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Long list of strengths and weaknesses (imo) of ME1 and ME2 in spoiler
+ Show Spoiler + I loved both ME1 and ME2, but for different reasons and both definitely had their flaws. ME1 had a great setting, you met each character for a logical reason, and the character development was driven through missions aimed at defeating the rogue Spectre guy and taking out geth. This makes sense because your initially out to take down one powerful guy, something that a surgical strike team like the one you gather.
The environments for the most part were beautifullly done. The Citadel felt like the city in space and center of civlization that it was supposed to be. The Mako exploration missions for the most part were boring because of the monotonous planet landscapes, but the ones that varied a little and had a side quest were brilliant.
The combat system was great, but your allies could ne relatively useless later on in the game even on higher difficulties. The classes were unique enough that another play through with a different class with a different experience. The inventory system was a little bit unruly, but once I got the Spectre weapons and decent armor I didn't bother picking up other ones
The variety of enemies was simply pathetic though. I know the geth are the main enemy, with the occasional husk, krogan, or whatever mixed in, but it made fighting kind of monotonous (although in a different way so then the 1. crouch behind cover 2. Use bio powers 3. Fire when not fired upon 4. win combat system of ME2).
The story of ME1, like most people here said, is what really shines. All things gradually point to the galactic threat of the reapers, and your choices later on in the game become more world-changing as a result. One that sticks out to me is deciding whether or not to let the Rachni queen live, and consequently whether or not they can join in on the final battle. Basically the story serves to gradually highlight the gravity of the Reaper threat, culminating with the entire Citadel fleet barely taking out the Reaper. This to me shows that a rag-tag team of aliens and a Spectre cannot defeat the Reapers, but that the entire galaxy must unite to survive. That may be cliche, but the way that this resolution is built up to is not at all cliche and makes it seem more plausible.
This sets up ME2, which I assumed from the end of the first one, would be about gaining allies (like entire space fleets) to help with the Reapers, and finding some potential weakness that they have. ME2 is supposed to be the "dark" game of the trilogy, but that could still have easily been accomplished by the questionable actions that Shepard would need to do in order secure certain allies, like alientaing one to gain another or something along those lines.
The environments in ME2 are even better looking than ME1, but seem to lose their awe and expansiveness, especially with the lack of planetary exploration. When I am in a space RPG, I kind of expect the gam world to feel more open and free, at least on side quests that don't impact the main story line.
The combat system in ME2 is simply put, a Gears of War clone with biotic powers. The process of 1. duck behind cover 2. use biotics 3. shoot back for a second when not shot at 4. win or die gets kinda boring in a 20+ hour long game
The "streamlined" inventory was definitely a disappointment over the ME1 clusterfuck/hording. Classes didn't change too much but because of the combat system offer less of a different experience on another play through.
The variety of enemies is certainly greater than ME1, but the combat system makes it feel like fighting anything but those huge mechs, a boss, or maybe the melee enemies very unique. Fighting a geth is supposed to be different than a mercenary, but they are almost identical except maybe in the handgun you use.
Simply put, the story of ME2 is way too centered around the around the characters. I get that it is supposed to make the game feel more personal, but it also makes the game progress relatively little until the final few missions. As another poster put it, half of the characters have no place. I think Bioware could have done a better job of making the characters loyalty missions tie into gaining more galactic support to fight the Reapers. Legion's loyalty missions effectively helps bring the geth into the fight against them, but that seems to be the only one seem very important. Compared to the potential destruction of the galaxy, who cares if Jack has bad childhood memories? Who cares if Jacob has daddy issues or Mordin wants to save his pupil? Grunt's loyalty mission could have been tied to gaining the krogans as allies, while still remaining personal. Mordins' loyalty mission could have been about convincing him to develop a cure to the krogan genophage. Tali's loyalty mission could have been tied to gaining the support of the quarians. Samara's mission could be tied to gaining the alliance of more asari justicars to make kind of a second commando team if needed Not every missions needed to be like this, but i would have given a nice balance to "getting a competent and loyal team" and "need more firepower to take out Reapers if an entire fleet can only take out one"
What I hope for in ME3 is similar to the ending missions and some of the DLC for ME2. The part where you play Joker and try to escape the ship is a nice diversion from simply being in control of Shepard. Controling Samara leading a group of justicars on a strike aboard a reaper would be awesome, and different than if it were with Shepard. In the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC, the fight with the Spectre was different than the standard duck-and-cover combat system, you actually had to think about where to move to avoid her biotics, especially on Insane. The driving mission in that mission was also very well done. In the Overlord DLC, the last battle also requires some management of the battle rather than just blasting enemies, and the fact that you only have Shepard to do it is a nice change of pace. The scenery and Hammerhead sequences are also done very well The Repaer IFF mission felt awesome and mysterious because you were "stomping on holy ground" and did not know where the enemies were coming from.
ME3 needs to have the expansive feel of ME1, a different combat system than the first two, or at least make multiple styles viable, a hybrid inventory system, a enemies closer to the variety in ME2. Above all though, it needs to still have some focus on character development along with saving the galaxy to make it a well rounded and unique RPG.
Multiplayer... meh not something I really care about for this game
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On January 15 2011 01:56 SmokeNAPancake wrote: snip
hits the nail right on the head
ME2 definitely didn't have the "Shepard's changing the galaxy" feel that ME1 had. He made history, destroyed a reaper and saved the council (presumably) but in ME2 be barely does anything at all. If anything it was a step backwards achievement-wise, he stops a cure for the krogan genophage and only manages to kill a half formed reaper. ME2 may have been much more streamlined but ME1 was definetly more epic
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Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
I really liked ME1, but was quite disappointed with ME2. I felt that in ME1 the characters turned out to be interesting and likeable because the game designers were not explicitly trying to make them "cool", so they felt more natural and believable. This goes both for the player's party and the "villains".
In ME2 it was the other way around, most of the characters were really boring despite the obvious attempt to make them unique and cool. To be honest I can't even recall much about any of them besides Tali, Mordin and Legion, and I have done every side mission there was. I actually thought Kelly was the most charismatic of all the new characters and she wasn't even a major character. And the ending was a true /facepalm moment for me.
+ Show Spoiler +ME1's story may not be super original or deep, but at least it was believable and it created a very nice atmosphere, and the ending was very satisfactory. The build up of threat and the final crippling battle were done perfectly. But ME2's ending butchered the plausibility of the whole story in 5 minutes. It's like for the whole game you are trying to find out who those weird Collector guys are and why are they abducting humans, but there is no build up before the finale whatsoever, just a sudden "revelation" that they are literally grinding humans to make a giant human-shaped spaceship from their bodies. Really, what the hell >:-(
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+ Show Spoiler +I believe that was Bioware's attempt at originality. Mass Effect's storyline stays extremely close to the novels that inspired it, I guess they wanted to get away from that a bit.
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On January 15 2011 01:56 SmokeNAPancake wrote: Simply put, the story of ME2 is way too centered around the around the characters. I get that it is supposed to make the game feel more personal, but it also makes the game progress relatively little until the final few missions. As another poster put it, half of the characters have no place. I think Bioware could have done a better job of making the characters loyalty missions tie into gaining more galactic support to fight the Reapers. Legion's loyalty missions effectively helps bring the geth into the fight against them, but that seems to be the only one seem very important. Compared to the potential destruction of the galaxy, who cares if Jack has bad childhood memories? Who cares if Jacob has daddy issues or Mordin wants to save his pupil? Grunt's loyalty mission could have been tied to gaining the krogans as allies, while still remaining personal. Mordins' loyalty mission could have been about convincing him to develop a cure to the krogan genophage. Tali's loyalty mission could have been tied to gaining the support of the quarians. Samara's mission could be tied to gaining the alliance of more asari justicars to make kind of a second commando team if needed Not every missions needed to be like this, but i would have given a nice balance to "getting a competent and loyal team" and "need more firepower to take out Reapers if an entire fleet can only take out one"
I don't think Mordin deserves to be picked on. In fact, his counter for the collectors should be enough to put him in the top 5 list of important allies of the series, so I'd say he deserves some slack.
And maybe ME3 can retroactively fix some of the ME2 blunders by making the recruitables more pertinent to the story? I'm still no sure how Garrus, Jack and Jacob could become useful on a more galactic scale like Grunt, Tali or Legion could due to their racial connections, but as far as I'm concerned it's only the missed potential that bothered me. It;s okay for Garrus to be around for old times sake, for Jacob to be a random flunky and for Jack to stay for... come to think of it, why wouldn't she just buzz off asap? She hates Cerberus...
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As long as it doesn't effect single player, I'll be happy with it. The first two were so good, I just need a good, epic, grand finale. But who knows, some kind of multi player could be fun. Maybe a little coop separate from the main campaign.
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the multiplayer thing will turn out ok. have faith in bioware.
the part we should be focusing on is:
ITS THE THIRD GAME IN A TRILOGY.
no more mass effect.
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On January 15 2011 03:51 Reneblade wrote:the multiplayer thing will turn out ok. have faith in bioware. the part we should be focusing on is: ITS THE THIRD GAME IN A TRILOGY. no more mass effect.
They confirmed that they will have more games set in the universe after the trilogy is done =) Not sure if Shepard will be the main character though.
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On January 15 2011 11:35 snotboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2011 03:51 Reneblade wrote:the multiplayer thing will turn out ok. have faith in bioware. the part we should be focusing on is: ITS THE THIRD GAME IN A TRILOGY. no more mass effect. They confirmed that they will have more games set in the universe after the trilogy is done =) Not sure if Shepard will be the main character though. Worries me that we might soon see:
Mass Effect Wars ME: ODST Mass Effect: Ilos
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Is the third game confirmed to have more Legion? :3
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mass effect wars LOOOOOOOOL alliance, citadel united, and reapers GOOGOGOGO
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god i cant wait for this... Bioware has put out my 2 favorite series ever... Dragon Age Origins and Mass effect... i don't even care what they do i'm going to buy every future game int hese series and play the shit out of it
although im a huge fan of their single player... we'll see how good the multiplayer is before i make any promises on playing that
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if mp is bad, i can ignore it, mass effect for me is single player i still need to beat the liara dlc on insanity... only achievement i have left on me2 me2 is the only game i found worthy of getting all the achievements for, i love it
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Hopefully future Mass Effect universe games include more inter-species physical relations.
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Bioware is the only company who has made single player games that are actually worth keeping after playing them through. I have faith in that they'll make ME3 just as awesome. I feel like they are separate enough from EA to actually make quality games, without just thinking of money.
I'm a little worried about blizzard though. First of all they are planning on 3x starcraft 2. Worries me to say the least, plus that they merged with the ultra capitalist activision. We'll see what the future holds for the gaming industry, but I sincerely hope they keep thinking of quality instead of quantity. Single player co-up seems exciting to me. I don't know anyone who plays mass effect, but maybe we could make a thread about it on TL ^^
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EA generally doesn't touch programming houses since they are a huge company already. They might ask for 1-2 things, but in general they just pay for development and reap in the profits.
Activision is different though. They purchased a company with a HUGE market. Their relationship with blizzard is one of their most important, aside from rock band or call of duty. My guess is that activision interacts constantly with blizzard. Also, blizzard doesn't always make the best financial decisions. This is probably where activision came in the to help. I'm sure the 2 expansion thing is a direct result of their relationship and battle.net seems to be a joint blizzard-activision product with the goal of becoming the next steam.
In all though, Mass Effect 3 should be awesome and I am looking forward to an amazing game.
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Why multiplayer, why... RPG's with this richness should be single player!
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it can't be worse than WoW pvp...
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On January 26 2011 05:49 Liquoid wrote: Why multiplayer, why... RPG's with this richness should be single player!
Keep in mind, that has had to be the case because the combat in 99% of rpgs is borderline atrocious. Whether it be a turn based JRPG or a more open world western rpg the combat has always been the weak point of the rpg genre. Mass Effect 2 arguably changed that. Now, while the combat did indeed become somewhat monotonous, that can be said about almost any game after you clock 20 hours into it.
I actually think a revolutionary rpg will be a true team-oriented game with co-op for online or off that has a rich world and plot is the driving force. Imagine playing a game like Mass Effect where your team of 3 are all players that have a background and storyline that come with it that is actually relevant to the plot. Individual missions or storyline on the side and not as a group could possibly be accomplished too. Have decisions that sometimes come down to individuals or the group as a whole.
I eagerly await that rpg, that's for sure.
I meandered a little bit from the point I was originally going to make because that idea just sinks into the depths of my brain and festers there hoping that it will one day become a reality. Multiplayer doesn't have to detract from the single player aspect of mass effect. If a combat system is good enough there is almost no reason not to include a multiplayer option. Obviously, if it somehow means they actually cut short effort on single player people will be disappointed, but that doesn't mean the mere inclusion of it means that that cut to single player.
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Bioware denied multiplayer shortly after this rumour (google for the source i don't have it at my hands right now). I apologize for making this thread pointless.
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