental flaws still exist in their offense particularly (Kidd will help, but not greatly IMO). I think the Knicks are underrated by many defensively (but with Shump missing much of next year, they prob do need a better wing defender).

Agreed... but health was way too great of an issue for the Knicks. The constant revolving door of point guards, Melo's nagging injuries, Amare trying to get back in basketball shape, and even coaching changes is something that hurt the Knicks considerably.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

July 10 2012 02:29 GMT

#559

QTIP the problem is that their Career Averages and playoff numbers(Melo, JR) aren't efficient enough to begin with

ETA: I do think health and line up changes screwed them over worse than they were going to get screwed anyway.

QTIP.

United States2113 Posts

July 10 2012 02:34 GMT

#560

On July 10 2012 11:29 Ace wrote:
QTIP the problem is that their Career Averages and playoff numbers(Melo, JR) aren't efficient enough to begin with

ETA: I do think health and line up changes screwed them over worse than they were going to get screwed anyway.

I won't disagree with you there, but if Kobe can win titles playing as inefficiently as he does, I'll hold out hope that Melo can be the star player on a championship caliber team as well.