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Porn is a walking death machine, it only ruins lives. I know from experience. It does not provide lasting happiness or fulfillment. It wastes money and shames individuals.
Keep it out of esports, out of everywhere. It's a symptom and a contributor to laziness and lack of self discipline. There is no good at all to come of it.
Breaking news: oral sex leads to increased risk of HPV.
Seriously though, no one in their right mind should want their spouse or bf/gf to watch porn. You should not be "enough," you should be their everything.
Terribly conservative and traditional these views may be, but I only intent to teach others to avoid the misery that always comes after. Porn is the worst drug.
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On April 04 2012 05:41 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:39 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:36 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 04 2012 05:32 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:20 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:14 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:10 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host. The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose. It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages. You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason. OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there" Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?" Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals. I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies. As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me. I'd say a large reason a lot of people would have problems with it would be if they are parents. They don't want their 13 year old, who's probably watching porn anyways behind their parents back, to think it's acceptable. Just like they'd be very upset if a cigarette company sponsored as well. Constant exposure of the 13 year old to the industry via video games would probably piss the parents off. I understand your point. But I'd wager that same kid would see about 10 times more alchohol and cigarette advertisements in his daily life than one logo off a shirt. Cigarette advertisements have been massively toned down in the U.S., and alcohol is actually quite hard to purchase yourself if you're under 21. Heavily regulated. Porn, on the other hand, is a click away. And it's not porn itself, but more so the image it represents, embracing sexuality or whatever. Which makes parents think they're kid is going to have a kid at age 15.
Of course it's hard to purchase alcohol if you're under 21, but it's easy to find someone/obtain alcohol through other means. Hell, in some areas in the states, obtaining alcohol is just as simple as a clicking your way into a porn site.
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On April 04 2012 05:42 StarBrift wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:37 RoosterSamurai wrote:On April 04 2012 05:32 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:20 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:14 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:10 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host. The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose. It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages. You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason. OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there" Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?" Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals. I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies. As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me. Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement. What makes you entitled to an opinion if other people aren't allowed to have an opinion? You think porn is perfectly tasteful, ok that's fine. But why cant others feel that it's distasteful? I'm confused. Sure they can, but I made the argument that distaste is irrelevant. Also my earlier points claim that distaste that evolves into outrage over porn is illogical and unreasonable. Anyone is allowed to be illogical and unreasonable. I'd just rather not spend my time around such people if I can help it which is why I made the joke about the space ship.
I'm going to give you some advice that will help you in your lifetime. Whatever you do, do not pursue a career in marketing. At least, not in the US. Not sure how things are over there in Sweden, but look at it this way. As super peachy and tasteful as you believe porn is, what do you think would happen if, instead of redeemable music codes beneath the caps of soda bottles, pepsi decided to put redeemable porn codes under their bottle? I assure you coke would dominate in sales, and pepsi would be firing it's marketing staff.
You need to get it through your head that taste or distaste really is relevant. This is about marketing, not paving the way for sexuality or moral and social advancement. Who knows, maybe in 10 or 15 years sex will be completely socially acceptable and it may even be a main selling point for all products. It could become an industry standard. But right now, it's a terrible idea. I sincerely hope you get this.
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On April 04 2012 05:41 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:39 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:36 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 04 2012 05:32 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:20 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:14 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:10 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host. The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose. It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages. You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason. OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there" Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?" Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals. I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies. As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me. I'd say a large reason a lot of people would have problems with it would be if they are parents. They don't want their 13 year old, who's probably watching porn anyways behind their parents back, to think it's acceptable. Just like they'd be very upset if a cigarette company sponsored as well. Constant exposure of the 13 year old to the industry via video games would probably piss the parents off. I understand your point. But I'd wager that same kid would see about 10 times more alchohol and cigarette advertisements in his daily life than one logo off a shirt. Cigarette advertisements have been massively toned down in the U.S., and alcohol is actually quite hard to purchase yourself if you're under 21. Heavily regulated. Porn, on the other hand, is a click away. And it's not porn itself, but more so the image it represents, embracing sexuality or whatever. Which makes parents think they're kid is going to have a kid at age 15.
Good points again. But I don't think you can solely blame porn for teenage pregnancy. I know for a fact that many states in the US has horrible sex education. Parents are also really bad at controlling what their young teens do at the computer becuase they don't know anything about computers (this is global I'd assume). Those two things coupled with easily accesible porn works together to make that problem bigger.
I personally think that the sex ed part is the most crucial one as the statistics in teen pregnancy quite clearly shows. Maybe there should even be a porn awareness part of sex ed where the teacher tells the kids that porn is not real, girls you don't have to do that thing etc. I guess that probably allready exists in a lot of sex ed curiculum. Can't say for sure as I had mine over 10 years ago before internet porn.
I don't think you can stop teens getting exposed to porn. You can only explain to them that it's not real and everyone doesn't like doing that etc. I also don't believe that having a brazzers logo on an FGC stream will harm any kids or make more teenage pregnancies.
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Dont think Brazzer should be in esports I am sorry it doesnt help our image. I know we are stretching for sponsors and money and so forth.. but something in your head must tell you this wont work out... esports is a passion not just in it for the money I understand you gotta eat I understand you gotta pay the rent i get this shit.. i work a full time job on TOP of gaming, as I am sure most of us do. My point is there are tons of other sponsors out there..and if the FGC would just be more patient they will have there time just like counterstrike / sc2 / LoL / dota ... its coming u guys have been waiting just wait a lil longer and intel / others will join the sponsor train.. its just sad we have to do with with a porn site and really offset the sponsors...
I
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On April 04 2012 05:47 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:42 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:37 RoosterSamurai wrote:On April 04 2012 05:32 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:20 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:14 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:10 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host. The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose. It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages. You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason. OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there" Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?" Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals. I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies. As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me. Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement. What makes you entitled to an opinion if other people aren't allowed to have an opinion? You think porn is perfectly tasteful, ok that's fine. But why cant others feel that it's distasteful? I'm confused. Sure they can, but I made the argument that distaste is irrelevant. Also my earlier points claim that distaste that evolves into outrage over porn is illogical and unreasonable. Anyone is allowed to be illogical and unreasonable. I'd just rather not spend my time around such people if I can help it which is why I made the joke about the space ship. I'm going to give you some advice that will help you in your lifetime. Whatever you do, do not pursue a career in marketing. At least, not in the US. Not sure how things are over there in Sweden, but look at it this way. As super peachy and tasteful as you believe porn is, what do you think would happen if, instead of redeemable music codes beneath the caps of soda bottles, pepsi decided to put redeemable porn codes under their bottle? I assure you coke would dominate in sales, and pepsi would be firing it's marketing staff. You need to get it through your head that taste or distaste really is relevant. This is about marketing, not paving the way for sexuality or moral and social advancement. Who knows, maybe in 10 or 15 years sex will be completely socially acceptable and it may even be a main selling point for all products. It could become an industry standard. But right now, it's a terrible idea. I sincerely hope you get this.
Hey another person that doesn't read the post he replies to HERPDERP. I'm getting pretty tired of replying to you folks but here goes.
I have never said that the people in charge of marketing today are being stupid by adhering to the people's ignorance. I have merely said that people are ignorant! Additionally I would like to see a world where people were not so ignorant! Is that simple enough for everyone else that wants to reply to my posts in the future?
Also no I'm not looking to get into the manipulation buisness that is marketing or law. I studied both breifly and found that I wouldn't enjoy my life aspiring to be the one that can bend the truth most effectively.
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This is a terrible idea.
I see it happening: "So you like esports?" "yup" "So you watch porn all day?"
This will give esports a bad name.
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Get the fuck out porn fucker. We don't fucking need you. GTFO
User was warned for this post
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The context behind Brazzers as a sponsor is to mock Starcraft and other more popular esports that have large sponsorships behidn them.
The fighting game community is split between people who want to see it grow and become a popular sport, and people who like it staying small and niche and 'underground'.
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On April 04 2012 05:59 Fealthas wrote:
This is a terrible idea.
I see it happening: "So you like esports?" "yup" "So you watch porn all day?"
This will give esports a bad name.
To be fair that's kinda the same as being sponsored by an energy drink or hot pockets for example. People will try to stereotype people now matter what.
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Just imagine Day9 and djWheat promote Brazzers in between games at MLG, haha awkward ;D
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On April 04 2012 05:32 StarBrift wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:20 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:14 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:10 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host. The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose. It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages. You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason. OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there" Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?" Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals. I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies. As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me. Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement.
You're arguing from the false assumption that that you represent the majority viewpoint, and the only opposition to this is an outspoken, bigoted minority.
I want to say first that I agree with you, it really shouldn't matter what kind of business sponsors something, as long as it's legal, people should get over it.
However, you have to understand that your viewpoint is extremely narrow. Ok, maybe this is fine in Europe. Do you know what percentage of the world's population lives in Europe? It's only 11%. So, even if every single person in Europe agreed with you (they don't by the way), you would have a small impact on the overall perception of this issue. We want ESPORTS to be global, do you have any idea how poorly something like this would go over in India? It's easy to dismiss cultural differences between the US and Europe as just backwardness and bigotry, but do you really want to go after 90% of the world's population with that argument?
Also, you're arguing that the only possible reason for people to be against this is some sort of prejudice. This is also blatantly false. I know several forward thinking women who identify themselves as feminists who would be extremely against a Brazzer's sponsorship for ESPORTS. They're not against porn in and of itself, but feel that society's growing acceptance of hypersexualized and often derogatory images of women can only lead to problems. Keep in mind these are very reasonable people, not the militant "all men are evil rapist" feminists I'm sure a lot of you are picturing. This issue would clearly fit into that category, since there's no real link between video games and sex, other than both sell quite well. So, are these women bigoted? Can you dismiss their argument out of hand because you're from Europe and thus represent the enlightened, majority viewpoint?
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On April 04 2012 05:45 Ansinjunger wrote:
Porn is a walking death machine, it only ruins lives. I know from experience. It does not provide lasting happiness or fulfillment. It wastes money and shames individuals.
Keep it out of esports, out of everywhere. It's a symptom and a contributor to laziness and lack of self discipline. There is no good at all to come of it.
Breaking news: oral sex leads to increased risk of HPV.
Seriously though, no one in their right mind should want their spouse or bf/gf to watch porn. You should not be "enough," you should be their everything.
Terribly conservative and traditional these views may be, but I only intent to teach others to avoid the misery that always comes after. Porn is the worst drug.
Everyone that says that shit quietly faps alone at night, and feel terrible when the have to clean up the mess.
It's ok ;D
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On April 04 2012 06:02 JackDT wrote:
The context behind Brazzers as a sponsor is to mock Starcraft and other more popular esports that have large sponsorships behidn them.
The fighting game community is split between people who want to see it grow and become a popular sport, and people who like it staying small and niche and 'underground'.
If you think LI Joe is one of the people that want to keep the FGC purely underground you are sorely mistaken. He's been critical but by no means is he one of those people that would rather see it die than get to the next level. Joe is probably one of the few that seems genuinely enthusiastic about making fighting games a big thing.
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On April 04 2012 06:07 StarBrift wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 06:02 JackDT wrote:
The context behind Brazzers as a sponsor is to mock Starcraft and other more popular esports that have large sponsorships behidn them.
The fighting game community is split between people who want to see it grow and become a popular sport, and people who like it staying small and niche and 'underground'. If you think LI Joe is one of the people that want to keep the FGC purely underground you are sorely mistaken. He's been critical but by no means is he one of those people that would rather see it die than get to the next level. Joe is probably one of the few that seems genuinely enthusiastic about making fighting games a big thing.
I'm not familiar with the FGC -- he's on the 'esport' side?
Then I really don't get what he's doing. The FGC just got a huge amount negative press after that female competitor quit early from the Capcom livestream because she was so uncomfortable with the sexual harassment, and then the behavior was defended over and over again an 'essential element' of the community. How in the world does he think THIS is a good idea unless he wants to kill the potential for fighting games to expand their audience?
From Fishtix, showing the other side of the FGC:
LG (multi-national corporation) sponsors #FGC and its corporate bullshit, Brazzers sponsor #FGC and its totally cool. REAL FUCKING SMART :\
Apparently #FGC can't help but shoot itself in the foot over and over. This is a horrible look on all levels. And no one is speaking out?
if you think mainstream gaming sites posts are stupid bullshit no one cares about, i really have nothing more to say
something like, oh, i dunno, every single major gaming news outlet bashing the FGC isn't exactly a good thing
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The promotions they could do will be hilarious.
Enter the promo code "terrible terrible damage" and get access to porn VOD's
Then they could edit Day9 screaming at banelings into a climax scene in a porno.
THIS... IS.... ESPORTS!
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On April 04 2012 05:30 JackDT wrote:
The only girl I know in 'real life' who plays Starcraft had to change her name from her real first name (one that was obviously female) to something ambiguous to avoid being harassed in ladder games.
The only 40+ I know who follows Starcraft got into it because his 8 and 10 year old both watch tournaments online and follow their favorite players and he wants to share that experience with them.
I'd love to get my coworkers interested in Starcraft. But every time I'm on ladder and my opponent goes off an a racist/homophobic/misogynistic tirade, of is just generically an asshole, I am reminded of why I haven't yet. This would be yet another hurdle to overcome. I'd be embarrassed if they tried Starcraft on my suggestion and were like, "So THIS is the awesome community you were talking about?"
Do you ever want Starcraft and esports to grow beyond a 99% male, 16-22, socially stereotyped, demographic?
IDK if you're new to this anonymous medium, but this happens all over the internet and in internet games... not just starcraft. I agree its pretty dog ethic but people need tougher skin and not expect that the internet is a nice place where everyone respects each other. As long as SC exists on the internet with a playerbase that includes ego driven children, it isn't going to be a place where you should expect proper conversation O_O
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On April 04 2012 06:13 askTeivospy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:30 JackDT wrote:
The only girl I know in 'real life' who plays Starcraft had to change her name from her real first name (one that was obviously female) to something ambiguous to avoid being harassed in ladder games.
The only 40+ I know who follows Starcraft got into it because his 8 and 10 year old both watch tournaments online and follow their favorite players and he wants to share that experience with them.
I'd love to get my coworkers interested in Starcraft. But every time I'm on ladder and my opponent goes off an a racist/homophobic/misogynistic tirade, of is just generically an asshole, I am reminded of why I haven't yet. This would be yet another hurdle to overcome. I'd be embarrassed if they tried Starcraft on my suggestion and were like, "So THIS is the awesome community you were talking about?"
Do you ever want Starcraft and esports to grow beyond a 99% male, 16-22, socially stereotyped, demographic? this happens all over the internet, not just starcraft. I agree its pretty dog ethic but people need tougher skin and not expect that the internet is a nice place
But it does NOT happen when you watch an MLG tournament, or any Starcraft tournament, and that's what we're talking about here. Places we CAN control it.
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On April 04 2012 06:05 TrickyGilligan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:32 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:20 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:14 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:10 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host. The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose. It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages. You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason. OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there" Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?" Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals. I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies. As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me. Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement. You're arguing from the false assumption that that you represent the majority viewpoint, and the only opposition to this is an outspoken, bigoted minority. I want to say first that I agree with you, it really shouldn't matter what kind of business sponsors something, as long as it's legal, people should get over it. However, you have to understand that your viewpoint is extremely narrow. Ok, maybe this is fine in Europe. Do you know what percentage of the world's population lives in Europe? It's only 11%. So, even if every single person in Europe agreed with you (they don't by the way), you would have a small impact on the overall perception of this issue. We want ESPORTS to be global, do you have any idea how poorly something like this would go over in India? It's easy to dismiss cultural differences between the US and Europe as just backwardness and bigotry, but do you really want to go after 90% of the world's population with that argument? Also, you're arguing that the only possible reason for people to be against this is some sort of prejudice. This is also blatantly false. I know several forward thinking women who identify themselves as feminists who would be extremely against a Brazzer's sponsorship for ESPORTS. They're not against porn in and of itself, but feel that society's growing acceptance of hypersexualized and often derogatory images of women can only lead to problems. Keep in mind these are very reasonable people, not the militant "all men are evil rapist" feminists I'm sure a lot of you are picturing. This issue would clearly fit into that category, since there's no real link between video games and sex, other than both sell quite well. So, are these women bigoted? Can you dismiss their argument out of hand because you're from Europe and thus represent the enlightened, majority viewpoint?
I don't think I've ever stated that I held a majority viewpoint. Quite on the contrary I have said several times that I'm in the minority and that's why I made my joke about the spaceship etc. I do however claim to be right. I do this based on the arguments I put forth. You are one of the few people that has actually contested them with a real meaningful argument not based on "the world is fucked now live with it".
The feminism perspective is something I have respect for. I agree that women are depicted very unrealistically in mainstream porn. I do not however agree that said porn should be shunned and destroyed because of this. People need to be able to take responsibility for their own actions. Being an adult and not understanding that Brazzers type porn does not reflect reality is a personal problem. It's not Brazzers responsibility to inform people that what they're watching is a fictional fantasy world. People should be intelligent enough to understand that at an adult age.
When we come to teens that question becomes more of a gray area. But as I said earlier I think that's why we need sex ed and paren't need to speak to their kids about the fact that this porn is not real.
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On April 04 2012 06:12 JackDT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 06:07 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 06:02 JackDT wrote:
The context behind Brazzers as a sponsor is to mock Starcraft and other more popular esports that have large sponsorships behidn them.
The fighting game community is split between people who want to see it grow and become a popular sport, and people who like it staying small and niche and 'underground'. If you think LI Joe is one of the people that want to keep the FGC purely underground you are sorely mistaken. He's been critical but by no means is he one of those people that would rather see it die than get to the next level. Joe is probably one of the few that seems genuinely enthusiastic about making fighting games a big thing. I'm not familiar with the FGC -- he's on the 'esport' side? Then I really don't get what he's doing. The FGC just got a huge amount negative press after that female competitor quit early from the Capcom livestream because she was so uncomfortable with the sexual harassment, and then the behavior was defended over and over again an 'essential element' of the community. How in the world does he think THIS is a good idea unless he wants to kill the potential for fighting games to expand their audience? From Fishtix, showing the other side of the FGC: Show nested quote +LG (multi-national corporation) sponsors #FGC and its corporate bullshit, Brazzers sponsor #FGC and its totally cool. REAL FUCKING SMART :\ Show nested quote +Apparently #FGC can't help but shoot itself in the foot over and over. This is a horrible look on all levels. And no one is speaking out? Show nested quote +if you think mainstream gaming sites posts are stupid bullshit no one cares about, i really have nothing more to say Show nested quote +something like, oh, i dunno, every single major gaming news outlet bashing the FGC isn't exactly a good thing
It's been previously said in this thread, don't let the one jerk off from Cross Assault make the entire FGC look like a sexist bunch. He was an idiot for doing it, and attempted to defend his behavior like you said, deeming sexism as an "essential element' of the community. It's sad that the FGC, which is relatively underground, recieved a mess of bad PR because Aris decided to be a dumbass. But with how money/sponsorships are in the FGC, this Brazzers thing will either do a world of good, or a world of hurt. Also, Fishtix is indeed up in arms about this, but once again one does not represent all. While he may have an issue with it, he doesn't rep the other side of the FGC all by himself.
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EPT
