EPTNBA Playoffs (2010-2011) - Page 137
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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ilikejokes
United States217 Posts
Edit: you use the word flopping in a different way than most people... it's one thing to sell a charge, but James and Wade will fake fouls. That's flopping, and it's basically cheating and disrespectful to the game. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
Anyhow, it was a one point game with seconds to go, faking those fouls are the difference between the Heat winning and losing this game and, to be honest, I can't blame them for it. If they're in the finals they're doing something right. Then again I'm a fan of the team with the greatest flopper in the game (Harden, lol). | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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ilikejokes
United States217 Posts
On May 27 2011 16:07 Ace wrote: ilikejokes sometimes I really don't know if you're serious or just upset at the Miami Heat to the point of delusion Do you disagree that Wade and James pretend there's contact/will fake contact in order to get foul calls? I think it's disrespectful of the game when any player does it, not just Heat players. If Rose did it I wouldn't support him as much. When KD did it against the Mavs I lost a lot of respect for him. The fact that I haven't noticed Bosh doing it for this Heat team has earned a lot of respect from me. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
It's ridiculous but when guys are trying to win and the refs reward it well how can you fault them? | ||
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ilikejokes
United States217 Posts
The league doesn't encourage it. The fact that the rules do not punish it does not qualify as encouragement. The fact that the rules can be exploited by it does not qualify as encouragement, either. I don't discriminate between floppers. All floppers are disrespecting the game. That's all there is to it in my eyes. | ||
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On May 27 2011 16:23 ilikejokes wrote: One definition (of a few) of cheating is "to act dishonestly; practice fraud." The kind of "pretend fouls" that James and Wade act for qualify as dishonesty. It's lying to further your position on the court. To the extent that the refs reward it, that's an issue for the refs. But I didn't see Jordan ever try to fake or milk contact. The same goes for Magic, Bird, Olajuwon, and any of the other all-time greats. These players had too much respect for the game and themselves to do this. THE RULES WERE DIFFERENT Charge rules and crack downs on fouls have been changed, and for good reason. Do you want to see Malone busting Thomas' head open everytime he drives the basket? Also, your definition of cheating is just plain dumb and twisted to serve your point. Cheating is breaking the rules, plain and simple. Until there is a rule for unsportsmanlike faking of foul or something then it's not cheating. The league doesn't encourage it. The fact that the rules do not punish it does not qualify as encouragement. The fact that the rules can be exploited by it does not qualify as encouragement, either. The league makes no distinction and no punshiment for selling foul calls. If it was legitimately cheating they would, and that by itself rewards doing it because the reward is getting foul calls. There is such thing as support by ignoring. | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On May 27 2011 16:23 ilikejokes wrote: One definition (of a few) of cheating is "to act dishonestly; practice fraud." The kind of "pretend fouls" that James and Wade act for qualify as dishonesty. It's lying to further your position on the court. To the extent that the refs reward it, that's an issue for the refs. But I didn't see Jordan ever try to fake or milk contact. The same goes for Magic, Bird, Olajuwon, and any of the other all-time greats. These players had too much respect for the game and themselves to do this. The league doesn't encourage it. The fact that the rules do not punish it does not qualify as encouragement. The fact that the rules can be exploited by it does not qualify as encouragement, either. I don't discriminate between floppers. All floppers are disrespecting the game. That's all there is to it in my eyes. That's taking a very idealistic idea of the league in the 80's. How are dirty fouls more respectful of the game than floppers? They didn't have flagrants back then. A lot of great defense is knowing how to get away with lots of fouls/contact when the refs aren't looking. Technically it's dishonest. Flopping is the idealogical counter to that. Here's the issue: say a player repeatedly grabs/shoves you/reaches in and hits your arms/hands over the course of the game. He's careful enough to do it only when the refs aren't in a good position to see it. He now has an unfair advantage over you. How do you counter it? In the 1980's, the counter would be to just retaliate. A McHale clothesline or an Oakley takedown might do the trick. That gets punished now, so you can either just accept that they're going to keep fouling the hell out of you while nobody's looking, try to find a way to counter their illegal move, or you could make it clear that you're being fouled. | ||
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ilikejokes
United States217 Posts
How is it taking an idealistic view? I've watched those guys play. They didn't flop, plain and simple. I don't see how that makes any statements about the league as a whole in the 80's. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
See I can ad hominem too. They didn't flop because there were no rules that benefitted flopping. If you honestly don't think MJ wouldn't have done anything within the rules to win then you're over glorifying what was a fairly dirty, tricky, and intelligent player. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
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ilikejokes
United States217 Posts
On May 27 2011 16:32 TwoToneTerran wrote: You're the guy who elbows someone in the face and says it's respecting the honor of the game! See I can ad hominem too. Where did I say I thought flagrant fouls were a good thing? It's also disrespectful to actively try to injure/assault another player. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On May 27 2011 16:34 ilikejokes wrote: Where did I say I thought flagrant fouls were a good thing? It's also disrespectful to actively try to injure/assault another player. You're glorfying a lot of players who were far far dirtier than you're giving them credit for. They played with harder fouls because the rules benefited it, no matter how you want to view it. The only difference between flopping and the overly hard fouling they did in the 80s is that no one is getting hurt when someone fakes a foul. | ||
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ilikejokes
United States217 Posts
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
On May 27 2011 16:37 ilikejokes wrote: They played where there actually had to be significant contact for it to be a foul call, sure, but that doesn't mean everyone was running around punching everyone else LOL wtf You do know where the term "playoff basketball" comes from, right? Back then it was just short of punching dudes when you'd stop them from going to the basket. My basic point is that every great player you've named has at some point in his career abused the execution of the rules to win. No player is pure and perfect and your blind rage for the Heat leads you to over glorify past stars because they have this aura of invincibility when it comes to criticism. It's pedantic and dumb and there isn't a single player on any of your lists who hasn't given nasty fouls, yet you demonize Lebron and Wade for something far less harmless and just as intelligent. | ||
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ilikejokes
United States217 Posts
On May 27 2011 16:38 TwoToneTerran wrote: You do know where the term "playoff basketball" comes from, right? Back then it was just short of punching dudes when you'd stop them from going to the basket. That's somewhat of an exaggeration. Yeah there were fouls that were like that, but not all fouls were as hard as you're making them out to be, and anyway I think that's a better form of basketball than watching a free throw shooting contest. I don't find hard fouls as distasteful because it's an overt rather than a deceptive act. The player committing an overt foul is pretending anything--he is obviously committing a foul. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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jmbthirteen
United States10734 Posts
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