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Chrispy

Canada5878 Posts

August 04 2010 03:11 GMT

#10141

Hmm well 60% AP from MR doesn't seem that good. Realistically people will only get maybe 2 MR items max, usually only one unless it's a heavy caster team (which there happens to be a lot of now, so who knows.)

Mercury Treads, Banshees and FoN will give like 200ish magic resist? So 120 AP or so. Meh. And if his skills scale a lot with AP then perhaps just an AP build would work better.

Obviously I don't have any clue what I'm talking about though, just theorycrafting for fun because the servers are down.

Ohh but abyssal scepter will be sick on him for sure.

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

August 04 2010 03:23 GMT

#10142

On August 04 2010 12:11 Chrispy wrote:
Mercury Treads, Banshees and FoN will give like 200ish magic resist? So 120 AP or so. Meh. And if his skills scale a lot with AP then perhaps just an AP build would work better.

free z-ring worth of AP for making yourself unkillable seems alright by me :p

Abyssal! I dunno, I honestly am a little tired of this formula for passives... I really kinda like that LoL doesn't pigeonhole champs with str/agi/int system, but doing shit like this with synergistic stat gains (Vlad, Kayle, Jax, Rammus, now this guy) makes building a lot more straightforward.

oberon

United States1320 Posts

August 04 2010 03:38 GMT

#10143

MR is 15.4 cash per point (negatron). AP is 20 cash per point (NLR). 60% from MR means paying 25.666 cash per point of AP via MR, which is pretty bad on its own, obviously (amp tome is 21.75 cash per AP, for example -- 1.75 more cash per point than NLR, while going through MR on this guy is an additional 4+ over amp tome).

That, however, is a retarded view, because it's ignoring the benefit of the MR. Of *course* stacking negatrons won't be more efficient than stacking NLRs for AP!

If, however, you look at it as a freebie, a negatron cloak for example gives you 28.8AP, which is 576 cash-worth at the rate of 20 established by NLR. That is super-insane-huge. Mercury's Treads, which give only 25 MR, still give you 300 cash worth of AP -- that's 1/4 of their total price, and they're not even a good example. Want a good example?

Abyssal scepter costs 2650. It gives 70 AP and 57 MR. At the rates established above, that's 1400 cash-worth of AP and 878.75 cash-worth of MR -- you're paying 371.25 cash for the passive. However, with this passive, the MR will give you an additional 34.2 AP -- or 684 cash-worth. You are now paying NEGATIVE 312.75 cash for the passive.

The first build I'd try on this guy is chalice->treads->abyssal->zhonya. That gives you great mana regen, great magic resist (112+base=142!), great CC-resist, and 344AP. You have to worry about DPS, sure, but no one's perfect.

Edit: and while I do all the math, two other people say "hey, abyssal might be good." Bah.

Edit II: Check out Spirit Visage + Force of Nature (assuming about 1430HP):

Total cost: 3540
Total MRes: 109
Total Regen: (20 + 40 + 5) * 1.2 = 78 per 5 or 15.6 per tick
Total AP: 65.4 (freebie worth 1308 cash on a 3540 purchase)
Total movement speed: +8%
Total CDR: +12%

That's a rather assorted selection of benefits, so it may not be great, but it's mathematically efficient.

Also, assuming the above chalice->treads->abyssal->zhonya build, I think the next item is GA. The ~70 armor makes DPS much less scary, then toss in the revive, and the fact that it gives you a few more points of AP...

Mogwai

United States13274 Posts

August 04 2010 03:46 GMT

#10144

gasp! an ability that synergizes AP and MRes and 3 people suggest the only non-Lichbane item that provides both. that is an AMAZING coincidence :p

oberon

United States1320 Posts

August 04 2010 03:54 GMT

#10145

On August 04 2010 12:46 Mogwai wrote:
gasp! an ability that synergizes AP and MRes and 3 people suggest the only non-Lichbane item that provides both. that is an AMAZING coincidence :p

It's been like 5 pages since someone mentioned this, and when I was typing my post, no one had mentioned abyssal. It's not that it was some super secret build, just that everyone started talking about it WHILE I WAS TYPING that was annoying.

FlameSworD

United States414 Posts

August 04 2010 04:04 GMT

#10146

not gettin e on olaf is a crime :O

Phrost

United States4008 Posts

August 04 2010 04:14 GMT

#10147

I hope they make some League of Legends t-shirts soon. I need to balance out my other gaming shirts with something from Riot.

oberon

United States1320 Posts

August 04 2010 04:19 GMT

#10148

On August 04 2010 13:04 FlameSworD wrote:
not gettin e on olaf is a crime :O

If you get an early giant's belt, a pumped W hits pretty hard. It's good for grabbing golems/turrets, especially.

red_

United States8474 Posts

August 04 2010 04:47 GMT

#10149

On August 04 2010 12:23 Mogwai wrote:
I honestly am a little tired of this formula for passives...

I agree, it's really a boring system and it creates this very fine tip-toe line for balancing, where it feels like a champ gets just a slight nudge and can become OP because that nudge allows them to snowball and fuel the passive more, or they just start in a deep hole because base stats are shit in compensation for a potentially amazing amount of power from their passive.

Shikyo

Finland33997 Posts

August 04 2010 05:26 GMT

#10150

On August 04 2010 11:09 Jawa~ wrote:
IMO it is a waste to level up Nasus' Q before his E.

I go QWEEER etc. Especially in a 1v2 lane because it allows you to farm super easily without being harassed.

I run mp5/level runes in blues and they are enough to let me lane efficiently.

Myopia / Ruken I think you guys misunderstand his role / his strengths. He is best as a strong TANK farmer. Sheen is good on him, but the mana crystal is a waste to open with, and far behind a dorans shield in utility. 400 gold is not a lot of money, especially on a char that has no problem farming.

I build him dorans > boots (merc usually) > aegis > phage > trinity, allows for a lot of survivability and a good damage output for mid-late game, which is when nasus really starts to shine.

Normally a low level of E is enough for the zoning. If I don't need it I don't max it, although normally I get lvl 2 or 3 of E before leveling Q up from lvl 1. The cooldown reduction helps a lot with building the stacks and it actually hits like a truck. You might be able to get a kill on a squishie when your Q hits for half their hp.

The skill order for Q and E completely depends on how my laning is going. The standard rule is, the easier the lane is, the faster you level up Q.

On August 04 2010 12:11 Chrispy wrote:
Hmm well 60% AP from MR doesn't seem that good. Realistically people will only get maybe 2 MR items max, usually only one unless it's a heavy caster team (which there happens to be a lot of now, so who knows.)

Mercury Treads, Banshees and FoN will give like 200ish magic resist? So 120 AP or so. Meh. And if his skills scale a lot with AP then perhaps just an AP build would work better.

Obviously I don't have any clue what I'm talking about though, just theorycrafting for fun because the servers are down.

Ohh but abyssal scepter will be sick on him for sure.

mres/lvl seals quints and glyphs too.

He's an anti-mage tank or something it seems. Actually fairly interesting for once, gj there Riot.

mrgerry

United States1508 Posts

August 04 2010 05:57 GMT

#10151

Sorry little late on Olaf talk but this is few things on how I use him:

Jungle Olaf: 21/0/9 attackspeed magicresist/lvl runes
Cloth armor - 5 pots
Go Q first for lvl 1 golem or W first if u start at wraiths to get lvl 2 prior to golem
After that focus r > q > w > e. E is a great skill but im looking to jungle as fast as possible and putting points in q does that. Plus it makes chasing during ganks easier with the slow scaling on q. As for items it's really up to you after the cloth armor since it just depends on what ur team needs. I personally like Lantern - Mallet - Atmas. Lantern just makes doing dragon so much easier and makes jungle smooth and fast all game. In terms of stats lantern is an efficient item and the ward is just a tacked on passive like malady that u dont pay any gold for in terms of efficiency. Still working out different builds since I'd like to get a ghostblade/ie type of combo at one point while being tanky and olaf jungles fine w/o lantern but relies on golem which gets annoying.

Lane olaf:
I dont do this often since no one fucking jungles ever and its such a benefit to the team but when I do i just dont level q at all. Full focus on r > e > w > q and go tank items or ghostblade - mallet - atmas/ie style build. It's hard to really give a standard item build since it varies but mallet is a pretty key item on olaf.

As for Nasus hes just an anti-carry and shouldn't be the one jumping in first etc. Just find a nice position to jump on carry and chase him out of fight/kill him. Don't lvl q past 1 early its scaling is just awful and the cd isnt all that worth it. Always focus E for the armor reduction. I rarely get sheen/trinity as its only a meager boost and im more helpful to the team being tankier and make use of my natural damage.

Deleted User 30223

3104 Posts

August 04 2010 06:13 GMT

#10152

wow. this week's rotation is just full of high tier people. lol. amumu ez garen ryze ww. sion and sivir are bitches to play against. pantheon is meh. janna and kayle i haven't played a whole lot against so i'm not sure. but dang. too bad i'm going to a retreat for 4 days this week. i would have had a lot of fun.

New Zealand6138 Posts

August 04 2010 06:33 GMT

#10153

I'm late here, but

On August 04 2010 06:03 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
The champ that I currently have the hardest time dealing with is Garen, with an honorable mention to Olaf. Anyone else think that they're too powerful lategame?

I must be terrible because no matter how I play Garen he seems like a bad Xin Zhao (and I fucking LOVE Garen, I downloaded LoL solely to play him), but I always see people talk about how often he shows up in high ELO. What makes him so damn good, what am I missing? I feel like his damage is bad and his initiation is worse than Xin's.. but people play him at high ranks and talk of him highly so I guess I just don't get it. Is it just that he can tank/silence/execute?

Also this thread won't be closed unless people start posting like shit or off-topic (remember that this thread is not your personal instant messenger). You'll also be warned/banned for personal insults so keep the shit talk in-game thx.

rwrzr

United States1980 Posts

August 04 2010 06:35 GMT

#10154

THIS seems to be on topic with the AP Discussion

I really am curious as to how 1) Archaic Knowledge (15% Ignore) works with 2) Void Staff (40% penetrate), 3) Abyssal Scepter(Reduce by 20), and 4) Mpen Items/runes.

What I'm really after is do the flat get taken off first then the %? OR Do % reduction come off first?

Just curious I feel stupid for asking.

EDIT: @ H because I feel bad for double posting. Garen has a strong early game presence with his skillset. You should be able to get kills/assists and farm with relative ease. Those 2 combined make it so that Garen SHOULD always stay strong and end up in a good position for late game. This being said straight tank Garen doesn't seem to be the most ideal route. 1 or 2 DPS items means they can't ignore you.

His Passive health regen and free MR and Armor gains also help.

rredtooth

5464 Posts

August 04 2010 06:38 GMT

#10155

On August 04 2010 15:33 H wrote:
I'm late here, but

Show nested quote +

pretty much. he's hard to kill, does decent AoE dps, has a pretty crucial silence, ult is solid, decent laner, etc. he doesn't show up THAT often in high Elo. i still think he's a lower tier hero. that is, unless he got a huge buff while i was away?

btw i dare you guys to poke your head into the SC2 forum. it's a lost cause.

ZERG_RUSSIAN

10417 Posts

August 04 2010 06:41 GMT

#10156

Here's a common misconception that I just had an argument about:

(Also, I want to apologize, I just hate it when people try to rage me while I'm already mad. But I was still correct.)

If you queue with someone, your Elo gets slightly boosted. That does NOT mean that you will queue with better players. If anything, you'll probably queue with worse players, but AGAINST better players. Why? Think about it. If you're both 1500 and you get +20 for duo queue, you both get kicked up to 1510. Assume that the average from all 5 on both teams is 1500. You will queue with one 1480 and two 1500s, assuming you're the only two duo queueing.

Now, take a situation where you have one 1550 queuing with a 1480. Your average is 1525, the team will either A) be lower to compensate, B) queue against enemies that are higher Elo, or C) a combination of both.

This is why I hate duo queueing with someone who's not exactly my rank.

Shikyo

Finland33997 Posts

August 04 2010 06:47 GMT

#10157

This rotation is sooooo good! I've wanted to play as Ezreal, Garen, Sion, Warwick, Amumu and Pantheon

On August 04 2010 15:33 H wrote:
I'm late here, but

Show nested quote +

Let's just say that Q -> auto-autoattack -> E -> finishing autoattack or after lvl 6 R = fucktons of damage without items and then add in the damage reduction from W.

red_

United States8474 Posts

August 04 2010 06:53 GMT

#10158

On August 04 2010 15:38 redtooth wrote:
I still think he's a lower tier hero. that is, unless he got a huge buff while i was away?

He can use all of his skills during Judgement now, I haven't played him/against him since seeing this patch note though so I'm not sure if it's a HUGE buff(like, he can actually ult someone or silence them even while spinning), or if it's just that he can now throw the decisive strike speed buff on mid spin instead of before he starts. If it's the latter that's not much of a change.