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On January 29 2013 15:44 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 09:22 Sufficiency wrote:
The thing about RA to keep in mind is that the amount of beakers granted equals half the median of cost of technologies that you can research. So you should research some cheap techs before your RA is about to be finished to shift your median up. Alternatively, having some expensive techs also shift your median up.
IMO it's not that useful for scientific victory (if you are behind, RA makes you even more behind; if you are ahead, it's too expensive and you don't need to be even further ahead). For diplomatic victory it is absolutely required that you do this though (chances are, you will have tons of gold lying around anyway). Your advice is way off here. RA's don't work like that anymore, they give something like 6 turns worth of beakers based on the average science output of both civs in the RA. Also, when they did work the way you described, they were the ONLY important part of a scientific/cultural victory. Actual research didn't matter. That's why they nerf to RA's was implemented, but even now, having RA's up with everybody is crucial if you want to win on science at higher difficulties.
Oh wtf. Wtf have I been playing.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
RAs are really really important for science victory at higher difficulties, at least if you didn't conquer yourself tensome cities to do research for you. It actually makes sense to go peace route, get as many friends and RAs as possibly and profit (at least on Immortal, possibly on Deity if you have a really good starting location).
Also, about the tier list, I'd reccomend to move Egypt up one, their temples give +2 happy, which makes it way easier to recover after doing religion REX with Piety opener, and just in case you want to go tall the wonder build speed helps with Stonehenge/Petra/Oracle. Also, you don't necessarily need construction, depending on terrain, because War Chariots. It's really good.
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Damn. Emperor -> Immortal and it feels like a completely different game.
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I have finally beat deity for my 5th time without abusing things like stealing workers from City States. I've been doing ICS strategies without abusing Mayans, mainly based around gold and buying out city states along with early DoWing neighbors.
Also using the 4 city tradition starters but those are way easier to execute IMO. I only play for Domination victories, I get bored without war.
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On January 29 2013 19:28 Sufficiency wrote:
Damn. Emperor -> Immortal and it feels like a completely different game.
If you want some tips just PM me, I won many times in Immortal now and getting ready for my first Deity game. Maybe I can help you.
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On January 29 2013 19:28 Sufficiency wrote:
Damn. Emperor -> Immortal and it feels like a completely different game.
Agree, but it also depends on what settings you start the game on. I like fairly large maps with few city states and many civs. This makes the game 10x harder. Anyone can win on deity on a small map with a million city states and few opponents.
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On January 29 2013 19:40 Kamikiri wrote:
I have finally beat deity for my 5th time without abusing things like stealing workers from City States. I've been doing ICS strategies without abusing Mayans, mainly based around gold and buying out city states along with early DoWing neighbors.
Also using the 4 city tradition starters but those are way easier to execute IMO. I only play for Domination victories, I get bored without war.
Can you explain the 4 city Tradition starter or link A guide on it?
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I find that immortal is really only materially different from emperor during the first 150 turns or so. During that time, you're going to be playing from behind. There is also far less margin for error if you do things like neglect your defense. After the first 150 turns, you just have to have the game sense to see and commit to a path to victory. Runaway civ management is perhaps the most important skill in this regard, because you can get buried very quickly on immortal.
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Only played full game so far... If you could call it that? 160 turns.
Anyways, is there a way to check the attack range on your trebuchets? So many times I got screwed over cause I thought they were in range, then set up for an attack, then turns out theyre still out of range T_T
Also, it got to the point where I was still using trebuchets and my commanders were in jeeps rofl. Love it.
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United States12240 Posts
On January 30 2013 03:01 Emnjay808 wrote:
Only played full game so far... If you could call it that? 160 turns.
Anyways, is there a way to check the attack range on your trebuchets? So many times I got screwed over cause I thought they were in range, then set up for an attack, then turns out theyre still out of range T_T
Also, it got to the point where I was still using trebuchets and my commanders were in jeeps rofl. Love it.
Hills and mountains block line of sight, but if there are no hills or mountains in a particular direction then the range for a trebuchet is 2 hexes. I believe artillery are the first unit that can not only shoot 3 hexes but also have indirect fire (can fire anywhere in range provided they have another unit spotting for them).
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Trebuchets and Catapults have range 2, but the way the game works is:
if you ARE NOT on a hill, then you cant shoot over forests and hills, so if you are in the middle of non-hilly jungle you can shoot only 1 tile
if you ARE on a hill, then you CAN shoot over forests and hills. If you are in the middle of jungle but on top of a hill, you can shoot 2 tiles.
as for the tiles you can get to in 2 moves from 2 directions (like going SW - NW or NW - SW getting you to that same tile), then you can shoot at it if ONE of the paths if flatland. Both would have to be forests/hills to block your line of sight.
Even on top of a hill, you can't shoot over mountains (D'OH)
Your cities follow different rules, they can shoot 2 tiles away no matter what (even over mountains. Powerful city defenders those are)
vvv Yes, you can get the extra range from a 4th promotion I believe. It's like the #1 reason for me to go honor, go train your composite bows on enemy units, get extra range, then go conquering on with 3 range crossbows. Haven't done that on higher difficulty levels, but it's something quite fun :3
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On January 30 2013 03:08 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 03:01 Emnjay808 wrote:
Only played full game so far... If you could call it that? 160 turns.
Anyways, is there a way to check the attack range on your trebuchets? So many times I got screwed over cause I thought they were in range, then set up for an attack, then turns out theyre still out of range T_T
Also, it got to the point where I was still using trebuchets and my commanders were in jeeps rofl. Love it. Hills and mountains block line of sight, but if there are no hills or mountains in a particular direction then the range for a trebuchet is 2 hexes. I believe artillery are the first unit that can not only shoot 3 hexes but also have indirect fire (can fire anywhere in range provided they have another unit spotting for them).
Longbow(England only) have 3 range, And I'm not sure but I think they can get the indirect fire upgrade if you promote them enough.
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On January 30 2013 02:16 Trotske wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 19:40 Kamikiri wrote:
I have finally beat deity for my 5th time without abusing things like stealing workers from City States. I've been doing ICS strategies without abusing Mayans, mainly based around gold and buying out city states along with early DoWing neighbors.
Also using the 4 city tradition starters but those are way easier to execute IMO. I only play for Domination victories, I get bored without war. Can you explain the 4 city Tradition starter or link A guide on it?
The 4-city tradition starter is more of a goal than a strategy. The idea is to have built 4 cities (including the capital) and the national college by turn 100, while getting only tradition tree social policies to fuel vertical growth in your four-city core. There isn't really set research path or build order. Circumstances dictate what you research and what you build. Now, if you are familiar with the game, you should understand that this is a lot of shit to build in 100 turns -- particularly because you have to build some defense, too (or get invaded). The trick is to prioritize your tech path and city placement to unlock luxury and strategic resources so that you can access them, and then immediately sell them to other AI's, which then allows you to rush-buy archers, workers, settlers, and libraries as needed (you will pretty much always rush buy the library in the fourth city). In terms of defense, you minimally need 2 warriors and at least one archer per city. Adjust upwards if you have an aggressive neighbor, and be sure to take oligarchy early in that case. Once the NC is built, you will be well-positioned to power into the mid game and pursue a number of different strategies, including warmongering and horizontal expansion.
Beyond building the initial worker and scout in your capital, what you build afterwards is very flexible. You typically will have an opportunity to build 1 building before you build a settler. Never build a monument. Instead, consider a shrine or a granary. If you have a coastal start, you will likely build workboats. It all depends upon what will give you the most bang for the buck early.
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On January 29 2013 17:40 Scip wrote:
RAs are really really important for science victory at higher difficulties, at least if you didn't conquer yourself tensome cities to do research for you. It actually makes sense to go peace route, get as many friends and RAs as possibly and profit (at least on Immortal, possibly on Deity if you have a really good starting location).
Also, about the tier list, I'd reccomend to move Egypt up one, their temples give +2 happy, which makes it way easier to recover after doing religion REX with Piety opener, and just in case you want to go tall the wonder build speed helps with Stonehenge/Petra/Oracle. Also, you don't necessarily need construction, depending on terrain, because War Chariots. It's really good.
OK I tried this again and it felt really, REALLY good. I've known about Burial Tombs in theory, but I used to have a hard time with it because temples build so slowly..... but the Piety starter solves this problem. It's brilliant.
On January 30 2013 03:51 Scip wrote:
Trebuchets and Catapults have range 2, but the way the game works is:
if you ARE NOT on a hill, then you cant shoot over forests and hills, so if you are in the middle of non-hilly jungle you can shoot only 1 tile
if you ARE on a hill, then you CAN shoot over forests and hills. If you are in the middle of jungle but on top of a hill, you can shoot 2 tiles.
as for the tiles you can get to in 2 moves from 2 directions (like going SW - NW or NW - SW getting you to that same tile), then you can shoot at it if ONE of the paths if flatland. Both would have to be forests/hills to block your line of sight.
Even on top of a hill, you can't shoot over mountains (D'OH)
Your cities follow different rules, they can shoot 2 tiles away no matter what (even over mountains. Powerful city defenders those are)
vvv Yes, you can get the extra range from a 4th promotion I believe. It's like the #1 reason for me to go honor, go train your composite bows on enemy units, get extra range, then go conquering on with 3 range crossbows. Haven't done that on higher difficulty levels, but it's something quite fun :3
Right. For this reason, you should never settle a city on the frontier that is on a plain and surrounded by hills. If there are two hill tiles in a line from your city on a plain, ranged attackers can attack for free. I learned this the hard way.
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So I finally beat a game of Civ 5. And holy shit...
I knew this game would be a time sink, but goddamn, I spent almost 6 hours trying to finish my game. So fun too, at the end I was just spamming shit to get researched (w/e was suggested). I got super impatient and just right clicked all my riflemen into the cities lol, and it eventually worked.
But at the end, I feel like I got a bad ending. Saying I convulsed the world in war. Isnt that what ur supposed to do? What are the other win conditions to this game?
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On January 30 2013 12:10 Emnjay808 wrote:
So I finally beat a game of Civ 5. And holy shit...
I knew this game would be a time sink, but goddamn, I spent almost 6 hours trying to finish my game. So fun too, at the end I was just spamming shit to get researched (w/e was suggested). I got super impatient and just right clicked all my riflemen into the cities lol, and it eventually worked.
But at the end, I feel like I got a bad ending. Saying I convulsed the world in war. Isnt that what ur supposed to do? What are the other win conditions to this game?
It is possible to win peacefully without fighting a single war, if that's what you are thinking. Domination victory is only one of the ways to win.
Frankly I find domination victory the most tedious way to win and I almost never even try to do it (unless I am playing on marathon, in which case will be the ONLY way I will try to win with).
Other ways to win:
1. Science. Tech up and build the spaceship and win.
2. Culture. Complete 5 different social policies and build the utopia project (which isn't that time consuming) to win.
3. Diplomacy. Tech up to United Nations and win with a vote (usually involves allying with as many city states as you can get.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
About the tradition 4 city opening, here's the guide: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=468487
Yeah, as mentioned, the idea is to settle near resources, sell them immediately, sell embassies and borrow money (you can give AI 2gpt, they will give you 45 gold flat) to get settlers and/or workers up extremely quickly. You can open similiar to that with Liberty and get more than 4 cities, I generally like that only with cities that have some bonuses towards wide empires, for example France.
One thing to note, the only bad effect of having unhappy people (until your unhappiness reaches 10) is that your cities grow 75% slower. Often it's a good idea to settle a lot of cities and sell luxuries until you are down to 9 unhappiness and then recover from there, when your sold luxuries come back 30 turns later and maybe with some happiness buildings/trade routes/religion.
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New laptop and finally able to watch fully animated leaders... what a crock. Should have spend the development time on micro and gameplay features and kept the IV graphics albeit sharper.
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OK I beat a game on immortal. It was quite hard I should say.
I probably slightly cheated. I was playing random on Lakes and I got randomed into Aztec... and I had like 8 lake tiles near me.... although I didn't play particularly well and mismanaged my happiness....
I mostly played defensive, although I did go on the offensive after beelining to chemistry and killed Rome. Near the end of the game I was neighbouring Napoleon, Attila, and Bismark, two of which went Autocracy. Napoleon dowed me around turn 270ish and fought me for 50ish turns, Attila was aggressive against me all game but never dow'ed, and Bismark dow'ed me like 3 time, each time he surrendered after 10 turns, wait 10 turns, then immediately dow'ed me again... this finally stopped after I got a fair peace offer with Napoleon and he immediately dow'ed on Bismark instead.
It was kind of hard fighting two people at the same time, and my experience in fighting in post-modern era is limited. But Napoleon and Bismark did help me a lot in getting my Freedom tree done (I was making less than 100 culture per turn naturally).
Also I only get one uranium per tile? That's a handicap for immortal?
On January 30 2013 14:04 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
New laptop and finally able to watch fully animated leaders... what a crock. Should have spend the development time on micro and gameplay features and kept the IV graphics albeit sharper.
The animations are nice imo (not sure if I am in position to say this though, because I never played the previous civ games). I have almost memorized what Augustus says in introduction now :D
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What a horrific set of neighbors. Then again, you can eat a DoW from just about anyone on immortal. All of the AI's tend to be aggressive, particularly if you have a small military.
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EPT
