• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:40
CET 15:40
KST 23:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier7Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon [D] Hacker peak in sc2 ? Liquibets sc2 season 30 Evil Geniuses - shutting down
Tourneys
SC2 iNu's Battles #22 SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Starcraft 2 Advance [G] How to playtest arcade maps [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
List of top players active on ShieldBattery BW General Discussion Cwal.gg not working Rollback Netcode in Brood War Sagi.gg Launcher Released
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck? Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Playlenda
Playlendapro
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10572 users

TL Chess match II - Page 20

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 18 19 20 21 22 46 Next All
Lurker87
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States172 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-21 22:11:54
December 21 2009 22:08 GMT
#381
I don't think I am part of the TL team, since I was so late coming in but I'd still like to add in my thoughts. So, I'm saying Bd4.

+ Show Spoiler +

It makes sense Bd4 is the only sensible move. As I said earlier, Bc5 would lead to ...d6, opening black's c-bishop.

...e5 by black should not be a problem, as it will greatly weaken the d7 pawn, which would make Bc5, as it was noted earlier, a powerful move. Also, given the power of Black's fianchettoed bishop, playing e5 would greatly weaken its influence, and make bringing it back into the game all up to white. Since "our" bishops are already decently placed in common positions found throughout many Sicilian variations, as well as Pirc variations, there would be little reason to move them except if we were to take a more powerful position, such as Bc5, following ...e5. Thus, ...e5 would only weaken black's plans, and have little effect on "our" overall plan.

The only negative effects would be getting the white knight back into play. However, if black were to want his g7-bishop back in play, it would end up releasing our knight in some way.
Arhkangel
Profile Joined August 2007
Argentina769 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-21 22:33:04
December 21 2009 22:30 GMT
#382
On December 22 2009 01:51 jfazz wrote:
My favourite Petrosian game, with narration:


amazing.


HOLY MOTHER OF GOD! I even took a little longer than what King gave us (I paused it as soon as I heard I will give you a chance to try and guess...). That was amazing. I thought he was going to play Ng2. That Queen was making me nervous :p

Back to the game what is wrong with the move i proposed? + Show Spoiler +
Bd2
I works rather well with the line I posted.
Part Time Ninja
Incognito
Profile Joined November 2008
United States2071 Posts
December 21 2009 23:06 GMT
#383
On December 22 2009 07:30 Arhkangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 22 2009 01:51 jfazz wrote:
My favourite Petrosian game, with narration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_ANTdGmGHQ

amazing.


HOLY MOTHER OF GOD! I even took a little longer than what King gave us (I paused it as soon as I heard I will give you a chance to try and guess...). That was amazing. I thought he was going to play Ng2. That Queen was making me nervous :p

Back to the game what is wrong with the move i proposed? + Show Spoiler +
Bd2
I works rather well with the line I posted.


+ Show Spoiler +

I would say that Bd2 is inaccurate because it is too passive. The c1-h6 diagonal is not very critical given that there is a black pawn at f4 and the black knight will soon move. Our dark-squared bishop is not as good a piece as black's, so trading his off would be logical. Challenging black's g7 bishop with Bd4 is more active and trades off one of his good pieces. Bd2 makes our bishop passive while doing nothing to stop his bishop from staying active.
The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy
Lurker87
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States172 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-21 23:14:06
December 21 2009 23:10 GMT
#384
On December 22 2009 07:30 Arhkangel wrote:

Back to the game what is wrong with the move i proposed? + Show Spoiler +
Bd2
I works rather well with the line I posted.


+ Show Spoiler +
Playing Bd2 has multiple problems. First, it takes the bishop out of the advance, decreasing white's attack. Second, it is making e5 more of a viable move for black. This would further box in white's bishop, effectively taking it out of the game. You want you bishops outside pawn chains, and attacking as open diagonals as possible. The other options for the bishop would follow that last idea. Lastly, black's fianchettoed bishop is a key component of his position. He would not want it traded, so challenging it is best.


Blek. It was already explained above me :/ typing on an iPod takes forever
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
December 21 2009 23:42 GMT
#385
I've actually thought out every possibility and I'd have to say Bd4 is forced.
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
jfazz
Profile Joined September 2009
Australia672 Posts
December 22 2009 02:14 GMT
#386
11.Bd4

+ Show Spoiler +
its forced. White trades black's best piece (its his only good one actually). This cements both weak dark and light squares in black's camp, (Black eventually has to play d6 to free high lightsquare bishop, because Ba6 sucks after b3, and then the c-pawn is a target)making a king and pawn endgame easily winning for us. The move ...e5?? fails to Bc5, and forever gives up control of the crucial d5 square, where our knight will eventually find residence. Obviously, I would want to trade light square bishops and give up our darksquare for his remaining knight, once the c-pawn is removed. Black's position is just garbage in anycase.
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
December 22 2009 04:12 GMT
#387
On December 22 2009 11:14 jfazz wrote:
11.Bd4

+ Show Spoiler +
its forced. White trades black's best piece (its his only good one actually). This cements both weak dark and light squares in black's camp, (Black eventually has to play d6 to free high lightsquare bishop, because Ba6 sucks after b3, and then the c-pawn is a target)making a king and pawn endgame easily winning for us. The move ...e5?? fails to Bc5, and forever gives up control of the crucial d5 square, where our knight will eventually find residence. Obviously, I would want to trade light square bishops and give up our darksquare for his remaining knight, once the c-pawn is removed. Black's position is just garbage in anycase.

11. Bd4. Move that obviously sucks the least for our Bishop.
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
Arhkangel
Profile Joined August 2007
Argentina769 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-22 04:50:54
December 22 2009 04:48 GMT
#388
See, I knew it! Hahaha, not but seriously :p awesome explanations.

I guess my vote goes for 11.Bd4

+ Show Spoiler +
So after 11... Bxd4 12.Qxd4 ... What are black's next possible moves? 12... d6 to activate his last Bishop or can he delay that for something more favorable like for example e5? Since his Bishop doesn't really have anywhere to go.
Part Time Ninja
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
December 22 2009 13:01 GMT
#389
It's pretty obvious that 11. Bd4 is best.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
jfazz
Profile Joined September 2009
Australia672 Posts
December 22 2009 13:30 GMT
#390
Arkhangel, if black plays e5, we can just take because its hanging
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
December 22 2009 14:38 GMT
#391
11. Bd4
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
Arhkangel
Profile Joined August 2007
Argentina769 Posts
December 22 2009 15:16 GMT
#392
Yeah sorry bout that I meant + Show Spoiler +
e6, but after looking back that would be a bad move aswell.
Part Time Ninja
jfazz
Profile Joined September 2009
Australia672 Posts
December 22 2009 15:22 GMT
#393
+ Show Spoiler +
against e6, I am playing Rad1 to pin you down to defending the d-file, then e5, followed by Ne4 to d6 with an overwhelming position
Victory needs no explanation, defeat allows none
Misder
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1557 Posts
December 22 2009 16:40 GMT
#394
Wait, Bd4 is a bad idea.
+ Show Spoiler +
After 11.Bd4 11...e5 12.Bc5 12...Re8, black has much better control over the center.


I vote 11. Bc5
+ Show Spoiler +
Sure, it does lead to 11...d6, but it's better than what happens after 11.Bd4 because black cannot play 12...e5.
Whaaaa?
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-22 17:37:28
December 22 2009 17:36 GMT
#395
On December 23 2009 01:40 Misder wrote:
Wait, Bd4 is a bad idea.
+ Show Spoiler +
After 11.Bd4 11...e5 12.Bc5 12...Re8, black has much better control over the center.


I vote 11. Bc5
+ Show Spoiler +
Sure, it does lead to 11...d6, but it's better than what happens after 11.Bd4 because black cannot play 12...e5.


+ Show Spoiler +
What abuot 11. Bc5 d6 12. Ba3 Bxc3 13. bxc3 Qa5 14. Bb4 Qe5? Not very convincing if you ask me. After Bd4 we can pressure the d-pawn. There should be no central pawn break forthcoming from black, or at least it should be expensive.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
Lurker87
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States172 Posts
December 22 2009 17:45 GMT
#396
On December 23 2009 01:40 Misder wrote:
Wait, Bd4 is a bad idea.
+ Show Spoiler +
After 11.Bd4 11...e5 12.Bc5 12...Re8, black has much better control over the center.


I vote 11. Bc5
+ Show Spoiler +
Sure, it does lead to 11...d6, but it's better than what happens after 11.Bd4 because black cannot play 12...e5.


+ Show Spoiler +

I think we've come to a consensus, that 11... e5 would actually hurt black more than help. It makes his d-pawn a backward pawn, makes his g-bishop less powerful, closing its relatively open a1-h8 diagonal. Basically, by moving 11 Bd4, one way or another, we are going to be closing down that g-bishop's powerful diagonal. In fact, that is often the case in games like this. I feel that we could break in quite easily if black decides to take the bishop, so if anything, I predict the game would go 11 Bd4 d6 12 Bxg7 Kxg7 13 Qd4+ Kg8, or perhaps 13... Rf6 with the intent of 14... Qf8. The only problem here would be the lines that could come from playing 14 e5, threatening the rook and, once it moves, the possible 15 e6+. The move that would counter this, off the top of my head, 14... Re6, would end up blocking black's 2nd bishop, making it have to find other means of escaping.

Basically, I think 11 Bd4 allows for the best options. Once we subdue that g7 bishop, our attack will be much more solid.
Mystlord *
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10264 Posts
December 22 2009 17:45 GMT
#397
On December 23 2009 01:40 Misder wrote:
Wait, Bd4 is a bad idea.
+ Show Spoiler +
After 11.Bd4 11...e5 12.Bc5 12...Re8, black has much better control over the center.


I vote 11. Bc5
+ Show Spoiler +
Sure, it does lead to 11...d6, but it's better than what happens after 11.Bd4 because black cannot play 12...e5.

There's a tactical line for White:
+ Show Spoiler +
11. Bd4 e5 12. Bc5 Re8 13. Nb5! (Pawn is tied down or else Qd5+ winning the Rook). From here, White has two excellent pieces that will be hard to boot out of their positions. Nd6 is threatened from White, and the pawn on a7 is threatened, with no logical way for Black to defend it (although taking it right now isn't the best move).

Black would be better off with d6 given that line.
It is impossible to be a citizen if you don't make an effort to understand the most basic activities of your government. It is very difficult to thrive in an increasingly competitive world if you're a nation of doods.
Bill Murray
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States9292 Posts
December 22 2009 19:59 GMT
#398
Bc5
University of Kentucky Basketball #1
Myrmidon
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States9452 Posts
December 22 2009 22:38 GMT
#399
11. Bd4 for sure. Reasons have already been stated by others.
lightman
Profile Joined April 2005
United States731 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-12-23 14:30:41
December 23 2009 14:28 GMT
#400
The amount of tension is increasing with every move

After long, long thought, I play 11... Nf7.

Next voting closes on Friday.



CURRENT POSITION:



DARK BOARD


[image loading]

















GREEN BOARD




[image loading]









JUST PLAYED: 9......Nf7

VOTING CLOSES: FRIDAY


Reversed Board (DARK):

+ Show Spoiler +





[image loading]
[image loading]









Reversed Board (GREEN):

+ Show Spoiler +






[image loading]
[image loading]




Chuck Norris owns the greatest Poker Face of all-time. It helped him win the 1983 WSOP holding just a Get out of Jail Free Monopoloy card, and a green #4 card from the game UNO, against an AAA KK flop and his rival folding AK after Chuck raised him ALL-IN
Prev 1 18 19 20 21 22 46 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Weekly
21:00
#112
IntoTheiNu 1192
WardiTV949
OGKoka 409
Rex148
Liquipedia
Ultimate Battle
21:00
UBE
Soma vs RoyalLIVE!
UltimateBattle 703
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 387
Rex 143
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2335
Jaedong 1347
Shuttle 712
Mini 689
EffOrt 624
BeSt 465
Light 428
actioN 319
ggaemo 269
Larva 253
[ Show more ]
Snow 211
Stork 186
ZerO 183
Rush 172
FanTaSy 164
ProTech159
hero 156
Soma 112
firebathero 106
Sea.KH 63
Sharp 61
sSak 60
Pusan 59
sorry 53
Barracks 35
Bale 35
ToSsGirL 35
Shine 29
Shinee 28
Terrorterran 28
Yoon 27
Free 26
zelot 25
910 19
scan(afreeca) 15
HiyA 13
soO 12
Trap 9
ajuk12(nOOB) 6
Britney 0
Dota 2
Dendi797
BananaSlamJamma220
Counter-Strike
jkaem95
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes397
Other Games
olofmeister1010
hiko686
Lowko424
B2W.Neo323
Fuzer 208
syndereN175
ArmadaUGS118
ToD109
QueenE84
NeuroSwarm32
Railgan29
ViBE24
amsayoshi18
ZerO(Twitch)18
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL126
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 7
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis805
Other Games
• WagamamaTV277
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
2h 20m
Replay Cast
8h 20m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
19h 20m
WardiTV Invitational
21h 20m
YoungYakov vs Lambo
SHIN vs TBD
Percival vs Shameless
Solar vs TBD
OSC
1d 8h
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
PiGosaur Cup
1d 10h
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
5 days
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
IPSL
6 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-06
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.