The premise: Long Island Joe has been trolling fighting game tournaments by tagging himself as Brazzers LI Joe, and this weekend reality has been imitating satire and Brazzers is interested in forming a team and even hosting it's own events.
Fighting game players frequently troll each other by making fun of teams comparable to a teamless player entering an MLG as Complexity Razor Evil Geniuses Esports Liquid *actualplayernamehere* - they've seen sponsors come and go and they take themselves a lot less seriously than other gaming communities.
For example on a lot of fighting game streams the n word is thrown around pretty casually - even at sponsored events and sponsored streams. We've seen what that does to someone in the Starcraft community but it seems an accepted part of the FGC. ( fighting game community ).
I also see some comedy value in the aspect that companies and sponsors are more than happy to associate with games that feature beating up/killing the opponents character, have plenty of fanservice and nakedness, and yet throw a fit at the thought of a porn company sponsoring anything involved with it.
( That weird thing where you can happily show people getting shot/murdered/whatever brutally on a TV show and happily sell adverts from major international corporations , but you can't show a bit of boobage ).
What if Brazzers diversify their esports division ( lol ) and want to enter sponsored SC2 events?
MLG will have to deal with the issue soon anyway if LI Joe does go ahead with this sponsorship at the teams players would likely be entered in the fighting games MLG hosts at the moment.
On the one hand it's a legal industry and I don't have a problem with it personally - on the other hand it's a pretty easy stick to beat the esports industry with by anyone who wants to make a fuss about it.
LI Joe interview with Brazzers exec where it was announced:
The Evo Tournament organisers have already said they would ban any logos/mention of the sponsorship on their streams.
On April 04 2012 01:42 Klonere wrote: Intel, Kingston, Razer etc would never ever allow their brands alongside Brazzers. Ever.
This.
People who think it's cute to have a porn company associated with eSports have not thought things through. We're already viewed as a risky investment for most companies and this would only discourage reputable companies from becoming engaged. Not only that, there's a good chance we'd lose many of the brands that already support us.
not a big deal if the game is rated M because you have to be 18 to play the game and porn is legally only for 18+. I think the issue comes in when a game is rated T because not all the players are legal. I don't know the specifics but I'd argue that would be a reason why this would be controversial. Anyways, the more money in any esports scene the better.
On April 04 2012 01:18 emc wrote: not a big deal if the game is rated M because you have to be 18 to play the game and porn is legally only for 18+. I think the issue comes in when a game is rated T because not all the players are legal. I don't know the specifics but I'd argue that would be a reason why this would be controversial. Anyways, the more money in any esports scene the better.
The M rating is for 17+. The AO rating is for 18+. I know it's only a year but that alone is enough to create legal issues.
On April 04 2012 01:22 solidbebe wrote: There are alot of people <18 watching SC2 events/streams. Something would need to be done against this for any tournament to keep legally streaming.
Well there's plenty of advertising of beer and stuff on tv, at any time of the day.
On April 04 2012 01:22 solidbebe wrote: There are alot of people <18 watching SC2 events/streams. Something would need to be done against this for any tournament to keep legally streaming.
Well there's plenty of advertising of beer and stuff on tv, at any time of the day.
On April 04 2012 01:22 solidbebe wrote: There are alot of people <18 watching SC2 events/streams. Something would need to be done against this for any tournament to keep legally streaming.
Well there's plenty of advertising of beer and stuff on tv, at any time of the day.
Yeah but is there porn?
On cable there is for like Playboy TV and shit like that
As a fighting game player, I think this is awesome. FGC doesn't really have much in the way of sponsorship as is, so we don't have much to lose anyway.
Also people are overreacting to it. Brazzers sponsoring LI Joe means he gets flown out to more tournaments, enters are ZZ or BRZ | LI Joe etc, and wears or maybe hands out Brazzers t shirts. Nothing bad about that.
Also, the product requires users to be over 21, just like alcohol. Last I checked, alcohol has had no problem being a main sponsor of mainstream sporting events etc.
All they would have to do is put a disclaimer of 18+ performance only watch if your over 18 yadadadada like they do on the internet. If they come forward with money you can't really turn them down!
haha - this is actually funny. Though I can understand tournaments and publisher that don`t want to be related to this kind of industry, because a huge part of their target market are underaged kids.
simply put theyd never be able to enter the SC2 market becuase none of the tournaments would want to advertise to kids that they are being supported by a porn site so they wouldnt actually be able to advertise for them
This would be cool the comercial doesn't have to be something super provactive. Tv and streams already play the Ashley Madison commercial on every channel and that shows people bout to sex I'm sure Brazzers could come up with something that is just some logos and says Adult site then have sexy girls go to tournaments to promote and that'd work just fine.
To be honest a team of female players would be cool, but a male progamer other than incontroll advertising porn? Seems awkward to me. They might have Problems finding players.
Well Brazzers is known in the porn industry, in the end it is just a brand name though. If they want to throw money into esports to sponsor teams, why would it be a problem it is not like they are going to be having porn stars nude on stage acting out a scene or anything like that, they might have pornstars as booth babes at live events advertising their company, which is no different from any other company using booth babes as advertisement.
Hmm. I'm okay with this, Brazzers is a really good website lol
EDIT: omg can you imagine Kingston style commercials? Putting korean progamers in a commercial with porn stars would probably the best thing to ever happen to man kind. Or them making a cameo in a scene. Oh god the potential is too funny to pass up
On April 04 2012 01:22 solidbebe wrote: There are alot of people <18 watching SC2 events/streams. Something would need to be done against this for any tournament to keep legally streaming.
Well there's plenty of advertising of beer and stuff on tv, at any time of the day.
Yeah but is there porn?
How many infomercials for girls gone wild videos are there on TV? they don't have to show anything to be referring to porns
The fighting game scene is a huge disgusting joke, lol. Try being a woman in it, or even worse, a transsexual, and you will get treated like absolute trash.
Which makes it funny that they would ban any logos of Brazzers on their stream. Really, porn isn´t ok, but all the other shit that goes on in the fighting game community is...
On April 04 2012 01:22 solidbebe wrote: There are alot of people <18 watching SC2 events/streams. Something would need to be done against this for any tournament to keep legally streaming.
Well there's plenty of advertising of beer and stuff on tv, at any time of the day.
Yeah but is there porn?
There is advertising for sex shop and related stuff, i mean, they won't be showing porn, just the name of the site.
My point was relating advertising for 18+ anyways.
On April 04 2012 01:41 vOdToasT wrote: The fighting game scene is a huge disgusting joke, lol. Try being a woman in it, or even worse, a transsexual, and you will get treated like absolute trash.
Which makes it funny that they would ban any logos of Brazzers on their stream. Really, porn isn´t ok, but all the other shit that goes on in the fighting game community is...
Kayo Police and Ricky Ortiz get treated fine, don't let one asshat on cross assault ruin the impression for you :p
On April 04 2012 01:42 Klonere wrote: Intel, Kingston, Razer etc would never ever allow their brands alongside Brazzers. Ever.
Yeah that's the reason this won't happen, most other sponsors would never in a million years allow their brand on the same shirt as a brazzers logo. So for a organisation, picking up brazzers as a sponsor would not be good for business.
On April 04 2012 01:22 solidbebe wrote: There are alot of people <18 watching SC2 events/streams. Something would need to be done against this for any tournament to keep legally streaming.
Well there's plenty of advertising of beer and stuff on tv, at any time of the day.
Yeah but is there porn?
How many infomercials for girls gone wild videos are there on TV? they don't have to show anything to be referring to porns
those commericals are always extremely late at night, so if any tournament got sponsored by Brazzers theres probably some countries it couldnt be shown in, they would ahve to run the tournament late at night and if they released VoDs in order to watch them youd have to sign up and say your over 18
because if one kid sees the tournament, sees brazzers and goes to there site and gets caught by there parent (or is dumb enough to tell there parent) then the tournament will probably get sued until it doesnt exist anymore
On April 04 2012 01:42 Klonere wrote: Intel, Kingston, Razer etc would never ever allow their brands alongside Brazzers. Ever.
This.
People who think it's cute to have a porn company associated with eSports have not thought things through. We're already viewed as a risky investment for most companies and this would only discourage reputable companies from becoming engaged. Not only that, there's a good chance we'd lose many of the brands that already support us.
As an aspiring smut peddler I feel this is good for eSports. Porn is the oldest industry on the web and there's plenty of money sitting in the coffers of porn producers which can be used for a good cause. Bravo, Brazzers! I'm all for a "mature" audience, too. Adults are the ones with the money anyway.
The UFC require fighters sponsors to apply for sponsorship approval and a sponsorship fee to be an approved sponsor ( $50k ).
It lets them filter undesireable sponsors from their fighters. I'd imagine if Brazzers starts seriously putting money in - then major tournaments would probably make players sign similar contracts requiring sponsor approval ( obviously for $0 fee or a $10-20 fee ) rather than the UFCs $50k fee :p
They don't allow gun companies and some others to sponsor - but they do allow massive condom depot logos on shorts... some weird things there.
The UFC took this action primarily to get rid of white power t-shirt brands advertising - and to stop affliction when it was a rival promotion from advertising on the UFCs content.
There is already the controversy in the United States about the video game industry and the content it creates. There is still the old controversy on whether or not games cause, or there is any correlation between it and real life violence. Remember the Hot Coffee incident with GTA? Yeah....
So, considering we're trying to legitimize Starcraft II and e-Sports as a legitimate means of competition and take it to the main stream, I would say no. Having this type of company sponsor e-Sports, no matter HOW MUCH MONEY THEY HAVE, would be bad. It would give the impression to the general public that it's possibly indicent.
Also, teenagers, who are not of legal age to watch adult material, WATCH STREAMS AND EVENTS. How would that look to the main stream media? At MLG, there have been very very young competitors (PokeBunny was underage, and I saw pictures of a very very young boy competing as well.) Since the age range of COMPETITORS ALONE is so wide (10-30+), it would create conflicts with the decency laws in various states, and within the U.S. Federal Government that MLG/IPL/NASL would NOT WANT TO DEAL WITH.
On April 04 2012 01:21 Kuni wrote: Would be kind of interesting, if one were to watch an MLG with their 12 year old son and suddenly all the brazzers commercials would pop up :-D
I would switch your use of the word "interesting" with "fucking terrible."
On April 04 2012 01:49 zturchan wrote: Question - Why is the Maxim Gamer Girl thing OK, but not this?
These are completely different issues. The fact that they are both "sex related" does not make them at all the same.
On April 04 2012 01:49 zturchan wrote: Question - Why is the Maxim Gamer Girl thing OK, but not this?
Maxim is a mens magazine, i wouldnt exactly call that porn. Yes they have pictures of females in very little clothes but they also have alot of other content
On April 04 2012 01:37 Twistacles wrote: EDIT: omg can you imagine Kingston style commercials? Putting korean progamers in a commercial with porn stars would probably the best thing to ever happen to man kind. Or them making a cameo in a scene. Oh god the potential is too funny to pass up
On April 04 2012 01:44 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote: This is just bad If you want Esports to hit the main stream, you can't have Porn sponorships for the love of God
This basically sums up my thoughts. Society has a label on certain things. Porn and Drugs have a very negative connotation to it, while Alcohol and Smoking are more accepted. We can try to argue that one is actually better then the other, but its the fact that that is how things are. You can complain how Jersey Shore and Justin Bieber are the worst things ever, but they sell and get ratings lol, you can try to convince the world that it is not worth it to listen/watch them, but more then likely you wont be able to convince the world.
So to put it simply, you want your community to grow, a porn company sponsor doesnt help growth. Mainstream shuns it, and it will shun anything its involved with.
It's relevant that they're just planning to sponsor a player and possibly their own event at this point, not necessarily trying to advertise through other events.
On April 04 2012 01:41 vOdToasT wrote: The fighting game scene is a huge disgusting joke, lol. Try being a woman in it, or even worse, a transsexual, and you will get treated like absolute trash.
Which makes it funny that they would ban any logos of Brazzers on their stream. Really, porn isn´t ok, but all the other shit that goes on in the fighting game community is...
Really? The fighting game scene is probably the most diverse and accepting community I've ever come across.
On April 04 2012 01:18 emc wrote: not a big deal if the game is rated M because you have to be 18 to play the game and porn is legally only for 18+. I think the issue comes in when a game is rated T because not all the players are legal. I don't know the specifics but I'd argue that would be a reason why this would be controversial. Anyways, the more money in any esports scene the better.
The M rating is for 17+. The AO rating is for 18+. I know it's only a year but that alone is enough to create legal issues.
thought M was 18, I guess they changed it a couple years ago. when I bought Halo 3 they asked for ID because I had to be 18+ and it's rated M. Go figure, there is hardly any violent action in the game, just rag doll physics compared to Gears which is one of the most violent MP games around.
On April 04 2012 01:53 Ognam wrote: It's a personal sponsor for one individual player. They're not "sponsoring e-sports" or getting commercial spots on streams.
Chill out.
They are considering a team and/or their own tournaments.
If they offer $50k-$100k prize money at a Brazzers tournament - are players like Justin Wong/Ricky Ortiz going to be prevented from attending by EG due to sponsorship implications?
Also let's say it's Streetfighter - Capcom are pretty lax about letting people run tournaments/make money from coverage of their game which Blizzard for example are pretty strict about - I could see Capcom taking legal action to prevent a Brazzers tournament using their games.
As a sidenote you could see unaffiliated players who make money from streaming take a Brazzers sponsorship on their stream to display the logo 24/7 - as they have no corporate masters to be scared of.
On April 04 2012 01:41 vOdToasT wrote: The fighting game scene is a huge disgusting joke, lol. Try being a woman in it, or even worse, a transsexual, and you will get treated like absolute trash.
Which makes it funny that they would ban any logos of Brazzers on their stream. Really, porn isn´t ok, but all the other shit that goes on in the fighting game community is...
Really? The fighting game scene is probably the most diverse and accepting community I've ever come across.
I've tried to interact with the fighting game community over the years. They tend to be very standoffish and racists. Starcraft II and RTS communities (Even MMO communities like WoW and The Old Republic [A.i.E]) have been far more accepting and reasonable with peoples differences.
The fighting game community still thinks it's at the arcade, and people are not watching their antics.
On April 04 2012 01:41 vOdToasT wrote: The fighting game scene is a huge disgusting joke, lol. Try being a woman in it, or even worse, a transsexual, and you will get treated like absolute trash.
Which makes it funny that they would ban any logos of Brazzers on their stream. Really, porn isn´t ok, but all the other shit that goes on in the fighting game community is...
On April 04 2012 01:30 zul wrote: haha - this is actually funny. Though I can understand tournaments and publisher that don`t want to be related to this kind of industry, because a huge part of their target market are underaged kids.
but kids want to be adults so bad! so it's a perfect marketing scheme
On April 04 2012 01:41 vOdToasT wrote: The fighting game scene is a huge disgusting joke, lol. Try being a woman in it, or even worse, a transsexual, and you will get treated like absolute trash.
Which makes it funny that they would ban any logos of Brazzers on their stream. Really, porn isn´t ok, but all the other shit that goes on in the fighting game community is...
I can't tell if this is satire or ignorance.
Two of the most famous people in the fgc are gay
Another famous person is a transexual mtf
Yeah, don't let one silly jerk off during cross assault and an over the top article on kotaku give you the impression that everyone in the FGC is hardcore sexist etc.
On April 04 2012 01:58 Skilledblob wrote: it always surprised me how the country with the biggest porn industry can be so stuck up about it.
By shunning porn they save face and eSports goes down with honour. What a crying shame. Maybe it should all just crash and burn so we can stop the discussions.
On April 04 2012 01:18 emc wrote: not a big deal if the game is rated M because you have to be 18 to play the game and porn is legally only for 18+. I think the issue comes in when a game is rated T because not all the players are legal. I don't know the specifics but I'd argue that would be a reason why this would be controversial. Anyways, the more money in any esports scene the better.
The M rating is for 17+. The AO rating is for 18+. I know it's only a year but that alone is enough to create legal issues.
thought M was 18, I guess they changed it a couple years ago. when I bought Halo 3 they asked for ID because I had to be 18+ and it's rated M. Go figure, there is hardly any violent action in the game, just rag doll physics compared to Gears which is one of the most violent MP games around.
It's always been 17. And yes, they check your ID because you have to by 17+, lol.
On April 04 2012 01:58 Skilledblob wrote: it always surprised me how the country with the biggest porn industry can be so stuck up about it.
It's so ingrained in the culture that nudity/sex are massively taboo, but violence is ok. I never questioned it until I was talking to a few Europeans and they brought up how it was almost the opposite in Europe, and I didn't really have much to rebuttal them on why our policies are as such.
This seems like a really good fit for fighting games to me honestly, it's silly and a bit outlandish but the kind of sponsorship that community seems way more willing to embrace than anything a bit more mainstream. I hope it does well.
The legality and "OH GOD THINK OF THE CHILDRENS!" inherent in a sponsorship by Brazzers (seriously, some parents would absolutely flip if their kids just knew the word (well, OK, after they find out what it means themselves)) make this highly unlikely to ever take off in a big way. Then again, illegal bootlegging, alcohol, and tobacco made NASCAR what it is today.
While I personally wouldn't care if Brazzers was a sponsor of a team with good players, I am not certain the general community at large wouldn't be upset over hypocritical morality issues (as opposed to all of the underlying societal issues which make them hypocritical) in any one region of the US, not to begin to think of the more global community. (Heck, isn't it illegal for Bomber to even play a slot machine while waiting for the GSTL finals by Korean law?)
On April 04 2012 02:08 heyoka wrote: This seems like a really good fit for fighting games to me honestly, it's silly and a bit outlandish but the kind of sponsorship that community seems way more willing to embrace than anything a bit more mainstream. I hope it does well.
Yeah. Dead or Alive sponsored by Brazzers, perfect match.
On April 04 2012 02:05 pPingu wrote: I don't know if it would please the other sponsors
Imagine Incontrol saying
"Thank you to my sponsors, Monster Energy, Steelseries, Intel, Brazzers, Bigfoot,..."
And isn't it considered like porn advertisement? I think it's illegal in some countries
I am not sure, either, but it is not the image some people want for Esports. I don't think it is going to stop the players from taking part in the tournaments, but I don't want it to become a distraction if it happens. It should be about the players, the games and the event, rather than other things that have little to do with Esports.
On April 04 2012 01:41 vOdToasT wrote: The fighting game scene is a huge disgusting joke, lol. Try being a woman in it, or even worse, a transsexual, and you will get treated like absolute trash.
Which makes it funny that they would ban any logos of Brazzers on their stream. Really, porn isn´t ok, but all the other shit that goes on in the fighting game community is...
Kayo Police and Ricky Ortiz get treated fine, don't let one asshat on cross assault ruin the impression for you :p
Ricky Ortiz is a homosexual. I wasn´t talking about homosexuals. My girlfriend was a Guilty Gear and Soul Calibur player for a while and won a bunch of tournaments, and was very much involved in the community. I´m not pulling stuff out of my ass. The only reason she quit was because of the community.
Edit: It may be better outside of the US, though. I don´t know how it is in other countries.
On April 04 2012 02:00 Waterflow wrote: The porn industry should stay the f*@# away from eSports. The eSport scene would get so much shit that it would actually be damaging.
Which is kinda sad isnt it. The porn industry is huge yet it's shunned upon, it must be huge for a reason? But people act like they've never watched anything porn related. Also everytime porn is brought up as a topic everyone just blindly agrees that it's gross etc. Seriously people should really grow up, let people work with whatver they want to, from what I can see porn isn't illegal in most countries that I know of atleast.
Good fucking lord, yeah right. What other sponsors do you think would want their logo next to brazzers? What kinda publicity would that give e-sports? This would be a tragedy, lol. But whatever, I know that all the higher ups feel the same way so its not like this is even worth worrying about.
On April 04 2012 02:00 Waterflow wrote: The porn industry should stay the f*@# away from eSports. The eSport scene would get so much shit that it would actually be damaging.
Which is kinda sad isnt it. The porn industry is huge yet it's shunned upon, it must be huge for a reason? But people act like they've never watched anything porn related. Also everytime porn is brought up as a topic everyone just blindly agrees that it's gross etc. Seriously people should really grow up, let people work with whatver they want to, from what I can see porn isn't illegal in most countries that I know of atleast.
people dont say its gross aside from uptite parents
the reason its shunned is so that kids arent watching it
On April 04 2012 02:00 Waterflow wrote: The porn industry should stay the f*@# away from eSports. The eSport scene would get so much shit that it would actually be damaging.
Which is kinda sad isnt it. The porn industry is huge yet it's shunned upon, it must be huge for a reason? But people act like they've never watched anything porn related. Also everytime porn is brought up as a topic everyone just blindly agrees that it's gross etc. Seriously people should really grow up, let people work with whatver they want to, from what I can see porn isn't illegal in most countries that I know of atleast.
people dont say its gross aside from uptite parents
the reason its shunned is so that kids arent watching it
Most people I know atleast try to hide the fact that they've watched it. But oh well okey then.
Jokes aside, terrible idea, there are many underage pro gamers and spectators at sc2 events, and this would be really bad for publicity. Don't get me wrong, I like me some porn, but its just not appropriate to have them sponsoring an activity that is not age restricted for the most part, and that actively needs more participation.
Imagine DJWheat trying to explain that to miniwheat? Or Day[9] rationalizing this to his increasingly mainstream clientele?
On April 04 2012 02:16 chestnutcc wrote: Jokes aside, terrible idea, there are many underage pro gamers and spectators at sc2 events, and this would be really bad for publicity. Don't get me wrong, I like me some porn, but its just not appropriate to have them sponsoring an activity that is not age restricted for the most part, and that actively needs more participation.
Imagine DJWheat trying to explain that to miniwheat? Or Day[9] rationalizing this to his increasingly mainstream clientele?
No it isn't appropiate to have them as sponsors due to the fact that Porn is shunned upon, that's all there is to it.
I don't care if Brazzers are related to the porn industry, having such a big sponsor for e-sports is always a good thing. Besides that Brazzers will advertise SC2 the best since... well you know :D, so stop acting butthurt and appreciate it!
I don't really care because I'm not involved in the FGC. I think it's more disturbing that everyone seems to try and tell the FGC what to do, how they should act and tirelessly try to get them to become an esport when they clearly don't give a shit about it.
Let bygones be bygones, stop trying to make the FGC something it isn't.
On April 04 2012 01:41 vOdToasT wrote: The fighting game scene is a huge disgusting joke, lol. Try being a woman in it, or even worse, a transsexual, and you will get treated like absolute trash.
Which makes it funny that they would ban any logos of Brazzers on their stream. Really, porn isn´t ok, but all the other shit that goes on in the fighting game community is...
Kayo Police and Ricky Ortiz get treated fine, don't let one asshat on cross assault ruin the impression for you :p
Ricky Ortiz is a homosexual. I wasn´t talking about homosexuals. My girlfriend was a Guilty Gear and Soul Calibur player for a while and won a bunch of tournaments, and was very much involved in the community. I´m not pulling stuff out of my ass
Well I highly doubt that any legitimate esports organisations who care about their brands want to be associated with Brazzers. So I don't think we will ever see them sponsoring ESPORTS on a larger scale. Which I think is good in the long run.
On April 04 2012 01:41 vOdToasT wrote: The fighting game scene is a huge disgusting joke, lol. Try being a woman in it, or even worse, a transsexual, and you will get treated like absolute trash.
Which makes it funny that they would ban any logos of Brazzers on their stream. Really, porn isn´t ok, but all the other shit that goes on in the fighting game community is...
Kayo Police and Ricky Ortiz get treated fine, don't let one asshat on cross assault ruin the impression for you :p
Ricky Ortiz is a homosexual. I wasn´t talking about homosexuals. My girlfriend was a Guilty Gear and Soul Calibur player for a while and won a bunch of tournaments, and was very much involved in the community. I´m not pulling stuff out of my ass
On April 04 2012 02:18 synd wrote: I don't care if Brazzers are related to the porn industry, having such a big sponsor for e-sports is always a good thing. Besides that Brazzers will advertise SC2 the best since... well you know :D, so stop acting butthurt and appreciate it!
gain one sponsor
lose ten sponsors and 100 000 viewers
ya i dont think brazzers has enough money to give enough to support all the moeny wed lose
On April 04 2012 01:41 vOdToasT wrote: The fighting game scene is a huge disgusting joke, lol. Try being a woman in it, or even worse, a transsexual, and you will get treated like absolute trash.
Which makes it funny that they would ban any logos of Brazzers on their stream. Really, porn isn´t ok, but all the other shit that goes on in the fighting game community is...
Kayo Police and Ricky Ortiz get treated fine, don't let one asshat on cross assault ruin the impression for you :p
Ricky Ortiz is a homosexual. I wasn´t talking about homosexuals. My girlfriend was a Guilty Gear and Soul Calibur player for a while and won a bunch of tournaments, and was very much involved in the community. I´m not pulling stuff out of my ass
Ricky actually isn't gay btw.
Yes, he is.
And Kayo Police is a mtf transsexual. She gets treated very well at every event she goes to.
This is a terrible idea, the game is not at a point yet where there are so many sponsors involved that it doesnt matter who else tags along, this is at the notion that "any money is good money" for the scene. This sponser will cost the scene a dozen more, it would be a stupid and greedy decision if any team actually accepts a sponsorship from Brazzers.....
On April 04 2012 02:16 chestnutcc wrote: Jokes aside, terrible idea, there are many underage pro gamers and spectators at sc2 events, and this would be really bad for publicity. Don't get me wrong, I like me some porn, but its just not appropriate to have them sponsoring an activity that is not age restricted for the most part, and that actively needs more participation.
Imagine DJWheat trying to explain that to miniwheat? Or Day[9] rationalizing this to his increasingly mainstream clientele?
No it isn't appropiate to have them as sponsors due to the fact that Porn is shunned upon, that's all there is to it.
Well, that is culture dependent. Gambling sites may not be well received too, but a sensible reason to shy away from pornography is to keep children away from it, which I think most cultures would agree upon, without discussing pornography at all.
On April 04 2012 02:16 chestnutcc wrote: Jokes aside, terrible idea, there are many underage pro gamers and spectators at sc2 events, and this would be really bad for publicity. Don't get me wrong, I like me some porn, but its just not appropriate to have them sponsoring an activity that is not age restricted for the most part, and that actively needs more participation.
Imagine DJWheat trying to explain that to miniwheat? Or Day[9] rationalizing this to his increasingly mainstream clientele?
"they are a large entertainment company", you make it sound like watching zealots cut marines in half is fine but having the name of a large website that offers perfectly legal products is the largest taboo.
If sponsors are fine with it, who else gives a fuck. Porn is a massive industry and esports is miniscule in comparison, I'd say esports declining the next new few years is 1000000000% more likely than porn declining so why not take two incredibly interconnected groups, young adults and the porn industry and see what happens.
SC2 community is beyond brudish.
I didn't see anyone whining when poker strategy offered sponsorship to teams, thats endorsing far more illegal activity than a porn site would in the US.
On April 04 2012 02:00 Waterflow wrote: The porn industry should stay the f*@# away from eSports. The eSport scene would get so much shit that it would actually be damaging.
Which is kinda sad isnt it. The porn industry is huge yet it's shunned upon, it must be huge for a reason? But people act like they've never watched anything porn related. Also everytime porn is brought up as a topic everyone just blindly agrees that it's gross etc. Seriously people should really grow up, let people work with whatver they want to, from what I can see porn isn't illegal in most countries that I know of atleast.
people dont say its gross aside from uptite parents
the reason its shunned is so that kids arent watching it
Most people I know atleast try to hide the fact that they've watched it. But oh well okey then.
So porn sponsors are bad but companies producing the unhealthiest drinks on the planet are fine?
If brazzers wanted to sponsor an SC2 team or players, I would have no issue with it at all. All you'll see is a player with a shirt with a brazzers logo on it.
If the beer company Hite sponsored the Korean proteam Sparkyz when lots of the players and audience weren't legal to drink, then why wouldn't Brazzers sponsor gaming?
On April 04 2012 02:28 Derez wrote: So porn sponsors are bad but companies producing the unhealthiest drinks on the planet are fine?
If brazzers wanted to sponsor an SC2 team or players, I would have no issue with it at all. All you'll see is a player with a shirt with a brazzers logo on it.
To be fair, Brazzers has its own brand of unhealthy drink.
On April 04 2012 02:16 chestnutcc wrote: Jokes aside, terrible idea, there are many underage pro gamers and spectators at sc2 events, and this would be really bad for publicity. Don't get me wrong, I like me some porn, but its just not appropriate to have them sponsoring an activity that is not age restricted for the most part, and that actively needs more participation.
Imagine DJWheat trying to explain that to miniwheat? Or Day[9] rationalizing this to his increasingly mainstream clientele?
You think little kids are going around asking mommy and daddy what the sponsors sell or their message? It's as simple as saying it's a company that sells adult products and that's it. You don't have to go into specifics of "videos of women getting gangbanged by guys with monster penises in HD". God forbid Trojan or Durex might want to sponsor a mainly male community and you'd have to explain to your child that it's a product to prevent pregnancies and STD's when you start having sex.
At the end of the day it's all about the demographic that MLG and other tournaments want to draw. Are the <16 crowd large enough to start telling "adult" sponsors, no thanks? That's a question they will soon have to ask themselves if this Brazzers thing moves forward. Either way it'll be interesting to see if Brazzers tries to do anything themselves as far as tournaments go. I do believe it'll be insanely popular.
On April 04 2012 02:28 Derez wrote: So porn sponsors are bad but companies producing the unhealthiest drinks on the planet are fine?
If brazzers wanted to sponsor an SC2 team or players, I would have no issue with it at all. All you'll see is a player with a shirt with a brazzers logo on it.
To be fair, Brazzers has its own brand of unhealthy drink.
On April 04 2012 02:28 Derez wrote: So porn sponsors are bad but companies producing the unhealthiest drinks on the planet are fine?
If brazzers wanted to sponsor an SC2 team or players, I would have no issue with it at all. All you'll see is a player with a shirt with a brazzers logo on it.
Exactly. It's not like kids are going to stumble upon it by accident. It will either be blocked by parental controls or if it's not they already have free reign over all the other porn on the internet.
Lets be honest, kids look at porn already. Just like they swear when not around their parents and watch the matrix at their friends house.
On April 04 2012 01:41 vOdToasT wrote: The fighting game scene is a huge disgusting joke, lol. Try being a woman in it, or even worse, a transsexual, and you will get treated like absolute trash.
Which makes it funny that they would ban any logos of Brazzers on their stream. Really, porn isn´t ok, but all the other shit that goes on in the fighting game community is...
Kayo Police and Ricky Ortiz get treated fine, don't let one asshat on cross assault ruin the impression for you :p
Ricky Ortiz is a homosexual. I wasn´t talking about homosexuals. My girlfriend was a Guilty Gear and Soul Calibur player for a while and won a bunch of tournaments, and was very much involved in the community. I´m not pulling stuff out of my ass
Ricky actually isn't gay btw.
Yes, he is.
And Kayo Police is a mtf transsexual. She gets treated very well at every event she goes to.
And what about the ones who don´t get treated well? She´s just one person. (Besides, I wasn´t necessarily talking about organizers, more the community - the players she plays against and the audience she plays for) I would be open minded to the possibility of things having changed since, but then the streaming incident happened where a female player was shit on so much that she didn´t even want to continue playing in the event, so it seems like it´s still business as usual. If there were female SC2 players who were actually good and playing in tournaments, would that EVER happen AT ALL?
On April 04 2012 01:41 vOdToasT wrote: The fighting game scene is a huge disgusting joke, lol. Try being a woman in it, or even worse, a transsexual, and you will get treated like absolute trash.
Which makes it funny that they would ban any logos of Brazzers on their stream. Really, porn isn´t ok, but all the other shit that goes on in the fighting game community is...
Yeah... like Kayo, Ricky Ortiz, Karaface, etc. right ?
People like you that operate off of second hand information and play the equivalent of telephone with bits and pieces of this or that story should get off of the internet.
You're doing the equivalent of projecting the actions of isolated incidents onto an entire community. Is esports made up of nothing but racists that hurl slurs at each other in every game ? Does the esports community all photoshop and harass female players that get signed to prestigious teams ? Does the esports community not support female only tournaments ?
If you live in a glass house you shouldn't be hurling boulders.
Right now Hotbid is trolling a more mainstream event that is incredibly sexist, but for some reason accepted by the masses. The longer blatant double standards continue on the longer any community that tries to put another on blast for things they are guilty of will be a joke.
So, if Brazzers were to provide all of the required sponsorship for and host an invitational (something not foreign to the scene) tournament for players over 18, would this be an acceptable compromise? How many teams would be unwilling to allow their players to participate would only be known if Brazzers were to try it out. With a large enough prize pool I'm sure they'd be able to coax enough people to participate.
On April 04 2012 02:16 chestnutcc wrote: Jokes aside, terrible idea, there are many underage pro gamers and spectators at sc2 events, and this would be really bad for publicity. Don't get me wrong, I like me some porn, but its just not appropriate to have them sponsoring an activity that is not age restricted for the most part, and that actively needs more participation.
Imagine DJWheat trying to explain that to miniwheat? Or Day[9] rationalizing this to his increasingly mainstream clientele?
You think little kids are going around asking mommy and daddy what the sponsors sell or their message? It's as simple as saying it's a company that sells adult products and that's it. You don't have to go into specifics of "videos of women getting gangbanged by guys with monster penises in HD". God forbid Trojan or Durex might want to sponsor a mainly male community and you'd have to explain to your child that it's a product to prevent pregnancies and STD's when you start having sex.
At the end of the day it's all about the demographic that MLG and other tournaments want to draw. Are the <16 crowd large enough to start telling "adult" sponsors, no thanks? That's a question they will soon have to ask themselves if this Brazzers thing moves forward. Either way it'll be interesting to see if Brazzers tries to do anything themselves as far as tournaments go. I do believe it'll be insanely popular.
Their parents will just never send them in the first place. There are many stigmas associated with the porn industry and since none of us know much about it, lets not discuss it. A condom company is not the same thing at all, most children are probably familiar with the concept through school anyway. Porn comes with a culture that no body wants to willingly introduce their children to. The sociological reasons behind this are irrelevant, its just bad business for gaming to accept them as sponsors.
On April 04 2012 02:28 Derez wrote: So porn sponsors are bad but companies producing the unhealthiest drinks on the planet are fine?
If brazzers wanted to sponsor an SC2 team or players, I would have no issue with it at all. All you'll see is a player with a shirt with a brazzers logo on it.
To be fair, Brazzers has its own brand of unhealthy drink.
A good protein shake never killed anyone.
Research shows high amounts of steroids, narcotics and other pharmeceutical content.
On April 04 2012 01:41 vOdToasT wrote: The fighting game scene is a huge disgusting joke, lol. Try being a woman in it, or even worse, a transsexual, and you will get treated like absolute trash.
Which makes it funny that they would ban any logos of Brazzers on their stream. Really, porn isn´t ok, but all the other shit that goes on in the fighting game community is...
Yeah... like Kayo, Ricky Ortiz, Karaface, etc. right ?
People like you that operate off of second hand information and play the equivalent of telephone with bits and pieces of this or that story should get off of the internet.
You're doing the equivalent of projecting the actions of isolated incidents onto an entire community. Is esports made up of nothing but racists that hurl slurs at each other in every game ? Does the esports community all photoshop and harass female players that get signed to prestigious teams ? Does the esports community not support female only tournaments ?
If you live in a glass house you shouldn't be hurling boulders.
By second hand information, do you mean someone who was directly involved telling me about it, or someone telling someone else who tells me? Because it is the former. She played fighting games basically for a living for a few years, and witnessed tournaments getting rigged (having someone in the audience throw a shoe at one of the players, for example), fangirls getting drugged up and "used" in hotel rooms, and was treated like crap herself, by many. There was even a response by some community members to the "streaming incident" that said sexual harassment is part of the fighting game community.
Of course not everyone who is part of it is an asshole, but on average the community is much worse.
I used to wonder why she quit playing, since she likes the games, was good, and made money. Now I understand why.
On April 04 2012 02:00 Waterflow wrote: The porn industry should stay the f*@# away from eSports. The eSport scene would get so much shit that it would actually be damaging.
Which is kinda sad isnt it. The porn industry is huge yet it's shunned upon, it must be huge for a reason? But people act like they've never watched anything porn related. Also everytime porn is brought up as a topic everyone just blindly agrees that it's gross etc. Seriously people should really grow up, let people work with whatver they want to, from what I can see porn isn't illegal in most countries that I know of atleast.
people dont say its gross aside from uptite parents
the reason its shunned is so that kids arent watching it
Most people I know atleast try to hide the fact that they've watched it. But oh well okey then.
Define age of these kids?
Maybe things are different in Sweden but I find that here everyone openly admits to watching porn and a lot of people talk about masturbation O.o
Even when kids are like 13 we ask stupid questions to each other "Where do you do it" LOL sounds kind of disturbing
On April 04 2012 02:40 Forikorder wrote: imagine this, if Brazzers sponsored MLG Leenock wouldnt be allowed to go
I don't see how sponsorship deals affect who can attend events. He wouldn't be legally allowed if they were showing porn, but that wouldn't be the case. Just like how there's plenty of brewers sponsoring (sporting) events attended by people that aren't allowed to drink.
LI Joe is endorser not the event itself. So if he wants to wear a Brazzer's shirt, have a porn star carry his bags, and rock a BRZ tag in front of his name: that's as far as it goes. There really isn't anything past that just like all the other sponsored players.
People will complain, be upset, and at the end of the day have 2gigs of Brazzers on their hard drives anyway.
On April 04 2012 02:40 Forikorder wrote: imagine this, if Brazzers sponsored MLG Leenock wouldnt be allowed to go
I don't see how sponsorship deals affect who can attend events. He wouldn't be legally allowed if they were showing porn, but that wouldn't be the case. Just like how there's plenty of brewers sponsoring (sporting) events attended by people that aren't allowed to drink.
Pretty sure sponshorship by Brazzers doesn't equal doing a porn movie with them?
I really don't see the big deal. It's a smart sponsorship. The FGC is almost entirely male. All males watch porn... There is undoubtedly money to be made.
And all those people saying big sponsors won't associate themselves with porn.. You guys realize the FGC has no "big sponsors" and Capcom is an abysmal company so there was never any hope for big sponsors. I think this is actually kind of cool.
People getting so bent out of shape from a simple sponsorship, when almost ALL of us watch porn regularly. And you really think a Brazzers logo will affect kids? If a kid knows how to use a computer he's seen more boobs than Ron Jeremy. People just need to grow up.
On April 04 2012 02:40 Forikorder wrote: imagine this, if Brazzers sponsored MLG Leenock wouldnt be allowed to go
He would. The big issue would be if Little Jimmy's mum sees that a porn website is sponsoring at MLG and she stops paying for his subscription.
Its not an issue of whether its legal, or that almost everyone knows what porn and brazzers are, its that there are a lot of people particularly in America, a huge market for ESports related companies, that consider porn a taboo subject, hell a film can be brutally violent and get a lower rating than a film that shows too much sideboob in a scene.
It would be a bit like if the marijuana industry decided to sponsor a player, too many people consider it to be taboo and you don't want to alienate them, especially when a lot of them are potential paying parents.
The reason this is not going to help grow the scene is because if you take 'brazzers' as a sponsor you can say goodbye to anyone else who would want to sponsor your team, organize an event, or promote anything. Nobody wants their logo next to a porn site, and nobody wants to stream an event sponsored by a pornagraphic website. It leaves nothing to gain for anyone else and much to lose. Sorry but this is not the place for porn, these are video games, and they are trying to appeal to a larger audience than the adult perverts.
I think people should just grow up. You go onto 9gag and shit like that and theres the brazzers mem where you just put the logo on a picture and it automatically becomes a different meaning.
I really wouldn't care if it was a sponsorship. I mean imagine IdrA's sponsorship thing at the end of every program he's on...would be hilarious!
However if I had kids I still wouldnt mind. They can see the brazzers symbol and they won't have a clue what it is anyway
I somehow feel this wouldn't be as big of an issue with European events. Judging by posts, I'd have to say most Europeans understand that this isn't something that will corrupt young viewers, but does provide much needed sponsorship for eSports which, despite delusions, will not take off in the mainstream. The mainstream doesn't give a shit about professional Starcraft. Not every country is Korea, and from what I've gathered, the Korean SC2 scene hasn't really taken off. If anything, it's dying.
On April 04 2012 02:40 Forikorder wrote: imagine this, if Brazzers sponsored MLG Leenock wouldnt be allowed to go
He would. The big issue would be if Little Jimmy's mum sees that a porn website is sponsoring at MLG and she stops paying for his subscription.
Its not an issue of whether its legal, or that almost everyone knows what porn and brazzers are, its that there are a lot of people particularly in America, a huge market for ESports related companies, that consider porn a taboo subject, hell a film can be brutally violent and get a lower rating than a film that shows too much sideboob in a scene.
It would be a bit like if the marijuana industry decided to sponsor a player, too many people consider it to be taboo and you don't want to alienate them, especially when a lot of them are potential paying parents.
MLG would never be stupid enough to have anything pornagraphic related to their events whatsoever. Like i said , there is so little gain there, at the risk of losing EVERYTHING else, sponsors, the venues' themselves, the organizers, the entire group of people who are actually investing into MLG by buying up large pieces of it (10-11 million dollars) , you really think they want pornagraphy to be any part of what they are trying to do?
And this is how, you prevent things from making it into the mainstream, because it scares away the average consumer, and instead pokes fun at what legitimate organizers are trying to build.
Hate to say it, but this shit, and supporters of it, are literally killing eSports. You think, any legitimate sponsor wants to be competition for this? You think Coca-Cola will want to sponsor a team or event, when there's PORN affiliated stuff plastered all over it? Then comes the "wait, so Coca-Cola supports Brazzers?" or "Brazzer's PWNED Pepsi! at that tournament!". Fuck no. You allow this in, then you lose all other possibilities of sponsors, because they cannot, let themselves become associated with it AT ALL. This is PR suicide, for any team who wants to be taken seriously, but hey, the FGC doesn't give a shit anyways, so let them take the money and run.
It's no surprise, despite it's long history of good games, the FGC has failed to make it 'big' in the world of competitive broadcasting.... wonder why.
On April 04 2012 02:16 chestnutcc wrote: Jokes aside, terrible idea, there are many underage pro gamers and spectators at sc2 events, and this would be really bad for publicity. Don't get me wrong, I like me some porn, but its just not appropriate to have them sponsoring an activity that is not age restricted for the most part, and that actively needs more participation.
Imagine DJWheat trying to explain that to miniwheat? Or Day[9] rationalizing this to his increasingly mainstream clientele?
No it isn't appropiate to have them as sponsors due to the fact that Porn is shunned upon, that's all there is to it.
Well, that's exactly why this would be a bad idea. It's a bad idea entirely because of the repercussions in outsiders' view on competitive Starcraft, not because of the sponsorship itself. And outsiders include potential sponsors with higher value than Brazzers.
It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, it matters if it's good or bad.
as long as it didn't actually show pornographic images during commercials or whatever who gives a fuck? GoDaddy sells sex, almost every magazine sells it, hell the world wrestling federation sells it (yes, I used the full WWF name cause I don't know what the E is for rofl), why not the actual adult entertainment industry?
Do I personally like the idea, no, who pays for porn anyway. But, $$ is $$ and where it comes from I frankly don't give a rats butt.
There are plenty of ways to advertise a porn site WITHOUT actually revealing any pornography and if Brazzers can bring to the table a way to keep ads watchable for all ages, then go for it. I'm sorry, but there are more vulgar cartoons on cartoon network these days that people should really be protesting.
side note : If this was UFC, you would be all for this, just sayin'.
I hope not this will be something we get to see in the Starcraft 2 scene, imagine Brazzers listed with all big sponsors like Intel, Coca-Cola, AMD etc. I don't think anyone of them want to be associated with anything like porn, would probably be a nightmare. Other than that I really don't care whenever they should sponsor or so, but if that happens I don't think it will go well for e-Sports.
On April 04 2012 02:52 Kazeyonoma wrote: And this is how, you prevent things from making it into the mainstream, because it scares away the average consumer, and instead pokes fun at what legitimate organizers are trying to build.
Hate to say it, but this shit, and supporters of it, are literally killing eSports. You think, any legitimate sponsor wants to be competition for this? You think Coca-Cola will want to sponsor a team or event, when there's PORN affiliated stuff plastered all over it? Then comes the "wait, so Coca-Cola supports Brazzers?" or "Brazzer's PWNED Pepsi! at that tournament!". Fuck no. You allow this in, then you lose all other possibilities of sponsors, because they cannot, let themselves become associated with it AT ALL. This is PR suicide, for any team who wants to be taken seriously, but hey, the FGC doesn't give a shit anyways, so let them take the money and run.
It's no surprise, despite it's long history of good games, the FGC has failed to make it 'big' in the world of competitive broadcasting.... wonder why.
Probably because the FG genre is oversaturated with solid titles. The RTS genre isn't exactly brimming with popular spectator quality games. The assumption that I see being perpetuated is that SC2 eSports will become some kind of spectator sport 'Goliath', given time, and the reality I observe is that most people don't want to watch people playing some computer game they don't play themselves. I can't even catch a Bo3 while people are around me without them bitching and complaining about how it's shit. I disagree, and think watching competitive SC2 is awesome, but let's just pretend the scene has hit its peak. If you want more mass appeal, get sponsors people actually find interesting into the mix and suddenly, this scene could have new life blown into it, or would demise ahead of schedule and break the delusions.
There is a difference between using 'sexy' images to promote something, and outright being sponsored by a porn site. You're kidding yourself if you think the UFC or any other organization as large as them would commit PR nightmare of taking on a pornagraphic sponsorship. There would be so much backlash and controversy not only from media and some of the fans and organizers but they would LOSE more of the other sponsors who want nothing to do with a porn site. It's common fucking sense actually and it is amazing how many people don't understand that simple concept.
I run a small streaming porn site and I wanted to host some $100 prizepool tournaments to get the name around and even sponsor a small little team and such.
Considering all the negativity on seen on reddit on this subject (Brazzers sponsorship, haven't gotten to reading the whole thread here) I may decide to not go ahead with my little SC2 tournaments/sponsoring, etc.
I can confirm through people who were directly involved in the FGC that gays, women, and minorities were publicly executed on the main stages of RIGGED tournaments. THIS IS REAL, FOLKS. I haven't actually watched a tournament or followed any of the community, but I know a guy on the internet that said they THROW SHOES. It doesn't surprise me they'd do something as barbaric as this. The terrorists have won. E-deportes are dead as we know it. How will anyone take professional VIDYA GAMES seriously if a deplorable business of pornography puts its name on a players t-shirt. We should just stick with our respectable sponsors of Xtreme energy drinks and "GAMER SNAXX" like Doritos, Hot Pockets, and Slim Jims.
On April 04 2012 03:07 Jerglings wrote: I can confirm through people who directly were also directly involved in the FGC that gays, women, and minorities were publicly executed on the main stages of RIGGED tournaments. THIS IS REAL, FOLKS. I haven't actually watched a tournament or followed any of the community, but I know a guy on the internet that said they THROW SHOES. It doesn't surprise me they'd do something as barbaric as this. The terrorists have won. E-deportes are dead as we know it. How will anyone take professional VIDYA GAMES seriously if a deplorable business of pornography puts its name on a players t-shirt. We should just stick with our respectable sponsors of Xtreme energy drinks and "GAMER SNAXX" like Doritos, Hot Pockets, and Slim Jims.
A minute of silence to the hilarity that is this one post. And I hope everyone realizes the whole sarcasm thing in it; For some it's hard to see it through written words.
We've already got hot pockets, doritos and dr pepper. With brazzers, the only thing missing from the nerd trifecta will be a futon supply company sponsorship.
I was referring to the people who think this is a good idea. You can't expect a player to turn away any sponsors no matter who they are, especially FG players who have no money to begin with. 'Herrr derrr', really classy there champ.
On April 04 2012 03:16 Leth0 wrote: I was referring to the people who think this is a good idea. You can't expect a player to turn away any sponsors no matter who they are, especially FG players who have no money to begin with. 'Herrr derrr', really classy there champ.
Herrrr Derr, just like when you bashed everyone who has made any positive comment about this topic with your "Macho attitude" of " go outside and find a woman." It's not like Brazzers is going to take over those intermissions between games at MLG and have hardcore porn playing. Also my opinion on the matter, if it works go for it. But I feel the biggest issue is how other sponsors would respond to it.
If by "macho comment" you mean common sense as to why this is a bad idea for anyone who wants to be taken seriously than yea. MLG will NOT have any players at their tournament with a sponsorship like that. The other sponsors would respond by simply saying "hey, if you do this, you WILL lose us". That should be obvious to everyone.
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
Reminds me of the EU troll team "Red Eyed Jedis" that played TF2 6v6, who sent a not-so-serious email to fleshlights official website asking for sponsorship. Which they got.
So the people who don't think having porn associated with video game tournaments is a good idea are irrational thinkers? Buddy I don't think you need to fly anywhere, you already live on some other planet.
Has anyone here against this been to a Video Game Convention? "Booth babes" might as well be naked. They're paid to be there, smiling while being gawked at and touched by basement-dwellers and socially inept people, many of which reek of puberty or excessive Axe body spray.
At least porn stars are enjoying what they're doing.
Sex is involved with video games, even more now than ever. SO many games have implied sex scenes, some incredibly obvious. The God of War series seems to make a point to have on in every release.
There is a time and place for everything. Video game competitions are not the place for adult entertainment. Comparing a Booth babe who stands there and looks pretty to a woman who gets paid to have men blow loads on their face is......idk man, some of you are grasping so hard to try and justify why something like this would ever be suitable that it's just baffling.
On April 04 2012 03:02 eYeball wrote: I hope not this will be something we get to see in the Starcraft 2 scene, imagine Brazzers listed with all big sponsors like Intel, Coca-Cola, AMD etc. I don't think anyone of them want to be associated with anything like porn, would probably be a nightmare. Other than that I really don't care whenever they should sponsor or so, but if that happens I don't think it will go well for e-Sports.
Why would other sponsors care? People should just grow up and accept porn as a completely normal thing.
On April 04 2012 03:39 Noocta wrote: I don't really see a problem with it. People need to stop being so shy about that. Sex is a market, like everything else.
But then, I'm not sure this isn't a late paril fool joke, because it's pretty weird nonetheless. x)
No, it's legit. Being a follower of the FGC. LI Joe has been pushing the Brazzers thing on twitter while he was in LA and finally managed to get in contact with some higher ups in the organization for sponsorship. Actually now that I think about it, he has been pushing on the Brazzers thing for a month or so now.
On April 04 2012 03:39 Noocta wrote: I don't really see a problem with it. People need to stop being so shy about that. Sex is a market, like everything else.
But then, I'm not sure this isn't a late paril fool joke, because it's pretty weird nonetheless. x)
No, it's legit. Being a follower of the FGC. LI Joe has been pushing the Brazzers thing on twitter while he was in LA and finally managed to get in contact with some higher ups in the organization for sponsorship. Actually now that I think about it, he has been pushing on the Brazzers thing for a month or so now.
Well then, why not ? The porn industry get frowned at by everyone, yet they probably have the most money of anyone.
On April 04 2012 01:52 Trumpet wrote: It's relevant that they're just planning to sponsor a player and possibly their own event at this point, not necessarily trying to advertise through other events.
So when did everyone become Kotaku-level sensationalists enough to decide that one player amongst thousands getting a pr0n company sponsorship is going to ruin the FGC?
Those of you who only talk and contribute nothing to the community -- it was only days ago that you people were still coming up with photoshopped Brazzers pictures of players for shits and giggles. Now that a fairly well-known player has nabbed a real sponsorship, you people 1) turn around and claim that such a sponsorship is detrimental to the community, while this is just one player's decision for a personal affiliation and most event organizers have made their stances clear in terms of associating with such sponsor (read: they won't); 2) blow up the matter out of proportion by spreading false rumors on Twitter such as pr0n star xxx and yyy will be at future events, future tournaments will feature pr0n website promotions, etc. 3) become judgmental towards pr0n -- I didn't realize we were working with a bunch of 15-year-old smartasses here. But then again, I am fairly mature for my age if I must say so myself and I can't expect the same from every other men in their mid-20s.
Since when did the FGC become all about just talking "current events"? I reiterate this point over and over to others, too, that those who only show up on stream chats, Youtube/EventHubs/SRK comments, etc. are NOT PART OF THE COMMUNITY. The community is those who come out to play the gdamned games, and those who help the players get exposure. The community is not and should not be swayed by spectators on their computer chairs who hasn't put in a single quarter into an arcade cabinet, or picked up a TE stick to try and beat "that guy at the arcade".
A sponsor is a sponsor. It sends its player to community events without money from the player's pocket. As mentioned before, most event organizers have already firmly stated that they will not feature the sponsor tag in front of LI Joe's name, nor associate with the sponsor in any way, shape or form. Brazzers wants to run fighting game events? Most other sponsors have already stated that their players will not be sent to a Brazzers-run event. There may be community presence from Brazzers people? So what? We got fuckers like DJ Vest running around two-timing people and ruining tournaments. Anyone from Brazzers is comparably an angel and a saint.
This is not good for the community's image, huh, spectators? Who are the ones that blew up the Cross Assault incident into making it look like the entire community was sexist? Definitely not the community itself.
Wanna prove that you're not all talk and what you say holds weight? Why don't you come to one of these plentiful FGC events and get bodied? But that armchair looks mighty comfortable... I'm not listening. I'm going back to playing the damn games that got me here.
I don't get what the big deal is. All there is going to be is 1 or 2 on stream brazzers logos, maybe some commercial (that won't have nudity most likely), some players having brazzers sewed on badges, as well as getting some porn stars to be booth babes (if some aren't already doing this). Come on, people say that there isn't enough money in the scene, and for the FGC that is completely true, but when all the sudden people want to throw money at them they decline because to some people it's unnaceptable, etc.? Come on.
On April 04 2012 03:53 Shadow_Dog wrote: I don't get what the big deal is. All there is going to be is 1 or 2 on stream brazzers logos, maybe some commercial (that won't have nudity most likely), some players having brazzers sewed on badges, as well as getting some porn stars to be booth babes (if some aren't already doing this). Come on, people say that there isn't enough money in the scene, and for the FGC that is completely true, but when all the sudden people want to throw money at them they decline because to some people it's unnaceptable, etc.? Come on.
What do you think the major sponsors will do if what you said become true?
On April 04 2012 02:16 chestnutcc wrote: Jokes aside, terrible idea, there are many underage pro gamers and spectators at sc2 events, and this would be really bad for publicity. Don't get me wrong, I like me some porn, but its just not appropriate to have them sponsoring an activity that is not age restricted for the most part, and that actively needs more participation.
Imagine DJWheat trying to explain that to miniwheat? Or Day[9] rationalizing this to his increasingly mainstream clientele?
You think capcom wants a porn industry throwing a tournament for their game? It's not going to happen. People value their own opinions to much, just because YOU have no taste and think this is a good place for it doesn't mean the people with the money or the initiative to actually make things happen do.
On April 04 2012 03:32 discomatt wrote: Has anyone here against this been to a Video Game Convention? "Booth babes" might as well be naked. They're paid to be there, smiling while being gawked at and touched by basement-dwellers and socially inept people, many of which reek of puberty or excessive Axe body spray.
At least porn stars are enjoying what they're doing.
Sex is involved with video games, even more now than ever. SO many games have implied sex scenes, some incredibly obvious. The God of War series seems to make a point to have on in every release.
well being sexy and having little amount of clothing on is bit differend than having 2 cocks in ur ass.
The Starcraft 2 community has higher standards than the FGC, that's a given. And with higher standards things like Brazzers sponsoring anything Starcraft related (at the very least alongside major sponsors) is just out of the question..
On April 04 2012 03:32 discomatt wrote: Has anyone here against this been to a Video Game Convention? "Booth babes" might as well be naked. They're paid to be there, smiling while being gawked at and touched by basement-dwellers and socially inept people, many of which reek of puberty or excessive Axe body spray.
At least porn stars are enjoying what they're doing.
Sex is involved with video games, even more now than ever. SO many games have implied sex scenes, some incredibly obvious. The God of War series seems to make a point to have on in every release.
well imo being sexy and having little amount of clothing on is bit differend than having 2 cocks in ur ass.
That might have been a bad sentence to put an "imo" in.
I don't have any problem with porn trying to more mainstream. We're trying to do it too.
tons of people watch porn, even your mom probably does. we've come a long way since the 60s I don't think brazzers would hurt anything really, maybe make a few people butt hurt but that's about it. The only hurtful thing I can think of are other sponsors interests, for instance Razer might not want to sponsor EG if EG gets brazzers as their sponsor. But that will happen anyways with other sponsors, Razer might not want Logitech sponsoring EG for obvious reasons. So if teams are approached by any sponsor, they need to ok it with the other ones, I assume this is how it's done normally.
I mean are we going to start getting picky who supports our games? What if your parents don't like the fact that MLG sponsors energy drinks because they are banned in your house? Is that really going to stop you from watching it? I doubt viewer numbers will decrease by much if a company like brazzers hosts a tournament or sponsors one.
I'd love it if beer companies sponsored SC2 tournaments and maybe that's bad for our game? both are legal.
On April 04 2012 03:56 Leth0 wrote: You think capcom wants a porn industry throwing a tournament for their game? It's not going to happen. People value their own opinions to much, just because YOU have no taste and think this is a good place for it doesn't mean the people with the money or the initiative to actually make things happen do.
Capcom does not care about the FGC esports-wise. They refuse to even talk with MLG and MVC3 has been unplayable online for a year and they've done nothing to fix it.
If we can be sponsored by alcohol companies, why are porn companies different. People are too uptight and need to get off their high horses. THIS NONSENSE that most of you are posting against this, disgusts me as much as the teacher who was fired for performing in her past, its called predjudice. A lot of you need to grow up i think.
How simple minded do you have to be to think that "Well, people do watch porn, and masturbate, I don't see the problem with bringing this to our venue"
Like I said before, there is a time and place for everything, and video game competitions are not the place to promote pornography. It would be like going to bath and body works for a pizza, it doesn't make any sense.
If you are going to tell people to grow up you should probably know how to spell "prejudice' correctly. Using it correctly would also be a plus, it's not prejudice to not want to be associated with a porn site, when you are trying to throw a tournament for video games.....You should actually grow up yourself.
On April 04 2012 01:41 vOdToasT wrote: The fighting game scene is a huge disgusting joke, lol. Try being a woman in it, or even worse, a transsexual, and you will get treated like absolute trash.
How is this any different from people treating kellymilkies like shit for casting the gsl? or the objectifying of anny prosser or rachael when they do interviews on the big stage? Even things like the reception of Slayers eve and the discussion about female only online tournaments.
There are several competitive fighting game players that are openly gay, and doesn't get shit about it.
As a somewhat competitive fighting game player and follower of starcraft, they each have their own issues, but they are both equally bad. As for the sponsorship itself, how is this any different from companies like intel/razer having booth babes walking with the player out to the big stage at iem? Also the fact that at pretty much all big tech conventions, E3, pax etc. most companies have booth babes to attract people to their stuff, sex sells, it's as simple as that.
Karaface is a transendered photographer in the FGC and she's doing fine. Ricky Ortiz is gay and is one of the most respected players in the scene because he's good. The SC 2 community is coming from such a high horse they may kill esports if they ever fell off. Brazzers isn't a big deal regardless because tourneys can just not show the logos or any hints of brazzers on their stream or venue.
People who think this is great need to think a little harder. There is no quicker way to get every mainstream self respecting company to run in the opposite direction of you as endorsing a porn site. "but lijoe isn't endorsing it he is just wearing a shirt with their logo so he can get a plane ticket from them" Sorry, sponsorship is a two way street. The sponsor gives you money in turn for your endorsement. Endorsing a porn site is the fast lane to main stream media destroying you. Gaming already has plenty of negative stigmas associated with it, now the FGC think that adding all the negative stigma's associated with porn on top of that is a good idea? lol. Talk about self destruction.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
In theory it would be cool. But considering all the companies that wouldn't want to be associated with someone being sponsered by a porn company would potentially be a bad thing. Lets say a whole team goes to MLG or IPL with the brazzers logo or the name on the shirts they wear. Now what do you think the tournament sponsers are going to say about the whole thing. They will probably come out with a statement or fear what people will think of them sponsering a tournament for people who are sponsered by such things. I think if Brazzers was to make some kind of esports company and not be directly affiliated with the actual porn company, things would be a little different. But overall I feel it wouldn't be as good as some people might think.
If all of SC2 viewers were above 18 I wouldn't mind this whatsoever. Even though pretending most teens nowadays don't watch porn is ludicrous there are still some morals that need to be respected.
On April 04 2012 02:16 chestnutcc wrote: Jokes aside, terrible idea, there are many underage pro gamers and spectators at sc2 events, and this would be really bad for publicity. Don't get me wrong, I like me some porn, but its just not appropriate to have them sponsoring an activity that is not age restricted for the most part, and that actively needs more participation.
Imagine DJWheat trying to explain that to miniwheat? Or Day[9] rationalizing this to his increasingly mainstream clientele?
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
as pointed out previously several times is that the problem lies in major companies not wanting their logo displayed next to that of a porn company. also regardless of how you feel on the issue, parents are probably not going to react too well if they see or hear that Brazzers or any other other similar company is sponsoring a player/team in SC2 or any sport for that matter.
On April 04 2012 05:02 Mohdoo wrote: Wait, so the fighting game community isn't actually doing this, right? I read the OP but I got kinda confused <_<
There is no official contract yet, but he spoke with someone high up in brazzers marketing department and he said that they want to sponsor him aswell as possibly form a team and throw their own tournaments.
IMO nothing wrong with brazzers, they offer a great product, solid, professional. Their site is great, all the content arranged by tags, performers and a massive selection to choose from. Nothing wrong with associating companies like that. And yes it IS good for esports to promote safe sex and anti-contraception etc.
On April 04 2012 05:02 Mohdoo wrote: Wait, so the fighting game community isn't actually doing this, right? I read the OP but I got kinda confused <_<
There is no official contract yet, but he spoke with someone high up in brazzers marketing department and he said that they want to sponsor him aswell as possibly form a team and throw their own tournaments.
Hilarious. The FGC had such opportunities to legitimize themselves, but their "pillars" continue to drop the ball over and over again. Shame, really.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
On April 04 2012 05:07 isleyofthenorth wrote: Really how is this more frowned upon than ads for liquor...(not that there were any in esports)
The korean brood war team CJ Entus was sponsored by a korean bear company called Hite, and they even renamed their team to Hite Entus, atleast for a while.
On April 04 2012 05:02 Mohdoo wrote: Wait, so the fighting game community isn't actually doing this, right? I read the OP but I got kinda confused <_<
There is no official contract yet, but he spoke with someone high up in brazzers marketing department and he said that they want to sponsor him aswell as possibly form a team and throw their own tournaments.
Hilarious. The FGC had such opportunities to legitimize themselves, but their "pillars" continue to drop the ball over and over again. Shame, really.
you know nothing about them. the majority don't want to "legitmize" themselves. they like being more underground, running everything themselves, and having more of a sense of community.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
On April 04 2012 01:18 emc wrote: not a big deal if the game is rated M because you have to be 18 to play the game and porn is legally only for 18+. I think the issue comes in when a game is rated T because not all the players are legal. I don't know the specifics but I'd argue that would be a reason why this would be controversial. Anyways, the more money in any esports scene the better.
At least in my state, it isn't illegal to be under age and play rated M games. It is simply the suggested age. The only people who restrict it are the game stores; it is their policy to not sell M games to underage players, not a legal policy.
Edit:
On topic, I don't have an issue here. As long as they aren't showing boobs on streams to children and simply advertising as an adult site, this is no problem. I can't believe there is outrage over this, but not things like alcohol. Underage drinking is a bigger problem than a young child seeing some porn, imo.
You are theorycrafting so hard, it's not even funny. Instead of just asking someone at MLG how they feel about such sponsors, you just keep on rambling how Brazzers would kill SC2. And as far as I know, SC2 is quite far from being openly sponsored by Coca-Cola or Pepsi, so don't compare the companies, when the sponsorship from them doesn't even exist. There were no single indication that Brazzers would advertise themselves through porn scenes or whatever. Brand itself is recognized enough to put only a banner. Just don't blow this out of proportion until you have good information on how other sponsors or how tournaments' organizators would react.
On April 04 2012 05:16 nymfaw wrote: Why is porn age restricted anyway? It's only natural
Becuase kids as young as 10 aren't physically or mentally evolved enough to have sex in a healthy way. Even if our societies didn't have a stigma about underage sex those would still be facts.
Strong Island Joe is the best, I'm happy this happened to him.
Not sure how this will all workout though, Capcom certainly wont allow Brazzers to use their titles in an hypothetic tournament, current events TOs seem either to dislike the move or support it but wont show anything related to the brand on stream... Hope he finds a way to make it work.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
I don't really see a bandwagon here. I think any willing sponsor should be able to fund a team.
And people's "moral compass's" really do need to move on in my opinion. Just because there is advertising for adult material does not mean you are compelled to go to the website. If you don't want to, you still don't have to.
This may be different if the material were shown on stream, but I am fairly confident that there will be nothing more than there is on television. I see no problem here.
A lot of people are confusing some issues when it comes to morality, sponsors, and "uptightness". Sponsors and organizers are not invested in morality. They don't and shouldn't care about enforcing any moral paradigm. Why? Because it doesn't serve them to do so. It doesn't improve their bottom line to try to influence morality.
Instead, sponsors and organizers care about viewers and buyers. Those people DO have notions of morality. Those notions inform what sponsors and organizers do because they do not want to lose those viewers and buyers.
The fact that "some people would not be upset" or even that "people should not be upset about it" is irrelevant. People would be upset about it. Upset people hurts the bottom line. Sponsors/organizers have a vested interest in avoiding it.
There's almost nothing you can do to change things (at least in the short term). It takes cultural shifts to change what sponsors and organizers would allow based on what viewers and buyers would find offensive or not.
On April 04 2012 05:24 Takkara wrote: A lot of people are confusing some issues when it comes to morality, sponsors, and "uptightness". Sponsors and organizers are not invested in morality. They don't and shouldn't care about enforcing any moral paradigm. Why? Because it doesn't serve them to do so. It doesn't improve their bottom line to try to influence morality.
Instead, sponsors and organizers care about viewers and buyers. Those people DO have notions of morality. Those notions inform what sponsors and organizers do because they do not want to lose those viewers and buyers.
The fact that "some people would not be upset" or even that "people should not be upset about it" is irrelevant. People would be upset about it. Upset people hurts the bottom line. Sponsors/organizers have a vested interest in avoiding it.
There's almost nothing you can do to change things (at least in the short term). It takes cultural shifts to change what sponsors and organizers would allow based on what viewers and buyers would find offensive or not.
Why do you think you never even see playboy sponsor stuff? Playboy is pretty huge, a lot less intense, and closer to being socially acceptable. Yet you never see them sponsoring sporting events or anything. Don't you think if this sort of thing was actually workable, playboy would have been there and done that?
The only girl I know in 'real life' who plays Starcraft had to change her name from her real first name (one that was obviously female) to something ambiguous to avoid being harassed in ladder games.
The only 40+ I know who follows Starcraft got into it because his 8 and 10 year old both watch tournaments online and follow their favorite players and he wants to share that experience with them.
I'd love to get my coworkers interested in Starcraft. But every time I'm on ladder and my opponent goes off an a racist/homophobic/misogynistic tirade, of is just generically an asshole, I am reminded of why I haven't yet. This would be yet another hurdle to overcome. I'd be embarrassed if they tried Starcraft on my suggestion and were like, "So THIS is the awesome community you were talking about?"
Do you ever want Starcraft and esports to grow beyond a 99% male, 16-22, socially stereotyped, demographic?
Its hard to understand how "bad" this would really be; would sponsors really run away if Brazzers co-sponsored certain teams/players? I have to agree with other posters (starbrift) about how it is ridiculous that porn and sex is stigmatized as dirty, wrong, or "immoral". I get the feeling most of it is based on religion.
I can understand people want e-sports to be all that it can be; but look at the audience who you're appealing to. If we support this, would we not also have the potential of attracting a forward-thinking viewership? We know that most people who are interested in watching these tournaments are of the younger generations; who would be more accepting than them? And if sponsors are ultimately looking for more business from the same audience, I don't see a problem. We should be the ones to support porn and say there is nothing wrong with it, and anyone who continues to view it in an irrational, immoral light is welcome to be phased out by a newer, more progressive (and hopefully, correspondingly intelligent) generation.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?"
Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals.
I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies.
As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me.
Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?"
Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals.
I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies.
As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me.
I'd say a large reason a lot of people would have problems with it would be if they are parents. They don't want their 13 year old, who's probably watching porn anyways behind their parents back, to think it's acceptable. Just like they'd be very upset if a cigarette company sponsored as well. Constant exposure of the 13 year old to the industry via video games would probably piss the parents off.
On April 04 2012 05:24 Takkara wrote: A lot of people are confusing some issues when it comes to morality, sponsors, and "uptightness". Sponsors and organizers are not invested in morality. They don't and shouldn't care about enforcing any moral paradigm. Why? Because it doesn't serve them to do so. It doesn't improve their bottom line to try to influence morality.
Instead, sponsors and organizers care about viewers and buyers. Those people DO have notions of morality. Those notions inform what sponsors and organizers do because they do not want to lose those viewers and buyers.
The fact that "some people would not be upset" or even that "people should not be upset about it" is irrelevant. People would be upset about it. Upset people hurts the bottom line. Sponsors/organizers have a vested interest in avoiding it.
There's almost nothing you can do to change things (at least in the short term). It takes cultural shifts to change what sponsors and organizers would allow based on what viewers and buyers would find offensive or not.
Why do you think you never even see playboy sponsor stuff? Playboy is pretty huge, a lot less intense, and closer to being socially acceptable. Yet you never see them sponsoring sporting events or anything. Don't you think if this sort of thing was actually workable, playboy would have been there and done that?
Playboy has their own television station as well as a show on a public cable channel.
They also sponsor several concerts that I have attended as a main sponsor.
They kind of have been there and done that, with no real backlash. I don't see your argument?
On April 04 2012 05:24 Takkara wrote: A lot of people are confusing some issues when it comes to morality, sponsors, and "uptightness". Sponsors and organizers are not invested in morality. They don't and shouldn't care about enforcing any moral paradigm. Why? Because it doesn't serve them to do so. It doesn't improve their bottom line to try to influence morality.
Instead, sponsors and organizers care about viewers and buyers. Those people DO have notions of morality. Those notions inform what sponsors and organizers do because they do not want to lose those viewers and buyers.
The fact that "some people would not be upset" or even that "people should not be upset about it" is irrelevant. People would be upset about it. Upset people hurts the bottom line. Sponsors/organizers have a vested interest in avoiding it.
There's almost nothing you can do to change things (at least in the short term). It takes cultural shifts to change what sponsors and organizers would allow based on what viewers and buyers would find offensive or not.
Why do you think you never even see playboy sponsor stuff? Playboy is pretty huge, a lot less intense, and closer to being socially acceptable. Yet you never see them sponsoring sporting events or anything. Don't you think if this sort of thing was actually workable, playboy would have been there and done that?
Playboy has their own television station as well as a show on a public cable channel.
They also sponsor several concerts that I have attended as a main sponsor.
They kind of have been there and done that, with no real backlash. I don't see your argument?
To be fair that shit is restricted from minor's view. You have to pay for the channel, and in order to pay, you have to be 18+, so it's regulated by parents.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?"
Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals.
I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies.
As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me.
Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement.
What makes you entitled to an opinion if other people aren't allowed to have an opinion? You think porn is perfectly tasteful, ok that's fine. But why cant others feel that it's distasteful? I'm confused.
I disagree with this not gonna lie . I don't want future pro gamers parents looking at eSports and seeing porn sites sponsor their child's career . It would hurt our image not help it.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?"
Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals.
I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies.
As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me.
I'd say a large reason a lot of people would have problems with it would be if they are parents. They don't want their 13 year old, who's probably watching porn anyways behind their parents back, to think it's acceptable. Just like they'd be very upset if a cigarette company sponsored as well. Constant exposure of the 13 year old to the industry via video games would probably piss the parents off.
I understand your point. But I'd wager that same kid would see about 10 times more alchohol and cigarette advertisements in his daily life than one logo off a shirt.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?"
Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals.
I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies.
As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me.
Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement.
What makes you entitled to an opinion if other people aren't allowed to have an opinion? You think porn is perfectly tasteful, ok that's fine. But why cant others feel that it's distasteful? I'm confused.
No , we are free to find it distasteful and completely out of place. We're just 'stupid ignorant bigot's" for having that opinion. Can't refute that logic no matter how ironic.
Some sponsors are likely to pull sponsorship if they see other brands being aired next to them that can reflect an image they don't want. Coca Cola / Pepsi aren't going to want porn advertised in the same event as them, they'll see it as tarnishing their wholesome image. That's just being realistic.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?"
Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals.
I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies.
As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me.
I'd say a large reason a lot of people would have problems with it would be if they are parents. They don't want their 13 year old, who's probably watching porn anyways behind their parents back, to think it's acceptable. Just like they'd be very upset if a cigarette company sponsored as well. Constant exposure of the 13 year old to the industry via video games would probably piss the parents off.
I understand your point. But I'd wager that same kid would see about 10 times more alchohol and cigarette advertisements in his daily life than one logo off a shirt.
Cigarette advertisements have been massively toned down in the U.S., and alcohol is actually quite hard to purchase yourself if you're under 21. Heavily regulated. Porn, on the other hand, is a click away. And it's not porn itself, but more so the image it represents, embracing sexuality or whatever. Which makes parents think they're kid is going to have a kid at age 15.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?"
Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals.
I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies.
As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me.
Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement.
What makes you entitled to an opinion if other people aren't allowed to have an opinion? You think porn is perfectly tasteful, ok that's fine. But why cant others feel that it's distasteful? I'm confused.
Sure they can, but I made the argument that distaste is irrelevant. Also my earlier points claim that distaste that evolves into outrage over porn is illogical and unreasonable. Anyone is allowed to be illogical and unreasonable. I'd just rather not spend my time around such people if I can help it which is why I made the joke about the space ship.
The fact that military can sponsor things, which is organized violence good bad or ugly anyway you look at it, is acceptable but heaven forbid sex which is natural be associated!
I've never understood this double standard that exists in many societies, maybe not yours but for many of them this is true. For example TV shows constant and excessive cruelty from one human to another. Fighting, shooting, stabbing, scamming and lying, these are all ok to show on TV. However a boob, a bare butt? Oh noes the childrens!!!
I'd rather my kid grow up learning sex is ok when done responsibly rather than that it ok to casually hurt your fellow man, which is what is constantly visually preached on TV.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?"
Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals.
I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies.
As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me.
Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement.
What makes you entitled to an opinion if other people aren't allowed to have an opinion? You think porn is perfectly tasteful, ok that's fine. But why cant others feel that it's distasteful? I'm confused.
Sure they can, but I made the argument that distaste is irrelevant. Also my earlier points claim that distaste that evolves into outrage over porn is illogical and unreasonable. Anyone is allowed to be illogical and unreasonable. I'd just rather not spend my time around such people if I can help it which is why I made the joke about the space ship.
If you were a fan of logic and reason than you would realize that the only thing that matters in this situation is the bottom line. How would brazzers being connected to say MLG for example help make MLG money?
It wouldn't in fact it would do the opposite. Doesn't matter what your opinion is , or my opinion, what matters is how they are going to make money within the REAL WORLD. Not some fantasy land that people think the world should be like.
Porn is a walking death machine, it only ruins lives. I know from experience. It does not provide lasting happiness or fulfillment. It wastes money and shames individuals.
Keep it out of esports, out of everywhere. It's a symptom and a contributor to laziness and lack of self discipline. There is no good at all to come of it.
Breaking news: oral sex leads to increased risk of HPV.
Seriously though, no one in their right mind should want their spouse or bf/gf to watch porn. You should not be "enough," you should be their everything.
Terribly conservative and traditional these views may be, but I only intent to teach others to avoid the misery that always comes after. Porn is the worst drug.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?"
Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals.
I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies.
As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me.
I'd say a large reason a lot of people would have problems with it would be if they are parents. They don't want their 13 year old, who's probably watching porn anyways behind their parents back, to think it's acceptable. Just like they'd be very upset if a cigarette company sponsored as well. Constant exposure of the 13 year old to the industry via video games would probably piss the parents off.
I understand your point. But I'd wager that same kid would see about 10 times more alchohol and cigarette advertisements in his daily life than one logo off a shirt.
Cigarette advertisements have been massively toned down in the U.S., and alcohol is actually quite hard to purchase yourself if you're under 21. Heavily regulated. Porn, on the other hand, is a click away. And it's not porn itself, but more so the image it represents, embracing sexuality or whatever. Which makes parents think they're kid is going to have a kid at age 15.
Of course it's hard to purchase alcohol if you're under 21, but it's easy to find someone/obtain alcohol through other means. Hell, in some areas in the states, obtaining alcohol is just as simple as a clicking your way into a porn site.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?"
Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals.
I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies.
As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me.
Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement.
What makes you entitled to an opinion if other people aren't allowed to have an opinion? You think porn is perfectly tasteful, ok that's fine. But why cant others feel that it's distasteful? I'm confused.
Sure they can, but I made the argument that distaste is irrelevant. Also my earlier points claim that distaste that evolves into outrage over porn is illogical and unreasonable. Anyone is allowed to be illogical and unreasonable. I'd just rather not spend my time around such people if I can help it which is why I made the joke about the space ship.
I'm going to give you some advice that will help you in your lifetime. Whatever you do, do not pursue a career in marketing. At least, not in the US. Not sure how things are over there in Sweden, but look at it this way. As super peachy and tasteful as you believe porn is, what do you think would happen if, instead of redeemable music codes beneath the caps of soda bottles, pepsi decided to put redeemable porn codes under their bottle? I assure you coke would dominate in sales, and pepsi would be firing it's marketing staff. You need to get it through your head that taste or distaste really is relevant. This is about marketing, not paving the way for sexuality or moral and social advancement. Who knows, maybe in 10 or 15 years sex will be completely socially acceptable and it may even be a main selling point for all products. It could become an industry standard. But right now, it's a terrible idea. I sincerely hope you get this.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?"
Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals.
I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies.
As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me.
I'd say a large reason a lot of people would have problems with it would be if they are parents. They don't want their 13 year old, who's probably watching porn anyways behind their parents back, to think it's acceptable. Just like they'd be very upset if a cigarette company sponsored as well. Constant exposure of the 13 year old to the industry via video games would probably piss the parents off.
I understand your point. But I'd wager that same kid would see about 10 times more alchohol and cigarette advertisements in his daily life than one logo off a shirt.
Cigarette advertisements have been massively toned down in the U.S., and alcohol is actually quite hard to purchase yourself if you're under 21. Heavily regulated. Porn, on the other hand, is a click away. And it's not porn itself, but more so the image it represents, embracing sexuality or whatever. Which makes parents think they're kid is going to have a kid at age 15.
Good points again. But I don't think you can solely blame porn for teenage pregnancy. I know for a fact that many states in the US has horrible sex education. Parents are also really bad at controlling what their young teens do at the computer becuase they don't know anything about computers (this is global I'd assume). Those two things coupled with easily accesible porn works together to make that problem bigger.
I personally think that the sex ed part is the most crucial one as the statistics in teen pregnancy quite clearly shows. Maybe there should even be a porn awareness part of sex ed where the teacher tells the kids that porn is not real, girls you don't have to do that thing etc. I guess that probably allready exists in a lot of sex ed curiculum. Can't say for sure as I had mine over 10 years ago before internet porn.
I don't think you can stop teens getting exposed to porn. You can only explain to them that it's not real and everyone doesn't like doing that etc. I also don't believe that having a brazzers logo on an FGC stream will harm any kids or make more teenage pregnancies.
Dont think Brazzer should be in esports I am sorry it doesnt help our image. I know we are stretching for sponsors and money and so forth.. but something in your head must tell you this wont work out... esports is a passion not just in it for the money I understand you gotta eat I understand you gotta pay the rent i get this shit.. i work a full time job on TOP of gaming, as I am sure most of us do. My point is there are tons of other sponsors out there..and if the FGC would just be more patient they will have there time just like counterstrike / sc2 / LoL / dota ... its coming u guys have been waiting just wait a lil longer and intel / others will join the sponsor train.. its just sad we have to do with with a porn site and really offset the sponsors... I
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?"
Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals.
I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies.
As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me.
Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement.
What makes you entitled to an opinion if other people aren't allowed to have an opinion? You think porn is perfectly tasteful, ok that's fine. But why cant others feel that it's distasteful? I'm confused.
Sure they can, but I made the argument that distaste is irrelevant. Also my earlier points claim that distaste that evolves into outrage over porn is illogical and unreasonable. Anyone is allowed to be illogical and unreasonable. I'd just rather not spend my time around such people if I can help it which is why I made the joke about the space ship.
I'm going to give you some advice that will help you in your lifetime. Whatever you do, do not pursue a career in marketing. At least, not in the US. Not sure how things are over there in Sweden, but look at it this way. As super peachy and tasteful as you believe porn is, what do you think would happen if, instead of redeemable music codes beneath the caps of soda bottles, pepsi decided to put redeemable porn codes under their bottle? I assure you coke would dominate in sales, and pepsi would be firing it's marketing staff. You need to get it through your head that taste or distaste really is relevant. This is about marketing, not paving the way for sexuality or moral and social advancement. Who knows, maybe in 10 or 15 years sex will be completely socially acceptable and it may even be a main selling point for all products. It could become an industry standard. But right now, it's a terrible idea. I sincerely hope you get this.
Hey another person that doesn't read the post he replies to HERPDERP. I'm getting pretty tired of replying to you folks but here goes.
I have never said that the people in charge of marketing today are being stupid by adhering to the people's ignorance. I have merely said that people are ignorant! Additionally I would like to see a world where people were not so ignorant! Is that simple enough for everyone else that wants to reply to my posts in the future?
Also no I'm not looking to get into the manipulation buisness that is marketing or law. I studied both breifly and found that I wouldn't enjoy my life aspiring to be the one that can bend the truth most effectively.
The context behind Brazzers as a sponsor is to mock Starcraft and other more popular esports that have large sponsorships behidn them.
The fighting game community is split between people who want to see it grow and become a popular sport, and people who like it staying small and niche and 'underground'.
On April 04 2012 05:59 Fealthas wrote: This is a terrible idea. I see it happening: "So you like esports?" "yup" "So you watch porn all day?" This will give esports a bad name.
To be fair that's kinda the same as being sponsored by an energy drink or hot pockets for example. People will try to stereotype people now matter what.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?"
Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals.
I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies.
As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me.
Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement.
You're arguing from the false assumption that that you represent the majority viewpoint, and the only opposition to this is an outspoken, bigoted minority.
I want to say first that I agree with you, it really shouldn't matter what kind of business sponsors something, as long as it's legal, people should get over it.
However, you have to understand that your viewpoint is extremely narrow. Ok, maybe this is fine in Europe. Do you know what percentage of the world's population lives in Europe? It's only 11%. So, even if every single person in Europe agreed with you (they don't by the way), you would have a small impact on the overall perception of this issue. We want ESPORTS to be global, do you have any idea how poorly something like this would go over in India? It's easy to dismiss cultural differences between the US and Europe as just backwardness and bigotry, but do you really want to go after 90% of the world's population with that argument?
Also, you're arguing that the only possible reason for people to be against this is some sort of prejudice. This is also blatantly false. I know several forward thinking women who identify themselves as feminists who would be extremely against a Brazzer's sponsorship for ESPORTS. They're not against porn in and of itself, but feel that society's growing acceptance of hypersexualized and often derogatory images of women can only lead to problems. Keep in mind these are very reasonable people, not the militant "all men are evil rapist" feminists I'm sure a lot of you are picturing. This issue would clearly fit into that category, since there's no real link between video games and sex, other than both sell quite well. So, are these women bigoted? Can you dismiss their argument out of hand because you're from Europe and thus represent the enlightened, majority viewpoint?
On April 04 2012 05:45 Ansinjunger wrote: Porn is a walking death machine, it only ruins lives. I know from experience. It does not provide lasting happiness or fulfillment. It wastes money and shames individuals.
Keep it out of esports, out of everywhere. It's a symptom and a contributor to laziness and lack of self discipline. There is no good at all to come of it.
Breaking news: oral sex leads to increased risk of HPV.
Seriously though, no one in their right mind should want their spouse or bf/gf to watch porn. You should not be "enough," you should be their everything.
Terribly conservative and traditional these views may be, but I only intent to teach others to avoid the misery that always comes after. Porn is the worst drug.
Everyone that says that shit quietly faps alone at night, and feel terrible when the have to clean up the mess.
On April 04 2012 06:02 JackDT wrote: The context behind Brazzers as a sponsor is to mock Starcraft and other more popular esports that have large sponsorships behidn them.
The fighting game community is split between people who want to see it grow and become a popular sport, and people who like it staying small and niche and 'underground'.
If you think LI Joe is one of the people that want to keep the FGC purely underground you are sorely mistaken. He's been critical but by no means is he one of those people that would rather see it die than get to the next level. Joe is probably one of the few that seems genuinely enthusiastic about making fighting games a big thing.
On April 04 2012 06:02 JackDT wrote: The context behind Brazzers as a sponsor is to mock Starcraft and other more popular esports that have large sponsorships behidn them.
The fighting game community is split between people who want to see it grow and become a popular sport, and people who like it staying small and niche and 'underground'.
If you think LI Joe is one of the people that want to keep the FGC purely underground you are sorely mistaken. He's been critical but by no means is he one of those people that would rather see it die than get to the next level. Joe is probably one of the few that seems genuinely enthusiastic about making fighting games a big thing.
I'm not familiar with the FGC -- he's on the 'esport' side?
Then I really don't get what he's doing. The FGC just got a huge amount negative press after that female competitor quit early from the Capcom livestream because she was so uncomfortable with the sexual harassment, and then the behavior was defended over and over again an 'essential element' of the community. How in the world does he think THIS is a good idea unless he wants to kill the potential for fighting games to expand their audience?
From Fishtix, showing the other side of the FGC:
LG (multi-national corporation) sponsors #FGC and its corporate bullshit, Brazzers sponsor #FGC and its totally cool. REAL FUCKING SMART :\
Apparently #FGC can't help but shoot itself in the foot over and over. This is a horrible look on all levels. And no one is speaking out?
if you think mainstream gaming sites posts are stupid bullshit no one cares about, i really have nothing more to say
something like, oh, i dunno, every single major gaming news outlet bashing the FGC isn't exactly a good thing
On April 04 2012 05:30 JackDT wrote: The only girl I know in 'real life' who plays Starcraft had to change her name from her real first name (one that was obviously female) to something ambiguous to avoid being harassed in ladder games.
The only 40+ I know who follows Starcraft got into it because his 8 and 10 year old both watch tournaments online and follow their favorite players and he wants to share that experience with them.
I'd love to get my coworkers interested in Starcraft. But every time I'm on ladder and my opponent goes off an a racist/homophobic/misogynistic tirade, of is just generically an asshole, I am reminded of why I haven't yet. This would be yet another hurdle to overcome. I'd be embarrassed if they tried Starcraft on my suggestion and were like, "So THIS is the awesome community you were talking about?"
Do you ever want Starcraft and esports to grow beyond a 99% male, 16-22, socially stereotyped, demographic?
IDK if you're new to this anonymous medium, but this happens all over the internet and in internet games... not just starcraft. I agree its pretty dog ethic but people need tougher skin and not expect that the internet is a nice place where everyone respects each other. As long as SC exists on the internet with a playerbase that includes ego driven children, it isn't going to be a place where you should expect proper conversation O_O
On April 04 2012 05:30 JackDT wrote: The only girl I know in 'real life' who plays Starcraft had to change her name from her real first name (one that was obviously female) to something ambiguous to avoid being harassed in ladder games.
The only 40+ I know who follows Starcraft got into it because his 8 and 10 year old both watch tournaments online and follow their favorite players and he wants to share that experience with them.
I'd love to get my coworkers interested in Starcraft. But every time I'm on ladder and my opponent goes off an a racist/homophobic/misogynistic tirade, of is just generically an asshole, I am reminded of why I haven't yet. This would be yet another hurdle to overcome. I'd be embarrassed if they tried Starcraft on my suggestion and were like, "So THIS is the awesome community you were talking about?"
Do you ever want Starcraft and esports to grow beyond a 99% male, 16-22, socially stereotyped, demographic?
this happens all over the internet, not just starcraft. I agree its pretty dog ethic but people need tougher skin and not expect that the internet is a nice place
But it does NOT happen when you watch an MLG tournament, or any Starcraft tournament, and that's what we're talking about here. Places we CAN control it.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?"
Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals.
I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies.
As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me.
Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement.
You're arguing from the false assumption that that you represent the majority viewpoint, and the only opposition to this is an outspoken, bigoted minority.
I want to say first that I agree with you, it really shouldn't matter what kind of business sponsors something, as long as it's legal, people should get over it.
However, you have to understand that your viewpoint is extremely narrow. Ok, maybe this is fine in Europe. Do you know what percentage of the world's population lives in Europe? It's only 11%. So, even if every single person in Europe agreed with you (they don't by the way), you would have a small impact on the overall perception of this issue. We want ESPORTS to be global, do you have any idea how poorly something like this would go over in India? It's easy to dismiss cultural differences between the US and Europe as just backwardness and bigotry, but do you really want to go after 90% of the world's population with that argument?
Also, you're arguing that the only possible reason for people to be against this is some sort of prejudice. This is also blatantly false. I know several forward thinking women who identify themselves as feminists who would be extremely against a Brazzer's sponsorship for ESPORTS. They're not against porn in and of itself, but feel that society's growing acceptance of hypersexualized and often derogatory images of women can only lead to problems. Keep in mind these are very reasonable people, not the militant "all men are evil rapist" feminists I'm sure a lot of you are picturing. This issue would clearly fit into that category, since there's no real link between video games and sex, other than both sell quite well. So, are these women bigoted? Can you dismiss their argument out of hand because you're from Europe and thus represent the enlightened, majority viewpoint?
I don't think I've ever stated that I held a majority viewpoint. Quite on the contrary I have said several times that I'm in the minority and that's why I made my joke about the spaceship etc. I do however claim to be right. I do this based on the arguments I put forth. You are one of the few people that has actually contested them with a real meaningful argument not based on "the world is fucked now live with it".
The feminism perspective is something I have respect for. I agree that women are depicted very unrealistically in mainstream porn. I do not however agree that said porn should be shunned and destroyed because of this. People need to be able to take responsibility for their own actions. Being an adult and not understanding that Brazzers type porn does not reflect reality is a personal problem. It's not Brazzers responsibility to inform people that what they're watching is a fictional fantasy world. People should be intelligent enough to understand that at an adult age.
When we come to teens that question becomes more of a gray area. But as I said earlier I think that's why we need sex ed and paren't need to speak to their kids about the fact that this porn is not real.
On April 04 2012 06:02 JackDT wrote: The context behind Brazzers as a sponsor is to mock Starcraft and other more popular esports that have large sponsorships behidn them.
The fighting game community is split between people who want to see it grow and become a popular sport, and people who like it staying small and niche and 'underground'.
If you think LI Joe is one of the people that want to keep the FGC purely underground you are sorely mistaken. He's been critical but by no means is he one of those people that would rather see it die than get to the next level. Joe is probably one of the few that seems genuinely enthusiastic about making fighting games a big thing.
I'm not familiar with the FGC -- he's on the 'esport' side?
Then I really don't get what he's doing. The FGC just got a huge amount negative press after that female competitor quit early from the Capcom livestream because she was so uncomfortable with the sexual harassment, and then the behavior was defended over and over again an 'essential element' of the community. How in the world does he think THIS is a good idea unless he wants to kill the potential for fighting games to expand their audience?
something like, oh, i dunno, every single major gaming news outlet bashing the FGC isn't exactly a good thing
It's been previously said in this thread, don't let the one jerk off from Cross Assault make the entire FGC look like a sexist bunch. He was an idiot for doing it, and attempted to defend his behavior like you said, deeming sexism as an "essential element' of the community. It's sad that the FGC, which is relatively underground, recieved a mess of bad PR because Aris decided to be a dumbass. But with how money/sponsorships are in the FGC, this Brazzers thing will either do a world of good, or a world of hurt. Also, Fishtix is indeed up in arms about this, but once again one does not represent all. While he may have an issue with it, he doesn't rep the other side of the FGC all by himself.
On April 04 2012 05:45 Ansinjunger wrote: Porn is a walking death machine, it only ruins lives. I know from experience. It does not provide lasting happiness or fulfillment. It wastes money and shames individuals.
Keep it out of esports, out of everywhere. It's a symptom and a contributor to laziness and lack of self discipline. There is no good at all to come of it.
Breaking news: oral sex leads to increased risk of HPV.
Seriously though, no one in their right mind should want their spouse or bf/gf to watch porn. You should not be "enough," you should be their everything.
Terribly conservative and traditional these views may be, but I only intent to teach others to avoid the misery that always comes after. Porn is the worst drug.
On April 04 2012 05:45 Ansinjunger wrote: Porn is a walking death machine, it only ruins lives. I know from experience. It does not provide lasting happiness or fulfillment. It wastes money and shames individuals.
Keep it out of esports, out of everywhere. It's a symptom and a contributor to laziness and lack of self discipline. There is no good at all to come of it.
Breaking news: oral sex leads to increased risk of HPV.
Seriously though, no one in their right mind should want their spouse or bf/gf to watch porn. You should not be "enough," you should be their everything.
Terribly conservative and traditional these views may be, but I only intent to teach others to avoid the misery that always comes after. Porn is the worst drug.
I think you're wrong. Your personal experience is basically meaningless when it's contrasted with the rest of human civilization being basically ok despite porn...>_>
So disgusted of hypocrisy. Whats the big deal with porn? Why is it dirty? We all watch that shit its natural. Better than have people go around raping each other.
Here's a question for all you champions that think a video game tournament is the perfect place for porn site to cross promote. What does it bring to the table?.....What audience is being drawn in due to the presence of brazzers?, Now compare that to what could be lost.
Answer that question and you will understand why this is a bad idea.
Brazzers being a tournament sponsor is silly and somewhat disgusting. Brazzers having a team and competing. Sucks to be in that team but I guess that is ok.
On April 04 2012 06:02 JackDT wrote: The context behind Brazzers as a sponsor is to mock Starcraft and other more popular esports that have large sponsorships behidn them.
The fighting game community is split between people who want to see it grow and become a popular sport, and people who like it staying small and niche and 'underground'.
If you think LI Joe is one of the people that want to keep the FGC purely underground you are sorely mistaken. He's been critical but by no means is he one of those people that would rather see it die than get to the next level. Joe is probably one of the few that seems genuinely enthusiastic about making fighting games a big thing.
I'm not familiar with the FGC -- he's on the 'esport' side?
Then I really don't get what he's doing. The FGC just got a huge amount negative press after that female competitor quit early from the Capcom livestream because she was so uncomfortable with the sexual harassment, and then the behavior was defended over and over again an 'essential element' of the community. How in the world does he think THIS is a good idea unless he wants to kill the potential for fighting games to expand their audience?
something like, oh, i dunno, every single major gaming news outlet bashing the FGC isn't exactly a good thing
The backstory is basically this. LI Joe and another oldschool player/commentator DrSubzero was joking around about a Brazzers sponsorship on their respective streams after some dude made the joke in the stream chat. It then became a running joke / meme in FGC stream chats. Then one day people started tweeting at robsteele with this meme like behaviour. BRZ-LI-Joe was spammed all over twitter for a few days.
So Rob Steele saw this and was like "who the hell are these guys spamming me on twitter?". Some time later he contacts LI Joe and Joe shows him some hype videos and some other highlights from the FGC. Then yesterday Joe has Rob on his show and Rob announces he wants to set up a team and a tournament. He is suprisingly exited about the whole thing. It caught everyone by surprise.
2 hours later Kotaku had made an article with pictures of pornstarts and FGC people in it saying that the FGC was going to get sponsored by a porn website. This is before any of the details are fleshed out mind you.
Also Tom Cannon of EVO and Jebailey of CEO has allready said that they wont allow Brazzers logos on their stream etc. I believe Capcom has gone out and said they wont allow the event either. So yeah it's not going to happen most likely. If Joe can't attend EVO there's not much point in a sponsorship anyway.
As for why Joe would do this. He doesn't know much about marketing and the esports industry in general. He believes there is nothing wrong with Brazzers sponsoring him (as do I) so he went for it. He will probably decline now that capcom + most of the tournament organisers are standing firmly against this though.
On April 04 2012 06:28 careohx wrote: So disgusted of hypocrisy. Whats the big deal with porn? Why is it dirty? We all watch that shit its natural. Better than have people go around raping each other.
Yea , so lets just put it everywhere right? How is it hypcritical to want it kept seperate from the streams i tune in to watch a video game tournament for?
And wtf does rape even have to do with anything? You are so off the wall with w/e point you are trying to make.
On April 04 2012 06:29 Leth0 wrote: Here's a question for all you champions that think a video game tournament is the perfect place for porn site to cross promote. What does it bring to the table?.....What audience is being drawn in due to the presence of brazzers?, Now compare that to what could be lost.
Answer that question and you will understand why this is a bad idea.
Keywords in your post "what could be lost" and to single in on one word "could". Yeah porn probably/most likely doesn't have a place in SC2/E-sports in general, but who knows? LI Joe is taking a gamble and is pushing for it to work out. A lot of things could go wrong, but at the same time a lot of things could go right. We're just going to have to see how this ends up working in the FGC and go from there. Odds are, it's most likely going to fail horribly, mainly with what you've stated. There is just too much to lose for the gamble one must take going through with a sponsor like Brazzers.
On April 04 2012 05:45 Ansinjunger wrote: Porn is a walking death machine, it only ruins lives. I know from experience. It does not provide lasting happiness or fulfillment. It wastes money and shames individuals.
Keep it out of esports, out of everywhere. It's a symptom and a contributor to laziness and lack of self discipline. There is no good at all to come of it.
Breaking news: oral sex leads to increased risk of HPV.
Seriously though, no one in their right mind should want their spouse or bf/gf to watch porn. You should not be "enough," you should be their everything.
Terribly conservative and traditional these views may be, but I only intent to teach others to avoid the misery that always comes after. Porn is the worst drug.
I think you're wrong. Your personal experience is basically meaningless when it's contrasted with the rest of human civilization being basically ok despite porn...>_>
He's most definitely wrong, anytime someone starts discussing "the worst drug" you know logic and good sense has gone out the window in favor of an infatuation with anecdotal experience. Sure, a compulsive masterbater who loses his job, friends and family is a sad tale, but so is a dude sitting in a hospital, unable to control his bodily functions due to years of injecting meth. While we're at it, lets openly lament the state of obesity in the US, a 600 pound man unable to do anything for himself is pretty damn sad. Guess MLG needs to take another look at that Dr. Pepper sponsorship.
(For the record, I don't think this is a good idea in American markets. I'll bet the European scene would be fine with it, but pornography sponsorship would get swept up by the neocon blowhards here in the States and we all saw how companies like Home Depot responded to that kind of pressure.)
On April 04 2012 06:28 careohx wrote: So disgusted of hypocrisy. Whats the big deal with porn? Why is it dirty? We all watch that shit its natural. Better than have people go around raping each other.
Yea , so lets just put it everywhere right? How is it hypcritical to want it kept seperate from the streams i tune in to watch a video game tournament for?
And wtf does rape even have to do with anything? You are so off the wall with w/e point you are trying to make.
It's not like they're going to put actual porn up during tournaments...
Aren't a few UFC fighters sponsored by Reality Kings and other porn websites as well? I think if their logo is there, and they aren't pushing their product, or anything distasteful on you there is no problem.
On April 04 2012 06:29 Leth0 wrote: Here's a question for all you champions that think a video game tournament is the perfect place for porn site to cross promote. What does it bring to the table?.....What audience is being drawn in due to the presence of brazzers?, Now compare that to what could be lost.
Answer that question and you will understand why this is a bad idea.
Keywords in your post "what could be lost" and to single in on one word "could". Yeah porn probably/most likely doesn't have a place in SC2/E-sports in general, but who knows? LI Joe is taking a gamble and is pushing for it to work out. A lot of things could go wrong, but at the same time a lot of things could go right. We're just going to have to see how this ends up working in the FGC and go from there. Odds are, it's most likely going to fail horribly, mainly with what you've stated. There is just too much to lose for the gamble one must take going through with a sponsor like Brazzers.
the thing is, its not could, its would. Companies don't like to be associated with the porn industry, this is a fact. Sponsorships would definitely be lost. Thats why EVO has already come out and said they will not allow anything Brazzers to be shown at the event. Thats why jlake has said the same thing I'm posting. There is no "could go right" here.
On April 04 2012 06:29 Leth0 wrote: Here's a question for all you champions that think a video game tournament is the perfect place for porn site to cross promote. What does it bring to the table?.....What audience is being drawn in due to the presence of brazzers?, Now compare that to what could be lost.
Answer that question and you will understand why this is a bad idea.
Keywords in your post "what could be lost" and to single in on one word "could". Yeah porn probably/most likely doesn't have a place in SC2/E-sports in general, but who knows? LI Joe is taking a gamble and is pushing for it to work out. A lot of things could go wrong, but at the same time a lot of things could go right. We're just going to have to see how this ends up working in the FGC and go from there. Odds are, it's most likely going to fail horribly, mainly with what you've stated. There is just too much to lose for the gamble one must take going through with a sponsor like Brazzers.
Sorry , I should of said what 'would' be lost, because its not a chance.
Absolutely not. I'm not even saying that out of some sense of personal morality, just imagine the PR shitstorm that would be in the US. Gamers have a bad enough media image as it is; do we really need to go out of our way to make it worse?
On April 04 2012 06:28 careohx wrote: So disgusted of hypocrisy. Whats the big deal with porn? Why is it dirty? We all watch that shit its natural. Better than have people go around raping each other.
Yea , so lets just put it everywhere right? How is it hypcritical to want it kept seperate from the streams i tune in to watch a video game tournament for?
And wtf does rape even have to do with anything? You are so off the wall with w/e point you are trying to make.
It's not like they're going to put actual porn up during tournaments...
On April 04 2012 06:38 JackDT wrote: What do you think the chances of Starcraft ever breaking 1% female participation will be with sponsorships like this.
Would likely increase it.
Or are we under the impression our potential audience is religious girls from 1870?
I've got to think that this would be a poisonous sponsor to other sponsors though.
I mean, you don't see Brazzers advertize on Spike TV or something either...its pretty common for things like that not to even be allowed to advertize in a lot of places. Their money isn't worth the potential contamination of other business.
On April 04 2012 05:45 Ansinjunger wrote: Porn is a walking death machine, it only ruins lives. I know from experience. It does not provide lasting happiness or fulfillment. It wastes money and shames individuals.
Keep it out of esports, out of everywhere. It's a symptom and a contributor to laziness and lack of self discipline. There is no good at all to come of it.
Breaking news: oral sex leads to increased risk of HPV.
Seriously though, no one in their right mind should want their spouse or bf/gf to watch porn. You should not be "enough," you should be their everything.
Terribly conservative and traditional these views may be, but I only intent to teach others to avoid the misery that always comes after. Porn is the worst drug.
Just because you coudnt stop jerking off doesnt mean others arent able to control themselves. If porn really was this bad then you would notice it. It would be a super controlled media and most likely illegal. Masturbating is healthy, but not if you are addicted to it. Addiction to anything can bad.
On April 04 2012 06:29 Leth0 wrote: Here's a question for all you champions that think a video game tournament is the perfect place for porn site to cross promote. What does it bring to the table?.....What audience is being drawn in due to the presence of brazzers?, Now compare that to what could be lost.
Answer that question and you will understand why this is a bad idea.
I don't think you understand the point of sponsors to professional sports or gaming. The sponsors job is to pay players and / or teams and help them excell. The players bring in viewers becuase people are there to watch a competition. These viewers then go out and buy the product that the sponsor advertises.
Sponsors are not supposed to draw in people. No one watches the Super Bowl because Coca Cola advertises during it. They watch it because of the teams competing. So yeah, a company can scare people away from an event. But it will not draw people into it.
If you spent half the time you do prosecuting people with sarky comments by reading your own posts then you could find very obvious answers for your questions. "What does it bring to the table?" Money.
Alcohol ruins more lives in a year than Porn has ever "ruined" in its entire existence, so if it is acceptable (even encouraged) for major sports organizations like the MLB and NFL to run back-to-back beer commercials then it should be fine for eSports to have porn sponsorship.
On April 04 2012 06:29 Leth0 wrote: Here's a question for all you champions that think a video game tournament is the perfect place for porn site to cross promote. What does it bring to the table?.....What audience is being drawn in due to the presence of brazzers?, Now compare that to what could be lost.
Answer that question and you will understand why this is a bad idea.
I don't think you understand the point of sponsors to professional sports or gaming. The sponsors job is to pay players and / or teams and help them excell. The players bring in viewers becuase people are there to watch a competition. These viewers then go out and buy the product that the sponsor advertises.
Sponsors are not supposed to draw in people. No one watches the Super Bowl because Coca Cola advertises during it. They watch it because of the teams competing. So yeah, a company can scare people away from an event. But it will not draw people into it.
If you spent half the time you do prosecuting people with sarky comments by reading your own posts then you could find very obvious answers for your questions. "What does it bring to the table?" Money.
On April 04 2012 06:29 Leth0 wrote: Here's a question for all you champions that think a video game tournament is the perfect place for porn site to cross promote. What does it bring to the table?.....What audience is being drawn in due to the presence of brazzers?, Now compare that to what could be lost.
Answer that question and you will understand why this is a bad idea.
I don't think you understand the point of sponsors to professional sports or gaming. The sponsors job is to pay players and / or teams and help them excell. The players bring in viewers becuase people are there to watch a competition. These viewers then go out and buy the product that the sponsor advertises.
Sponsors are not supposed to draw in people. No one watches the Super Bowl because Coca Cola advertises during it. They watch it because of the teams competing. So yeah, a company can scare people away from an event. But it will not draw people into it.
If you spent half the time you do prosecuting people with sarky comments by reading your own posts then you could find very obvious answers for your questions. "What does it bring to the table?" Money.
You are already wrong. The sponsors job is to make an intelligent investment and get a RETURN on that investment.
What does it bring to the table "money", oh but wait, by virture of it being there, even more money is being taken off the table. It's not snarky, its realistic.
On April 04 2012 06:29 Leth0 wrote: Here's a question for all you champions that think a video game tournament is the perfect place for porn site to cross promote. What does it bring to the table?.....What audience is being drawn in due to the presence of brazzers?, Now compare that to what could be lost.
Answer that question and you will understand why this is a bad idea.
I don't think you understand the point of sponsors to professional sports or gaming. The sponsors job is to pay players and / or teams and help them excell. The players bring in viewers becuase people are there to watch a competition. These viewers then go out and buy the product that the sponsor advertises.
Sponsors are not supposed to draw in people. No one watches the Super Bowl because Coca Cola advertises during it. They watch it because of the teams competing. So yeah, a company can scare people away from an event. But it will not draw people into it.
If you spent half the time you do prosecuting people with sarky comments by reading your own posts then you could find very obvious answers for your questions. "What does it bring to the table?" Money.
You are already wrong. The sponsors job is to make an intelligent investment and get a RETURN on that investment..
Yeah that's actually exactly what he said. Sponsor supports player --> Player does well --> Player's viewers support sponsor. That sounds like an investment to me.
On April 04 2012 06:29 Leth0 wrote: Here's a question for all you champions that think a video game tournament is the perfect place for porn site to cross promote. What does it bring to the table?.....What audience is being drawn in due to the presence of brazzers?, Now compare that to what could be lost.
Answer that question and you will understand why this is a bad idea.
I don't think you understand the point of sponsors to professional sports or gaming. The sponsors job is to pay players and / or teams and help them excell. The players bring in viewers becuase people are there to watch a competition. These viewers then go out and buy the product that the sponsor advertises.
Sponsors are not supposed to draw in people. No one watches the Super Bowl because Coca Cola advertises during it. They watch it because of the teams competing. So yeah, a company can scare people away from an event. But it will not draw people into it.
If you spent half the time you do prosecuting people with sarky comments by reading your own posts then you could find very obvious answers for your questions. "What does it bring to the table?" Money.
You are already wrong. The sponsors job is to make an intelligent investment and get a RETURN on that investment..
Yeah that's actually exactly what he said. Sponsor supports player --> Player does well --> Player's viewers support sponsor. That sounds like an investment to me.
Players doing well is only a fraction of what gets a sponsor a return on that investment. Sponsors are not paying people to excell, they are paying them to help sell their license. HUGE difference.
Easy example, Idra has been playing like shit lately, but he helps promote his brand more so than someone like "socke" does by winning some small tournament
On April 04 2012 06:28 careohx wrote: So disgusted of hypocrisy. Whats the big deal with porn? Why is it dirty? We all watch that shit its natural. Better than have people go around raping each other.
Yea , so lets just put it everywhere right? How is it hypcritical to want it kept seperate from the streams i tune in to watch a video game tournament for?
And wtf does rape even have to do with anything? You are so off the wall with w/e point you are trying to make.
It's not like they're going to put actual porn up during tournaments...
It's just advertising...>_>
It's tasteless.
How is it tasteless?
If Brazzers wants to give money to an esports community, I say let them. Money is money.
Btw, while I'm on board with adverts playing their content and that kind of thing being over a line that's acceptable to sponsors is having a Brazzers patch on a jacket like a korean team and being announced as Brazzers *playername* really that unacceptable? It's not like you're going to get hardcore porn played in between matches as an advert....
If the content is never even mentioned and it's just a team name and a name on a shirt... is it really going to destroy the moral fabric of our youth anymore so than the content of the games that are being played themselves? Look at halo/cod/whatever/mortal kombat - this is acceptable - but just the name brazzers is going to make people run for the hills?
On April 04 2012 01:41 vOdToasT wrote: The fighting game scene is a huge disgusting joke, lol. Try being a woman in it, or even worse, a transsexual, and you will get treated like absolute trash.
Which makes it funny that they would ban any logos of Brazzers on their stream. Really, porn isn´t ok, but all the other shit that goes on in the fighting game community is...
Kayo Police and Ricky Ortiz get treated fine, don't let one asshat on cross assault ruin the impression for you :p
Ricky Ortiz is a homosexual. I wasn´t talking about homosexuals. My girlfriend was a Guilty Gear and Soul Calibur player for a while and won a bunch of tournaments, and was very much involved in the community. I´m not pulling stuff out of my ass
Ricky actually isn't gay btw.
Yes, he is.
And Kayo Police is a mtf transsexual. She gets treated very well at every event she goes to.
And what about the ones who don´t get treated well? She´s just one person. (Besides, I wasn´t necessarily talking about organizers, more the community - the players she plays against and the audience she plays for) I would be open minded to the possibility of things having changed since, but then the streaming incident happened where a female player was shit on so much that she didn´t even want to continue playing in the event, so it seems like it´s still business as usual. If there were female SC2 players who were actually good and playing in tournaments, would that EVER happen AT ALL?
There's also Karaface.
And the funny thing about the Cross Assault deal is the fact that Aris, the one that this whole situation was caused by, is a big fan of Kayo Police and even commentated with her at EVO last year.
And maybe it would happen to SC2 female players. Remember the uproar over SlayerS_Eve? Perhaps not sexual harassment, but people were getting all over her because she is a girl.
i dont think it would really be a good idea, but only because people act really stupidly about porn. personally, i wouldnt have a problem with it. i think that the drunk SOTG episode was way worse than a simple brazzers logo appearing on screen. alcohol ruins way more lives than porn ever has.
People seem to be ignoring how people outside of our little esports bubble would see this. Whether or not your moral compass would accept this isn't the issue, it's the issue of people on the outside. No one should care about if we accept it or not because most of us would still watch WhiteRa play no matter who he was sponsored by.
However, the problem with this comes up when you want other companies to sponsor teams and even if you think it's stupid it's not going to change the fact that companies will probably see it as more of a loss than a gain if they sponsor a team with a porn industry label next to theirs. You can call it bad business or stupid or whatever the hell you want but at the end of the day it IS business and I can guarantee the businesses with money are the businesses with a PR division and almost all, if not all, of them will not be too thrilled to slap their logo/brand/name on a product or website next to a porn company's logo.
It's easier for little Billy to explain to his parents who the companies are and what services/products they provide that have banners and tents at MLG when they aren't porn companies. Imagine an MLG with a Brazzers booth giving out free trial memberships and condoms. People can say "LOL THAT'S SO FUNNY" all they want but the people who have money, reputations and stock holders won't be there yucking it up and giving high fives with you.
On April 04 2012 06:29 Leth0 wrote: Here's a question for all you champions that think a video game tournament is the perfect place for porn site to cross promote. What does it bring to the table?.....What audience is being drawn in due to the presence of brazzers?, Now compare that to what could be lost.
Answer that question and you will understand why this is a bad idea.
I don't think you understand the point of sponsors to professional sports or gaming. The sponsors job is to pay players and / or teams and help them excell. The players bring in viewers becuase people are there to watch a competition. These viewers then go out and buy the product that the sponsor advertises.
Sponsors are not supposed to draw in people. No one watches the Super Bowl because Coca Cola advertises during it. They watch it because of the teams competing. So yeah, a company can scare people away from an event. But it will not draw people into it.
If you spent half the time you do prosecuting people with sarky comments by reading your own posts then you could find very obvious answers for your questions. "What does it bring to the table?" Money.
You are already wrong. The sponsors job is to make an intelligent investment and get a RETURN on that investment..
Yeah that's actually exactly what he said. Sponsor supports player --> Player does well --> Player's viewers support sponsor. That sounds like an investment to me.
Players doing well is only a fraction of what gets a sponsor a return on that investment. Sponsors are not paying people to excell, they are paying them to help sell their license. HUGE difference.
Easy example, Idra has been playing like shit lately, but he helps promote his brand more so than someone like "socke" does by winning some small tournament
Both me and Jerglings have in our post outlined the exact process of how a sponsor makes money. I suggest you being a fucking douchebag and ignoring VERY CLEAR explanations and then follow up by trying to ridicule us by deconstructing and misquoting.
Either way I'm done arguing with you. Several times you have commented on my and others posts without fully reading them. Misquoting and taking stuff out of context. You have made some of the poorest arguments I've ever seen on TL and that says a lot.
My only regret is that I wasted close to 2 hours in this thread when all you do is attack people constantly. I really hope you find some other outlet of your need for personal vendettas so that you can stop plaguing people trying to have a serious discussion.
On April 04 2012 06:28 careohx wrote: So disgusted of hypocrisy. Whats the big deal with porn? Why is it dirty? We all watch that shit its natural. Better than have people go around raping each other.
Yea , so lets just put it everywhere right? How is it hypcritical to want it kept seperate from the streams i tune in to watch a video game tournament for?
And wtf does rape even have to do with anything? You are so off the wall with w/e point you are trying to make.
It's not like they're going to put actual porn up during tournaments...
It's just advertising...>_>
It's tasteless.
How is it tasteless?
If Brazzers wants to give money to an esports community, I say let them. Money is money.
And they will need to put up a ton of money because when they start to sponsor events, every other sponsor is going to drop their sponsorship
Porn will turn away other sponsors. If the FGC wants to keep digging a hole for themselves then by all means take the sponsorship. However, the FGC has shown in the past that they like to differentiate themselves from the rest of the competitive gaming community. So i'm not surprised that a lot of people in the FGC are okay with this. It seems the FGC is more concerned about preserving what they already have, than actually growing their "brand".
I used to think TL was a relatively intelligent internet community. Then I read a thread where people advocated for a rape simulation porn site to be an acceptable sponsor of teams. I mean I know you want your internet arguments to get attention and all, but you people should think a little more before you post. If you really think that a Brazzers sponsorship wouldn't turn away other sponsors, you simply aren't smart.
Not that Brazzers is actually going to sponsor any SC2 team or player, of course. That's just a possibility the OP threw out there for his thread to get more attention. I'm not actually sure why this is in the SC2 section.
Ehh. I think its quite grimy for a porn production company to sponsor professional gaming. I would like to see pro StarCraft 2 on TV in America, and major media companies will see it as a joke if it has porn sponsorship.
On April 04 2012 01:22 solidbebe wrote: There are alot of people <18 watching SC2 events/streams. Something would need to be done against this for any tournament to keep legally streaming.
Well there's plenty of advertising of beer and stuff on tv, at any time of the day.
Yeah but is there porn?
On cable there is for like Playboy TV and shit like that
Yea but you have to specifically pay for said channel.. the only porn that comes on TV that you don't have to specifically unlock is on HBO/Showtime and its softcore stuff and in the middle of the night
also i think its awesome that brazzers is involved lol, but i can see how there are issues.
On April 04 2012 06:29 Leth0 wrote: Here's a question for all you champions that think a video game tournament is the perfect place for porn site to cross promote. What does it bring to the table?.....What audience is being drawn in due to the presence of brazzers?, Now compare that to what could be lost.
Answer that question and you will understand why this is a bad idea.
I don't think you understand the point of sponsors to professional sports or gaming. The sponsors job is to pay players and / or teams and help them excell. The players bring in viewers becuase people are there to watch a competition. These viewers then go out and buy the product that the sponsor advertises.
Sponsors are not supposed to draw in people. No one watches the Super Bowl because Coca Cola advertises during it. They watch it because of the teams competing. So yeah, a company can scare people away from an event. But it will not draw people into it.
If you spent half the time you do prosecuting people with sarky comments by reading your own posts then you could find very obvious answers for your questions. "What does it bring to the table?" Money.
You are already wrong. The sponsors job is to make an intelligent investment and get a RETURN on that investment..
Yeah that's actually exactly what he said. Sponsor supports player --> Player does well --> Player's viewers support sponsor. That sounds like an investment to me.
Players doing well is only a fraction of what gets a sponsor a return on that investment. Sponsors are not paying people to excell, they are paying them to help sell their license. HUGE difference.
Easy example, Idra has been playing like shit lately, but he helps promote his brand more so than someone like "socke" does by winning some small tournament
Both me and Jerglings have in our post outlined the exact process of how a sponsor makes money. I suggest you being a fucking douchebag and ignoring VERY CLEAR explanations and then follow up by trying to ridicule us by deconstructing and misquoting.
Either way I'm done arguing with you. Several times you have commented on my and others posts without fully reading them. Misquoting and taking stuff out of context. You have made some of the poorest arguments I've ever seen on TL and that says a lot.
My only regret is that I wasted close to 2 hours in this thread when all you do is attack people constantly. I really hope you find some other outlet of your need for personal vendettas so that you can stop plaguing people trying to have a serious discussion.
Have a nice evening.
I've misquoted nothing, read everything before responding, and articulated my points as well as I'm going to do. Meanwhile you're the one calling people "fucking douchebags" and talking down to us as if our opinions on the matter make us 'unworthy' of talking to you. It's laughable to think you are trying to have a 'serious' conversation after calling us all bigots and ignorants.
It's all to obvious that you are incapable of having a 'serious' conversation without getting so emotionally invested that in the end you just resort to petty insults and lashing out at anyone you disagree with. So I'm done talking to you.
On April 04 2012 07:03 Doodsmack wrote: I used to think TL was a relatively intelligent internet community. Then I read a thread where people advocated for a rape simulation porn site to be an acceptable sponsor of teams. I mean I know you want your internet arguments to get attention and all, but you people should think a little more before you post. If you really think that a Brazzers sponsorship wouldn't turn away other sponsors, you simply aren't smart.
Not that Brazzers is actually going to sponsor any SC2 team or player, of course. That's just a possibility the OP threw out there for his thread to get more attention. I'm not actually sure why this is in the SC2 section.
It was probably thrown in this section to garner more attention. That and almost everyone involved in professional gaming has had something to say about this.
On April 04 2012 06:28 careohx wrote: So disgusted of hypocrisy. Whats the big deal with porn? Why is it dirty? We all watch that shit its natural. Better than have people go around raping each other.
Yea , so lets just put it everywhere right? How is it hypcritical to want it kept seperate from the streams i tune in to watch a video game tournament for?
And wtf does rape even have to do with anything? You are so off the wall with w/e point you are trying to make.
It's not like they're going to put actual porn up during tournaments...
It's just advertising...>_>
It's tasteless.
How is it tasteless?
If Brazzers wants to give money to an esports community, I say let them. Money is money.
And they will need to put up a ton of money because when they start to sponsor events, every other sponsor is going to drop their sponsorship
But why would they? I don't understand what's wrong with the vast majority of people that have a problem with this...
On April 04 2012 06:38 JackDT wrote: What do you think the chances of Starcraft ever breaking 1% female participation will be with sponsorships like this.
girls watch porn too, dont worry.
On April 04 2012 07:07 dekarp wrote: No, just no. Anyone who thinks otherwise is pretty naive.
ah ha, thanks to your well argued point i now see the error of my ways!
1) The demonization of porn is a joke. It's been said a million times in this thread, so I won't spend long on it, but nobody has that one uncle who watches too much porn and beats his wife. Sex, porn, drugs and cigarettes being untouchable by mainstream media or culture while violence and alcohol remain as American as apple pie is a joke. If Dale Earnhardt's car can have BUDWEISER in massive letters, LI Joe should be able to have BRAZZERS on his shirt.
2) However, we do, in fact, live in a world where alcohol and porn are viewed differently. The greater ethics issue of it isn't that relevant here. Corporate sponsors do not want to be associated with porn, nor should they want to be, as many members of the public have moronic views on it being evil. I understand this. So, in this case, Starcraft 2 should not have porn sponsorships. Companies like FXOpen, Monster and Intel are very real sponsors that simply cannot associate with porn in today's world.
3) But fighting games aren't Starcraft. Jason Lake has a unique viewpoint here, as he's really one of two men in positions of power in eSports who have put faith in fighting games. However, other than the 8 players sponsored by either CompLexity Cross Counter or Evil Geniuses (not including gootecks :_(, also, I guess Razer sponsors Latif ) nothing is really sponsored by anything outside of fighting games. Tournaments are sponsored by stick companies (Hori or Mad Catz) and the companies that make the games. Most teams (other than EG or coL.CC) are either sponsored by Mad Catz or lack major sponsorship entirely.
To me, this is a message to those blocking fighting games from adapting to become a part of the "eSports world" and getting dat eSports money. This is LI Joe saying to everyone who is preventing MLG from becoming a part of the fighting game world *cough* Tom Cannon *cough* "If you're going to stop me from getting my money through prize winnings, I'll get it myself."
On April 04 2012 06:29 Leth0 wrote: Here's a question for all you champions that think a video game tournament is the perfect place for porn site to cross promote. What does it bring to the table?.....What audience is being drawn in due to the presence of brazzers?, Now compare that to what could be lost.
Answer that question and you will understand why this is a bad idea.
I don't think you understand the point of sponsors to professional sports or gaming. The sponsors job is to pay players and / or teams and help them excell. The players bring in viewers becuase people are there to watch a competition. These viewers then go out and buy the product that the sponsor advertises.
Sponsors are not supposed to draw in people. No one watches the Super Bowl because Coca Cola advertises during it. They watch it because of the teams competing. So yeah, a company can scare people away from an event. But it will not draw people into it.
If you spent half the time you do prosecuting people with sarky comments by reading your own posts then you could find very obvious answers for your questions. "What does it bring to the table?" Money.
You are already wrong. The sponsors job is to make an intelligent investment and get a RETURN on that investment..
Yeah that's actually exactly what he said. Sponsor supports player --> Player does well --> Player's viewers support sponsor. That sounds like an investment to me.
Players doing well is only a fraction of what gets a sponsor a return on that investment. Sponsors are not paying people to excell, they are paying them to help sell their license. HUGE difference.
Easy example, Idra has been playing like shit lately, but he helps promote his brand more so than someone like "socke" does by winning some small tournament
Both me and Jerglings have in our post outlined the exact process of how a sponsor makes money. I suggest you being a fucking douchebag and ignoring VERY CLEAR explanations and then follow up by trying to ridicule us by deconstructing and misquoting.
Either way I'm done arguing with you. Several times you have commented on my and others posts without fully reading them. Misquoting and taking stuff out of context. You have made some of the poorest arguments I've ever seen on TL and that says a lot.
My only regret is that I wasted close to 2 hours in this thread when all you do is attack people constantly. I really hope you find some other outlet of your need for personal vendettas so that you can stop plaguing people trying to have a serious discussion.
Have a nice evening.
I've misquoted nothing, read everything before responding, and articulated my points as well as I'm going to do. Meanwhile you're the one calling people "fucking douchebags" and talking down to us as if our opinions on the matter make us 'unworthy' of talking to you. It's laughable to think you are trying to have a 'serious' conversation after calling us all bigots and ignorants.
It's all to obvious that you are incapable of having a 'serious' conversation without getting so emotionally invested that in the end you just resort to petty insults and lashing out at anyone you disagree with. So I'm done talking to you.
Weren't you being Mr. Macho man earlier saying people need to go outside and find a girl?
On April 04 2012 03:12 Leth0 wrote: If you are so hard up that you need porn at video game tournaments than you need to go outside and find a woman.
I'd say you're talking down to a few people.
Edit: Also done with this thread, it's been somewhat of a nightmare with the arguments going on.
On April 04 2012 06:28 careohx wrote: So disgusted of hypocrisy. Whats the big deal with porn? Why is it dirty? We all watch that shit its natural. Better than have people go around raping each other.
Yea , so lets just put it everywhere right? How is it hypcritical to want it kept seperate from the streams i tune in to watch a video game tournament for?
And wtf does rape even have to do with anything? You are so off the wall with w/e point you are trying to make.
It's not like they're going to put actual porn up during tournaments...
It's just advertising...>_>
It's tasteless.
How is it tasteless?
If Brazzers wants to give money to an esports community, I say let them. Money is money.
And they will need to put up a ton of money because when they start to sponsor events, every other sponsor is going to drop their sponsorship
But why would they? I don't understand what's wrong with the vast majority of people that have a problem with this...
Associating your company with porn is a big no no. Do you really not know this?
for fgc it wouldnt hurt i think since the community isnt so serious about things as sc2
and honestly i think having genuine support is way better than havin ppl who dont care too much trow some scraps at u for brand placement... it may be too early for this... but the idea is solid.. maybe just a bit too early for some ppl to accept.. but then again lets face it... if porn industry would support anything then gaming is it... the crowd just fits... there may be some legal issues... but then its a problem with the law couse honestly almost everyone have watched porn @ 16 + and that even isnt a big deal. but hey,...theres lots of things wrong in the world
both industries are sort of underground... no matter how big it will get it may take a while for the general public to fully accept it and theres no real reason why both couldnt make each other stronger. and if it takes of i can allready envision some off the hook events in the future ... for fgc anyway
On April 04 2012 06:58 Treva wrote: People seem to be ignoring how people outside of our little esports bubble would see this. Whether or not your moral compass would accept this isn't the issue, it's the issue of people on the outside. No one should care about if we accept it or not because most of us would still watch WhiteRa play even if he was sponsored by an abortion clinic.
However, the problem with this comes up when you want other companies to sponsor teams and even if you think it's stupid it's not going to change the fact that companies will probably see it as more of a loss than a gain if they sponsor a team with a porn industry label next to theirs. You can call it bad business or stupid or whatever the hell you want but at the end of the day it IS business and I can guarantee the businesses with money are the businesses with a PR division and almost all, if not all, of them will not be too thrilled to slap their logo/brand/name on a product or website next to a porn company's logo.
It's easier for little Billy to explain to his parents who the companies are and what services/products they provide that have banners and tents at MLG when they aren't porn companies. Imagine an MLG with a Brazzers booth giving out free trial memberships and condoms. People can say "LOL THAT'S SO FUNNY" all they want but the people who have money, reputations and stock holders won't be there yucking it up and giving high fives with you.
A fairly thoughtful post ruined by the hatred of women evidenced by the slur "abortion clinic".
What you mean is a reproductive health establishment like Planned Parenthood? If White-Ra was sponsored by PP he would not only get money but also gain significant audience just be being supported by a truly great establishment like PP.
Ofcourse PP gains nothing from the sponsorship since the demographics don't match. Brazzers might profit because I imagine the demographics are spot on.
But porn is no worse than a tobacco company or an alcohol company sponsoring an event. I regularly watch F1 which is sponsored by tobacco companies. I don't sit and think "oh shit man, Scuderia Marlboro Ferrari is getting millions from Marlboro - I should stop supporting them". I watched the Johnny Walker PGA tour and I didn't think "alcoholism ruins life, and look how many car accidents because of the alcohol". Sponsors don't define the event, the event actually defines the sponsors. It might be bad for a nascent industry like e-sport, but realistically a sponsorship from brazzers is no worse than a sponsorship from Marlboro or Johnny Walker for an established sport.
Also I think Brazzers needs more brand recognition in the target demo. I had to google them.
On April 04 2012 06:29 Leth0 wrote: Here's a question for all you champions that think a video game tournament is the perfect place for porn site to cross promote. What does it bring to the table?.....What audience is being drawn in due to the presence of brazzers?, Now compare that to what could be lost.
Answer that question and you will understand why this is a bad idea.
I don't think you understand the point of sponsors to professional sports or gaming. The sponsors job is to pay players and / or teams and help them excell. The players bring in viewers becuase people are there to watch a competition. These viewers then go out and buy the product that the sponsor advertises.
Sponsors are not supposed to draw in people. No one watches the Super Bowl because Coca Cola advertises during it. They watch it because of the teams competing. So yeah, a company can scare people away from an event. But it will not draw people into it.
If you spent half the time you do prosecuting people with sarky comments by reading your own posts then you could find very obvious answers for your questions. "What does it bring to the table?" Money.
You are already wrong. The sponsors job is to make an intelligent investment and get a RETURN on that investment..
Yeah that's actually exactly what he said. Sponsor supports player --> Player does well --> Player's viewers support sponsor. That sounds like an investment to me.
Players doing well is only a fraction of what gets a sponsor a return on that investment. Sponsors are not paying people to excell, they are paying them to help sell their license. HUGE difference.
Easy example, Idra has been playing like shit lately, but he helps promote his brand more so than someone like "socke" does by winning some small tournament
Both me and Jerglings have in our post outlined the exact process of how a sponsor makes money. I suggest you being a fucking douchebag and ignoring VERY CLEAR explanations and then follow up by trying to ridicule us by deconstructing and misquoting.
Either way I'm done arguing with you. Several times you have commented on my and others posts without fully reading them. Misquoting and taking stuff out of context. You have made some of the poorest arguments I've ever seen on TL and that says a lot.
My only regret is that I wasted close to 2 hours in this thread when all you do is attack people constantly. I really hope you find some other outlet of your need for personal vendettas so that you can stop plaguing people trying to have a serious discussion.
Have a nice evening.
I've misquoted nothing, read everything before responding, and articulated my points as well as I'm going to do. Meanwhile you're the one calling people "fucking douchebags" and talking down to us as if our opinions on the matter make us 'unworthy' of talking to you. It's laughable to think you are trying to have a 'serious' conversation after calling us all bigots and ignorants.
It's all to obvious that you are incapable of having a 'serious' conversation without getting so emotionally invested that in the end you just resort to petty insults and lashing out at anyone you disagree with. So I'm done talking to you.
Weren't you being Mr. Macho man earlier saying people need to go outside and find a girl?
On April 04 2012 03:12 Leth0 wrote: If you are so hard up that you need porn at video game tournaments than you need to go outside and find a woman.
I'd say you're talking down to a few people.
Edit: Also done with this thread, it's been somewhat of a nightmare with the arguments going on.
How is that macho? I stand by that statement. That's not talking down to anyone, I didn't point someone out and say "you need to go find a woman" I said what I said and I meant it. If you are so hard up that porn sponsors for a video game tournament entices you than you probably should find a woman.
Like it should be known, a sponsor, will sponsor something, or someone in order to help promote their brand, license or w/e it is they do. It doesn't make sense for this scene.
awwwww yeeeaaaaaaaa they should put teamliquid or some big esport site on their site so everytime someone watches porn they'll see the "team liquid" logo and just might click n get addicted to something much sexier than porn
On April 04 2012 06:28 careohx wrote: So disgusted of hypocrisy. Whats the big deal with porn? Why is it dirty? We all watch that shit its natural. Better than have people go around raping each other.
Yea , so lets just put it everywhere right? How is it hypcritical to want it kept seperate from the streams i tune in to watch a video game tournament for?
And wtf does rape even have to do with anything? You are so off the wall with w/e point you are trying to make.
It's not like they're going to put actual porn up during tournaments...
It's just advertising...>_>
It's tasteless.
How is it tasteless?
If Brazzers wants to give money to an esports community, I say let them. Money is money.
And they will need to put up a ton of money because when they start to sponsor events, every other sponsor is going to drop their sponsorship
But why would they? I don't understand what's wrong with the vast majority of people that have a problem with this...
Associating your company with porn is a big no no. Do you really not know this?
Who's company? What companies are invested in the FGC?
And secondly, why?
The fact that people have an aversion to porn is so ridiculous considering how incredibly successful the industry is. Most likely being paid in part by the very people who talk it down.
On April 04 2012 01:18 emc wrote: not a big deal if the game is rated M because you have to be 18 to play the game and porn is legally only for 18+. I think the issue comes in when a game is rated T because not all the players are legal. I don't know the specifics but I'd argue that would be a reason why this would be controversial. Anyways, the more money in any esports scene the better.
I think this is the main issue here most people have with Brazzers trying to become a sponsor. Of course it could benefit both industries tremendously (Sponsorship for E-Sports and advertisement for... porn...) but the main problem I have with this is that the E-Sports is not a industry that is 18+. We even have underage progamers. It's like saying "Porn is something that is okay to be nondiscrete about in front of teens and below who play SCII" (not saying this is a good or bad thing). It's just something to consider when putting things into perspective.
Normal sponsorship rules don't apply here, I don't understand why people think Brazzers is sponsoring it to get a return on their investment. I really doubt they are all that tight with their money, and from what was said in the interview, they make a LOT of money. I think its more because some of them are gamers than anything else.
On April 04 2012 06:29 Leth0 wrote: Here's a question for all you champions that think a video game tournament is the perfect place for porn site to cross promote. What does it bring to the table?.....What audience is being drawn in due to the presence of brazzers?, Now compare that to what could be lost.
Answer that question and you will understand why this is a bad idea.
I don't think you understand the point of sponsors to professional sports or gaming. The sponsors job is to pay players and / or teams and help them excell. The players bring in viewers becuase people are there to watch a competition. These viewers then go out and buy the product that the sponsor advertises.
Sponsors are not supposed to draw in people. No one watches the Super Bowl because Coca Cola advertises during it. They watch it because of the teams competing. So yeah, a company can scare people away from an event. But it will not draw people into it.
If you spent half the time you do prosecuting people with sarky comments by reading your own posts then you could find very obvious answers for your questions. "What does it bring to the table?" Money.
You are already wrong. The sponsors job is to make an intelligent investment and get a RETURN on that investment..
Yeah that's actually exactly what he said. Sponsor supports player --> Player does well --> Player's viewers support sponsor. That sounds like an investment to me.
Players doing well is only a fraction of what gets a sponsor a return on that investment. Sponsors are not paying people to excell, they are paying them to help sell their license. HUGE difference.
Easy example, Idra has been playing like shit lately, but he helps promote his brand more so than someone like "socke" does by winning some small tournament
Both me and Jerglings have in our post outlined the exact process of how a sponsor makes money. I suggest you being a fucking douchebag and ignoring VERY CLEAR explanations and then follow up by trying to ridicule us by deconstructing and misquoting.
Either way I'm done arguing with you. Several times you have commented on my and others posts without fully reading them. Misquoting and taking stuff out of context. You have made some of the poorest arguments I've ever seen on TL and that says a lot.
My only regret is that I wasted close to 2 hours in this thread when all you do is attack people constantly. I really hope you find some other outlet of your need for personal vendettas so that you can stop plaguing people trying to have a serious discussion.
Have a nice evening.
I've misquoted nothing, read everything before responding, and articulated my points as well as I'm going to do. Meanwhile you're the one calling people "fucking douchebags" and talking down to us as if our opinions on the matter make us 'unworthy' of talking to you. It's laughable to think you are trying to have a 'serious' conversation after calling us all bigots and ignorants.
It's all to obvious that you are incapable of having a 'serious' conversation without getting so emotionally invested that in the end you just resort to petty insults and lashing out at anyone you disagree with. So I'm done talking to you.
Weren't you being Mr. Macho man earlier saying people need to go outside and find a girl?
On April 04 2012 03:12 Leth0 wrote: If you are so hard up that you need porn at video game tournaments than you need to go outside and find a woman.
I'd say you're talking down to a few people.
Edit: Also done with this thread, it's been somewhat of a nightmare with the arguments going on.
How is that macho? I stand by that statement. That's not talking down to anyone, I didn't point someone out and say "you need to go find a woman" I said what I said and I meant it. If you are so hard up that porn sponsors for a video game tournament entices you than you probably should find a woman.
Like it should be known, a sponsor, will sponsor something, or someone in order to help promote their brand, license or w/e it is they do. It doesn't make sense for this scene.
On April 04 2012 01:35 Kralic wrote: Well Brazzers is known in the porn industry, in the end it is just a brand name though. If they want to throw money into esports to sponsor teams, why would it be a problem it is not like they are going to be having porn stars nude on stage acting out a scene or anything like that, they might have pornstars as booth babes at live events advertising their company, which is no different from any other company using booth babes as advertisement.
It's a little bit different from any other company using booth babes as advertisement.
If a porn company would start to advertise in E-Sports pretty much every other sponsor and investor would take their money and disappear from it. If you do not understand this simple truth you are living in a fantasy world with no correlation to the real one.
Personal opinion have no weight here, all big name sponsors we have today will be gone if porn companies get a foot hold in advertising in e-sports. Simple fact like it or not.
On April 04 2012 06:29 Leth0 wrote: Here's a question for all you champions that think a video game tournament is the perfect place for porn site to cross promote. What does it bring to the table?.....What audience is being drawn in due to the presence of brazzers?, Now compare that to what could be lost.
Answer that question and you will understand why this is a bad idea.
I don't think you understand the point of sponsors to professional sports or gaming. The sponsors job is to pay players and / or teams and help them excell. The players bring in viewers becuase people are there to watch a competition. These viewers then go out and buy the product that the sponsor advertises.
Sponsors are not supposed to draw in people. No one watches the Super Bowl because Coca Cola advertises during it. They watch it because of the teams competing. So yeah, a company can scare people away from an event. But it will not draw people into it.
If you spent half the time you do prosecuting people with sarky comments by reading your own posts then you could find very obvious answers for your questions. "What does it bring to the table?" Money.
You are already wrong. The sponsors job is to make an intelligent investment and get a RETURN on that investment..
Yeah that's actually exactly what he said. Sponsor supports player --> Player does well --> Player's viewers support sponsor. That sounds like an investment to me.
Players doing well is only a fraction of what gets a sponsor a return on that investment. Sponsors are not paying people to excell, they are paying them to help sell their license. HUGE difference.
Easy example, Idra has been playing like shit lately, but he helps promote his brand more so than someone like "socke" does by winning some small tournament
Both me and Jerglings have in our post outlined the exact process of how a sponsor makes money. I suggest you being a fucking douchebag and ignoring VERY CLEAR explanations and then follow up by trying to ridicule us by deconstructing and misquoting.
Either way I'm done arguing with you. Several times you have commented on my and others posts without fully reading them. Misquoting and taking stuff out of context. You have made some of the poorest arguments I've ever seen on TL and that says a lot.
My only regret is that I wasted close to 2 hours in this thread when all you do is attack people constantly. I really hope you find some other outlet of your need for personal vendettas so that you can stop plaguing people trying to have a serious discussion.
Have a nice evening.
I've misquoted nothing, read everything before responding, and articulated my points as well as I'm going to do. Meanwhile you're the one calling people "fucking douchebags" and talking down to us as if our opinions on the matter make us 'unworthy' of talking to you. It's laughable to think you are trying to have a 'serious' conversation after calling us all bigots and ignorants.
It's all to obvious that you are incapable of having a 'serious' conversation without getting so emotionally invested that in the end you just resort to petty insults and lashing out at anyone you disagree with. So I'm done talking to you.
Weren't you being Mr. Macho man earlier saying people need to go outside and find a girl?
On April 04 2012 03:12 Leth0 wrote: If you are so hard up that you need porn at video game tournaments than you need to go outside and find a woman.
I'd say you're talking down to a few people.
Edit: Also done with this thread, it's been somewhat of a nightmare with the arguments going on.
How is that macho? I stand by that statement. That's not talking down to anyone, I didn't point someone out and say "you need to go find a woman" I said what I said and I meant it. If you are so hard up that porn sponsors for a video game tournament entices you than you probably should find a woman.
Like it should be known, a sponsor, will sponsor something, or someone in order to help promote their brand, license or w/e it is they do. It doesn't make sense for this scene.
Your logic is painful.
The english word "You" can be used in general without referring to a specific person.
I don't think you understand the point of sponsors to professional sports or gaming. The sponsors job is to pay players and / or teams and help them excell. The players bring in viewers becuase people are there to watch a competition. These viewers then go out and buy the product that the sponsor advertises.
Sponsors are not supposed to draw in people. No one watches the Super Bowl because Coca Cola advertises during it. They watch it because of the teams competing. So yeah, a company can scare people away from an event. But it will not draw people into it.
If you spent half the time you do prosecuting people with sarky comments by reading your own posts then you could find very obvious answers for your questions. "What does it bring to the table?" Money.
You are already wrong. The sponsors job is to make an intelligent investment and get a RETURN on that investment..
Yeah that's actually exactly what he said. Sponsor supports player --> Player does well --> Player's viewers support sponsor. That sounds like an investment to me.
Players doing well is only a fraction of what gets a sponsor a return on that investment. Sponsors are not paying people to excell, they are paying them to help sell their license. HUGE difference.
Easy example, Idra has been playing like shit lately, but he helps promote his brand more so than someone like "socke" does by winning some small tournament
Both me and Jerglings have in our post outlined the exact process of how a sponsor makes money. I suggest you being a fucking douchebag and ignoring VERY CLEAR explanations and then follow up by trying to ridicule us by deconstructing and misquoting.
Either way I'm done arguing with you. Several times you have commented on my and others posts without fully reading them. Misquoting and taking stuff out of context. You have made some of the poorest arguments I've ever seen on TL and that says a lot.
My only regret is that I wasted close to 2 hours in this thread when all you do is attack people constantly. I really hope you find some other outlet of your need for personal vendettas so that you can stop plaguing people trying to have a serious discussion.
Have a nice evening.
I've misquoted nothing, read everything before responding, and articulated my points as well as I'm going to do. Meanwhile you're the one calling people "fucking douchebags" and talking down to us as if our opinions on the matter make us 'unworthy' of talking to you. It's laughable to think you are trying to have a 'serious' conversation after calling us all bigots and ignorants.
It's all to obvious that you are incapable of having a 'serious' conversation without getting so emotionally invested that in the end you just resort to petty insults and lashing out at anyone you disagree with. So I'm done talking to you.
Weren't you being Mr. Macho man earlier saying people need to go outside and find a girl?
On April 04 2012 03:12 Leth0 wrote: If you are so hard up that you need porn at video game tournaments than you need to go outside and find a woman.
I'd say you're talking down to a few people.
Edit: Also done with this thread, it's been somewhat of a nightmare with the arguments going on.
How is that macho? I stand by that statement. That's not talking down to anyone, I didn't point someone out and say "you need to go find a woman" I said what I said and I meant it. If you are so hard up that porn sponsors for a video game tournament entices you than you probably should find a woman.
Like it should be known, a sponsor, will sponsor something, or someone in order to help promote their brand, license or w/e it is they do. It doesn't make sense for this scene.
Your logic is painful.
The english word "You" can be used in general without referring to a specific person.
On April 04 2012 06:29 Leth0 wrote: Here's a question for all you champions that think a video game tournament is the perfect place for porn site to cross promote. What does it bring to the table?.....What audience is being drawn in due to the presence of brazzers?, Now compare that to what could be lost.
Answer that question and you will understand why this is a bad idea.
I don't think you understand the point of sponsors to professional sports or gaming. The sponsors job is to pay players and / or teams and help them excell. The players bring in viewers becuase people are there to watch a competition. These viewers then go out and buy the product that the sponsor advertises.
Sponsors are not supposed to draw in people. No one watches the Super Bowl because Coca Cola advertises during it. They watch it because of the teams competing. So yeah, a company can scare people away from an event. But it will not draw people into it.
If you spent half the time you do prosecuting people with sarky comments by reading your own posts then you could find very obvious answers for your questions. "What does it bring to the table?" Money.
You are already wrong. The sponsors job is to make an intelligent investment and get a RETURN on that investment..
Yeah that's actually exactly what he said. Sponsor supports player --> Player does well --> Player's viewers support sponsor. That sounds like an investment to me.
Players doing well is only a fraction of what gets a sponsor a return on that investment. Sponsors are not paying people to excell, they are paying them to help sell their license. HUGE difference.
Easy example, Idra has been playing like shit lately, but he helps promote his brand more so than someone like "socke" does by winning some small tournament
Regardless of y poor word choice in that example, you just supported what you think you're argui against. Not sure I you're aware. Unless you're argui for the same of arguing, then I humbly request you stop
why would this be an issue at all? Bigger teams won't accept brazzer as a sponsor and smaller teams that are broke will most likely accept anyone that has money. I also don't get it, if a player is named "BRAZZERS_handle" why can't a caster say he is from team "brazzer" like he does with every other team. What is different? Those who know about brazzers don't care and those who don't think it is a team like every other team. It is not like DJwheat has to say:"he is from team brazzers, yeah it's that site that offers the best porn, they have lots of anal and gangbang on their site, whenever i masturbate i fap to brazzers porn."
On April 04 2012 06:28 careohx wrote: So disgusted of hypocrisy. Whats the big deal with porn? Why is it dirty? We all watch that shit its natural. Better than have people go around raping each other.
Yea , so lets just put it everywhere right? How is it hypcritical to want it kept seperate from the streams i tune in to watch a video game tournament for?
And wtf does rape even have to do with anything? You are so off the wall with w/e point you are trying to make.
It's not like they're going to put actual porn up during tournaments...
It's just advertising...>_>
It's tasteless.
How is it tasteless?
If Brazzers wants to give money to an esports community, I say let them. Money is money.
And they will need to put up a ton of money because when they start to sponsor events, every other sponsor is going to drop their sponsorship
But why would they? I don't understand what's wrong with the vast majority of people that have a problem with this...
Associating your company with porn is a big no no. Do you really not know this?
Who's company? What companies are invested in the FGC?
And secondly, why?
The fact that people have an aversion to porn is so ridiculous considering how incredibly successful the industry is. Most likely being paid in part by the very people who talk it down.
It's not about what people think, it's actually about what's politically correct. And porn isn't politically correct, at least not for this scene. Do you actually think it would be beneficial in the grand scheme of things if major tournaments started being sponsored by porn sites?
On April 04 2012 06:28 careohx wrote: So disgusted of hypocrisy. Whats the big deal with porn? Why is it dirty? We all watch that shit its natural. Better than have people go around raping each other.
Yea , so lets just put it everywhere right? How is it hypcritical to want it kept seperate from the streams i tune in to watch a video game tournament for?
And wtf does rape even have to do with anything? You are so off the wall with w/e point you are trying to make.
It's not like they're going to put actual porn up during tournaments...
It's just advertising...>_>
It's tasteless.
How is it tasteless?
If Brazzers wants to give money to an esports community, I say let them. Money is money.
And they will need to put up a ton of money because when they start to sponsor events, every other sponsor is going to drop their sponsorship
But why would they? I don't understand what's wrong with the vast majority of people that have a problem with this...
Associating your company with porn is a big no no. Do you really not know this?
Who's company? What companies are invested in the FGC?
And secondly, why?
The fact that people have an aversion to porn is so ridiculous considering how incredibly successful the industry is. Most likely being paid in part by the very people who talk it down.
It's not about what people think, it's actually about what's politically correct. And porn isn't politically correct, at least not for this scene. Do you actually think it would be beneficial in the grand scheme of things if major tournaments started being sponsored by porn sites?
Actually that will NEVER happen, if porn gets in we will have NO major tournaments at all anymore so there's that.
On April 04 2012 06:28 careohx wrote: So disgusted of hypocrisy. Whats the big deal with porn? Why is it dirty? We all watch that shit its natural. Better than have people go around raping each other.
Yea , so lets just put it everywhere right? How is it hypcritical to want it kept seperate from the streams i tune in to watch a video game tournament for?
And wtf does rape even have to do with anything? You are so off the wall with w/e point you are trying to make.
It's not like they're going to put actual porn up during tournaments...
It's just advertising...>_>
It's tasteless.
How is it tasteless?
If Brazzers wants to give money to an esports community, I say let them. Money is money.
And they will need to put up a ton of money because when they start to sponsor events, every other sponsor is going to drop their sponsorship
But why would they? I don't understand what's wrong with the vast majority of people that have a problem with this...
Associating your company with porn is a big no no. Do you really not know this?
Who's company? What companies are invested in the FGC?
And secondly, why?
The fact that people have an aversion to porn is so ridiculous considering how incredibly successful the industry is. Most likely being paid in part by the very people who talk it down.
It's not about what people think, it's actually about what's politically correct. And porn isn't politically correct, at least not for this scene. Do you actually think it would be beneficial in the grand scheme of things if major tournaments started being sponsored by porn sites?
I don't think you understand what politically correct means...>_>
Yea , so lets just put it everywhere right? How is it hypcritical to want it kept seperate from the streams i tune in to watch a video game tournament for?
And wtf does rape even have to do with anything? You are so off the wall with w/e point you are trying to make.
It's not like they're going to put actual porn up during tournaments...
It's just advertising...>_>
It's tasteless.
How is it tasteless?
If Brazzers wants to give money to an esports community, I say let them. Money is money.
And they will need to put up a ton of money because when they start to sponsor events, every other sponsor is going to drop their sponsorship
But why would they? I don't understand what's wrong with the vast majority of people that have a problem with this...
Associating your company with porn is a big no no. Do you really not know this?
Who's company? What companies are invested in the FGC?
And secondly, why?
The fact that people have an aversion to porn is so ridiculous considering how incredibly successful the industry is. Most likely being paid in part by the very people who talk it down.
It's not about what people think, it's actually about what's politically correct. And porn isn't politically correct, at least not for this scene. Do you actually think it would be beneficial in the grand scheme of things if major tournaments started being sponsored by porn sites?
Actually that will NEVER happen, if porn gets in we will have NO major tournaments at all anymore so there's that.
That's exactly my point, too many sponsors would pull out for it to be beneficial at all.
On April 04 2012 02:16 chestnutcc wrote: Jokes aside, terrible idea, there are many underage pro gamers and spectators at sc2 events, and this would be really bad for publicity. Don't get me wrong, I like me some porn, but its just not appropriate to have them sponsoring an activity that is not age restricted for the most part, and that actively needs more participation.
Imagine DJWheat trying to explain that to miniwheat? Or Day[9] rationalizing this to his increasingly mainstream clientele?
Thank you Based Jaeger. This needs more attention lol. DJWheat is a guy I have immense respect for as a fighting game player (his crew covering devastation in 09 is basically what forced fighting game majors to start streaming), but it shows that an association with porn stars didn't ruin everything forever.
While from the thread it's pretty clear it'd be a bad match for starcraft, I think this is a good match for fighting games. We really don't have much to lose at this point, and Brazzers would be one of few sponsors that wouldn't be trying to tone down the FGC to a PG rating.
On April 04 2012 07:47 Fluffboll wrote:
Actually that will NEVER happen, if porn gets in we will have NO major tournaments at all anymore so there's that.
And that's why this is a better fit for fighters. Fighting games can have major tournaments even with no real sponsors at all, and they have for a long time.
All of you dramafags that got up in arms over SOPA are here saying porn sponsorship is unwelcome. Why?
You all had no problem with pokerstrategy sponsoring TSL.
You are the very retards which require acts like SOPA to keep you and your kids safe.
edit: I'll answer for you: Its because you think "esports" needs to conform to the same standard as televised sports. You are all so desperate to align yourselves and your interests to an already established medium you are incapable of questioning the boundaries. Sucks to be you.
On April 04 2012 02:16 chestnutcc wrote: Jokes aside, terrible idea, there are many underage pro gamers and spectators at sc2 events, and this would be really bad for publicity. Don't get me wrong, I like me some porn, but its just not appropriate to have them sponsoring an activity that is not age restricted for the most part, and that actively needs more participation.
Imagine DJWheat trying to explain that to miniwheat? Or Day[9] rationalizing this to his increasingly mainstream clientele?
Thank you Based Jaeger. This needs more attention lol. DJWheat is a guy I have immense respect for as a fighting game player (his crew covering devastation in 09 is basically what forced fighting game majors to start streaming), but it shows that an association with porn stars didn't ruin everything forever.
While from the thread it's pretty clear it'd be a bad match for starcraft, I think this is a good match for fighting games. We really don't have much to lose at this point, and Brazzers would be one of few sponsors that wouldn't be trying to tone down the FGC to a PG rating.
Actually that will NEVER happen, if porn gets in we will have NO major tournaments at all anymore so there's that.
And that's why this is a better fit for fighters. Fighting games can have major tournaments even with no real sponsors at all, and it has for a long time.
As E-sports is currently being lumped together no matter the genre of game being played it is NOT a good thing for Fighting games to get this. This is a PR nightmare for everyone involved, if a game no matter what game gets even moderately associated with porn, sponsors will have no choice but to pull back from all games just because the general public will not see a difference between an RTS and a Fighting Game.
On April 04 2012 05:45 Ansinjunger wrote: Porn is a walking death machine, it only ruins lives. I know from experience. It does not provide lasting happiness or fulfillment. It wastes money and shames individuals.
Keep it out of esports, out of everywhere. It's a symptom and a contributor to laziness and lack of self discipline. There is no good at all to come of it.
Breaking news: oral sex leads to increased risk of HPV.
Seriously though, no one in their right mind should want their spouse or bf/gf to watch porn. You should not be "enough," you should be their everything.
Terribly conservative and traditional these views may be, but I only intent to teach others to avoid the misery that always comes after. Porn is the worst drug.
You are a sensationalist and a drama queen.
All individuals are different. Maybe that's something you should learn through some more "experience."
All of you dramafags that got up in arms over SOPA are here saying porn sponsorship is unwelcome. Why?
You all had no problem with pokerstrategy sponsoring TSL.
You are the very retards which require acts like SOPA to keep you and your kids safe.
edit: I'll answer for you: Its because you think "esports" needs to conform to the same standard as televised sports. You are all so desperate to align yourselves and your interests to an already established medium you are incapable of questioning the boundaries. Sucks to be you.
You have no clue how the real world works, please stop posting and save yourself the embarrassment.
I don't think a lot of companies would pull sponsorship. I don't think associate sponsorship of events with Brazzers is enough to cause public outrage.
On April 04 2012 06:28 careohx wrote: So disgusted of hypocrisy. Whats the big deal with porn? Why is it dirty? We all watch that shit its natural. Better than have people go around raping each other.
Yea , so lets just put it everywhere right? How is it hypcritical to want it kept seperate from the streams i tune in to watch a video game tournament for?
And wtf does rape even have to do with anything? You are so off the wall with w/e point you are trying to make.
It's not like they're going to put actual porn up during tournaments...
It's just advertising...>_>
It's tasteless.
How is it tasteless?
If Brazzers wants to give money to an esports community, I say let them. Money is money.
And they will need to put up a ton of money because when they start to sponsor events, every other sponsor is going to drop their sponsorship
But why would they? I don't understand what's wrong with the vast majority of people that have a problem with this...
Associating your company with porn is a big no no. Do you really not know this?
Who's company? What companies are invested in the FGC?
And secondly, why?
The fact that people have an aversion to porn is so ridiculous considering how incredibly successful the industry is. Most likely being paid in part by the very people who talk it down.
What companies are invested in the FGC? Ummm MLG and all their sponsors, Capcom, Complexity and all their sponsors, EG and all their sponsors and so on. Did you really need to ask that question?
And why? Because its bad PR. associating your company with porn leads to bad things. There is a reason you don't see porn sponsoring any other big events outside of gaming. I have no problem with porn, but they have their own industry that is completely separate from anything else and its that way for a reason.
On April 04 2012 07:59 joshrogan wrote: I don't think a lot of companies would pull sponsorship. I don't think associate sponsorship of events with Brazzers is enough to cause public outrage.
In the real world Starcraft is for nerds and is not ever going to be mainstream. Dispute that.
All of you dramafags that got up in arms over SOPA are here saying porn sponsorship is unwelcome. Why?
You all had no problem with pokerstrategy sponsoring TSL.
You are the very retards which require acts like SOPA to keep you and your kids safe.
edit: I'll answer for you: Its because you think "esports" needs to conform to the same standard as televised sports. You are all so desperate to align yourselves and your interests to an already established medium you are incapable of questioning the boundaries. Sucks to be you.
From what I can tell, beyond one guy claiming it ruined his life, and another guy saying people need to find girlfriends instead of porn, there are very few people here who are personally opposed to porn sponsoring tournaments. They're talking from other sponsor's perspectives. While it maybe an issue for other sponsors, it's not really up to us to decide.
The best bet is for them to get into contact with the fighting games sponsors and talk it over with them. Find a way to decide on some mutual ground. From my personal perspective, I don't see a single issue with porn sponsoring stuff. This is the perfect demographic(generally 15+), which makes it ideal. If SOTG wants to encourage underage drinking, and their sponsors don't care, I don't see a single reason why porn is different.
On April 04 2012 02:16 chestnutcc wrote: Jokes aside, terrible idea, there are many underage pro gamers and spectators at sc2 events, and this would be really bad for publicity. Don't get me wrong, I like me some porn, but its just not appropriate to have them sponsoring an activity that is not age restricted for the most part, and that actively needs more participation.
Imagine DJWheat trying to explain that to miniwheat? Or Day[9] rationalizing this to his increasingly mainstream clientele?
Thank you Based Jaeger. This needs more attention lol. DJWheat is a guy I have immense respect for as a fighting game player (his crew covering devastation in 09 is basically what forced fighting game majors to start streaming), but it shows that an association with porn stars didn't ruin everything forever.
While from the thread it's pretty clear it'd be a bad match for starcraft, I think this is a good match for fighting games. We really don't have much to lose at this point, and Brazzers would be one of few sponsors that wouldn't be trying to tone down the FGC to a PG rating.
On April 04 2012 07:47 Fluffboll wrote:
Actually that will NEVER happen, if porn gets in we will have NO major tournaments at all anymore so there's that.
And that's why this is a better fit for fighters. Fighting games can have major tournaments even with no real sponsors at all, and it has for a long time.
As E-sports is currently being lumped together no matter the genre of game being played it is NOT a good thing for Fighting games to get this. This is a PR nightmare for everyone involved, if a game no matter what game gets even moderately associated with porn, sponsors will have no choice but to pull back from all games just because the general public will not see a difference between an RTS and a Fighting Game.
I have to disagree with you on this. This didn't destroy everything, so I doubt LI Joe getting a few plane tickets paid for will either. There was just linked a Halo 3 video with porn stars stripping playing with DJWheat, and there have been a few starcraft 2 even streamers with porn stars on.
Another thing to note is that LI Joe isn't some troll who'll bring the world crashing down around him. He's an incredibly personable guy who's been involved in the tournament scene for years and will be making sure he doesn't harm it.
just commenting on the mlg bit: mlg has a section of their player agreement that they have the right to force you to change shirts (eg the reason why early on in mlg they made so many people change into shirts that read MLG on them [they made them change]). MLG would have a pretty easy time "dealing" with it if they decided to disallow it.
On April 04 2012 07:59 joshrogan wrote: I don't think a lot of companies would pull sponsorship. I don't think associate sponsorship of events with Brazzers is enough to cause public outrage.
In the real world Starcraft is for nerds and is not ever going to be mainstream. Dispute that.
Hmmm ok, World of Warcraft.
Before the advent of WoW MMO's were the realm of super nerd shut-ins (referring to public opinion) and would never be considered mainstream. Now MMO's are regularly played by all sorts of people and in fact have an active esports side to them (which I consider hilarious) to such an extent that many are being designed around the concept of competitive PvP.
From a marketing perspective, porn is considered a dead end..a path choosen by those who have failed to gain money and success in other ways due to lack of competitiveness and talent.
Nothing against porn and im not a moralist, but Esports really needs the money from porn? I think it's a double-edged sword.
I don't know what the big deal is. I mean if a company shows up to a scene that they've never been to before and want to support the community, I can't see how any other sponsors who have the same ambitions of helping the scene grow would want to pull all the work they've done over the years just because a malicious sponsor enters their fold. It seems to me like their afraid of competition.
On April 04 2012 08:53 zZygote wrote: I don't know what the big deal is. I mean if a company shows up to a scene that they've never been to before and want to support the community, I can't see how any other sponsors who have the same ambitions of helping the scene grow would want to pull all the work they've done over the years just because a malicious sponsor enters their fold. It seems to me like their afraid of competition.
If you think sponsors just want to help people you know very little about marketing. Whenever I watch something EG related I automatically think of Kingston/Steel Series/Monster. It's called advertising... They sponsor to advertise...
Sure some people may genuinely care and the money return/exposure isn't a big deal, but it's always a part of the deal.
To be fair, we dont know exactly what Brazzers are doing, (I didnt watch the stream) so we will see, but the idea of a porn site being a sponsor is a terrible idea. (like a normal sponsor)
On April 04 2012 01:22 solidbebe wrote: There are alot of people <18 watching SC2 events/streams. Something would need to be done against this for any tournament to keep legally streaming.
Well there's plenty of advertising of beer and stuff on tv, at any time of the day.
This, not to mention all the violence-glorifying. The idea that a porn ad would be immoral to play during a match of Call of Duty seems very illogical to me.
Yes, kids play Call of Duty (but they probably shouldn't), but if you're willing to expose your kids to that kind of violence, then what the hell do you care about some hussie shaking her thing. Our kids are playing games based around shooting people in the head... and we're going to complain about the sensitivity of our advertisements?
And marketing is just pure trash. How about those constant beer commercials, with those bars perfectly filled with model 20-somethings, with beautiful women who are only interested in the guy who orders Bud Light? Compared to that crap, I'd find a Brazzers ad refreshingly honest.
EDIT: Totally forgot that TL itself is supported by gambling sites...... Yeah..... Gambling is so much more moral than porn.
On April 04 2012 08:53 zZygote wrote: I don't know what the big deal is. I mean if a company shows up to a scene that they've never been to before and want to support the community, I can't see how any other sponsors who have the same ambitions of helping the scene grow would want to pull all the work they've done over the years just because a malicious sponsor enters their fold. It seems to me like their afraid of competition.
If you think sponsors just want to help people you know very little about marketing. Whenever I watch something EG related I automatically think of Kingston/Steel Series/Monster. It's called advertising... They sponsor to advertise...
Sure some people may genuinely care and the money return/exposure isn't a big deal, but it's always a part of the deal.
Agreed. Even the site we're on right now is sponsored by industries like Razer. Heck that's why TL players all use the razer keyboard, mouse, and mousepad while gaming. Not many companies are going to sponsor e-sports for no profit. This being said, some sponsors may withdraw if something controversial such as Brazzers entering causes issues. This topic alone is proof that it is already pretty controversial between the consumers themselves.
People keep talking about these "issues" but the video that was on the OP that was said by Rob Steele seems truthful and convincing. Their a company just like every other sponsor out there, why would they do anything to hurt their image?
That being said, I believe he isn't bringing in ads of porn stars, or what not he'll obviously find some way to market his website, if that means creating a logo or tag for his team. Question is, if he does this what exactly is he doing that's making the community so upset and other sponsors wanting to pull their support/sponsorships? Is the idea of having a porn industry giant that immoral in still a fairly underground community such as ours?
I believe any company that wishes to support the Esports community should be able to do so. If gambling sites are able to sponsor tournaments for Teamliquid, should a tobacco company like Marlboro be unable to do the same? If the main argument of the white-knighters here are because of morality issues they should quickly look at themselves because their being hypocrites.
On April 04 2012 09:06 goswser wrote: Destiny : @iamrobsteele dude I love fappin' it to porn, let me know if you need someone in SC2 to throw money at. <3
On April 04 2012 08:53 zZygote wrote: I don't know what the big deal is. I mean if a company shows up to a scene that they've never been to before and want to support the community, I can't see how any other sponsors who have the same ambitions of helping the scene grow would want to pull all the work they've done over the years just because a malicious sponsor enters their fold. It seems to me like their afraid of competition.
If you think sponsors just want to help people you know very little about marketing. Whenever I watch something EG related I automatically think of Kingston/Steel Series/Monster. It's called advertising... They sponsor to advertise...
Sure some people may genuinely care and the money return/exposure isn't a big deal, but it's always a part of the deal.
Agreed. Even the site we're on right now is sponsored by industries like Razer. Heck that's why TL players all use the razer keyboard, mouse, and mousepad while gaming. Not many companies are going to sponsor e-sports for no profit. This being said, some sponsors may withdraw if something controversial such as Brazzers entering causes issues. This topic alone is proof that it is already pretty controversial between the consumers themselves.
incorrect. the team is sponsored by razer. the website is an independent thing
On April 04 2012 07:59 joshrogan wrote: I don't think a lot of companies would pull sponsorship. I don't think associate sponsorship of events with Brazzers is enough to cause public outrage.
In the real world Starcraft is for nerds and is not ever going to be mainstream. Dispute that.
Hmmm ok, World of Warcraft.
Before the advent of WoW MMO's were the realm of super nerd shut-ins (referring to public opinion) and would never be considered mainstream. Now MMO's are regularly played by all sorts of people and in fact have an active esports side to them (which I consider hilarious) to such an extent that many are being designed around the concept of competitive PvP.
So much wrong.
1. WoW players are not mainstream, shining an internet spotlight on nerds doesn't make it mainstream, stop that. 2. Active WoW esports? It's not 2009 anymore, stop that. 3. Games being designed around the concept of PvP that are MMORPG's. Name 1 I dare you. Stop that.
ESPORTS and porn are both niche, one becoming mainstream over the other is hypocrisy.
EDIT: I would also like some sort of confirmation on the sponsorship being dependent on the other sponsors. From what I've heard (albeit indirectly) sponsors are independent unless they conflict on products (SteelSeries vs Razer, Beverage Gaming LAN, etc.).
On April 04 2012 08:53 zZygote wrote: I don't know what the big deal is. I mean if a company shows up to a scene that they've never been to before and want to support the community, I can't see how any other sponsors who have the same ambitions of helping the scene grow would want to pull all the work they've done over the years just because a malicious sponsor enters their fold. It seems to me like their afraid of competition.
If you think sponsors just want to help people you know very little about marketing. Whenever I watch something EG related I automatically think of Kingston/Steel Series/Monster. It's called advertising... They sponsor to advertise...
Sure some people may genuinely care and the money return/exposure isn't a big deal, but it's always a part of the deal.
Agreed. Even the site we're on right now is sponsored by industries like Razer. Heck that's why TL players all use the razer keyboard, mouse, and mousepad while gaming. Not many companies are going to sponsor e-sports for no profit. This being said, some sponsors may withdraw if something controversial such as Brazzers entering causes issues. This topic alone is proof that it is already pretty controversial between the consumers themselves.
Has anyone actually said they disagree with Brazzers sponsorships? Most seem concerned on how it will be perceived by "the masses" and by other sponsors. If this thread is a sample size, those against the porn sponsors are a minority that shouldn't be catered to.
StripCraft, a metamorphosis of BarCraft would surely be worthy of beer and porn sponsorship. Let's all pretend BarCraft is fun for the whole family, or are some of us acting a little overly sensitive?
If Brazzers where to sponsor sc2 that would be bad there is no doubt in that.
But they arent.... brazzers is only looking at the FGC (wich is quite different from the sc2 scene) and well... for the FGC its an amazing thing. why? simple, the FGC doesnt have the kind of sponsors the sc2 scene haves (big companies like intel razer and such) so even if some of their sponsors where to withdraw the money of such massive sponsors (wich eclipse even sc2´s sponsors) would be great for the FGC.
TL;DR : Brazzers sponsoring the FGC = good. Brazzers sponsoring the Sc2 scene = Bad. luckily only the first is a reality while the second is just a far fetched possibility
We need incontrol to tell us his opinnion, he's been on the porn business, or at least one of his pic was! Ok.. jokes aside... (yeah, pretty bad joke @-@...) I dont see porn industry messing with e-sports, the same way they wouldn't be on regular sports.
There´s a reason porn companies don´t sponsor big leagues. The other companies don´t want to be associated with a porn site.
Also any team sponsored by it would be insta banned from GSL(Porn is illegal in Korea I think). And god forbid, we get a good bug sponsor like in BW(Corporations like Samsung, freaking banks etc...) as I said they will probably would not want to be put in the same level as a freaking porn site,
Anyone thinking this would be good needs to think again.
On April 04 2012 08:53 zZygote wrote: I don't know what the big deal is. I mean if a company shows up to a scene that they've never been to before and want to support the community, I can't see how any other sponsors who have the same ambitions of helping the scene grow would want to pull all the work they've done over the years just because a malicious sponsor enters their fold. It seems to me like their afraid of competition.
If you think sponsors just want to help people you know very little about marketing. Whenever I watch something EG related I automatically think of Kingston/Steel Series/Monster. It's called advertising... They sponsor to advertise...
Sure some people may genuinely care and the money return/exposure isn't a big deal, but it's always a part of the deal.
Exactly. This x1000. EG is the best team when it comes to promoting their sponsor. They do so much with their sponsors, advertising them in so many different ways and everyone who watches interviews can recite the order in which all the EG players thank their sponsors "id like to thank intel, steelseries, monster energy, kingston hyperx". But none of these big sponsors want the EG players to say "id like to thank intel, steelseries, BRAZZERS, monster energy". That would sound so bad
On April 04 2012 06:58 Treva wrote: People seem to be ignoring how people outside of our little esports bubble would see this. Whether or not your moral compass would accept this isn't the issue, it's the issue of people on the outside. No one should care about if we accept it or not because most of us would still watch WhiteRa play even if he was sponsored by an abortion clinic.
However, the problem with this comes up when you want other companies to sponsor teams and even if you think it's stupid it's not going to change the fact that companies will probably see it as more of a loss than a gain if they sponsor a team with a porn industry label next to theirs. You can call it bad business or stupid or whatever the hell you want but at the end of the day it IS business and I can guarantee the businesses with money are the businesses with a PR division and almost all, if not all, of them will not be too thrilled to slap their logo/brand/name on a product or website next to a porn company's logo.
It's easier for little Billy to explain to his parents who the companies are and what services/products they provide that have banners and tents at MLG when they aren't porn companies. Imagine an MLG with a Brazzers booth giving out free trial memberships and condoms. People can say "LOL THAT'S SO FUNNY" all they want but the people who have money, reputations and stock holders won't be there yucking it up and giving high fives with you.
A fairly thoughtful post ruined by the hatred of women evidenced by the slur "abortion clinic".
What you mean is a reproductive health establishment like Planned Parenthood? If White-Ra was sponsored by PP he would not only get money but also gain significant audience just be being supported by a truly great establishment like PP.
Ofcourse PP gains nothing from the sponsorship since the demographics don't match. Brazzers might profit because I imagine the demographics are spot on.
But porn is no worse than a tobacco company or an alcohol company sponsoring an event. I regularly watch F1 which is sponsored by tobacco companies. I don't sit and think "oh shit man, Scuderia Marlboro Ferrari is getting millions from Marlboro - I should stop supporting them". I watched the Johnny Walker PGA tour and I didn't think "alcoholism ruins life, and look how many car accidents because of the alcohol". Sponsors don't define the event, the event actually defines the sponsors. It might be bad for a nascent industry like e-sport, but realistically a sponsorship from brazzers is no worse than a sponsorship from Marlboro or Johnny Walker for an established sport.
Also I think Brazzers needs more brand recognition in the target demo. I had to google them.
You're completely right, my example was pretty distasteful. I didn't actually intend to bring up PP and that kind of business my point was being that you could have any sponsor for popular players and people would still watch them. Apologies.
if we want a bigger audience than what we already have now, then obviously we cant do this. however, if we dont want to lean towards mainstream, why the hell not?
People in favour:¨Dude, money is money, and I totally watch porn its cool. And besides we are indie yo.¨ People againt: ¨Dude this can scare future sponsors(and thus future money). If we want SC2 to grow to bigger audiences we have to be careful about our image¨
Really guys, I don´t think many people are against porn. Most of the people against are more concerned about the image that we want to project towards the mainstream.
I don´t know why people have such a hard time understanding that we live in a society and that the image that you project actually matters a lot. This is not a cartoon where people will see how great of a person you are eventually and will love you. 1st impressions matter a lot.
On another note, I was talking about this with a friend who has 2 kids, one 8 and one 9 years old. Dude is not some kind of religious nutjob, nor does he thinks that sex is something that someone should be ashamed of. He saw this and was worried a lot about this. Kids are curious creatures and they do look up stuff they see on the internet. Its a real concern and its not only ultra conservative nutjobs who may be turned off by this.And before someone tries to comment on the hypocrisy of watching highly cartoonish and stylized violence vs his kid being potentially being exposed to porn realize that its completely different.
On April 04 2012 08:53 zZygote wrote: I don't know what the big deal is. I mean if a company shows up to a scene that they've never been to before and want to support the community, I can't see how any other sponsors who have the same ambitions of helping the scene grow would want to pull all the work they've done over the years just because a malicious sponsor enters their fold. It seems to me like their afraid of competition.
If you think sponsors just want to help people you know very little about marketing. Whenever I watch something EG related I automatically think of Kingston/Steel Series/Monster. It's called advertising... They sponsor to advertise...
Sure some people may genuinely care and the money return/exposure isn't a big deal, but it's always a part of the deal.
Agreed. Even the site we're on right now is sponsored by industries like Razer. Heck that's why TL players all use the razer keyboard, mouse, and mousepad while gaming. Not many companies are going to sponsor e-sports for no profit. This being said, some sponsors may withdraw if something controversial such as Brazzers entering causes issues. This topic alone is proof that it is already pretty controversial between the consumers themselves.
incorrect. the team is sponsored by razer. the website is an independent thing
You know what I mean -_- Team Liquid owns the site whom are sponsored by Razer. Just a poor choice of words on my part.
DO PEOPLE SERIOUSLY NOT SEE THE ISSUE HERE??? I apologize for the all caps to start out, but this is absolutely 100% not okay! I hate 'Killing ESPORTS" threads, but this is a real issue. Their is no way anyone should accept a sponsorship from porn!!! Dr Pepper, Razer and others don't want their logo next to BRAZZERS! Nor should you want it on your game!
On April 04 2012 08:53 zZygote wrote: I don't know what the big deal is. I mean if a company shows up to a scene that they've never been to before and want to support the community, I can't see how any other sponsors who have the same ambitions of helping the scene grow would want to pull all the work they've done over the years just because a malicious sponsor enters their fold. It seems to me like their afraid of competition.
If you think sponsors just want to help people you know very little about marketing. Whenever I watch something EG related I automatically think of Kingston/Steel Series/Monster. It's called advertising... They sponsor to advertise...
Sure some people may genuinely care and the money return/exposure isn't a big deal, but it's always a part of the deal.
Agreed. Even the site we're on right now is sponsored by industries like Razer. Heck that's why TL players all use the razer keyboard, mouse, and mousepad while gaming. Not many companies are going to sponsor e-sports for no profit. This being said, some sponsors may withdraw if something controversial such as Brazzers entering causes issues. This topic alone is proof that it is already pretty controversial between the consumers themselves.
incorrect. the team is sponsored by razer. the website is an independent thing
You know what I mean -_- Team Liquid owns the site whom are sponsored by Razer. Just a poor choice of words on my part.
its not the same thing at all. teamliquid the community site and teamliquid the progaming team are two different things
DO PEOPLE SERIOUSLY NOT SEE THE ISSUE HERE??? I apologize for the all caps to start out, but this is absolutely 100% not okay! I hate 'Killing ESPORTS" threads, but this is a real issue. Their is no way anyone should accept a sponsorship from porn!!! Dr Pepper, Razer and others don't want their logo next to BRAZZERS! Nor should you want it on your game!
I really hope this is a troll, or you need to rethink how you see the porn industry. It's not some dirty backstreet business. It's a huge industry and brazzers is one of it's most popular sites. I see you hate porn for some reason, but I promise it's not the devil. Otherwise 6/10.
On April 04 2012 07:49 Kuni wrote: Pretty nice tho, if you think about it. One little logo changes everything:
*shakes head* Now replace a word as innocuous as brazzer with bangbros and tell us again how nice it is...
On April 04 2012 10:41 Panzamelano wrote: If Brazzers where to sponsor sc2 that would be bad there is no doubt in that.
But they arent.... brazzers is only looking at the FGC (wich is quite different from the sc2 scene) and well... for the FGC its an amazing thing. why? simple, the FGC doesnt have the kind of sponsors the sc2 scene haves (big companies like intel razer and such) so even if some of their sponsors where to withdraw the money of such massive sponsors (wich eclipse even sc2´s sponsors) would be great for the FGC.
TL;DR : Brazzers sponsoring the FGC = good. Brazzers sponsoring the Sc2 scene = Bad. luckily only the first is a reality while the second is just a far fetched possibility
Having porn companies as sponsors is most likely too limiting. Porn is mainstream due to how far it reaches and just how much money goes into it and is generated is as an industry; but porn is based on business that people prefer to keep private and personal.Putting porn out there in the public space isn't feasible because it is counterproductive in many ways.
Certain types of porn are popular because they are taboo and are thus edgey and alluring. Gaining public social acceptance completely waters down the tone and appeal of this type of porn.
Other types get by by serving the lowest common denominator. Putting porn in the public space increases the risk of exposing children to the wrong impression about how sex should be treated before they can properly develop their understanding of adult relationships.
Porn tastes can be very specific and polarizing. Fetishes you like would make others extremely uncomfortable. Even fetishes you share with others can still make them uncomfortable because being aroused in a crowd of strangers is an unwanted feeling and should be respected. Porn in a public is just going to either anger people or make them avoid that part of the public space completely even if it is their type of porn.
Porn companies becoming public sponsors in the FGC is too much of risk and IMO should be shunned.
On April 04 2012 05:07 isleyofthenorth wrote: Really how is this more frowned upon than ads for liquor...(not that there were any in esports)
The korean brood war team CJ Entus was sponsored by a korean bear company called Hite, and they even renamed their team to Hite Entus, atleast for a while.
Technically the Hite sponsorship came from OGN Sparkyz when they had to merge with Entus because their team was crippled by the Match fixing scandal. I think they had some time leftover in the contract lthat CJ had to uphold.
But there was some criticism when OGN announced the Hite sponsorship. Nothing was ever done about it though.
On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote: When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects.
That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period).
Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it.
So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool"
But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is.
Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in.
What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with.
I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host.
The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose.
It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages.
You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason.
OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?"
Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals.
I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies.
As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me.
Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement.
You're arguing from the false assumption that that you represent the majority viewpoint, and the only opposition to this is an outspoken, bigoted minority.
I want to say first that I agree with you, it really shouldn't matter what kind of business sponsors something, as long as it's legal, people should get over it.
However, you have to understand that your viewpoint is extremely narrow. Ok, maybe this is fine in Europe. Do you know what percentage of the world's population lives in Europe? It's only 11%. So, even if every single person in Europe agreed with you (they don't by the way), you would have a small impact on the overall perception of this issue. We want ESPORTS to be global, do you have any idea how poorly something like this would go over in India? It's easy to dismiss cultural differences between the US and Europe as just backwardness and bigotry, but do you really want to go after 90% of the world's population with that argument?
Also, you're arguing that the only possible reason for people to be against this is some sort of prejudice. This is also blatantly false. I know several forward thinking women who identify themselves as feminists who would be extremely against a Brazzer's sponsorship for ESPORTS. They're not against porn in and of itself, but feel that society's growing acceptance of hypersexualized and often derogatory images of women can only lead to problems. Keep in mind these are very reasonable people, not the militant "all men are evil rapist" feminists I'm sure a lot of you are picturing. This issue would clearly fit into that category, since there's no real link between video games and sex, other than both sell quite well. So, are these women bigoted? Can you dismiss their argument out of hand because you're from Europe and thus represent the enlightened, majority viewpoint?
I don't think I've ever stated that I held a majority viewpoint. Quite on the contrary I have said several times that I'm in the minority and that's why I made my joke about the spaceship etc. I do however claim to be right. I do this based on the arguments I put forth. You are one of the few people that has actually contested them with a real meaningful argument not based on "the world is fucked now live with it".
The feminism perspective is something I have respect for. I agree that women are depicted very unrealistically in mainstream porn. I do not however agree that said porn should be shunned and destroyed because of this. People need to be able to take responsibility for their own actions. Being an adult and not understanding that Brazzers type porn does not reflect reality is a personal problem. It's not Brazzers responsibility to inform people that what they're watching is a fictional fantasy world. People should be intelligent enough to understand that at an adult age.
When we come to teens that question becomes more of a gray area. But as I said earlier I think that's why we need sex ed and paren't need to speak to their kids about the fact that this porn is not real.
This is a fairly accurate summation. No one feels the need to tell people that fairy tales aren't real, yet adults cannot understand that the scenes depicted in a porn video are intended to be fake and movie-esque?
Why do Brazzers need to sponsor esports? If you are a gamer and you dont know Brazzers, there are something wrong with you. Even my gf barely play games know what Brazzers mean.
On April 04 2012 06:29 Leth0 wrote: Here's a question for all you champions that think a video game tournament is the perfect place for porn site to cross promote. What does it bring to the table?.....What audience is being drawn in due to the presence of brazzers?, Now compare that to what could be lost.
Answer that question and you will understand why this is a bad idea.
I don't think you understand the point of sponsors to professional sports or gaming. The sponsors job is to pay players and / or teams and help them excell. The players bring in viewers becuase people are there to watch a competition. These viewers then go out and buy the product that the sponsor advertises.
Sponsors are not supposed to draw in people. No one watches the Super Bowl because Coca Cola advertises during it. They watch it because of the teams competing. So yeah, a company can scare people away from an event. But it will not draw people into it.
If you spent half the time you do prosecuting people with sarky comments by reading your own posts then you could find very obvious answers for your questions. "What does it bring to the table?" Money.
You are already wrong. The sponsors job is to make an intelligent investment and get a RETURN on that investment..
Yeah that's actually exactly what he said. Sponsor supports player --> Player does well --> Player's viewers support sponsor. That sounds like an investment to me.
Players doing well is only a fraction of what gets a sponsor a return on that investment. Sponsors are not paying people to excell, they are paying them to help sell their license. HUGE difference.
Easy example, Idra has been playing like shit lately, but he helps promote his brand more so than someone like "socke" does by winning some small tournament
Both me and Jerglings have in our post outlined the exact process of how a sponsor makes money. I suggest you being a fucking douchebag and ignoring VERY CLEAR explanations and then follow up by trying to ridicule us by deconstructing and misquoting.
Either way I'm done arguing with you. Several times you have commented on my and others posts without fully reading them. Misquoting and taking stuff out of context. You have made some of the poorest arguments I've ever seen on TL and that says a lot.
My only regret is that I wasted close to 2 hours in this thread when all you do is attack people constantly. I really hope you find some other outlet of your need for personal vendettas so that you can stop plaguing people trying to have a serious discussion.
Have a nice evening.
I've misquoted nothing, read everything before responding, and articulated my points as well as I'm going to do. Meanwhile you're the one calling people "fucking douchebags" and talking down to us as if our opinions on the matter make us 'unworthy' of talking to you. It's laughable to think you are trying to have a 'serious' conversation after calling us all bigots and ignorants.
It's all to obvious that you are incapable of having a 'serious' conversation without getting so emotionally invested that in the end you just resort to petty insults and lashing out at anyone you disagree with. So I'm done talking to you.
Weren't you being Mr. Macho man earlier saying people need to go outside and find a girl?
On April 04 2012 03:12 Leth0 wrote: If you are so hard up that you need porn at video game tournaments than you need to go outside and find a woman.
I'd say you're talking down to a few people.
Edit: Also done with this thread, it's been somewhat of a nightmare with the arguments going on.
How is that macho? I stand by that statement. That's not talking down to anyone, I didn't point someone out and say "you need to go find a woman" I said what I said and I meant it. If you are so hard up that porn sponsors for a video game tournament entices you than you probably should find a woman.
Like it should be known, a sponsor, will sponsor something, or someone in order to help promote their brand, license or w/e it is they do. It doesn't make sense for this scene.
Do you honestly think that telling someone how they should live their life based on how "hard up" they are isn't talking down to someone?
Porn is degrading and disgusting. Porn is however...a multibillon dollar industry (E-Sports isn't anywhere close) & brazzers is one of it's top franchises.
Children watch G4 (A Gaming Network) & porn/somewhat raunchy commericals are advertised on that station and I haven't really heard of anybody complaining about it too much (I just ignore the commericals). I think it's good for e-sports while in general being a very bad thing.
The good thing is the revenue for the advertisment. The bad thing is the message the advertisment is putting out there, such as cigarettes or beer but realistically porn doesn't hurt anybody (no pun intended) for just looking at it whereas the effects of smoking a cigarette or drinking beer could cause. I mean you guys "promote" Barcrafts which encourages people to drink (somebody has to drive home too) because I don't know anybody who goes to a bar just to go lol.
I would say that it's fine unless the commercials were too graphic.
On April 04 2012 14:44 Proko wrote: I would quit following foreign tournaments really quick if something like this happened.
That's what you say now until it comes time for your favorite player to play in one of those "foreign" tournaments. I'd bet you'd watch it regardless of the advertisements.
On April 04 2012 11:22 windsupernova wrote: So basically it sums up to this?
People in favour:¨Dude, money is money, and I totally watch porn its cool. And besides we are indie yo.¨ People againt: ¨Dude this can scare future sponsors(and thus future money). If we want SC2 to grow to bigger audiences we have to be careful about our image¨
Really guys, I don´t think many people are against porn. Most of the people against are more concerned about the image that we want to project towards the mainstream.
I don´t know why people have such a hard time understanding that we live in a society and that the image that you project actually matters a lot. This is not a cartoon where people will see how great of a person you are eventually and will love you. 1st impressions matter a lot.
On another note, I was talking about this with a friend who has 2 kids, one 8 and one 9 years old. Dude is not some kind of religious nutjob, nor does he thinks that sex is something that someone should be ashamed of. He saw this and was worried a lot about this. Kids are curious creatures and they do look up stuff they see on the internet. Its a real concern and its not only ultra conservative nutjobs who may be turned off by this.And before someone tries to comment on the hypocrisy of watching highly cartoonish and stylized violence vs his kid being potentially being exposed to porn realize that its completely different.
The SC2 community might be different in this regard, but the FGC does not spend much time, if any, browsing sponsors' websites, because they simply do not have any products to push. Whether it is DMG, FingerCramp, EG, Complexity, Broken Tier, vVv, Marn, eLive; the only exceptions being Madcatz and Razer (who sponsors one player). We know their respective players already and know they most often have their flights and expenses paid when attending tournaments, but it ends there. Players are not required to hop on stream and rave about their sponsors' good deeds, nor are the streams plagued with said sponsors ads. So from this optic, having LI Joe have "BRZ" before his ID, changes absolutely nothing. EG doesn't lose face because another player in the community is sponsored by an entity they do not wish to associate themselves with. This is not meant to initiate the community to porn (the internet alone is doing a great job in that regard), so aside from a few select players being taken care of (and not in the way people might be inclined to think), I don't see how this is changing much.
When it comes to Brazzers sponsored tournaments, I can see how that could cause an issue, but none of that is set in stone, and Capcom will most likely object to it anyways. I think people are just overreacting.
On April 04 2012 13:45 Prime`Rib wrote: Why do Brazzers need to sponsor esports? If you are a gamer and you dont know Brazzers, there are something wrong with you. Even my gf barely play games know what Brazzers mean.
That proves nothing...what does Brazzers have to do with gaming anyway...
News flash, more people watch porn than basement dwelling nergins.
On April 04 2012 14:44 Proko wrote: I would quit following foreign tournaments really quick if something like this happened.
That's what you say now until it comes time for your favorite player to play in one of those "foreign" tournaments. I'd bet you'd watch it regardless of the advertisements.
Don't be such a drama queen...
Porn is degrading and victimizes women, this is not something I'm willing to compromise on. You might assume I'm the only one, who feels this way but you're wrong.
On April 04 2012 15:22 broz0rs wrote: I haven't heard about Brazzers until this sponsorship. I have heard of Bangbus so i'm not completely out of the loop or deny that I watch porn.
Oh man, I did not know chicks could spray like that.
On April 04 2012 14:44 Proko wrote: I would quit following foreign tournaments really quick if something like this happened.
That's what you say now until it comes time for your favorite player to play in one of those "foreign" tournaments. I'd bet you'd watch it regardless of the advertisements.
Don't be such a drama queen...
Porn is degrading and victimizes women, this is not something I'm willing to compromise on. You might assume I'm the only one, who feels this way but you're wrong.
I am more offended that you consider it a problem that women have the choice to be adult actresses if they want to. It's not like they're being forced into it. If you don't like it, don't watch, but there's nothing wrong with it.
On April 04 2012 14:44 Proko wrote: I would quit following foreign tournaments really quick if something like this happened.
That's what you say now until it comes time for your favorite player to play in one of those "foreign" tournaments. I'd bet you'd watch it regardless of the advertisements.
Don't be such a drama queen...
Porn is degrading and victimizes women, this is not something I'm willing to compromise on. You might assume I'm the only one, who feels this way but you're wrong.
I am more offended that you consider it a problem that women have the choice to be adult actresses if they want to. It's not like they're being forced into it. If you don't like it, don't watch, but there's nothing wrong with it.
It's not just the actress you should be concerned about. P.S. if you think everyone who does porn is treated well, fairly and is perfectly happy with the decision you're deluded.
On April 04 2012 14:44 Proko wrote: I would quit following foreign tournaments really quick if something like this happened.
That's what you say now until it comes time for your favorite player to play in one of those "foreign" tournaments. I'd bet you'd watch it regardless of the advertisements.
Don't be such a drama queen...
Porn is degrading and victimizes women, this is not something I'm willing to compromise on. You might assume I'm the only one, who feels this way but you're wrong.
I am more offended that you consider it a problem that women have the choice to be adult actresses if they want to. It's not like they're being forced into it. If you don't like it, don't watch, but there's nothing wrong with it.
I should also say that if you're invoking a quasi feminist argument on this subject you need to spend some time reading up on your theory. There's a big problem with the objectification of women in our culture already.
Porn is good, i like porn. It is porn, that made me get closer to a girl and educated wtf to do in bed. Hell, I've watched brazzers so many times with my GF.
If commercials won't be explicted it's fine. Let's not lie to ourselves, almost every teen is watching porn, so what bad it is if esports get some profit out of it?
Also about bad attitude to womans - well, try to get a girl in a bed and do her so hard, like in the movie you've seen recently (^^) she'll thank you after you are done.
On April 04 2012 17:37 Rimak wrote: Porn is good, i like porn. It is porn, that made me get closer to a girl and educated wtf to do in bed. Hell, I've watched brazzers so many times with my GF.
If commercials won't be explicted it's fine. Let's not lie to ourselves, almost every teen is watching porn, so what bad it is if esports get some profit out of it?
Also about bad attitude to womans - well, try to get a girl in a bed and do her so hard, like in the movie you've seen recently (^^) she'll thank you after you are done.
Well as said in the OP - that's not the problem. The problem is that every SC2 progamer already has a sponsor or a team with sponsors, who would not like to be affiliated with the porn industry and all it brings with it.
On April 04 2012 14:44 Proko wrote: I would quit following foreign tournaments really quick if something like this happened.
That's what you say now until it comes time for your favorite player to play in one of those "foreign" tournaments. I'd bet you'd watch it regardless of the advertisements.
Don't be such a drama queen...
Porn is degrading and victimizes women, this is not something I'm willing to compromise on. You might assume I'm the only one, who feels this way but you're wrong.
I am more offended that you consider it a problem that women have the choice to be adult actresses if they want to. It's not like they're being forced into it. If you don't like it, don't watch, but there's nothing wrong with it.
It's not just the actress you should be concerned about. P.S. if you think everyone who does porn is treated well, fairly and is perfectly happy with the decision you're deluded.
Have you read any of the stuff about how poorly video game testers are treated? There's been a decent amount of press about it recently, 92 hour work weeks for months on end without overtime pay, followed by being laid off. I bet a ton of people would way rather work in porn than in those conditions.
So knowing that conditions are so bad, am I anti-video game? No, not at all. I'm against treating employees unethically, but I recognize that some companies are more moral than others, and try to spend my money accordingly.
Keep in mind we're talking about legal, unethical treatment here. If someone is doing porn against their will or something, obviously I hope those involved are prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But as long as we're in the realm of legal, but still worrying, some business are going to be bad and others aren't, same as in any industry.
On April 04 2012 19:45 Mazaire wrote: The fighting community have successfully isolated themselves from the rest of E-sports with this childish maneuver.
The fighting game community doesn't want to be associated with the rest of ESPORTS you buffoon, why do you think theyve resisted MLG for so long.
On April 04 2012 14:44 Proko wrote: I would quit following foreign tournaments really quick if something like this happened.
That's what you say now until it comes time for your favorite player to play in one of those "foreign" tournaments. I'd bet you'd watch it regardless of the advertisements.
Don't be such a drama queen...
Porn is degrading and victimizes women, this is not something I'm willing to compromise on. You might assume I'm the only one, who feels this way but you're wrong.
That is true and I agree with you. But, saying that you won't watch foreign tournaments because of it is a bit much...
On April 04 2012 14:44 Proko wrote: I would quit following foreign tournaments really quick if something like this happened.
That's what you say now until it comes time for your favorite player to play in one of those "foreign" tournaments. I'd bet you'd watch it regardless of the advertisements.
Don't be such a drama queen...
Porn is degrading and victimizes women, this is not something I'm willing to compromise on. You might assume I'm the only one, who feels this way but you're wrong.
I am more offended that you consider it a problem that women have the choice to be adult actresses if they want to. It's not like they're being forced into it. If you don't like it, don't watch, but there's nothing wrong with it.
I should also say that if you're invoking a quasi feminist argument on this subject you need to spend some time reading up on your theory. There's a big problem with the objectification of women in our culture already.
I would suggest you read "50 shades of grey" and then, read women's opinions on that book
I really don't see what's the problem with porn being advertised to underage people... considering most have sex when they're 15 or thereabouts, saying underage kids don't watch porn on their own is a bit silly as well it just takes people to not be hypocrites and suddenly they'd realise there's nothing wrong with brazzers being a sponsor, pretty sure their advertisement will not violate any censorship laws anyway, as long as e-sport grows it's good for bussiness I guess
also don't say that women are victimized in porn... you can say some women are but most of them choose it of their own free will and circumstances they find themselves in
On April 04 2012 14:44 Proko wrote: I would quit following foreign tournaments really quick if something like this happened.
That's what you say now until it comes time for your favorite player to play in one of those "foreign" tournaments. I'd bet you'd watch it regardless of the advertisements.
Don't be such a drama queen...
Porn is degrading and victimizes women, this is not something I'm willing to compromise on. You might assume I'm the only one, who feels this way but you're wrong.
Why do you say only women are victimized? What about gay porn or since it's two males then one doesn't consider this to be the same? Then how about pegging sites or other bondage based sites based on women humiliating men.
What does it matter if Brazzers gets involved with esports? People who sit at home and fap are more likely to be gamers, so it'd increase eSports' potential audience. They're a company like any other sponsor, so I don't see what the problem is. Apart from the use of the (*gasp*) n word.
Im not part of the fighting game community nor do i ever play fighting games, but i still think this is great. Not sure why people are negative about it. Any esports reaching out anywhere is great. Getting the word out about the games, whats there to hate.
On April 05 2012 00:57 solidbebe wrote: To anyone who thinks it's okay for Brazzers to sponsor. Would you still be okay with it if it wasn't 'brazzers' but something like: 'hornybangbabes'?
Have to remember, this is fighting games. If you offered the players in that community the choice between being on team Complexity or team BigWetAsses, assuming the pay & benefits are the same, I could see a majority or at least similar amounts choosing Team BigWetAsses. A few of the big time organizers have the same feeling of uneasiness and disdain that most on this forum do about this porn sponsorship deal, but you have to remember this is only happening because of the overwhelming amount of people that went crazy asking for it to happen on twitter.
The fraction of people that were hoping for mainstream esports cyber athletes etc for fighters are justifiably afraid of some possible repercussions here, but the actual playerbase is happier than a pig in shit.
That above video with Joe explaining things is good to watch through for a short summary, but instead of starting at the 16 minute mark where Joe starts up, start watching at around 12:15. You might just see something about the FGC that surprises you.
tldr? is it pornfic with idra and tossgirl starring ? :D
More like TL history in the making, if you havn't read it then you should do so, it's a must. Easily one one of the funniest posts of all time on this site
Edit: Oh wow, guess that was my 6k I'm a Valkyrie!
...I don't wanna be a Valkyrie, how can I switch back? :o
On April 05 2012 00:57 solidbebe wrote: To anyone who thinks it's okay for Brazzers to sponsor. Would you still be okay with it if it wasn't 'brazzers' but something like: 'hornybangbabes'?
so you're basically saying that cause some websites/companies have shitty reputation no1 should sponsor?
so you also suggest that no1 should buy games from any gaming company cause EA is so shitty and has such terrible reputation?
from what i gather, brazzers is pretty legit, solid and respected company in that field
On April 04 2012 19:45 Mazaire wrote: The fighting community have successfully isolated themselves from the rest of E-sports with this childish maneuver.
The fighting game community doesn't want to be associated with the rest of ESPORTS you buffoon, why do you think theyve resisted MLG for so long.
I just feel they are going to illegitimize the whole industry in one fell swoop.
On April 04 2012 19:45 Mazaire wrote: The fighting community have successfully isolated themselves from the rest of E-sports with this childish maneuver.
The fighting game community doesn't want to be associated with the rest of ESPORTS you buffoon, why do you think theyve resisted MLG for so long.
I just feel they are going to illegitimize the whole industry in one fell swoop.
Meh, the fighting game community have always been the 4chan of esports. And I highly doubt they'll even see that as an insult.
On April 04 2012 19:45 Mazaire wrote: The fighting community have successfully isolated themselves from the rest of E-sports with this childish maneuver.
The fighting game community doesn't want to be associated with the rest of ESPORTS you buffoon, why do you think theyve resisted MLG for so long.
I just feel they are going to illegitimize the whole industry in one fell swoop.
Meh, the fighting game community have always been the 4chan of esports. And I highly doubt they'll even see that as an insult.
A better way to phrase it would be that the FGC doesn't take itself as seriously as the rest of esports. On TL.net everybody is having this big, important debate, but the people on SRK are celebrating by posting hilarious gifs + jokes for at least the first 4-5 pages that are making light of the whole situation.
On April 04 2012 19:45 Mazaire wrote: The fighting community have successfully isolated themselves from the rest of E-sports with this childish maneuver.
The fighting game community doesn't want to be associated with the rest of ESPORTS you buffoon, why do you think theyve resisted MLG for so long.
I just feel they are going to illegitimize the whole industry in one fell swoop.
I hope this next statement doesn't make me come off as an asshole. You are a prime example of what many people in the fighting game community don't like about esports. Instead of focusing so hard on the industry, how about you just play + watch the games that you love so much.
Too much drama is being spread about ONE PLAYER who is being sponsored. LI Joe clearly stated that he isn't going to be escorted by pornstars to tournies or force the tourny organizers to play a bunch pornographic ads. He's just going to wear t-shirt with brazzers logo to rep the company, and then brazzers pays for his flight tickets and possibly hotel bills. As of right now, that's all there is too it. He even said that he will pull out if things start to get a bit iffy.
On April 04 2012 19:45 Mazaire wrote: The fighting community have successfully isolated themselves from the rest of E-sports with this childish maneuver.
The fighting game community doesn't want to be associated with the rest of ESPORTS you buffoon, why do you think theyve resisted MLG for so long.
I just feel they are going to illegitimize the whole industry in one fell swoop.
Meh, the fighting game community have always been the 4chan of esports. And I highly doubt they'll even see that as an insult.
A better way to phrase it would be that the FGC doesn't take itself as seriously as the rest of esports. On TL.net everybody is having this big, important debate, but on SRK the people are posting hilarious gifs + jokes for at least the first 4-5 pages that are making light of the whole situation.
On April 04 2012 19:45 Mazaire wrote: The fighting community have successfully isolated themselves from the rest of E-sports with this childish maneuver.
The fighting game community doesn't want to be associated with the rest of ESPORTS you buffoon, why do you think theyve resisted MLG for so long.
I just feel they are going to illegitimize the whole industry in one fell swoop.
Meh, the fighting game community have always been the 4chan of esports. And I highly doubt they'll even see that as an insult.
A better way to phrase it would be that the FGC doesn't take itself as seriously as the rest of esports. On TL.net everybody is having this big, important debate, but on SRK the people are posting hilarious gifs + jokes for at least the first 4-5 pages that are making light of the whole situation.
As I said.
That's because their forum moderation is pretty lenient on letting their community express themselves freely. If the TL forum moderation weren't so strict you'd probably see the same type of behavior. Also there are people in the FGC that are taking this discussion seriously, and there are some that are for "esports" despite what the guy above is saying.
good, the fgc is severely lacking sponsorship. you know there is something wrong when vVv is an organization at the top of the community, they hardly even sponsor players.
more money and exposure for the FGC, a niche community, is always good, no matter the source.
fuck colombian drug money would be a good source of income for a member of the FGC.
New update from the LI Joe stream, BangBros is now talking to a specific player looking to sponsor. LOL so good I can't wait until fighters actually have a professional scene based entirely off porn and liquor companies rofl
On April 04 2012 19:45 Mazaire wrote: The fighting community have successfully isolated themselves from the rest of E-sports with this childish maneuver.
The fighting game community doesn't want to be associated with the rest of ESPORTS you buffoon, why do you think theyve resisted MLG for so long.
I just feel they are going to illegitimize the whole industry in one fell swoop.
lol you're putting 10 times more importance on this than you should, competitive gaming is fine with or without this. Also the FGC is resisting MLG because of two people in capcom for the people mentioning that.
There's quite a bit of misinformation on this thread. That's my two cents. Those who follow the FGC will know I am. Anyways, just don't take everything you see here on TL about FGC as absolute truth.
OP is a little vague, but overall this is kinda ridiculous if it is hurting e-sports by taking away sponsors then a brazzers team should definitely be denied imo...
Now here's a question: what can the leagues really do to stop it? Teams might not accept Brazzers (or other porn sites) as a sponsor, but what's to stop an independent player from wearing a T-shirt with their logo on it?
I know MLG* can have you change your 'attire', but is that to MLG's benefit? My understanding of that rule is so you can't walk into the booth in a giant penis costume, or a 'screw MLG' shirt or something. If they choose to reject players based on who pays for their plane tickets, they could get into a mess.
To bring up something from recent E-Sports history: I'm sure most of us have seen/heard about Scarlett's impressive IPL run. She got there through a 'sponsor me' tournament, and was talked to by at least one team manager we know of. What if there's more Scarletts out there? Would they take a Brazzer's sponsorship to have a shot at the top? If a league were to put the kibosh on sponsorships like that, they could be squashing independent talent.
*MLG selected as an example because I know they have such a rule. Please consider all leagues hypothetically in this discussion.
On April 15 2012 10:12 GoStu wrote: Now here's a question: what can the leagues really do to stop it? Teams might not accept Brazzers (or other porn sites) as a sponsor, but what's to stop an independent player from wearing a T-shirt with their logo on it?
I know MLG* can have you change your 'attire', but is that to MLG's benefit? My understanding of that rule is so you can't walk into the booth in a giant penis costume, or a 'screw MLG' shirt or something. If they choose to reject players based on who pays for their plane tickets, they could get into a mess.
To bring up something from recent E-Sports history: I'm sure most of us have seen/heard about Scarlett's impressive IPL run. She got there through a 'sponsor me' tournament, and was talked to by at least one team manager we know of. What if there's more Scarletts out there? Would they take a Brazzer's sponsorship to have a shot at the top? If a league were to put the kibosh on sponsorships like that, they could be squashing independent talent.
*MLG selected as an example because I know they have such a rule. Please consider all leagues hypothetically in this discussion.
Tournaments could just not let you in... it is pretty simple really.
On April 15 2012 10:12 GoStu wrote: Now here's a question: what can the leagues really do to stop it? Teams might not accept Brazzers (or other porn sites) as a sponsor, but what's to stop an independent player from wearing a T-shirt with their logo on it?
I know MLG* can have you change your 'attire', but is that to MLG's benefit? My understanding of that rule is so you can't walk into the booth in a giant penis costume, or a 'screw MLG' shirt or something. If they choose to reject players based on who pays for their plane tickets, they could get into a mess.
To bring up something from recent E-Sports history: I'm sure most of us have seen/heard about Scarlett's impressive IPL run. She got there through a 'sponsor me' tournament, and was talked to by at least one team manager we know of. What if there's more Scarletts out there? Would they take a Brazzer's sponsorship to have a shot at the top? If a league were to put the kibosh on sponsorships like that, they could be squashing independent talent.
*MLG selected as an example because I know they have such a rule. Please consider all leagues hypothetically in this discussion.
Tournaments could just not let you in... it is pretty simple really.
They would suffer for doing that though. We JUST saw that independent players can have talent worth taking note of with Scarlett: should they potentially shut down talent like that because of a logo on A player's shirt?
On April 15 2012 10:12 GoStu wrote: Now here's a question: what can the leagues really do to stop it? Teams might not accept Brazzers (or other porn sites) as a sponsor, but what's to stop an independent player from wearing a T-shirt with their logo on it?
I know MLG* can have you change your 'attire', but is that to MLG's benefit? My understanding of that rule is so you can't walk into the booth in a giant penis costume, or a 'screw MLG' shirt or something. If they choose to reject players based on who pays for their plane tickets, they could get into a mess.
To bring up something from recent E-Sports history: I'm sure most of us have seen/heard about Scarlett's impressive IPL run. She got there through a 'sponsor me' tournament, and was talked to by at least one team manager we know of. What if there's more Scarletts out there? Would they take a Brazzer's sponsorship to have a shot at the top? If a league were to put the kibosh on sponsorships like that, they could be squashing independent talent.
*MLG selected as an example because I know they have such a rule. Please consider all leagues hypothetically in this discussion.
Tournaments could just not let you in... it is pretty simple really.
They would suffer for doing that though. We JUST saw that independent players can have talent worth taking note of with Scarlett: should they potentially shut down talent like that because of a logo on A player's shirt?
If they run the risk of losing their own tournament sponsors... uhhh yes.
I honestly dont get how this is such a problem. I mean we have many tournaments being sponsored by gambling sites. And afaik gambling is partly even banned in the US. For sure it is much more problematic than porn.
And it is not like any sponsored players would run around with porn images on their shirts. They would just have a plain logo somewhere.
Btw when browsing TL I often get ads for Asian hookers. How is that so much better?
Only an issue if the game is not rated M. If it isn't, then you shouldn't have it sponsoring the specific gaming community. SCII isn't M, so it shouldn't. Simple as that.
On April 15 2012 11:40 Redox wrote: Btw when browsing TL I often get ads for Asian hookers. How is that so much better?
lol
TL has excellent recommendations if I ever wanted to meet a nice Filipino girl in Dubai.
Don't really understand people's negative attitude to this especially when much bigger deals happen (West ham taken over by porn magnates) and it really doesn't factor in, a sponsor is a sponsor and one can hardly question the relevance of their product with regard to the gaming community.
On April 04 2012 01:22 solidbebe wrote: There are alot of people <18 watching SC2 events/streams. Something would need to be done against this for any tournament to keep legally streaming.
Well there's plenty of advertising of beer and stuff on tv, at any time of the day.
So please direct us to the porn commercials on TV. Also I've yet to see any beer commercials while watching a stream or tournament.
EPT
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