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On January 24 2013 08:58 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 07:07 xDaunt wrote:
The Arabs are arguably the strongest civ for the following reasons:
1) Bazaars. This is the best UB in the game, period. If you get the most out of resource trading, each Bazaar that you build is worth thousands of extra gold per game above and beyond a regular market. It is particularly effective at propelling you into the midgame. Combine this with your UA gold bonus passive, and the Arabs have the greatest capacity for wealth generation in the game. Leverage this fully by getting wonders and social policies that reduce gold buy costs.
2) Camel Archers. Who doesn't want a UU that grants military supremacy during the medieval and into the renaissance eras over any civilization that isn't the Mongols? Build a few of these, and you'll be impervious to invasion. Build half a dozen of them, and you'll roll over any opposing civilization. Attacking enemy cities and units with impunity is OP.
3) Double oil component of UA. The double oil bonus basically gives you unlimited oil during the modern era, which you can leverage into the retardedly powerful mass bomber/tank combination in the modern era. Skip the artillery; it's too slow and too vulnerable. Get bombers and tanks so that you can take multiple cities per turn.
4) Desert start bias. So, so good. If you get a desert start, you're basically guaranteed becoming a religious powerhouse if you so choose by taking the +1 faith per desert tile worked pantheon. Oh, don't forget to get Petra.... George Washington says Hello with his Manifest Destiny and uber Minutemen with promos. Hate when I see America on higher difficulty because if they are still around by Industrial they are a force.
"Still" around? I feel that Washington is one of the more aggressive civs in the game.
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The Americans are good, but they have some holes in their game. For one, they don't have any meaningful boost to their early game. Manifest Destiny isn't that great. Minutemen are the best thing that they have going, but they don't show up until the Renaissance. They also don't provide the same degree of military supremacy that camel archers/Keshiks provide. B17s are just glorified bombers. I like playing the Americans because I love building tons of minutemen and then upgrading them all the way up to mech infantry for good warring. However, I wouldn't put them in the same league as other top civs.
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On January 24 2013 08:25 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 03:30 Sn0_Man wrote:
I've played a decent amount of Civ games in general, but I only just got Civ 5. I'm curious as to what Civs you guy like to pick? I tried with France my first game, and while the culture boost was OK (fast policies, mostly, and a bit of territory expansion) I didn't really feel like it was game-changing. The City-State marriage one (Austria?) looks pretty strong, but I'm curious as to what you guys think is fun. I'm talking lower difficulties, although prince turned out wayyyyy too easy (just get every wonder ever and roll people 2 eras behind you). IMO (~emperor difficulty), when your strategy is growing tall, Dutch, India, and Ethiopia are hands down the best. For a wide empire strategy there are more varieties. Here's my personal tier list on pangaea on standard speed. Pangaea is the only map I play on. God tier (almost universally good regardless of spawning position): Ethiopia (Stele OP), Austria (huehue all the CSs are belong to me), China (paper maker and great general bonus), Maya (pyrimads -> science, free GP). 1st tier (might need a little luck in starting location, but otherwise really strong): Dutch (Polder OP), Siam, India, Arabia, Russia, Huns (warriors got upgraded from ruins? GG the closest AI to you). 2nd tier (fairly decent): Aztec, France, Egypt, Rome, Persia, Songhai, Iroquois. 3rd tier (pretty bad; has some obvious flaws): America, Byzantine, Greence, Germany. 4th tier (garbage): Japan, Celts, Spain, Sweden. Carthage, Ottoman, and England are not tiered because I never play them on pangaea.
Gotta say I disagree with your judgement of Germany, Spain and the Celts.
Germany is the worst tier. Their UA is not particularly helpful (and useless if you turn barbs off). Landies are the same as pikemen, just cheaper (not a great benefit) and Panzers come way too late.
Spain is either first or second tier. Get any wonder inside your border and it's very close to OP; discounting they gold you get from it. Tercios are awesome (infantry with bonus vs mounted) and conquistadors are awesome.
I explained the Celts before; if you can manipulate the faith bonus with picts and an early war, you will seriously slingshot yourself into the medieval and renaissance.
There are others but these are my biggest three gripes. Egypt is also pretty bad on immortal and particularly deity where snatching a wonder is near impossible even with the bonus
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I guess I am a little biased against Spain and it should be a bit higher. The problem I have with Spain is that you don't get 500g unless you find the wonder first. After you have found one, it's purely chance as to whether or not you can actually expand there (and for all we know the only wonder you can expand on may be the Old Faithful). Without any kinds of UB, It's the ultimate dice-roll civilization.
I think Egypt is at least decent. The UA is IMO pretty useless; but Egypt can go wide pretty well with Burial Tomb (even better if you have Religious Center). +2 happiness from a classical era building (the temple, no less) feels pretty strong to me, esp. when no other civs in the game (not sure about the DLCs) have UB in ancient/classical that also provides happiness.
Maybe Celts should be in tier 3. I guess I am personally not as annoyed about playing Celts than I do with (say) Japan.
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On January 24 2013 08:56 Dirkinity wrote:
I mostly play on Pangea, are there some better maps with a higher chance of being in some corner alone with alot of room to expand? :D
I normally do random map type and I find that Pangea is the hardest map type by far. Try continents next time, or fractal, IMO the more island on the map the dumber the AI gets.
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Pangaea is not the hardest map because it has stupid amount of mountains and hills which the AI will go full retard mode on. There are a few oceanless maps (e.g. Great Plain) which most of the map is flat and the AI goes absolutely crazy.
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Does the AI know about units and stuff in FoW and react accordingly? (e.g. Going out of their way to avoid an artillery they shouldn't be able to see?)
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On January 25 2013 09:48 MoonBear wrote:
Does the AI know about units and stuff in FoW and react accordingly? (e.g. Going out of their way to avoid an artillery they shouldn't be able to see?)
I am going to guess no. Barbarians, certainly, are not limited by the fog of war. I don't see why AI players are.
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They know but they dont fight that way. Just like they'll DOW you and then march their army into a choke point one unit at a time. Or invade your cities early but because of the way the jungles grow never move their arches close enough to be actually useful in the siege and let you pick off their warriors one at a time. Imo that would be the next thing CIV needs to work on, better combat ai. Maybe see if they can steal ai code from the older hex strategy games like Panzer General. At least in those the ai was never outright suicidal.
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Actually, I think the AI might actually be limited by fog of war. Either that, or there is a bug.
I just encountered the following situation
Tile1 Tile2 Tile3
Tile1: Plain, with my unit; Sweden AI does not have sight of it.
Tile2: Hill, with my unit (blocking Sweden's sight on Tile1.
Tile3: Swedish Scout.
We are not at war.
On the Sweden AI's turn, he moved his scout from Tile3 -> Tile2, then moved back from Tile2 -> Tile3. Normally you cannot move like that. I strongly suspect Sweden tried to move the scout from Tile3 -> Tile1, but upon entering Tile2 he realized that Tile1 was occupied, so he went back.
You can't actually do this as a player. If I was Sweden and tried to order my scout to go Tile3 -> Tile1, it'd be clearly visible that I am not allowed to do it.
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Civilization V: Gold Edition coming soon:
Sid Meier's Civilization V: Gold Edition is the perfect entry point for PC gamers who have yet to experience the famous "just-one-more-turn" addictive gameplay that has made Civilization one of the greatest game series of all time. The package includes Sid Meier's Civilization V, the Gods & Kings Expansion Pack and all of the available add-on content.
http://www.ebgames.ca/pc/games/sid-meiers-civilization-v-gold-edition/315822
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Fuck. I already have Civ5 and G&K, but none of the DLCs.
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hum ... im not on emperror and above like you guys... im at king i can usually win but only one way .im always the second in points ...im doing well (in my opinion ) and stuff im like 100 or 200 points above other civ but theyre is always oen civ above me that is always way stronger than anyone and by a lot of points i can usually kill them with a mass army casue theyre going wonders and ai is stupid in fights but is it normal that theyre is always one computer always so far ahead of everyone ?or am i jsut not doign things right ?but dman he is like doubling ppl in points almost me too
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On January 27 2013 01:11 Diminisherqc wrote:
hum ... im not on emperror and above like you guys... im at king i can usually win but only one way .im always the second in points ...im doing well (in my opinion ) and stuff im like 100 or 200 points above other civ but theyre is always oen civ above me that is always way stronger than anyone and by a lot of points i can usually kill them with a mass army casue theyre going wonders and ai is stupid in fights but is it normal that theyre is always one computer always so far ahead of everyone ?or am i jsut not doign things right ?but dman he is like doubling ppl in points almost me too
For one thing, you're using points as an indicator of performance. Points only really directly correlate with Domination when it comes to victory conditions. If you're going culture, you are more than likely going to be in at least the bottom half of the table.
One big AI per continent is pretty normal, yes. You're job is to take them down before they get that big, or go for a different VC
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On January 27 2013 01:04 Sufficiency wrote:
Fuck. I already have Civ5 and G&K, but none of the DLCs.
Is the DLC any good? I can't actually tell from just the description alone.
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On January 24 2013 10:45 Eishi_Ki wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 08:25 Sufficiency wrote:On January 24 2013 03:30 Sn0_Man wrote:
I've played a decent amount of Civ games in general, but I only just got Civ 5. I'm curious as to what Civs you guy like to pick? I tried with France my first game, and while the culture boost was OK (fast policies, mostly, and a bit of territory expansion) I didn't really feel like it was game-changing. The City-State marriage one (Austria?) looks pretty strong, but I'm curious as to what you guys think is fun. I'm talking lower difficulties, although prince turned out wayyyyy too easy (just get every wonder ever and roll people 2 eras behind you). IMO (~emperor difficulty), when your strategy is growing tall, Dutch, India, and Ethiopia are hands down the best. For a wide empire strategy there are more varieties. Here's my personal tier list on pangaea on standard speed. Pangaea is the only map I play on. God tier (almost universally good regardless of spawning position): Ethiopia (Stele OP), Austria (huehue all the CSs are belong to me), China (paper maker and great general bonus), Maya (pyrimads -> science, free GP). 1st tier (might need a little luck in starting location, but otherwise really strong): Dutch (Polder OP), Siam, India, Arabia, Russia, Huns (warriors got upgraded from ruins? GG the closest AI to you). 2nd tier (fairly decent): Aztec, France, Egypt, Rome, Persia, Songhai, Iroquois. 3rd tier (pretty bad; has some obvious flaws): America, Byzantine, Greence, Germany. 4th tier (garbage): Japan, Celts, Spain, Sweden. Carthage, Ottoman, and England are not tiered because I never play them on pangaea. Gotta say I disagree with your judgement of Germany, Spain and the Celts. Germany is the worst tier. Their UA is not particularly helpful (and useless if you turn barbs off). Landies are the same as pikemen, just cheaper (not a great benefit) and Panzers come way too late. Spain is either first or second tier. Get any wonder inside your border and it's very close to OP; discounting they gold you get from it. Tercios are awesome (infantry with bonus vs mounted) and conquistadors are awesome. I explained the Celts before; if you can manipulate the faith bonus with picts and an early war, you will seriously slingshot yourself into the medieval and renaissance. There are others but these are my biggest three gripes. Egypt is also pretty bad on immortal and particularly deity where snatching a wonder is near impossible even with the bonus
Germany weak? I guess when You turn barbarians off. Otherwise the closest civilization to You is dead. No matter what difficulty You play, no matter what civ it is. It is just dead. Only some super hiper terrain obstacles (like 1 tile acces to them or something can save them). And in that case You just kill someone else.
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On January 27 2013 01:19 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2013 01:04 Sufficiency wrote:
Fuck. I already have Civ5 and G&K, but none of the DLCs. Is the DLC any good? I can't actually tell from just the description alone.
Korea is one of the strongest Civs along with Babylon. Inca, Polynesia and Denmark are all pretty meh.
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On January 27 2013 01:20 Silvanel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 10:45 Eishi_Ki wrote:On January 24 2013 08:25 Sufficiency wrote:On January 24 2013 03:30 Sn0_Man wrote:
I've played a decent amount of Civ games in general, but I only just got Civ 5. I'm curious as to what Civs you guy like to pick? I tried with France my first game, and while the culture boost was OK (fast policies, mostly, and a bit of territory expansion) I didn't really feel like it was game-changing. The City-State marriage one (Austria?) looks pretty strong, but I'm curious as to what you guys think is fun. I'm talking lower difficulties, although prince turned out wayyyyy too easy (just get every wonder ever and roll people 2 eras behind you). IMO (~emperor difficulty), when your strategy is growing tall, Dutch, India, and Ethiopia are hands down the best. For a wide empire strategy there are more varieties. Here's my personal tier list on pangaea on standard speed. Pangaea is the only map I play on. God tier (almost universally good regardless of spawning position): Ethiopia (Stele OP), Austria (huehue all the CSs are belong to me), China (paper maker and great general bonus), Maya (pyrimads -> science, free GP). 1st tier (might need a little luck in starting location, but otherwise really strong): Dutch (Polder OP), Siam, India, Arabia, Russia, Huns (warriors got upgraded from ruins? GG the closest AI to you). 2nd tier (fairly decent): Aztec, France, Egypt, Rome, Persia, Songhai, Iroquois. 3rd tier (pretty bad; has some obvious flaws): America, Byzantine, Greence, Germany. 4th tier (garbage): Japan, Celts, Spain, Sweden. Carthage, Ottoman, and England are not tiered because I never play them on pangaea. Gotta say I disagree with your judgement of Germany, Spain and the Celts. Germany is the worst tier. Their UA is not particularly helpful (and useless if you turn barbs off). Landies are the same as pikemen, just cheaper (not a great benefit) and Panzers come way too late. Spain is either first or second tier. Get any wonder inside your border and it's very close to OP; discounting they gold you get from it. Tercios are awesome (infantry with bonus vs mounted) and conquistadors are awesome. I explained the Celts before; if you can manipulate the faith bonus with picts and an early war, you will seriously slingshot yourself into the medieval and renaissance. There are others but these are my biggest three gripes. Egypt is also pretty bad on immortal and particularly deity where snatching a wonder is near impossible even with the bonus Germany weak? I guess when You turn barbarians off. Otherwise the closest civilization to You is dead. No matter what difficulty You play, no matter what civ it is. It is just dead. Only some super hiper terrain obstacles (like 1 tile acces to them or something can save them). And in that case You just kill someone else.
In terms of the AI, true but we're talking from a human perspective. Germany has next to no advantages over any other Civ at any point in the game
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On January 27 2013 01:19 MoonBear wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2013 01:04 Sufficiency wrote:
Fuck. I already have Civ5 and G&K, but none of the DLCs. Is the DLC any good? I can't actually tell from just the description alone.
If you want new civs then they're worth it. Some people really like the scenarios; I found some fun, some not. IIRC the Wonders expansion was pretty disappointing while Spain/Inca had good replayability.
On January 27 2013 01:11 Diminisherqc wrote:
hum ... im not on emperror and above like you guys... im at king i can usually win but only one way .im always the second in points ...im doing well (in my opinion ) and stuff im like 100 or 200 points above other civ but theyre is always oen civ above me that is always way stronger than anyone and by a lot of points i can usually kill them with a mass army casue theyre going wonders and ai is stupid in fights but is it normal that theyre is always one computer always so far ahead of everyone ?or am i jsut not doign things right ?but dman he is like doubling ppl in points almost me too
Runaway AIs tend to happen more often on island maps, so you may want to try setting the map to Pangaea/Large Continents/Great Plains/etc. if you want to limit them.
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On January 27 2013 01:11 Diminisherqc wrote:
hum ... im not on emperror and above like you guys... im at king i can usually win but only one way .im always the second in points ...im doing well (in my opinion ) and stuff im like 100 or 200 points above other civ but theyre is always oen civ above me that is always way stronger than anyone and by a lot of points i can usually kill them with a mass army casue theyre going wonders and ai is stupid in fights but is it normal that theyre is always one computer always so far ahead of everyone ?or am i jsut not doign things right ?but dman he is like doubling ppl in points almost me too
I used to have a lot of difficulty with this, now I have learned to deal with it better. When this happens it's usually because another AI is playing more aggressive than you do - and you should react by also be more aggressive.
If (say) France/Rome/Iroqois/Spain is going out of control killing other AIs, you should definitely beeline a military tech and prepare to fight him. The best ones are Fertilizer (Cannon), Dynamite (Artillery), and Rockets (Missile Artillery and Mobile SAMs). There is no way you can outgrow him if he has 3 times your territory.
On January 27 2013 01:26 Cel.erity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2013 01:19 MoonBear wrote:On January 27 2013 01:04 Sufficiency wrote:
Fuck. I already have Civ5 and G&K, but none of the DLCs. Is the DLC any good? I can't actually tell from just the description alone. If you want new civs then they're worth it. Some people really like the scenarios; I found some fun, some not. IIRC the Wonders expansion was pretty disappointing while Spain/Inca had good replayability. Show nested quote +On January 27 2013 01:11 Diminisherqc wrote:
hum ... im not on emperror and above like you guys... im at king i can usually win but only one way .im always the second in points ...im doing well (in my opinion ) and stuff im like 100 or 200 points above other civ but theyre is always oen civ above me that is always way stronger than anyone and by a lot of points i can usually kill them with a mass army casue theyre going wonders and ai is stupid in fights but is it normal that theyre is always one computer always so far ahead of everyone ?or am i jsut not doign things right ?but dman he is like doubling ppl in points almost me too Runaway AIs tend to happen more often on island maps, so you may want to try setting the map to Pangaea/Large Continents/Great Plains/etc. if you want to limit them.
IMO runaway AIs are even harder to deal with on Pangaea and Great Plains, because land units are generally slower and space is more limited. Sometimes it's hard to even fight the runaway AI because he is on the other side of the map.
On January 27 2013 01:22 Eishi_Ki wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2013 01:20 Silvanel wrote:On January 24 2013 10:45 Eishi_Ki wrote:On January 24 2013 08:25 Sufficiency wrote:On January 24 2013 03:30 Sn0_Man wrote:
I've played a decent amount of Civ games in general, but I only just got Civ 5. I'm curious as to what Civs you guy like to pick? I tried with France my first game, and while the culture boost was OK (fast policies, mostly, and a bit of territory expansion) I didn't really feel like it was game-changing. The City-State marriage one (Austria?) looks pretty strong, but I'm curious as to what you guys think is fun. I'm talking lower difficulties, although prince turned out wayyyyy too easy (just get every wonder ever and roll people 2 eras behind you). IMO (~emperor difficulty), when your strategy is growing tall, Dutch, India, and Ethiopia are hands down the best. For a wide empire strategy there are more varieties. Here's my personal tier list on pangaea on standard speed. Pangaea is the only map I play on. God tier (almost universally good regardless of spawning position): Ethiopia (Stele OP), Austria (huehue all the CSs are belong to me), China (paper maker and great general bonus), Maya (pyrimads -> science, free GP). 1st tier (might need a little luck in starting location, but otherwise really strong): Dutch (Polder OP), Siam, India, Arabia, Russia, Huns (warriors got upgraded from ruins? GG the closest AI to you). 2nd tier (fairly decent): Aztec, France, Egypt, Rome, Persia, Songhai, Iroquois. 3rd tier (pretty bad; has some obvious flaws): America, Byzantine, Greence, Germany. 4th tier (garbage): Japan, Celts, Spain, Sweden. Carthage, Ottoman, and England are not tiered because I never play them on pangaea. Gotta say I disagree with your judgement of Germany, Spain and the Celts. Germany is the worst tier. Their UA is not particularly helpful (and useless if you turn barbs off). Landies are the same as pikemen, just cheaper (not a great benefit) and Panzers come way too late. Spain is either first or second tier. Get any wonder inside your border and it's very close to OP; discounting they gold you get from it. Tercios are awesome (infantry with bonus vs mounted) and conquistadors are awesome. I explained the Celts before; if you can manipulate the faith bonus with picts and an early war, you will seriously slingshot yourself into the medieval and renaissance. There are others but these are my biggest three gripes. Egypt is also pretty bad on immortal and particularly deity where snatching a wonder is near impossible even with the bonus Germany weak? I guess when You turn barbarians off. Otherwise the closest civilization to You is dead. No matter what difficulty You play, no matter what civ it is. It is just dead. Only some super hiper terrain obstacles (like 1 tile acces to them or something can save them). And in that case You just kill someone else. In terms of the AI, true but we're talking from a human perspective. Germany has next to no advantages over any other Civ at any point in the game
I was about to place Germany at the last tier, then I felt the Germany player may get lucky and get some free units... but tbh barbarian techs are always so behind anyway, so beside the chance to get a few early warriors (which btw doesn't actually help that much), it doesn't really help you much.
But as Eishi_Ki pointed out my tier list does have a lot of flaws. I will rethink some of the placements (particularly Spain, Iroqois, and the Celts).
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EPT
