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What is this you speak of? I am unfamiliar with this website and whatever content may or may not be portrayed on it.
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On April 04 2012 05:20 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:14 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:10 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host. The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose. It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages. You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason. OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there"
I don't really see a bandwagon here. I think any willing sponsor should be able to fund a team.
And people's "moral compass's" really do need to move on in my opinion. Just because there is advertising for adult material does not mean you are compelled to go to the website. If you don't want to, you still don't have to.
This may be different if the material were shown on stream, but I am fairly confident that there will be nothing more than there is on television. I see no problem here.
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A lot of people are confusing some issues when it comes to morality, sponsors, and "uptightness". Sponsors and organizers are not invested in morality. They don't and shouldn't care about enforcing any moral paradigm. Why? Because it doesn't serve them to do so. It doesn't improve their bottom line to try to influence morality.
Instead, sponsors and organizers care about viewers and buyers. Those people DO have notions of morality. Those notions inform what sponsors and organizers do because they do not want to lose those viewers and buyers.
The fact that "some people would not be upset" or even that "people should not be upset about it" is irrelevant. People would be upset about it. Upset people hurts the bottom line. Sponsors/organizers have a vested interest in avoiding it.
There's almost nothing you can do to change things (at least in the short term). It takes cultural shifts to change what sponsors and organizers would allow based on what viewers and buyers would find offensive or not.
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On April 04 2012 05:24 Takkara wrote:
A lot of people are confusing some issues when it comes to morality, sponsors, and "uptightness". Sponsors and organizers are not invested in morality. They don't and shouldn't care about enforcing any moral paradigm. Why? Because it doesn't serve them to do so. It doesn't improve their bottom line to try to influence morality.
Instead, sponsors and organizers care about viewers and buyers. Those people DO have notions of morality. Those notions inform what sponsors and organizers do because they do not want to lose those viewers and buyers.
The fact that "some people would not be upset" or even that "people should not be upset about it" is irrelevant. People would be upset about it. Upset people hurts the bottom line. Sponsors/organizers have a vested interest in avoiding it.
There's almost nothing you can do to change things (at least in the short term). It takes cultural shifts to change what sponsors and organizers would allow based on what viewers and buyers would find offensive or not.
Why do you think you never even see playboy sponsor stuff? Playboy is pretty huge, a lot less intense, and closer to being socially acceptable. Yet you never see them sponsoring sporting events or anything. Don't you think if this sort of thing was actually workable, playboy would have been there and done that?
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The only girl I know in 'real life' who plays Starcraft had to change her name from her real first name (one that was obviously female) to something ambiguous to avoid being harassed in ladder games.
The only 40+ I know who follows Starcraft got into it because his 8 and 10 year old both watch tournaments online and follow their favorite players and he wants to share that experience with them.
I'd love to get my coworkers interested in Starcraft. But every time I'm on ladder and my opponent goes off an a racist/homophobic/misogynistic tirade, of is just generically an asshole, I am reminded of why I haven't yet. This would be yet another hurdle to overcome. I'd be embarrassed if they tried Starcraft on my suggestion and were like, "So THIS is the awesome community you were talking about?"
Do you ever want Starcraft and esports to grow beyond a 99% male, 16-22, socially stereotyped, demographic?
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Its hard to understand how "bad" this would really be; would sponsors really run away if Brazzers co-sponsored certain teams/players? I have to agree with other posters (starbrift) about how it is ridiculous that porn and sex is stigmatized as dirty, wrong, or "immoral". I get the feeling most of it is based on religion.
I can understand people want e-sports to be all that it can be; but look at the audience who you're appealing to. If we support this, would we not also have the potential of attracting a forward-thinking viewership? We know that most people who are interested in watching these tournaments are of the younger generations; who would be more accepting than them? And if sponsors are ultimately looking for more business from the same audience, I don't see a problem. We should be the ones to support porn and say there is nothing wrong with it, and anyone who continues to view it in an irrational, immoral light is welcome to be phased out by a newer, more progressive (and hopefully, correspondingly intelligent) generation.
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On April 04 2012 05:20 Leth0 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:14 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:10 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host. The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose. It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages. You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason. OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there" Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?"
Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals.
I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies.
As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me.
Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement.
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On April 04 2012 05:32 StarBrift wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:20 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:14 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:10 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host. The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose. It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages. You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason. OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there" Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?" Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals. I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies. As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me.
I'd say a large reason a lot of people would have problems with it would be if they are parents. They don't want their 13 year old, who's probably watching porn anyways behind their parents back, to think it's acceptable. Just like they'd be very upset if a cigarette company sponsored as well. Constant exposure of the 13 year old to the industry via video games would probably piss the parents off.
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On April 04 2012 05:27 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:24 Takkara wrote:
A lot of people are confusing some issues when it comes to morality, sponsors, and "uptightness". Sponsors and organizers are not invested in morality. They don't and shouldn't care about enforcing any moral paradigm. Why? Because it doesn't serve them to do so. It doesn't improve their bottom line to try to influence morality.
Instead, sponsors and organizers care about viewers and buyers. Those people DO have notions of morality. Those notions inform what sponsors and organizers do because they do not want to lose those viewers and buyers.
The fact that "some people would not be upset" or even that "people should not be upset about it" is irrelevant. People would be upset about it. Upset people hurts the bottom line. Sponsors/organizers have a vested interest in avoiding it.
There's almost nothing you can do to change things (at least in the short term). It takes cultural shifts to change what sponsors and organizers would allow based on what viewers and buyers would find offensive or not. Why do you think you never even see playboy sponsor stuff? Playboy is pretty huge, a lot less intense, and closer to being socially acceptable. Yet you never see them sponsoring sporting events or anything. Don't you think if this sort of thing was actually workable, playboy would have been there and done that?
Playboy has their own television station as well as a show on a public cable channel.
They also sponsor several concerts that I have attended as a main sponsor.
They kind of have been there and done that, with no real backlash. I don't see your argument?
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On April 04 2012 05:36 Holytornados wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:27 Mohdoo wrote:On April 04 2012 05:24 Takkara wrote:
A lot of people are confusing some issues when it comes to morality, sponsors, and "uptightness". Sponsors and organizers are not invested in morality. They don't and shouldn't care about enforcing any moral paradigm. Why? Because it doesn't serve them to do so. It doesn't improve their bottom line to try to influence morality.
Instead, sponsors and organizers care about viewers and buyers. Those people DO have notions of morality. Those notions inform what sponsors and organizers do because they do not want to lose those viewers and buyers.
The fact that "some people would not be upset" or even that "people should not be upset about it" is irrelevant. People would be upset about it. Upset people hurts the bottom line. Sponsors/organizers have a vested interest in avoiding it.
There's almost nothing you can do to change things (at least in the short term). It takes cultural shifts to change what sponsors and organizers would allow based on what viewers and buyers would find offensive or not. Why do you think you never even see playboy sponsor stuff? Playboy is pretty huge, a lot less intense, and closer to being socially acceptable. Yet you never see them sponsoring sporting events or anything. Don't you think if this sort of thing was actually workable, playboy would have been there and done that? Playboy has their own television station as well as a show on a public cable channel. They also sponsor several concerts that I have attended as a main sponsor. They kind of have been there and done that, with no real backlash. I don't see your argument?
To be fair that shit is restricted from minor's view. You have to pay for the channel, and in order to pay, you have to be 18+, so it's regulated by parents.
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On April 04 2012 05:32 StarBrift wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:20 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:14 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:10 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host. The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose. It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages. You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason. OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there" Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?" Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals. I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies. As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me. Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement.
What makes you entitled to an opinion if other people aren't allowed to have an opinion? You think porn is perfectly tasteful, ok that's fine. But why cant others feel that it's distasteful? I'm confused.
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Brazzer's logo on Idra's stream =))
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I disagree with this not gonna lie . I don't want future pro gamers parents looking at eSports and seeing porn sites sponsor their child's career . It would hurt our image not help it.
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On April 04 2012 05:36 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:32 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:20 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:14 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:10 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host. The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose. It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages. You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason. OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there" Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?" Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals. I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies. As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me. I'd say a large reason a lot of people would have problems with it would be if they are parents. They don't want their 13 year old, who's probably watching porn anyways behind their parents back, to think it's acceptable. Just like they'd be very upset if a cigarette company sponsored as well. Constant exposure of the 13 year old to the industry via video games would probably piss the parents off.
I understand your point. But I'd wager that same kid would see about 10 times more alchohol and cigarette advertisements in his daily life than one logo off a shirt.
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On April 04 2012 05:37 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:32 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:20 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:14 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:10 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host. The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose. It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages. You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason. OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there" Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?" Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals. I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies. As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me. Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement. What makes you entitled to an opinion if other people aren't allowed to have an opinion? You think porn is perfectly tasteful, ok that's fine. But why cant others feel that it's distasteful? I'm confused.
No , we are free to find it distasteful and completely out of place. We're just 'stupid ignorant bigot's" for having that opinion. Can't refute that logic no matter how ironic.
Oh, also our 'moral compass' must be off.
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Some sponsors are likely to pull sponsorship if they see other brands being aired next to them that can reflect an image they don't want. Coca Cola / Pepsi aren't going to want porn advertised in the same event as them, they'll see it as tarnishing their wholesome image. That's just being realistic.
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On April 04 2012 05:39 StarBrift wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:36 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 04 2012 05:32 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:20 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:14 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:10 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host. The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose. It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages. You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason. OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there" Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?" Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals. I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies. As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me. I'd say a large reason a lot of people would have problems with it would be if they are parents. They don't want their 13 year old, who's probably watching porn anyways behind their parents back, to think it's acceptable. Just like they'd be very upset if a cigarette company sponsored as well. Constant exposure of the 13 year old to the industry via video games would probably piss the parents off. I understand your point. But I'd wager that same kid would see about 10 times more alchohol and cigarette advertisements in his daily life than one logo off a shirt.
Cigarette advertisements have been massively toned down in the U.S., and alcohol is actually quite hard to purchase yourself if you're under 21. Heavily regulated. Porn, on the other hand, is a click away. And it's not porn itself, but more so the image it represents, embracing sexuality or whatever. Which makes parents think they're kid is going to have a kid at age 15.
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On April 04 2012 05:37 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:32 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:20 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:14 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:10 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host. The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose. It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages. You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason. OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there" Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?" Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals. I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies. As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me. Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement. What makes you entitled to an opinion if other people aren't allowed to have an opinion? You think porn is perfectly tasteful, ok that's fine. But why cant others feel that it's distasteful? I'm confused.
Sure they can, but I made the argument that distaste is irrelevant. Also my earlier points claim that distaste that evolves into outrage over porn is illogical and unreasonable. Anyone is allowed to be illogical and unreasonable. I'd just rather not spend my time around such people if I can help it which is why I made the joke about the space ship.
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The fact that military can sponsor things, which is organized violence good bad or ugly anyway you look at it, is acceptable but heaven forbid sex which is natural be associated!
I've never understood this double standard that exists in many societies, maybe not yours but for many of them this is true. For example TV shows constant and excessive cruelty from one human to another. Fighting, shooting, stabbing, scamming and lying, these are all ok to show on TV. However a boob, a bare butt? Oh noes the childrens!!!
I'd rather my kid grow up learning sex is ok when done responsibly rather than that it ok to casually hurt your fellow man, which is what is constantly visually preached on TV.
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On April 04 2012 05:42 StarBrift wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2012 05:37 RoosterSamurai wrote:On April 04 2012 05:32 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:20 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:14 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 05:10 Leth0 wrote:On April 04 2012 05:02 StarBrift wrote:On April 04 2012 04:30 D_K_night wrote:On April 04 2012 03:26 StarBrift wrote:
When stuff like this happens I wish that allt he progressives and rational thinkers in this world could get on a huge space craft and just go live on another planet. The only reason this is a problem is that backwards minded people arbitrarily associates porn (or to a lesser extent sex) with bad morality.
There is nothing morally wrong with Brazzers buisness. They produce a form of entertainment that is consumed by a great ammount of people over the world. They are not a skeevy site that deals in trafficing or forces women into starring in their movies. If you want to make an argument that they are portraying women in a bad light then sure make that argument, but some people will make the argument that porn empowers women. I'm not going to go into that huge debate right now though.
Now I don't personally get off on main stream porn like what Brazzers do. It's just evident to me that the women in the movies are mostly not enjoying what's being done to them (as in they wouldn't have sex like that in their private life). That being said, porn is not bad in itself. It is an industry that provides pleasure by showing consensual sex between adults (if done legally). If one looks at that and says "well gosh darn that is immoral", that person is illogical and wrong.
Having young kids watch porn is something I think we can all agree on is immoral becuase they are too young to understand what is real and not. But I don't think its up to all of society to shield kids from porn at any cost. Any sensible parent will have his kids computer blocking porn sites and as long as no actual sex is going on in public that child should be old enough to understand what porn is when he/she is first exposed to it. I also don't see how a Brazzers logo on someones shirt is going to expose a child to porn.
So the corporations shy away from asociating with porn because they are afraid of the backlash it might have on their own buisness. That backlash is built on a vast majority of people being idiots. There is no nicer way to say it. Thinking that porn is immoral without taking a look at the facts or even distinguishing between different kinds of porn is simply stupid. Apparently a large enough ammount of these companies customers are this misinformed and thus we have to endure this stupidity.
This is why when I say I want to go far away from this planet I'm wishing it because of the events or sponsors that make these decisions. I'm wishing it because of the immense stupidity of ordinary people in our world and their inability to educate themselves on very basic subjects. That's all cool, but remember you're from Sweden. And the way of thinking in your country differs dramatically from say, people in America. Here in America, just like anywhere else, there are curious double standards. Explicit violence is fine, but sex aired on primetime TV is a no-no(until a certain late time period). Think about all the things that the US considers "scandals" but are tame when viewed by Europeans. The key here is not trying to change people/cultures/regional differences, but simply acknowledging that these differences do exist, and we have to just work with it. So if a BRAZZERS advertises with just a mugshot of one of their actresses(let's say oh, Aletta Ocean) alongside a Starcraft 2 tourney. In Europe people might see that, recognize it, but not necessarily put two-and-two together and automatically think it's a bad thing. They'll probably just see it as "oh, that's Brazzers advertising...oh this video game SC2 has a tourney for $$, cool" But here in America? No man. People will have a double standard. They'll see Aletta Ocean, know that she's a porn star, and then they'll think "so now video games are mixing with porn? forget it, this is why video gamers are pathetic". That's just how it is. Not to say that BRAZZERS couldn't make headway into the video industry. I think they can, actually. But not for SC2. For Street Fighter and fighting game tourneys...I could see it happen. It's because it's due to an entirely different sub-culture and arguably completely different audience that fighting games draw in. What you're saying is correct of course. My point is that what you call cultural differences in this case I call bigotry, stupidity and unreason. The points that I made shows this pretty well I think. When a majority of people dislike this based on an arbitrary moral standard triggered by a knee jerk emotional reaction then that's pretty close to as ignorant as it gets. Take note that I didn't put the US on blast in my post, you said it was the US. I'm saying regardless of where someone is from, when they reason in such ways, they are ignorant and unreasonable. Cultural differences is not a cloak that people can deflect all critisism with. I want to clarify that what I'm talking about in the above paragraph is the damnation of all things porn by the general public. Not the decision to disallow this sponsorship by any company or tournament host. The people who run video game tournaments have nothing to gain by collaberating with a porn industry, how is that 'bigoted , stupid, or unreasonable' , it's REALISTIC. You can talk down to people all you want if it makes you feel better about yourself, that doesn't change the fact that these 2 industries have nothing to gain from working together and in fact 1 has everything to lose. It's customary to read the post of the person you're replying to you know. If you had you would have understood that my beef is not with the industry that is forced to make these decisions. It's with the general public that hold such opinions based knee jerk reactions instead of actually looking into what this company is and how it affects the world. The fact that people would get outraged by a porn company discreetly sponsoring anyone is what makes me wish I could live with people whose moral compass has moved on since the middle ages. You are assuming people have something against porn when in fact most people dont. That doesn't mean it needs to be everywhere. It's distastefull, Some people would get outraged yea? Some people would get outraged if they changed the ingredients for doritos. Doesn't mean you can generalize and just say "america fucking stupid" it's obviously just trying to start shit for no reason. OF COURSE people would react negatively to porn being intergrated into a video game culture since IT MAKES NO SENSE and has no legitimate reason for being there. People need to hop off this bandwagon of "I'm a big boy , porn is normal why shouldn't it be there" Ask yourself "why SHOULD it be there?" Again you reply without reading through my posts. It's quite sad that you go on some kind of crusade against me without even taking 1 minute out of your life to read through something you're replying to. I never said this was a phenomenon that is based in america, that other guy did. I clearly stated in that post that my opnion is that where ever you are in the world, if you hold that opinion, you have either not looked at the entire picture or you have a very ancient unreasonable set of morals. I can conceede that my choice of wording in "a vast majority of the general public" was grossly overstating how many people actually care about this. But the point is that enough people care for companies to have a serious risk attached to these things. That may not be a majority, But it's surely numbers that are big enough to matter economically even for big companies. As for it making no sense, that's obviously false. A player wants a sponsor to send him to tournaments, a company wants to increase their exposure and the target audience is the overwhelming demographic for that company. Nothing can make more sense to me. Also. Something being "distasteful" does not mean anything useful. It's your personal opinion. Distasteful is what old people say about young peoples clothes. It's what some people say about others musical interests. I don't find porn advertising distasteful as long as there is no actual porn in the advertisement. What makes you entitled to an opinion if other people aren't allowed to have an opinion? You think porn is perfectly tasteful, ok that's fine. But why cant others feel that it's distasteful? I'm confused. Sure they can, but I made the argument that distaste is irrelevant. Also my earlier points claim that distaste that evolves into outrage over porn is illogical and unreasonable. Anyone is allowed to be illogical and unreasonable. I'd just rather not spend my time around such people if I can help it which is why I made the joke about the space ship.
If you were a fan of logic and reason than you would realize that the only thing that matters in this situation is the bottom line. How would brazzers being connected to say MLG for example help make MLG money?
It wouldn't in fact it would do the opposite. Doesn't matter what your opinion is , or my opinion, what matters is how they are going to make money within the REAL WORLD. Not some fantasy land that people think the world should be like.
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