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On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
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Wait, so the fighting game community isn't actually doing this, right? I read the OP but I got kinda confused <_<
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as pointed out previously several times is that the problem lies in major companies not wanting their logo displayed next to that of a porn company. also regardless of how you feel on the issue, parents are probably not going to react too well if they see or hear that Brazzers or any other other similar company is sponsoring a player/team in SC2 or any sport for that matter.
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Porn, it's KILLING e-sports!
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On April 04 2012 05:02 Mohdoo wrote:
Wait, so the fighting game community isn't actually doing this, right? I read the OP but I got kinda confused <_<
There is no official contract yet, but he spoke with someone high up in brazzers marketing department and he said that they want to sponsor him aswell as possibly form a team and throw their own tournaments.
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IMO nothing wrong with brazzers, they offer a great product, solid, professional. Their site is great, all the content arranged by tags, performers and a massive selection to choose from. Nothing wrong with associating companies like that. And yes it IS good for esports to promote safe sex and anti-contraception etc.
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Really how is this more frowned upon than ads for liquor...(not that there were any in esports)
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On April 04 2012 05:03 Azuroz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:02 Mohdoo wrote:
Wait, so the fighting game community isn't actually doing this, right? I read the OP but I got kinda confused <_< There is no official contract yet, but he spoke with someone high up in brazzers marketing department and he said that they want to sponsor him aswell as possibly form a team and throw their own tournaments.
Hilarious. The FGC had such opportunities to legitimize themselves, but their "pillars" continue to drop the ball over and over again. Shame, really.
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On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
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On April 04 2012 05:07 isleyofthenorth wrote:
Really how is this more frowned upon than ads for liquor...(not that there were any in esports)
The korean brood war team CJ Entus was sponsored by a korean bear company called Hite, and they even renamed their team to Hite Entus, atleast for a while.
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On April 04 2012 05:09 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:03 Azuroz wrote:On April 04 2012 05:02 Mohdoo wrote:
Wait, so the fighting game community isn't actually doing this, right? I read the OP but I got kinda confused <_< There is no official contract yet, but he spoke with someone high up in brazzers marketing department and he said that they want to sponsor him aswell as possibly form a team and throw their own tournaments. Hilarious. The FGC had such opportunities to legitimize themselves, but their "pillars" continue to drop the ball over and over again. Shame, really.
you know nothing about them. the majority don't want to "legitmize" themselves. they like being more underground, running everything themselves, and having more of a sense of community.
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On April 04 2012 05:10 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host. The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
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On April 04 2012 01:18 emc wrote:
not a big deal if the game is rated M because you have to be 18 to play the game and porn is legally only for 18+. I think the issue comes in when a game is rated T because not all the players are legal. I don't know the specifics but I'd argue that would be a reason why this would be controversial. Anyways, the more money in any esports scene the better.
At least in my state, it isn't illegal to be under age and play rated M games. It is simply the suggested age. The only people who restrict it are the game stores; it is their policy to not sell M games to underage players, not a legal policy.
Edit:
On topic, I don't have an issue here. As long as they aren't showing boobs on streams to children and simply advertising as an adult site, this is no problem. I can't believe there is outrage over this, but not things like alcohol. Underage drinking is a bigger problem than a young child seeing some porn, imo.
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Why is porn age restricted anyway? It's only natural
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You are theorycrafting so hard, it's not even funny. Instead of just asking someone at MLG how they feel about such sponsors, you just keep on rambling how Brazzers would kill SC2. And as far as I know, SC2 is quite far from being openly sponsored by Coca-Cola or Pepsi, so don't compare the companies, when the sponsorship from them doesn't even exist. There were no single indication that Brazzers would advertise themselves through porn scenes or whatever. Brand itself is recognized enough to put only a banner. Just don't blow this out of proportion until you have good information on how other sponsors or how tournaments' organizators would react.
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On April 04 2012 05:16 nymfaw wrote:
Why is porn age restricted anyway? It's only natural
Becuase kids as young as 10 aren't physically or mentally evolved enough to have sex in a healthy way. Even if our societies didn't have a stigma about underage sex those would still be facts.
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Strong Island Joe is the best, I'm happy this happened to him.
Not sure how this will all workout though, Capcom certainly wont allow Brazzers to use their titles in an hypothetic tournament, current events TOs seem either to dislike the move or support it but wont show anything related to the brand on stream... Hope he finds a way to make it work.
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On April 04 2012 05:14 StarBrift wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:10 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host. The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose. It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?"
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EPT
