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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37095 Posts
On May 27 2011 13:10 Tiamat wrote:
Ok you bandwagon Heat fans. 6 month BAN bet right here right now. I bet DAL will win the Finals. Dallas' crisp offense is just WAY too good for the Heat to handle. They are 9 deep, the Heat has Dampier on their team. (yes i know he doesnt play but still) Enough said. Baby Bron already won his title when they beat an old Celtics team. Dirk is your true MVP this season.
Any takers?
Just at a curiosity, exactly what does he mean by a 6 month ban bet?
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On May 27 2011 14:22 VENDIZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 13:57 Brees wrote:On May 27 2011 13:49 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:40 BlueRoyaL wrote:
i realize that sometimes bad-calls have an impact on the game, especially if it's late in the fourth quarter, BUT they don't impact the game to the point that a team loses a series because of it. The refs are making so many calls every game, it's impossible for everything to be perfect. Very true, but I think a lot of the fans of the losing side (in this case, the Bulls, who I am a fan of), stick to wishful thinking and a lot of "but if" hypothesis'. For example; if we hadn't gotten some non-playoff calls against us, leading to the tech and so forth, we would've kept our momentum and won the game.. Now with the momentum shifting in our direction, we'd go out and play amazing in Game 6, which would obviously lead to a win. By now, our opponents (this time, the Heat) would be so broken down by our effort the last two games, they'll implode at some point of the game (just like we did in our two last games).. It's seems incredible foolish to think this way, but when fans are talking about their own team they tend to leave every logical aspect out of the thought process - which leads to a lot of amusing posts on forums (this thread, for instance).. I think this goes for all "true fans" of any sport - you hate to see your team lose, and you like to think of them as the superior team to others, ergo you speak from the heart, regardless of how inaccurate it might be. only self entitled fans think like this though, particularly ones that have been spoiled by amazing organizations. Laker fans are the best example of this, they were fucking booing their team to oblivion and it was pathetic to watch. as a wizard fan....you only see the NBA for what it is l0l Did you really get that Lakers fans booing their own team are true fans? Really? EDIT: But what's your reasoning for those picks (you didn't say), Ace?
To make it short since I really don't want to rehash all of those arguments and now clearly justified points:
1.) To be MVP you have to be highly efficient in scoring, and if not be other wordly in something else
Every NBA MVP over the last what, 20 something years with the exception of Iverson and Kobe have had high Field Goal %. This matters a lot. When you shoot a high volume but not spectacular percentages this creates more possessions for the other team. Even a great defensive team that rebounds well will eventually have trouble keeping up with a player that doesn't shoot efficiently but shoots a lot. The entire 2011 PlayOffs for Derrick Rose and Russel Westbrook are a great example.
2.) You have to be REALLY good on both sides of the ball, and/or add something else to the game
This is where I designate my top 10 and "who's an elite superstar" posts from. There are only a handful of really good 2 way players in the NBA. They are worth much, much more than players that can mainly only score. I've said it time and time again that if you're guy isn't scoring and he can't impact the game in another way that being playing high level defense, play making, rebounding everything, blocks, steals - he isn't at "that" level. When you watch Wade, Lebron, Kobe at times, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Kevin Garnett - you KNOW these guys are on the court even when they dont have the ball. Carmelo Anthony and Stoudemire - they don't give you the same feeling.
3.) If you aren't elite defensively, you better be a monster offensively to the point of changing the game
Dirk.
That about sums up what I said about my MVP picks all through out the year.
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I should have been happy that wade gets to go to another finals at the end of this game.
Instead I was happy that I wouldn't have to read more pathetic excuses from ilikejokes and hear about how fucking good derrick rose is.
Thank fucking god.
Mavs vs Heat. Win-win no matter what happens.
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Marshall Islands3404 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:22 VENDIZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 13:57 Brees wrote:On May 27 2011 13:49 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:40 BlueRoyaL wrote:
i realize that sometimes bad-calls have an impact on the game, especially if it's late in the fourth quarter, BUT they don't impact the game to the point that a team loses a series because of it. The refs are making so many calls every game, it's impossible for everything to be perfect. Very true, but I think a lot of the fans of the losing side (in this case, the Bulls, who I am a fan of), stick to wishful thinking and a lot of "but if" hypothesis'. For example; if we hadn't gotten some non-playoff calls against us, leading to the tech and so forth, we would've kept our momentum and won the game.. Now with the momentum shifting in our direction, we'd go out and play amazing in Game 6, which would obviously lead to a win. By now, our opponents (this time, the Heat) would be so broken down by our effort the last two games, they'll implode at some point of the game (just like we did in our two last games).. It's seems incredible foolish to think this way, but when fans are talking about their own team they tend to leave every logical aspect out of the thought process - which leads to a lot of amusing posts on forums (this thread, for instance).. I think this goes for all "true fans" of any sport - you hate to see your team lose, and you like to think of them as the superior team to others, ergo you speak from the heart, regardless of how inaccurate it might be. only self entitled fans think like this though, particularly ones that have been spoiled by amazing organizations. Laker fans are the best example of this, they were fucking booing their team to oblivion and it was pathetic to watch. as a wizard fan....you only see the NBA for what it is l0l Did you really get that Lakers fans booing their own team are true fans? Really? EDIT: But what's your reasoning for those picks (you didn't say), Ace?
i was implying the exact opposite, but they are still fans regardless. You saw the product of self entitled fans.
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On May 27 2011 14:35 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 14:22 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:57 Brees wrote:On May 27 2011 13:49 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:40 BlueRoyaL wrote:
i realize that sometimes bad-calls have an impact on the game, especially if it's late in the fourth quarter, BUT they don't impact the game to the point that a team loses a series because of it. The refs are making so many calls every game, it's impossible for everything to be perfect. Very true, but I think a lot of the fans of the losing side (in this case, the Bulls, who I am a fan of), stick to wishful thinking and a lot of "but if" hypothesis'. For example; if we hadn't gotten some non-playoff calls against us, leading to the tech and so forth, we would've kept our momentum and won the game.. Now with the momentum shifting in our direction, we'd go out and play amazing in Game 6, which would obviously lead to a win. By now, our opponents (this time, the Heat) would be so broken down by our effort the last two games, they'll implode at some point of the game (just like we did in our two last games).. It's seems incredible foolish to think this way, but when fans are talking about their own team they tend to leave every logical aspect out of the thought process - which leads to a lot of amusing posts on forums (this thread, for instance).. I think this goes for all "true fans" of any sport - you hate to see your team lose, and you like to think of them as the superior team to others, ergo you speak from the heart, regardless of how inaccurate it might be. only self entitled fans think like this though, particularly ones that have been spoiled by amazing organizations. Laker fans are the best example of this, they were fucking booing their team to oblivion and it was pathetic to watch. as a wizard fan....you only see the NBA for what it is l0l Did you really get that Lakers fans booing their own team are true fans? Really? EDIT: But what's your reasoning for those picks (you didn't say), Ace? To make it short since I really don't want to rehash all of those arguments and now clearly justified points: 1.) To be MVP you have to be highly efficient in scoring, and if not be other wordly in something else Every NBA MVP over the last what, 20 something years with the exception of Iverson and Kobe have had high Field Goal %. This matters a lot. When you shoot a high volume but not spectacular percentages this creates more possessions for the other team. Even a great defensive team that rebounds well will eventually have trouble keeping up with a player that doesn't shoot efficiently but shoots a lot. The entire 2011 PlayOffs for Derrick Rose and Russel Westbrook are a great example. 2.) You have to be REALLY good on both sides of the ball, and/or add something else to the game This is where I designate my top 10 and "who's an elite superstar" posts from. There are only a handful of really good 2 way players in the NBA. They are worth much, much more than players that can mainly only score. I've said it time and time again that if you're guy isn't scoring and he can't impact the game in another way that being playing high level defense, play making, rebounding everything, blocks, steals - he isn't at "that" level. When you watch Wade, Lebron, Kobe at times, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Kevin Garnett - you KNOW these guys are on the court even when they dont have the ball. Carmelo Anthony and Stoudemire - they don't give you the same feeling. 3.) If you aren't elite defensively, you better be a monster offensively to the point of changing the game Dirk. That about sums up what I said about my MVP picks all through out the year.
Cool, justified opinion. For some reason I had you down to someone who chose the MVP out of PTS-AST-REB avg. in the regular season (which would exclude so many great players).. so that was uncalled for on my part!
Aaaand in hopes to derail the "LOL HEAT>BULLS, BULLS>HEAT, REFS>WORLD" theme this series have turned into; who do you guys think will be the draftee to make the biggest impact on the next season (given that none of them gets injured post-draft)?
On May 27 2011 14:54 Brees wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 14:22 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:57 Brees wrote:On May 27 2011 13:49 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:40 BlueRoyaL wrote:
i realize that sometimes bad-calls have an impact on the game, especially if it's late in the fourth quarter, BUT they don't impact the game to the point that a team loses a series because of it. The refs are making so many calls every game, it's impossible for everything to be perfect. Very true, but I think a lot of the fans of the losing side (in this case, the Bulls, who I am a fan of), stick to wishful thinking and a lot of "but if" hypothesis'. For example; if we hadn't gotten some non-playoff calls against us, leading to the tech and so forth, we would've kept our momentum and won the game.. Now with the momentum shifting in our direction, we'd go out and play amazing in Game 6, which would obviously lead to a win. By now, our opponents (this time, the Heat) would be so broken down by our effort the last two games, they'll implode at some point of the game (just like we did in our two last games).. It's seems incredible foolish to think this way, but when fans are talking about their own team they tend to leave every logical aspect out of the thought process - which leads to a lot of amusing posts on forums (this thread, for instance).. I think this goes for all "true fans" of any sport - you hate to see your team lose, and you like to think of them as the superior team to others, ergo you speak from the heart, regardless of how inaccurate it might be. only self entitled fans think like this though, particularly ones that have been spoiled by amazing organizations. Laker fans are the best example of this, they were fucking booing their team to oblivion and it was pathetic to watch. as a wizard fan....you only see the NBA for what it is l0l Did you really get that Lakers fans booing their own team are true fans? Really? EDIT: But what's your reasoning for those picks (you didn't say), Ace? i was implying the exact opposite, but they are still fans regardless. You saw the product of self entitled fans.
My bad, I read it incorrectly, it's 8am here, and I haven't slept in way too long :<
EDIT: HOLY FUCK! I managed to mess that edit up about 10 times before I got it right.. damn
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I'm happy for Wade too. He's an absolute warrior and I'd like to see him talked about with the great ones. Unfortunately, he's had his share of battle scars and he was a college senior, I believe, when he came out from Marquette. The explosion is still there but more spaced out than it used to be - even the ball handling seems worse. He may need to reinvent his game in a few seasons but I hope not yet.
As for the Bulls, inefficient offense or not, no one can take away how hard they played or their spectacular season. They are very much locked into this core team by nature of contract: Rose, Boozer, Deng and Noah. Do you think this team, with a little growth and development can be a constant contender? I do - I hope they continue to buy into Thib's defense and show up strong next season.
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On May 27 2011 14:35 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 14:22 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:57 Brees wrote:On May 27 2011 13:49 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:40 BlueRoyaL wrote:
i realize that sometimes bad-calls have an impact on the game, especially if it's late in the fourth quarter, BUT they don't impact the game to the point that a team loses a series because of it. The refs are making so many calls every game, it's impossible for everything to be perfect. Very true, but I think a lot of the fans of the losing side (in this case, the Bulls, who I am a fan of), stick to wishful thinking and a lot of "but if" hypothesis'. For example; if we hadn't gotten some non-playoff calls against us, leading to the tech and so forth, we would've kept our momentum and won the game.. Now with the momentum shifting in our direction, we'd go out and play amazing in Game 6, which would obviously lead to a win. By now, our opponents (this time, the Heat) would be so broken down by our effort the last two games, they'll implode at some point of the game (just like we did in our two last games).. It's seems incredible foolish to think this way, but when fans are talking about their own team they tend to leave every logical aspect out of the thought process - which leads to a lot of amusing posts on forums (this thread, for instance).. I think this goes for all "true fans" of any sport - you hate to see your team lose, and you like to think of them as the superior team to others, ergo you speak from the heart, regardless of how inaccurate it might be. only self entitled fans think like this though, particularly ones that have been spoiled by amazing organizations. Laker fans are the best example of this, they were fucking booing their team to oblivion and it was pathetic to watch. as a wizard fan....you only see the NBA for what it is l0l Did you really get that Lakers fans booing their own team are true fans? Really? EDIT: But what's your reasoning for those picks (you didn't say), Ace? To make it short since I really don't want to rehash all of those arguments and now clearly justified points: 1.) To be MVP you have to be highly efficient in scoring, and if not be other wordly in something else Every NBA MVP over the last what, 20 something years with the exception of Iverson and Kobe have had high Field Goal %. This matters a lot. When you shoot a high volume but not spectacular percentages this creates more possessions for the other team. Even a great defensive team that rebounds well will eventually have trouble keeping up with a player that doesn't shoot efficiently but shoots a lot. The entire 2011 PlayOffs for Derrick Rose and Russel Westbrook are a great example. 2.) You have to be REALLY good on both sides of the ball, and/or add something else to the game This is where I designate my top 10 and "who's an elite superstar" posts from. There are only a handful of really good 2 way players in the NBA. They are worth much, much more than players that can mainly only score. I've said it time and time again that if you're guy isn't scoring and he can't impact the game in another way that being playing high level defense, play making, rebounding everything, blocks, steals - he isn't at "that" level. When you watch Wade, Lebron, Kobe at times, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Kevin Garnett - you KNOW these guys are on the court even when they dont have the ball. Carmelo Anthony and Stoudemire - they don't give you the same feeling. 3.) If you aren't elite defensively, you better be a monster offensively to the point of changing the game Dirk. That about sums up what I said about my MVP picks all through out the year.
So you don't factor in anything like leadership or 'intangibles' or what?
@Ack1027: you sound pretty bitter about something maybe you should see someone about that
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guys do you think the lakers will one day meet the heat in the finals?
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On May 27 2011 14:55 VENDIZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 14:35 Ace wrote:On May 27 2011 14:22 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:57 Brees wrote:On May 27 2011 13:49 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:40 BlueRoyaL wrote:
i realize that sometimes bad-calls have an impact on the game, especially if it's late in the fourth quarter, BUT they don't impact the game to the point that a team loses a series because of it. The refs are making so many calls every game, it's impossible for everything to be perfect. Very true, but I think a lot of the fans of the losing side (in this case, the Bulls, who I am a fan of), stick to wishful thinking and a lot of "but if" hypothesis'. For example; if we hadn't gotten some non-playoff calls against us, leading to the tech and so forth, we would've kept our momentum and won the game.. Now with the momentum shifting in our direction, we'd go out and play amazing in Game 6, which would obviously lead to a win. By now, our opponents (this time, the Heat) would be so broken down by our effort the last two games, they'll implode at some point of the game (just like we did in our two last games).. It's seems incredible foolish to think this way, but when fans are talking about their own team they tend to leave every logical aspect out of the thought process - which leads to a lot of amusing posts on forums (this thread, for instance).. I think this goes for all "true fans" of any sport - you hate to see your team lose, and you like to think of them as the superior team to others, ergo you speak from the heart, regardless of how inaccurate it might be. only self entitled fans think like this though, particularly ones that have been spoiled by amazing organizations. Laker fans are the best example of this, they were fucking booing their team to oblivion and it was pathetic to watch. as a wizard fan....you only see the NBA for what it is l0l Did you really get that Lakers fans booing their own team are true fans? Really? EDIT: But what's your reasoning for those picks (you didn't say), Ace? To make it short since I really don't want to rehash all of those arguments and now clearly justified points: 1.) To be MVP you have to be highly efficient in scoring, and if not be other wordly in something else Every NBA MVP over the last what, 20 something years with the exception of Iverson and Kobe have had high Field Goal %. This matters a lot. When you shoot a high volume but not spectacular percentages this creates more possessions for the other team. Even a great defensive team that rebounds well will eventually have trouble keeping up with a player that doesn't shoot efficiently but shoots a lot. The entire 2011 PlayOffs for Derrick Rose and Russel Westbrook are a great example. 2.) You have to be REALLY good on both sides of the ball, and/or add something else to the game This is where I designate my top 10 and "who's an elite superstar" posts from. There are only a handful of really good 2 way players in the NBA. They are worth much, much more than players that can mainly only score. I've said it time and time again that if you're guy isn't scoring and he can't impact the game in another way that being playing high level defense, play making, rebounding everything, blocks, steals - he isn't at "that" level. When you watch Wade, Lebron, Kobe at times, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Kevin Garnett - you KNOW these guys are on the court even when they dont have the ball. Carmelo Anthony and Stoudemire - they don't give you the same feeling. 3.) If you aren't elite defensively, you better be a monster offensively to the point of changing the game Dirk. That about sums up what I said about my MVP picks all through out the year. Cool, justified opinion. For some reason I had you down to someone who chose the MVP out of PTS-AST-REB avg. in the regular season (which would exclude so many great players).. so that was uncalled for on my part! Aaaand in hopes to derail the "LOL HEAT>BULLS, BULLS>HEAT, REFS>WORLD" theme this series have turned into; who do you guys think will be the draftee to make the biggest impact on the next season (given that none of them gets injured post-draft)? Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 14:54 Brees wrote:On May 27 2011 14:22 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:57 Brees wrote:On May 27 2011 13:49 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:40 BlueRoyaL wrote:
i realize that sometimes bad-calls have an impact on the game, especially if it's late in the fourth quarter, BUT they don't impact the game to the point that a team loses a series because of it. The refs are making so many calls every game, it's impossible for everything to be perfect. Very true, but I think a lot of the fans of the losing side (in this case, the Bulls, who I am a fan of), stick to wishful thinking and a lot of "but if" hypothesis'. For example; if we hadn't gotten some non-playoff calls against us, leading to the tech and so forth, we would've kept our momentum and won the game.. Now with the momentum shifting in our direction, we'd go out and play amazing in Game 6, which would obviously lead to a win. By now, our opponents (this time, the Heat) would be so broken down by our effort the last two games, they'll implode at some point of the game (just like we did in our two last games).. It's seems incredible foolish to think this way, but when fans are talking about their own team they tend to leave every logical aspect out of the thought process - which leads to a lot of amusing posts on forums (this thread, for instance).. I think this goes for all "true fans" of any sport - you hate to see your team lose, and you like to think of them as the superior team to others, ergo you speak from the heart, regardless of how inaccurate it might be. only self entitled fans think like this though, particularly ones that have been spoiled by amazing organizations. Laker fans are the best example of this, they were fucking booing their team to oblivion and it was pathetic to watch. as a wizard fan....you only see the NBA for what it is l0l Did you really get that Lakers fans booing their own team are true fans? Really? EDIT: But what's your reasoning for those picks (you didn't say), Ace? i was implying the exact opposite, but they are still fans regardless. You saw the product of self entitled fans. My bad, I read it incorrectly, it's 8am here, and I haven't slept in way too long :< EDIT: HOLY FUCK! I managed to mess that edit up about 10 times before I got it right.. damn
I think Irvine is the best bet for immediate impact, but I don't think he will be the best long term player in the draft.
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Who do you reckon will have the best career out of all of them? Derrick Williams, perhaps?
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On May 27 2011 14:59 ilikejokes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 14:35 Ace wrote:On May 27 2011 14:22 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:57 Brees wrote:On May 27 2011 13:49 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:40 BlueRoyaL wrote:
i realize that sometimes bad-calls have an impact on the game, especially if it's late in the fourth quarter, BUT they don't impact the game to the point that a team loses a series because of it. The refs are making so many calls every game, it's impossible for everything to be perfect. Very true, but I think a lot of the fans of the losing side (in this case, the Bulls, who I am a fan of), stick to wishful thinking and a lot of "but if" hypothesis'. For example; if we hadn't gotten some non-playoff calls against us, leading to the tech and so forth, we would've kept our momentum and won the game.. Now with the momentum shifting in our direction, we'd go out and play amazing in Game 6, which would obviously lead to a win. By now, our opponents (this time, the Heat) would be so broken down by our effort the last two games, they'll implode at some point of the game (just like we did in our two last games).. It's seems incredible foolish to think this way, but when fans are talking about their own team they tend to leave every logical aspect out of the thought process - which leads to a lot of amusing posts on forums (this thread, for instance).. I think this goes for all "true fans" of any sport - you hate to see your team lose, and you like to think of them as the superior team to others, ergo you speak from the heart, regardless of how inaccurate it might be. only self entitled fans think like this though, particularly ones that have been spoiled by amazing organizations. Laker fans are the best example of this, they were fucking booing their team to oblivion and it was pathetic to watch. as a wizard fan....you only see the NBA for what it is l0l Did you really get that Lakers fans booing their own team are true fans? Really? EDIT: But what's your reasoning for those picks (you didn't say), Ace? To make it short since I really don't want to rehash all of those arguments and now clearly justified points: 1.) To be MVP you have to be highly efficient in scoring, and if not be other wordly in something else Every NBA MVP over the last what, 20 something years with the exception of Iverson and Kobe have had high Field Goal %. This matters a lot. When you shoot a high volume but not spectacular percentages this creates more possessions for the other team. Even a great defensive team that rebounds well will eventually have trouble keeping up with a player that doesn't shoot efficiently but shoots a lot. The entire 2011 PlayOffs for Derrick Rose and Russel Westbrook are a great example. 2.) You have to be REALLY good on both sides of the ball, and/or add something else to the game This is where I designate my top 10 and "who's an elite superstar" posts from. There are only a handful of really good 2 way players in the NBA. They are worth much, much more than players that can mainly only score. I've said it time and time again that if you're guy isn't scoring and he can't impact the game in another way that being playing high level defense, play making, rebounding everything, blocks, steals - he isn't at "that" level. When you watch Wade, Lebron, Kobe at times, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Kevin Garnett - you KNOW these guys are on the court even when they dont have the ball. Carmelo Anthony and Stoudemire - they don't give you the same feeling. 3.) If you aren't elite defensively, you better be a monster offensively to the point of changing the game Dirk. That about sums up what I said about my MVP picks all through out the year. So you don't factor in anything like leadership or 'intangibles' or what? that
^why would they factor in intangibles for the MVP award? there might be a correlation with the MVP award and being a "leader" but things like personality and character are non factors in the MVP voting system. come on you a rookie?
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On May 27 2011 14:59 ilikejokes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 14:35 Ace wrote:On May 27 2011 14:22 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:57 Brees wrote:On May 27 2011 13:49 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:40 BlueRoyaL wrote:
i realize that sometimes bad-calls have an impact on the game, especially if it's late in the fourth quarter, BUT they don't impact the game to the point that a team loses a series because of it. The refs are making so many calls every game, it's impossible for everything to be perfect. Very true, but I think a lot of the fans of the losing side (in this case, the Bulls, who I am a fan of), stick to wishful thinking and a lot of "but if" hypothesis'. For example; if we hadn't gotten some non-playoff calls against us, leading to the tech and so forth, we would've kept our momentum and won the game.. Now with the momentum shifting in our direction, we'd go out and play amazing in Game 6, which would obviously lead to a win. By now, our opponents (this time, the Heat) would be so broken down by our effort the last two games, they'll implode at some point of the game (just like we did in our two last games).. It's seems incredible foolish to think this way, but when fans are talking about their own team they tend to leave every logical aspect out of the thought process - which leads to a lot of amusing posts on forums (this thread, for instance).. I think this goes for all "true fans" of any sport - you hate to see your team lose, and you like to think of them as the superior team to others, ergo you speak from the heart, regardless of how inaccurate it might be. only self entitled fans think like this though, particularly ones that have been spoiled by amazing organizations. Laker fans are the best example of this, they were fucking booing their team to oblivion and it was pathetic to watch. as a wizard fan....you only see the NBA for what it is l0l Did you really get that Lakers fans booing their own team are true fans? Really? EDIT: But what's your reasoning for those picks (you didn't say), Ace? To make it short since I really don't want to rehash all of those arguments and now clearly justified points: 1.) To be MVP you have to be highly efficient in scoring, and if not be other wordly in something else Every NBA MVP over the last what, 20 something years with the exception of Iverson and Kobe have had high Field Goal %. This matters a lot. When you shoot a high volume but not spectacular percentages this creates more possessions for the other team. Even a great defensive team that rebounds well will eventually have trouble keeping up with a player that doesn't shoot efficiently but shoots a lot. The entire 2011 PlayOffs for Derrick Rose and Russel Westbrook are a great example. 2.) You have to be REALLY good on both sides of the ball, and/or add something else to the game This is where I designate my top 10 and "who's an elite superstar" posts from. There are only a handful of really good 2 way players in the NBA. They are worth much, much more than players that can mainly only score. I've said it time and time again that if you're guy isn't scoring and he can't impact the game in another way that being playing high level defense, play making, rebounding everything, blocks, steals - he isn't at "that" level. When you watch Wade, Lebron, Kobe at times, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Kevin Garnett - you KNOW these guys are on the court even when they dont have the ball. Carmelo Anthony and Stoudemire - they don't give you the same feeling. 3.) If you aren't elite defensively, you better be a monster offensively to the point of changing the game Dirk. That about sums up what I said about my MVP picks all through out the year. So you don't factor in anything like leadership or 'intangibles' or what? @Ack1027: you sound pretty bitter about something maybe you should see someone about that
Not as much as others. Sure it's important, but the intangibles are just icing on the cake when comparing guys at the same level. Thing is some people give more benefit to things like leadership and humility which don't have as much of an impact on the game than your actual ability to dominate.
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Enes Kanter, barring injury. Only draft prospect to stay after everyone left and practice in the gym during the combine in Chicago. Young 7-footer with good footwork and high potential, right attitude, good work ethic. Honestly I think he should go first but he probably gets bumped down simply because everyone has a huge boner for point guards and Irving is a solid option with no downside. Derrick Williams has some pretty good potential but there were things about his game (based on what I saw in the tournament, I didn't watch Arizona much during the season) that were pretty unpolished.
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On May 27 2011 15:04 Golgotha wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 14:59 ilikejokes wrote:On May 27 2011 14:35 Ace wrote:On May 27 2011 14:22 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:57 Brees wrote:On May 27 2011 13:49 VENDIZ wrote:On May 27 2011 13:40 BlueRoyaL wrote:
i realize that sometimes bad-calls have an impact on the game, especially if it's late in the fourth quarter, BUT they don't impact the game to the point that a team loses a series because of it. The refs are making so many calls every game, it's impossible for everything to be perfect. Very true, but I think a lot of the fans of the losing side (in this case, the Bulls, who I am a fan of), stick to wishful thinking and a lot of "but if" hypothesis'. For example; if we hadn't gotten some non-playoff calls against us, leading to the tech and so forth, we would've kept our momentum and won the game.. Now with the momentum shifting in our direction, we'd go out and play amazing in Game 6, which would obviously lead to a win. By now, our opponents (this time, the Heat) would be so broken down by our effort the last two games, they'll implode at some point of the game (just like we did in our two last games).. It's seems incredible foolish to think this way, but when fans are talking about their own team they tend to leave every logical aspect out of the thought process - which leads to a lot of amusing posts on forums (this thread, for instance).. I think this goes for all "true fans" of any sport - you hate to see your team lose, and you like to think of them as the superior team to others, ergo you speak from the heart, regardless of how inaccurate it might be. only self entitled fans think like this though, particularly ones that have been spoiled by amazing organizations. Laker fans are the best example of this, they were fucking booing their team to oblivion and it was pathetic to watch. as a wizard fan....you only see the NBA for what it is l0l Did you really get that Lakers fans booing their own team are true fans? Really? EDIT: But what's your reasoning for those picks (you didn't say), Ace? To make it short since I really don't want to rehash all of those arguments and now clearly justified points: 1.) To be MVP you have to be highly efficient in scoring, and if not be other wordly in something else Every NBA MVP over the last what, 20 something years with the exception of Iverson and Kobe have had high Field Goal %. This matters a lot. When you shoot a high volume but not spectacular percentages this creates more possessions for the other team. Even a great defensive team that rebounds well will eventually have trouble keeping up with a player that doesn't shoot efficiently but shoots a lot. The entire 2011 PlayOffs for Derrick Rose and Russel Westbrook are a great example. 2.) You have to be REALLY good on both sides of the ball, and/or add something else to the game This is where I designate my top 10 and "who's an elite superstar" posts from. There are only a handful of really good 2 way players in the NBA. They are worth much, much more than players that can mainly only score. I've said it time and time again that if you're guy isn't scoring and he can't impact the game in another way that being playing high level defense, play making, rebounding everything, blocks, steals - he isn't at "that" level. When you watch Wade, Lebron, Kobe at times, Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, Kevin Garnett - you KNOW these guys are on the court even when they dont have the ball. Carmelo Anthony and Stoudemire - they don't give you the same feeling. 3.) If you aren't elite defensively, you better be a monster offensively to the point of changing the game Dirk. That about sums up what I said about my MVP picks all through out the year. So you don't factor in anything like leadership or 'intangibles' or what? that ^why would they factor in intangibles for the MVP award? there might be a correlation with the MVP award and being a "leader" but things like personality and character are non factors in the MVP voting system. come on you a rookie?
Because the award goes to the most "valuable" player and a player who brings his teammates up (by setting an example with his work ethic, getting them to buy into his coach's system, etc.) adds value to a team without directly impacting the game. I think Rose's MVP candidacy is unorthodox in that it's largely based on circumstantial evidence: this Bulls team overachieved significantly (or at least that's what people think) given their starting PF and starting C missed significant time. Rose scored or assisted on some absurd number of their baskets, as well, and the voters were willing to excuse his less-efficient scoring based on his lack of consistent help on the offensive end. If you look at the flat numbers (PPG RPG APG) they're comparable (overall they're worse, especially rebounding, but still comparable) to Lebron's 09 MVP award.
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Yeah, I've got a feeling Kanter will do well, but I think it depends on what team he's drafted to.. from what I've seen of Williams I like him a lot, he's a fairly safe pick, that's for sure. I'm hoping we'll see the burst of a second round pick if I'm honest.. it's so fun to see the things some late picks / undrafted players accomplish after a while..
It's fun to look back at players who were late picks and became something, like Sprewell, Boozer, Van Exel, Ben Wallace (from undrafted to All-NBA), same story with Brad Miller (though All-star, not All-NBA)... or Manu Ginobilli being the 57th pick, talk about hitting bullseye..
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Well Sprewell choked his coach, I think that qualifies as downside.
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On May 27 2011 13:08 ilikejokes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 13:01 TwoToneTerran wrote:On May 27 2011 12:50 ilikejokes wrote:On May 27 2011 12:48 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 27 2011 12:41 On_Slaught wrote:
Ugh soooooooo disappointed in the Bulls. I only saw the score at the start of the 4th and it seemed like the Bulls had finally gotten their act together. I knew they would never beat the heat in a 7game series but I thought they could at least send it back to Miami but I should have known they would collapse and start shooting like they aren't being paid to be there (ie miss everything).
Time for the fair-weather heat fans to start chanting 4-0. It sure is easy to win when your opponents shoot about 30% averages, with the majority of that being b/c they are inept (not your omg amazing defense).
Calling it now... Heat win in 6 having shot 50+ more free throws than the mavs. Don't send Crawford please! Umm it is the Heat defense actually. Rose went 9/29. Is he inept? Probably tired, actually, and all this revisionist nonsense about how he shouldn't have won the (regular season) MVP award is getting silly. The Heat played the best defense of any team on Rose this season, props to them. More importantly, Boozer is dead to me, and James and Wade have absolutely no respect for the game. I actually like Bosh as a player after this series, he really showed his skill and decision making ability. As far as I'm concerned no truly great player has ever been a flopper. The Heat could win titles every year for the next 5 or 6 and they still aren't great in my eyes because of all the flopping. It's disgusting. There is not a single team in the league that hasn't had players flop. Fuck, Rose himself has pulled flopworthy charges this season. guess he's not a real player. LOL? Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Doctor J, Shaq, TD these guys are all-time greats and none of them are/were floppers. And calling Rose a flopper that's a laugh and a half.
Charge rules were massively different for all of those stars. You're deluded if you don't think Rose has flopped before.
Players play to the way the rules are. Hakeem and Kareem were not lesser players because rules benefited centers back when they played, they're not somehow worse for playing up their advantage. Lebron is not a worse player for knowing the rules and being smart enough to win games using them and neither is Rose who has done it as well. Nowhere nearly as much as Lebron but if he can't use his intelligence to win games then he's nothing more than a shorter, dumber Lebron with a weak jumper.
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On May 27 2011 15:43 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 13:08 ilikejokes wrote:On May 27 2011 13:01 TwoToneTerran wrote:On May 27 2011 12:50 ilikejokes wrote:On May 27 2011 12:48 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 27 2011 12:41 On_Slaught wrote:
Ugh soooooooo disappointed in the Bulls. I only saw the score at the start of the 4th and it seemed like the Bulls had finally gotten their act together. I knew they would never beat the heat in a 7game series but I thought they could at least send it back to Miami but I should have known they would collapse and start shooting like they aren't being paid to be there (ie miss everything).
Time for the fair-weather heat fans to start chanting 4-0. It sure is easy to win when your opponents shoot about 30% averages, with the majority of that being b/c they are inept (not your omg amazing defense).
Calling it now... Heat win in 6 having shot 50+ more free throws than the mavs. Don't send Crawford please! Umm it is the Heat defense actually. Rose went 9/29. Is he inept? Probably tired, actually, and all this revisionist nonsense about how he shouldn't have won the (regular season) MVP award is getting silly. The Heat played the best defense of any team on Rose this season, props to them. More importantly, Boozer is dead to me, and James and Wade have absolutely no respect for the game. I actually like Bosh as a player after this series, he really showed his skill and decision making ability. As far as I'm concerned no truly great player has ever been a flopper. The Heat could win titles every year for the next 5 or 6 and they still aren't great in my eyes because of all the flopping. It's disgusting. There is not a single team in the league that hasn't had players flop. Fuck, Rose himself has pulled flopworthy charges this season. guess he's not a real player. LOL? Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Doctor J, Shaq, TD these guys are all-time greats and none of them are/were floppers. And calling Rose a flopper that's a laugh and a half. Charge rules were massively different for all of those stars. You're deluded if you don't think Rose has flopped before. Players play to the way the rules are. Hakeem and Kareem were not lesser players because rules benefited centers back when they played, they're not somehow worse for playing up their advantage. Lebron is not a worse player for knowing the rules and being smart enough to win games using them and neither is Rose who has done it as well.
1. Flopping and taking a charge are not the same thing, and it seems you're saying they are here (please clarify if I'm wrong)
2. What rules benefited centers? Most of the rules changes in the early going of the NBA were not beneficial to centers--widening the lane, the goaltending/offensive interference rules, etc.
I feel like you're just making stuff up because you're mad I called Wade and James floppers.
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Why would I be mad that you called them floppers? I think they're smart for doing it, and I'd say the same for any NBA player. Anyone who pretends to be some honorable player is making excuses for why he's not making the big defensive plays and why he is clearly inferior in the #1 goal: to win. Flopping is when you notice there is enough contact in the player you're the primary defender on to sell a charge, even if you're strong enough in position to stay on your feet. Some flops are more obvious than others but almost everytime you see a guy slide back on the floor after taking a charge, this is clearly a flop. Derek Rose has done this, although not as much because there aren't as many players that he covers at the PG that charge.
About the centers, there's a plethora of big ones but most of the zone changes, the defense and offensive in the paint, etc etc. Back in the old day there was no such thing as a "post" game for players because centers weren't forced to move as much. It's part of the reason things were so much grittier and brutal then, too.
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You seem to be confused about what a 'post' game is, because players back then definitely had a post game.
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EPT
