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On September 23 2011 23:57 Hikko wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 23:18 DEN1ED wrote:
Alara??? What cards from alara are played in modern/legacy? From the entire block, I can only think of elspeth, nacatl, and cascade cards, but cascade is just broken.
With the size of the cardpool for these formats, you aren't going to get more than maybe 3 cards from a set that might have an impact on these formats. Qasali Pridemage, Noble Heirarch, Elspeth, Wild Nacatl, Bloodbraid Elf, Path to Exile, Relic of Progenitus, Maelstrom Pulse, Knight of the Reliquary, Ad Nauseum, Ethersworn Canonist, Cascade cards (like Bloodbraid Elf), Sphinx of the Steel Wind, Magister Sphinx, Cruel Ultimatum, Ranger of Eos, Progenitus.... So yeah, just a few. Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 23:40 Judicator wrote:On September 23 2011 23:33 Orpheos wrote:
noble hierarch, path to exile? Path over Swords? Nah... Legacy Zoo always plays Path over Swords
It's nice to be able to say that now. Cruel Ultimatum shouldn't be on that list.
It's also nice to compare sets to blocks. My point is that true power levels aren't known yet despite the full spoilers.
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On September 23 2011 23:57 Hikko wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2011 23:18 DEN1ED wrote:
Alara??? What cards from alara are played in modern/legacy? From the entire block, I can only think of elspeth, nacatl, and cascade cards, but cascade is just broken.
With the size of the cardpool for these formats, you aren't going to get more than maybe 3 cards from a set that might have an impact on these formats. Qasali Pridemage, Noble Heirarch, Elspeth, Wild Nacatl, Bloodbraid Elf, Path to Exile, Relic of Progenitus, Maelstrom Pulse, Knight of the Reliquary, Ad Nauseum, Ethersworn Canonist, Cascade cards (like Bloodbraid Elf), Sphinx of the Steel Wind, Magister Sphinx, Cruel Ultimatum, Ranger of Eos, Progenitus.... So yeah, just a few.
Kinda reaching there at the end. Cruel ultimatum, maelstrom pulse and ranger don't see play. The sphinxs are maybe a 1 of in reanimator. Canonist is SB. Ad nauseum in bad combo decks. That leaves maybe 9-12 cards from the block that have a real impact. Ok, so 3-4 cards a set.
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Wow, that was not a discussion I was expecting. I was just mentioning how I don't think a rare can stay 30$ not matter how good it is in the first set of a block. People will be drafting and cracking Innistrad packs for the next 9? months, there is no way the demand can stay high enough for that. IMO the mage will jump to 35 maaaaaaybe 40 on the day of prerelease/release, then down to 25-28 and trickle down from there until it hits 20-22 in 3 months. Thats why I said I would sell at 30, i think in a couple of weeks 25 will be a reasonable price, and I can put off playing with him till then.
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On September 24 2011 01:47 DCLXVI wrote:
Wow, that was not a discussion I was expecting. I was just mentioning how I don't think a rare can stay 30$ not matter how good it is in the first set of a block. People will be drafting and cracking Innistrad packs for the next 9? months, there is no way the demand can stay high enough for that. IMO the mage will jump to 35 maaaaaaybe 40 on the day of prerelease/release, then down to 25-28 and trickle down from there until it hits 20-22 in 3 months. Thats why I said I would sell at 30, i think in a couple of weeks 25 will be a reasonable price, and I can put off playing with him till then.
If they don't short-print it then the market will get flooded with snapcaster mages, and they'll dip in value. When solemn Simulacrum peaked it was about 5 tix/ea. Now you can pick them up for 2.5
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first set of the last 3 blocks-
Shards of Alara:
Elspeth (alternate win condition in white midrange/control decks), Ethersworn Canonist (sideboard against combo), Fatestitcher (Vintage Dredge enabler), Tezzeret the Seeker (Vintage tutor/engine/win condition), Ad Nauseam (enabler for ANT decks, also ANC in Modern but that deck hasn't proven itself), Elvish Visionary (draw in Legacy/Modern Elves), Wild Nacatl (Zoo, current baseline 1 drop aggro creature, got Mental Misstep banned in Modern), Bant Charm (Modern PT finalist), Blightning (burn/discard in Modern), Empyrial Archangel (reanimation target), Esper Charm (Modern draw/discard/removal), Rhox War Monk (anti-aggro staple), Tidehollow Sculler (tutorable Modern WB discard/threat), Relic of Progenitus (anti-graveyard option)
Zendikar:
Iona (reanimation target, lock piece), Mindbreak Trap (anti-combo), Spell Pierce (major Vintage counterspell), Vampire Hexmage (got Dark Depths banned in Modern), Goblin Guide (mono-red 1 drop), Punishing Fire (removal/burn engine in Modern), Pyromancer Ascension (engine in Modern, helped get Preordain, Ponder, and Rite of Flame banned in Modern), Lotus Cobra (mana accel in Vintage), Expedition Map (tutor for Cloudpost/Vesuva/Glimmerpost, helped get Cloudpost banned in Modern), fetchlands (mana fixing in all formats), Valakut (got itself banned in Modern)
Scars of Mirrodin:
Memnite (0 cost creature with power for Affinity), Mox Opal (free artifact mana for Affinity), Galvanic Blast (R for 4 for Modern Affinity), Nihil Spellbomb (anti-graveyard), Myr Battlesphere (Tinker target, obsoleted by Blightsteel Colossus like every other non-Time Vault Tinker target), Steel Hellkite (Tinker target), Precursor Golem (sees some play in Vintage Workshops), Sword of Body and Mind (extra Stoneforge Mystic target against Merfolk, Tarmogoyf), Glimmerpost (got Cloudpost banned in Modern)
What does that mean for Innistrad? Who knows. Snapcaster Mage, Liliana, Past in Flames all have potential. Skaab Ruinator seems promising, but probably not going to find a spot with Tarmogoyf and Knight in older formats. Harvest Pyre might see play as a way for mono-red to kill big goyfs and knights with 1 card; probably not, but it's a possibility.
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Stretching majorly on Myr Battlesphere and Steel Hellkite and some of the other targets. The majority of cards you listed see niche play, not dominating play.
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On September 24 2011 04:12 Judicator wrote:
Stretching majorly on Myr Battlesphere and Steel Hellkite and some of the other targets. The majority of cards you listed see niche play, not dominating play.
Exactly, and I'm not sure what "Wild Nacatl (Zoo, current baseline 1 drop aggro creature, got Mental Misstep banned in Modern)" is supposed to mean... Wild nacatl wouldn't see nearly as much play if misstep was legal, but wotc want people to play with certain cards. Which is ridiculous and not an argument for a card. Like wow, if you ban the best counter to a card, that card becomes much better. Shocking.
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United States2822 Posts
On September 24 2011 04:12 Judicator wrote:
Stretching majorly on Myr Battlesphere and Steel Hellkite and some of the other targets. The majority of cards you listed see niche play, not dominating play.
Myr Battlesphere is still used over Blightsteel in some cases in Vintage Tinker. Steel Hellkite is a bit of a stretch, though.
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How many of you guys are signed up for the prerelease? I'm so stoked for it, I know a lot of people dislike the Sealed format but I've always had pretty good experiences with it. I know it depends on the packs but I'd love to build G/R Werewolf.
Could Instigator Gang and Kruin Outlaw scream "LIMITED" any more? I think Innistrad packs are a little bit different, there will ALWAYS be a double-faced card and that card has a chance to be any rarity - regardless of the original. I'm sure we'll all be craving the sacred grail of Random Foil Mythic+Mythic Rare+Garruk.
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United States4890 Posts
On September 24 2011 03:21 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2011 01:47 DCLXVI wrote:
Wow, that was not a discussion I was expecting. I was just mentioning how I don't think a rare can stay 30$ not matter how good it is in the first set of a block. People will be drafting and cracking Innistrad packs for the next 9? months, there is no way the demand can stay high enough for that. IMO the mage will jump to 35 maaaaaaybe 40 on the day of prerelease/release, then down to 25-28 and trickle down from there until it hits 20-22 in 3 months. Thats why I said I would sell at 30, i think in a couple of weeks 25 will be a reasonable price, and I can put off playing with him till then. If they don't short-print it then the market will get flooded with snapcaster mages, and they'll dip in value. When solemn Simulacrum peaked it was about 5 tix/ea. Now you can pick them up for 2.5
You're talking about MTGO prices though, Solemn is a $10 card in real life. Modo usually has lower prices because of the constant drafting and constant selling to bots, which results in a flooded economy. In paper Magic, cards don't drop in price as fast because there isn't as much saturation.
Anyway, I agree that it's hard to imagine a rare stabilizing in price over $20. I think it will dip to around $15 assuming it's a staple in Standard, much less if it isn't, and the value may eventually climb after Innistrad block if it sees play in Legacy. The only reason he is so expensive right now is because the rares in this set look so weak, and he stands out.
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Played against a guy in the draft that opened a foil Garruk, landed him on turn 4 2/3 games, and never got to use an ability other than his fight because the new Garruk is terrible.
I opened the worst sealed pool in the history of mankind, though, so it didn't matter. Plus drawing 10 lands in a row is cool.
I had 2 Slayer of the Wicked's which was pretty much my best card. I had a Bloodline Keeper that I couldn't play because all I had in black was the 1 drop deathtouch, 2 zombies, the zombie lord that depends on the number of zombies you have (2), and a couple unplayables.
Not to mention there were 86 people in a tiny card shop playing on the floor/warhammer tables and it was over 100 degrees thanks to shitty AC. I just dropped.
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That sounds horrifying. But about Garruk, just as a 4 mana green removal it's still kinda okay. Plus potential upside.
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On September 25 2011 06:24 slyboogie wrote:
That sounds horrifying. But about Garruk, just as a 4 mana green removal it's still kinda okay. Plus potential upside.
He traded it for a pump spell both times. This one to be specific.
He had a turn 5 Bloodgift Demon every game, though, and Slayer of the Wicked doesn't kill him, so I was just fucked until he made a grevious misplay and attacked even though I didn't freaking tap it to walk right into a Rebuke. The 2 games he didn't do that were the ones I lost (surprise surprise).
Oh and take this at face value:
Every person that I walked by, sat next to, played, or played against had at least a white splash if not playing white mainly.
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Innistrad may suck for Standard with Scars block still in the mix, but holy cow. The pre-release (played 5 rounds of sealed and an 8-man draft afterwards) was the most fun I've ever had in any MTG limited.
I was really worried at first, but Wizards really did an amazing job
EDIT: When Garruk was spoiled, I thought he was terrible. After seeing him played on a few tables...he's just beyond awful.
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Funnily enough the guy who won first place at my store (there were 35 people) ran black/red vampires/werewolves. Granted he did crack the mythic red/black legend.
I have got to say this was the most dynamic limited set I have played in so far. The other sets I have played in (I am looking at you Scars) had very small amount of viable archetypes that were runnable.
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Snapcaster Mage is so sickkkkkkkk
Past in Flames is even sickerrrrrrr
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You guys are crazy. Garruk is very good in limited assuming you're not just running him out there as your first play of the game on turn 4. If you have any backup for him at all, you immediately nuke a 1 or 2 power creature and you're so far ahead.
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On September 25 2011 23:40 Jaksiel wrote:
You guys are crazy. Garruk is very good in limited assuming you're not just running him out there as your first play of the game on turn 4. If you have any backup for him at all, you immediately nuke a 1 or 2 power creature and you're so far ahead.
If you have a perfect deck and your opponent plays into it, yeah, he's nice. The problem is that this format has a ton of pump spells/combat tricks, plenty of damage spells that do 2 or more, and plenty of ways to get through. There are much better bombs anyway, having a Bloodline Keeper turn 4 will win you 100x more games than Garruk. Same goes for a turn 4 Olivia. Don't get me started on turn 5/6 bombs.
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Is Innistrad going to be released on Magic Online on September 30 as well or is there going to be a delay?
I missed yesterday's prerelease because of work and I am going to miss today's as well due to a fantasy hockey draft.
Seems like a mostly positive reaction to the new set from a limited stand point from what I've seen.
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United States4890 Posts
On September 26 2011 00:56 last.resistance wrote:
Is Innistrad going to be released on Magic Online on September 30 as well or is there going to be a delay?
I missed yesterday's prerelease because of work and I am going to miss today's as well due to a fantasy hockey draft.
Seems like a mostly positive reaction to the new set from a limited stand point from what I've seen.
There's always a delay; I believe Innistrad will be legal on MtGO on the 16th, and prerelease events will begin on the 17th. "Release" events probably a week or two after that.
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EPT
