EPTDo you guys really think I had a chance of winning after 32 ? Should I have brought the rook instead of f3 ???
TL Chess match II - Page 46
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lightman
United States731 Posts
Do you guys really think I had a chance of winning after 32 ? Should I have brought the rook instead of f3 ??? | ||
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jeddus
United States832 Posts
I feel weird, applauding a draw, but as a spectator I am most definitly applauding. | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On January 28 2010 04:00 lightman wrote: ok finished reading all spoilers after an hour. Do you guys really think I had a chance of winning after 32 ? Should I have brought the rook instead of f3 ??? I missed 34. ... h4 and follow ups. The sequence tied down the knight down with some defensive duties that I had not expected. based on the position of the king, I didn't see any chance that we would lose and thought that with the bishop and king, we could tied the king side rook and pawns. The white rook on e6 prevented the black king from seeing any action at all. I thought as long as the knight could occupy one of the black rooks a bit, the c6 pawn would fall without a black king to do the bulk of the work preventing queening. After h4, it was clearly a draw and so it was offered. | ||
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Arhkangel
Argentina769 Posts
This thread is the single most awesome thing that I have done in the last 2 months. It will be fun to have lightman on the team next game bu I will miss jfazz. I am playing 1.d4 as well so this is going to be a more interesting game for me, hopefully I will come out learning a lot about 1.d4 play. I have to start going down light's notes but I will do that tomorrow. J post you tournaments notes before the next match!!! PLEASEEEEEEEE!!! | ||
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Incognito
United States2071 Posts
On January 28 2010 01:22 lightman wrote: 1 e4 c5 + Show Spoiler + I chose sicilian opening, though I originally intended to play Alekhine defense I thought many of the white team wouldn't be well prepared for it and perhaps the game would be over soon on an early blunder. I wanted the game to last long and become interesting for all parts. I discareded 1... e5 cause I'm not a strong 1...e5 player, though lately in some blitz games I'm finding that white is less prepared playing 1. e4 e5 than playing the sicilian, yet the wins I've scored is mostly because of white blundering, and not me doing anything special. 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 d4 cxd4 4 Nxd4 g6 + Show Spoiler + I go with Sicilan Dragon, a very rare opening seen these days famously used by Kasparov to dismantle Anand in their 1995 World Championship Title match. Anand who had exclusively prepared for Kasparov's unbeatable Sicilian Shevenigen, was shocked, unprepared and had no answers against the unexpected Dragon. Then again, normally nobody nowadays (well nobody not GM) plays a good Dragon, and I have an extremely high winning ratio with it. 5 c4! + Show Spoiler + Ok this pissed me off. Not only it alters my plan but it brings up one of the openings I dislike most. It looked like White perhaps didn't want to go through Anand's fate and choses the even more uncommon Marozcy Bind opening, thus avoiding the Dragon/accelerated. Although it was in my home book preparation, this move I didn't expect at all -I mean not to win-, and although I should have knowing that jfazz is a d4 player, it was in the last of my options that white would play. Hmm I'm not all too familiar with the Maroczy bind, but I don't really like the it (well I didn't join the game till move 7?) as it weakens the d4 square and makes the g7 bishop a monster. White is almost forced to play Be3 will eventually have to trade knights, opening the center for black's bishop. White also has to worry about the Bishop for knight trade on c3 if black finds it advantageous to saddle white with doubled isolated pawns. Most likely I'd say it wouldn't be worth it for black, but its still an option that makes me think twice about Nc3 as white. 5. .. Bg7 6 Be3 Nh6 + Show Spoiler + I continue the Marozcy-Bind lines, but I deviate from 6. ...Nf6, chosing instead 6...Nh6 to spice things up a bit and scare the White team. In my experience Marozcy-Bind gives white a slight advantage overall in the opening, and black chances to win are sllim, yet the majority of the games played are drawn. I don't have any percentages but if I'd had to guess most games would be drawn (this is with perfect play from both sides of course) and some won by white due to black weak defending. I plan something new also, maybe f5 looking for exf5 from white something like that 7 Be2 f5! + Show Spoiler + My second trap, if you want to call it that way -the first being my attempt to play the Dragon-. White has many options as most of you appointed, the strongest ones being Nc3 and exf5, the former being a more passive drawish option, and the latter bringing a few automatic moves that open up the game a little bit. (8 exf5 Nxf5; 9 Nxf5 Qa5+ 10 Nc3 QxN). I wanted exf5 to win the vote to open up the game a bit, cause Nc3 would make things a bit more difficult for me. Not really a trap, but it does challenge white's central control. exf5 is clearly inferior here. 8 Nc3 0-0 9 0-0 f4 + Show Spoiler + gosh, white's playing passive. oh well here goes nothing. I keep pressure with the f pawn because now that white castled, it's kind of useless to fight for that square. At this point I know white will follow (or should folllow) with either Bxf4 or Qd2 and even f3. I spent more than an hour trying to decide whether to play f4 or d6, as the game already looks even, so I'm looking for lines to unsettle white. At this point I'm pretty sure of what's coming, something like 10. Nxc6 bxc6, 11 Bd4, 12 BxB, 13 Qd4........ Hmm if you meant f4 to be agressive, I think it does a weak job. f4 forces the trade of knights and dark squared bishops, which pulls the steam out of black's aggression. White is better developed, which means black will have a hard time making aggressive threats. Black's cramped position may call for piece exchanges, but this contradicts Black's desire for an aggressive game. White's pawn on e4 takes away the square for the h6 knight, which will have a hard time getting on the offense. In my opinion, a better offensive try for black would be 9. ... Ng4 10. Bxg4 fxg4, and black has play on the open f-file as well as more options for central/queenside development. Both b6 and d6 come to mind. 10. Nxc6 bxc6 11. Bd4 Nf7 12. BxB KxB + Show Spoiler + so on this move I'm concetrating on mid game moves to find an opening and see if I can find a win. It's hard because there aren't many choices and most of the moves should be automatic for both teams, who with perfect play can easliy draw, and I definetly don't want that. I'm also kicking myself for my opening choice, not going for either the Alekhine or the Schevenigen, as I'll say it again, find a win for black on this game is not going to be easy. 13. Qd2 ? + Show Spoiler + well, I didn't understand this move. I was expecting either the daring c5 or the more profound Qd4+ (that would lead the opening for a premature endgame position after a few exchanges in the middle some 8,10 struggle moves ahead). I considered white's play as passive not taking advantage of the situation and allowing me to regroup my pieces in the current weaken squares such as d6 (where white should have focused its attack, in my opinion). After much thought and essay of many lines (13... d6 leads to disaster as well as Rd8 or Rb8, and Ba6 doesn't accomplish anything) I can't come up with a better move than 13... Qc7. At this point I see the game as even, so I didn't really bother on focusing on what white can play next, especially after having played passively. Qd4+ is useless because of e5. If anything, white doesn't want a queen trade because black's queen is rather useless, while white's has more mobility. c5 was a move that was considered. I didn't like it after 13. ... Qa5 14. Na4 Rb8 15. b3 Ne5 16. Qd4 d6 17. cxd6 Rb4. Nice if you're black, but not enticing for white imo. I don't think c5 safely leads to any advantage for white. Unless white has better in the above line. 14. Rad1 Ne5. + Show Spoiler + Pretty much forced response that allows defense of both the d7 and the especially the lone but not to be underestimated f4 pawns. I'm risking to get a pin but I don't see many threatning lines from it. I expect white to play either 15. b3, 15. b4 or the unlikely 15. f3 Rad1, an error. Better was Rfd1, to allow occupation of the c-file by the a1 rook. Ne5, a logical move that makes the knight extremely powerful and forces f3. 15. f3 Qb6+ 16. Kh1 d6 17. Na4 Qe3 + Show Spoiler + So I get the unlikely 15. f3 that allows me to release tension from my d pawn in a move that should have been done years ago. I allow the possibility of my queen getting attacked by the knight to see if I can free up some space in the middle. I start thinking of exchanging queens to diverse white's attention and see if I can manouver a bit better. there isn't much space. Hmm, you think 15. f3 was unlikely? What did you think was going to happen instead? 18. c5 Qxd2 19. Rxd2 Rf6 20. Rfd1 Be6 + Show Spoiler + White is agrees with the exchange and starts pushing its c pawn and placing rooks in the open files. I'm faced here with two options, defend the center at all costs or go with another exchange white's b pawn for my d pawn looks fair. Hmm Qxe3 would have probably been better, leaving black with a weak pawn. 21. b3 d5 22. exd5 Bxd5 23. Nc3 e6 24. b4 Rb8 25. a3 g5 + Show Spoiler + white doesn't want to give his b pawn away, and locks in the middle even more. Why does white keep defending so well ?? At this point I start to realize the game's trend is drawish and winning chances for black are slim. White doesn't have much either on the other hand. here's when it hit me: maybe if I push for another exchange in the king side, I can get less pieces in the board and since moves are made after voting, well, maybe the best move may not win ? this is a possibility: yes, my end game is my weakness but I believe I can hold my own in end game against a voting game, especially in the conditions we are. so I start working on an exchange. Actually I think endgames are good for a voting game. We have more analysts, and there's not a very big stylistic component to endgames. So it is highly unlikely that the voting would be polarized between different moves imo. 26. Ba6 h5 + Show Spoiler + Wow even better, the bishop is out of my way. maybe I can pull this one out I am sad that Ba6 went through, I think actually it should have been a tie, but whatever. Rb2 may have been better. 27. Re1 Rf5 28. Rde2 Nxf3 29. gxf3 Bxf3+ 30. Kg1 Bxe2 31. Rxe2 f3 + Show Spoiler + Exactly what I wanted. For the first time in the match, what I planned eventually worked out. Now, the position is delicate. If white doesn't want to push for the win, they can draw with ease. Perhaps the pawn will create pressure ? 32. Rxe6 f2+ 33. Kg2 Rbf8 + Show Spoiler + all forced 34. Bf1 h4 35. Ne4 Rf4 + Show Spoiler + this is not looking good. If white plays Kh3, I think we're going to draw. 36. Kh3 offers draw 36. .... accepts draw offer. + Show Spoiler + gg I feel that the game is far from over at this point. I can't say exactly what lightman had in mind, but I think that white can pick off black's kingside pawns while keeping enough pressure on black so that he cannot really utilize his rooks to harass the black king. I mentioned a few lines in my last few posts, so I won't go into more detail, but I'd like to ask lightman what he had prepared to counter that. It seems to me as if white maintains enough of an advantage to be able to play on without fear of losing the draw. Black is on the defensive here. Overall good game, a bit tense in the beginning, I tried to create pressure but white created solid defense in the early game. Through mid game things became a bit slow, white played a bit passive for my taste, some of my moves were too, I tried to create a bit more pressure but White kept defending well, and in a gasp of try to get things moving I went for an exchange to see if I could get the best of White nerves + inexperience, but white kept solid rock defendinng well. I tried my best to crack's white's defense but you guys kept the guard up, and well I'm not going to blunder to push for a win, so good game ! Because you didn't play 11. ... Bxd4, so the move 12. ... Qxd4 was not a possible move. Anyway, I was playing the game on the idea that you were on the defensive, not us. It seems like you had the opposite idea that you were trying to break our defense. As far as I'm concerned I still think you were the one defending, at least up until maybe around move 22. Then it was probably about even. wow things got real tense between you guys when voting c5 against Qd2, which eventually won digging into the spoilers, I think 15. f3 Qb6+ pretty much killed the game. 15. Qd4 should have won, or even 15. Kh1 15. Qd4 doesnt seem too strong to me. 15. ... Rb8 16. b3 and white really can't get anywhere. There's no effective way to attack the pinned piece, and there seems to be no solid way to attack black. Black has a whole arsenal of options, including a5, d6, Ba6, c5. Really, black can do anything he wants to, as white doesn't have enough of a concentration of force to produce any meaningful threats. I don't see how 15. Kh1 helps white either. A passive move, ok, like Qd4 or f3. But it doesn't serve any other useful purpose other than to vacate the a7-g1 diagonal. If we're not playing f3 it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to do that. I missed 34. ... h4 and follow ups. The sequence tied down the knight down with some defensive duties that I had not expected. based on the position of the king, I didn't see any chance that we would lose and thought that with the bishop and king, we could tied the king side rook and pawns. The white rook on e6 prevented the black king from seeing any action at all. I thought as long as the knight could occupy one of the black rooks a bit, the c6 pawn would fall without a black king to do the bulk of the work preventing queening. After h4, it was clearly a draw and so it was offered. I fail to see the draw, at least in the immediate future. What would have happened if the game had gone on? Anyway, a good game, nice defense (unless we really were on defense? I dont think so) by lightman. Thanks for hosting the game. | ||
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Arhkangel
Argentina769 Posts
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lightman
United States731 Posts
what would you have played ? or if anyone wants to continue the match but now as friendly post match analysis  arkangel, this match and the previous one has shown that TL has good players, playing jfrazz is going to be exciting, like you said you lose him but you gain me, and afterwards, a lot of the other members are worthy challengers too: citizen, myrmidon, incognito, athos,, etc..... especially since we're playing for fun, I think everyone deserves to be aa challenger, soon we might be even playing YOU ! as I read through all your spoilers, I was fascinated of the insight and deepness of your analysis, it makes me feel like I put as much effort as everyone of you did. about playing jfrazz, this is simple, if we get black he'll prolly show us some Nf3 ala Kramnik Reti or Slav, and if get white and play 1.e4 (which I vote), he'll bring up his beloved Caro.... right BUDDY ?? if we get white and play 1. d4 he'll either Slav or Catalan, most likely catalan ala Kramnik... right BUDDY ? hahahaha. if I would have been in white's team I would have played well, for starters I would have played the Dragon itself, not the MB, bbut up to say move 8 8. exf5 instead of Nc3 13. Qd4+ instead of Qd2 14. Rfd1 instead of Rad1 15. b4 instead of f3 18. Qxe3 instead of c5 21. b3 was a tough one.......maybe I would have gone with the pawns exchange instead 26. Ba6.... nah maybe Rd4. | ||
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jfazz
Australia672 Posts
 But the voting isnt going that way, so:As black, against: 1.e4 - a caro-kann system. If you want to avoid really heavy analysis, you could try one of the rarer systems, such as the fantasy. Alternatively, the lines with Bc4 instead of Bd3 (classical) with ideas of sacs on e6 for two pawns and taking away castling, could lead to fun games. 1.d4 Nf6 then you choose. I play Nimzo/QID structures against most white options (2.c4 or colle/london etc). I wouldnt mind playing against a catalan actually, I play it from the white side so I have a good idea from the black side as well, though I admit, its always easier for white! 1.Nf3 Nf6 etc etc 1.c4 c5 or e5; depending on how I am feeling Ill go open a new topic with signups now, ill play the black pieces. | ||
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Ikari
United States176 Posts
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Incognito
United States2071 Posts
I wouldn't mind playing a caro. It might not be so enticing for an aggressive player, but there are still attacking chances in it. If jfazz plays white I'm pretty sure I'd play it safe and play for equality. | ||
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Lhefriel_Medies
United States28 Posts
My personal preference tends towards imbalanced positions, but not ones that are too wild and focused on tactics, which is how I came to 1. Nf3 after getting annoyed with e4 e5 and d4 d5; on d5 I like to play c4 immediately, which creates a lot of interesting complications, but ones that don't involve sacrificing pieces for the attack without the other player going seriously wrong. That's the sort of game that I'm looking for. I'm thinking of other openings, but for the time being I would like to stick with what I'm familiar with. I am in high school and would be playing against other high schoolers, so I don't think that anyone is going to have any particularly deep theory, if that matters; somewhat sound gambits anywhere are fine. Thanks in advance for any help? | ||
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enthusiast
United States90 Posts
I'm pretty bad, if my FICS rating is any indication but I think my tactics are decent. I win most games that go 1. e4 e5 and lose most that go 1.e4 c5. I just get to points where my pieces are developed and I don't know what to do next. So I want a book that will improve my general play (probably mostly the middlegame) more than one that focuses on tactics or a specific opening. I would be open to a book on endgame as long as it is pretty elementary and wide in scope. Same thing goes from openings. I have Chess Fundamentals and My System, but I have not read them. I have them on my computer, and I'm looking for a book that I can buy so that I can study away from the computer. I've read about a third of Chernev's Logical Chess, and it seems a little too basic but it's definitely possible that I've been studying it in a non-optimal way. So a book that is general in scope and pretty decent for noobs? Any thoughts on Chernev's Most Instructive Games, Del Rosario's A First Book of Morphy, various Silman books? More recent move-by-move books? Thanks, dudes. | ||
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